Commuting - Disappointed with local bike club...

I was out riding around town yesterday and stopped at a local sandwich shop for lunch. After my meal, I sat and read for a while before returning to the road. As I got ready to leave, I notice several cyclists unloading their bikes from various vehicles. Then I remembered that the local bike club met there for weekly rides.

Having already been riding for some time that day, I wasn't ready to jump in the group (in fear of slowing everyone down; not to mention I wasn't a member). Also I noticed that I would have stuck out like a sore thumb, which I'm used to. They all had nice road bikes, lycra shorts, fancy jerseys, and the other nine yards I know little about. I was on my hybrid bike with a backpack tied to the rack and wearing my usual cut-off pants and a long sleeve permanent press shirt (to keep some of the sun off my arms). At least I was wearing my helmet this time. Still, I suppose I was looking like what you might imagine a "Hickabod" would look like (a bit unruly but unthreatening).

So I get my bike unlocked and head in their direction. They were giving me the all too familiar look of "What are you doing here?". I rode by several of them with my usual small wave and head-nod. Not one welcoming word. Finally I came across an older lady with a recumbent. Being a bit put off by the macho men in the group, I stopped and talked with her. I was hoping that they might have been headed back towards the downtown area; I would have followed along until we got near the library as I needed to drop off the book I had been reading during lunch. She didn't really know where they were going. She was nice enough and eventually invited me to ride along. I told her that I had already been out for a hour or two and didn't want to slow anyone down and that I may try again next week.

My first turn off was the fact that so many of them hauled their bikes in? Why not just ride your bike there and then ride? Maybe they lived too far away; it's hard to find out these things once you've been snubbed.

And of course the main turn off was their attitudes. I realize that I live in a bass-akwards part of the country, but do most road-cyclist have this kind of chip on their shoulder? (I call them road-cyclist because they didn't seem to be commuters.) Why don't I see more of these people riding their bikes in town during the week? I'm out on my bike all hours of the day and night. You'd think I'd run into them more often. I guess it was just a let-down. I was expecting a warm welcome; what a fool I used to be.

I suppose I could have just told them "Hey I'm poor and I can't afford a nice bike like yours. Mind if I try to keep up?" Then again I have a low tolerance for elitist egos. So instead, I take off down the road feeling like David Banner with the Hulk's closing credit music playing in my head. Kind of sad while trying to remain hopeful.

Then I remembered that one of the most enjoyable aspects of my cycling was the solitude. So be it...

And of course the main turn off was their attitudes. I realize that I live in a bass-akwards part of the country, but do most road-cyclist have this kind of chip on their shoulder? (I call them road-cyclist because they didn't seem to be commuters.) Why don't I see more of these people riding their bikes in town during the week? I'm out on my bike all hours of the day and night. You'd think I'd run into them more often. I guess it was just a let-down. I was expecting a warm welcome; what a fool I used to be.

Yes . . . my experience exactly. You have to realize that to these type of folks, the bicycle is a recreational toy. They might as well be riding a motorcycle, jet-ski, snowmobile, etc. Very concerned about appearance, having the right clothes, etc. I despise them too.

These clubs can be very klan-like in the worst sense of the word. The oldest club in the St Louis region denied membership to a black cyclist as recently as the 1970's. Becoming a member required sponsorship and some sort of vote. The second oldest club owes its beginning as a protest to the racist policy. Very ugly. Today, though not overtly racist, the same sort of cloistered elitist mentality prevails. Sad.

So you saw a group of cyclists that you know belong to club that you don't belong to (I inferred this, am I correct?). You find someone that you feel comfortable talking to, and she invites you along for the ride. I'm failing to see much evidence of these guys being elitists besides your perception that they were giving you looks.

I think if you went up and explained "Yeah, I look a little rowdy, but do you mind if I try to keep up?" I'd also explain that if they drop you, they shouldn't have to worry about you. I don't do club rides, but I'd imagine that a lot of hesitance would come from there. If someone is riding with you, I'd think that you'd be obliged to make sure they didn't fall behind, stop, get lost, etc.

Most of the club rides I do are in locations that people drive to. Very few people cycle to the starting point. If I saw you coming with your backpack strapped to your rack I would assume you were going somewhere else (like home or work). I'd smile and wave or nod, but it wouldn't occur to me to ask if you wanted to join the ride unless you stopped and expressed interest.

If they have an older woman on a recumbent, I'm sure it's not a fast group and you'll be able to keep up even with a hybrid. A lot of times, people are shy in general so you really can't tell if they just felt sorry for your condition. I doubt they hated you but anything is possible in this world.

Try to find another group of slower riders and you'll see lots of hybrids.

if the bike club requires membership to join (as in paying money), i wouldn't welcome a freeloader either.

if the bike club requires membership to join (as in paying money), i wouldn't welcome a freeloader either.
How do I know I want to join your club if I'm not able to 'test the waters' with a ride with you?

Sorry you were made to feel uncomfortable. Is it possible they didn't want to be seen chasing you?

if the bike club requires membership to join (as in paying money), i wouldn't welcome a freeloader either.

How do you get new members if you don't allow a newcomer to ride along a few times to see if he fits in? It costs nothing to invite a prospective member to participate.

That being said, I wouldn't expect a club to ask everyone who happens to ride by to join in either. Notice though that the one person from the club he talked with did invite him to ride.

How do I know I want to join your club if I'm not able to 'test the waters' with a ride with you?

well, i don't want to speak for what anyone should do: but i would find out something about the club first. how far\fast they ride, what skills are needed, who the ride leaders are, etc. see if they are open to having someone 'test the waters'. I wouldn't just show up out of the blue and expect to join in. but that's just me.

Don't be to discouraged by your first meeting, which by the way was by total accident. They were not expecting you, nor were you expecting them. It is always a good train of thought to attend a club meeting prior to joining a club ride. Many clubs have several weekly rides. Some geared for the elite roadies, and some for the not so elite. At a meeting you can gauge which rides you would be willