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-   -   wagonbike?? (http://www.bikeforums.net/alt-bike-culture/430968-wagonbike.html)

basscadetz 06-18-08 06:20 AM

wagonbike??
 
ive been thinking about this bike for a few weeks now after seeing this photo:


http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technolo...071119_ssh.jpg

article:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/popup?id=3887405&contentIndex=1&start=false&page=7


so i decided id like something similar. i thought id archive the build here. the first photos...

the donors:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/basscadetz/cartbike/IMG_0618.jpg


chopped:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...e/IMG_0623.jpg

rear end???

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/basscadetz/cartbike/IMG_0627.jpg


rear end concept:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u156/basscadetz/cartbike/awesome.jpg


thanks to two bottles of wine and 4 free hours.

gentry

Floyd 06-18-08 12:28 PM

Looking good...can't wait to see more. I think you are on the right track, from what you have shown so far.

basscadetz 06-18-08 05:32 PM

now that im sober, an explanation of where im going with this is in order.

so i wanted something similar, but a bit more rigid and tough, so i think the best bet is to have a steel frame/chassis underneath, and have the wooden "body" bolt on to that. paint the chassis black and hopefully it will disappear.

as for the front end im gonna use the forks/cups/bearings, but weld my own frame/headsets for it. i scored some pipe at work that the bearing cups fit into nicely. as for steering im not sure whether to use the tie rod system as shown, or steal this idea from Rat Patrol Oz:

click here

thoughts? ideas? concerns?

StephenH 06-18-08 05:39 PM

I don't know how much difference it makes in actual operation, but you don't necessarily want the front wheels to turn exactly the same. Ideally, the centerlines of each front wheel and the rear axle would all pass through the same point, which means the inward wheel will be turned more than the outward. With a tie-rod system, you can approximate this to an extent.

Be prepared for this thing to be very very tippy.

It is a cool idea, good luck with it.

(I've wondered how hard it would be to pedalize an old golf cart- I've seen some places that look like they junk them out, so I expect you could get one without a good motor or batteries for close to scrap value. Of course, then you might have the not-legal-on-the-road problem).

basscadetz 06-18-08 05:48 PM

hmm, tippyness is a worry of course.

maybe the smaller wheels will help lower the center of gravity? i also thought about making it a bit wider as well? i dont want to be EXACT but i think part of its charm is its tippyness and lankyness.

i guess the steering is a toss up between form and function. i like how the sprokets/chain looks, but the tie rods would be a bit more practical.

biggest thing is i dont want to over engineer it. KISS and all that.

also i dont want to fork out much if any cash for this (neither does the girl! ha!). all trash scores hopefully.

Limp Jimmy 06-18-08 06:35 PM

The chainring steering idea is bomber I also used it on the amphibious couch trike (http://www.rat-patrol.org/RPOz/FArt/mitzie.html). I guess Ackermann steering geometry could probably be applied to that system if the chainrings were welded on slightly off-centre, but I haven't messed with that concept as yet. The only potential prob with this system is that the chainrings are easy enough to damage, but that hasn't been an issue for us yet.

Rack and pinion has the disadvantage of using non-bike parts, having inherent play in the steering, a limited turning circle and general gheyness.

Yeah, tippyness is an issue. Master Gravity Esquire is a tad narrow for it's height and can roll at high speeds with a top-heavy load, as seen on our Melbourne jaunt. Tha couch bike is as stable as anything on water... but on land, she's a bit tippy and has great potential for snapping human spines. The main prob with the couch bike is it's wheels are too big and therefore easy to pancake, so go the 22".

Limp Jimmy 06-18-08 06:35 PM

BTW, a spectacular drunken MGE crash is documented here

basscadetz 06-18-08 07:09 PM

with the help of highly sophisticated CAD software, i came up with my thoughts on the steering.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...ingconcept.jpg

Limp Jimmy 06-18-08 07:30 PM

Woah, you could even rival RPOz's Nancy Porker with those CAD skills!

Good plan Gentry, I'm thinkin that REINS would really finish this one nicely!! Reins are rad! REINS!!!!

basscadetz 06-18-08 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limp Jimmy (Post 6904737)
The chainring steering idea is bomber...

Rack and pinion has the disadvantage of using non-bike parts, having inherent play in the steering, a limited turning circle and general gheyness.

Yeah, tippyness is an issue....

i think the chain steering is brilliant. "good on ya" as they say in your country.

the use on non bike parts is something i think i want to steer clear of. general gheyness indeed.

the more i think about it, being tippy isnt that big of a concern. i know the whole idea isnt practical, and quite silly, but thats what mutant bikes are about. absurdity.

basscadetz 06-18-08 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limp Jimmy (Post 6905013)
Woah, you could even rival RPOz's Nancy Porker with those CAD skills!

Good plan Gentry, I'm thinkin that REINS would really finish this one nicely!! Reins are rad! REINS!!!!

REINS! oh man. maybe some of those lawn reindeer you see around christmas attached to the front? floating?

REINS! BRILLIANT!

dragonwlkr 06-18-08 09:06 PM

For Cad software you might want to try this one it is for making sailboats but I did this with it, and a bonus is that you can get dxf lines of the flattened shapes that can be printed and cut out.

http://i13.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/eb/62/5d92_1.JPG

I just bought this and have been thinking of your idea. I have intended to put a flat slab on top the frame, and beach chair, but I like the idea of a woodie wagon. Actual wood would be way too heavy, but I was thinking half inch foam PVC and gluing a nice wood veneer on it so that it would look like actual wood but would not be anyway near as heavy as it would look. I have been concerned about the strength of this but some vertical sides would go a long way to add strength.

By lowering the wagon so it was between the wheels such as this one, the whole top heavy issue should go away

Limp Jimmy 06-18-08 09:55 PM

Yeah, lower the centre of gravity for sure.

Hey dragonwlkr, your new four-wheeler would look great with REINS

basscadetz 06-18-08 10:01 PM

REINS!!! WE NEED REIIINSSS

screw the low center of gravity. falling is fun.

basscadetz 06-18-08 10:04 PM

dragonwalker: you should still do the beach chair thing. paint the base piece of wood like a beach towel. get an umbrella, or maybe a palm tree. ice chest/esky full of beer. zinc oxide on your nose. you'll be set. the ultimate "beach cruiser"

maybe some reins?

dragonwlkr 06-19-08 04:13 AM

I was already riding a catrike in the rain with a big umbrella. I have somewhere around here an aluminum chair designed low for sitting on the beach (more backrest than chair) that was part of my original thinking, but using the foam PVC to provide both looks and structure for a western wagon look is most interesting.

dragonwlkr 06-19-08 07:09 AM

Quote:

Hey dragonwlkr, your new four-wheeler would look great with REINS
My girlfriend keeps wanting me to drive her places, perhaps that would be an idea after all.

Limp Jimmy 06-19-08 08:40 AM

Oh yeah, that makes me thing of making that multi-purpose bar trailer — Tongue of Fire crew (Adelaide) had one, complete with a palm tree. Maybe one with reins. I'm totally loaded about the reins idea on the cart Gentry, it's the perfect application!

But hey, gears might be the go around Wyong way.. and brakes man. Don't wanna take too much bark off Rachel on the way to the pub.

Quadranut 06-19-08 09:09 AM

hey dragonwlkr could you send me some close ups of the front drive train ? I am thinking along these lines myself and have in the works a 4 wheel build of my own in the planning stages. Thanks.

Red

Limp Jimmy 06-19-08 10:05 AM

Yeah, I also wondered about that, can you chuck em up?

dragonwlkr 06-19-08 10:30 AM

I have not actually received more than UPS tracking data as yet so I am a bit still wondering about the details, but for the price I figured it was worth it for parts. The seller has said it is not a finished project.
The Ebay link is here and you can know as much as I do about it at the moment.

http://i4.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/eb/62/8eeb_1.JPGhttp://i22.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/eb/62/b50d_1.JPG

Limp Jimmy 06-19-08 06:17 PM

Fak, that looks like a beast! Nice one.

dragonwlkr 06-21-08 09:47 AM

Ultimate beach cruiser
 
Quote:

dragonwalker: you should still do the beach chair thing. paint the base piece of wood like a beach towel. get an umbrella, or maybe a palm tree. ice chest/esky full of beer. zinc oxide on your nose. you'll be set. the ultimate "beach cruiser"
Already done that with an umbrella stand on the catrike, and the black ice chest in back
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...gonrider-1.jpg

Sianelle 06-21-08 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basscadetz (Post 6900074)

Oh my word that's amazing :thumb::):love:

What a brilliant concept and it's interesting that original builder used so many bicycle parts to start with.
I'd want to put this in front of it......
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...seOnWheels.jpg

dragonwlkr 07-05-08 10:22 PM

Making the first step
 
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...r/IM001168.jpg
I found a great chair, and some 5/8' foam pvc for the deck. A second piece cut into 6" strips will complete the box. The chair looks like painted wood but weighs almost nothing and is quite strong.

A tougher problem will be how to attach brakes and steering. The ample armrests make a good platform and the shift will fit easily as well, But I cant find a way to secure the brake attachment to the wheels, beyond doing as was done before with something that rubs the tires.

If anyone knows a good way to do the brakes, please let me know


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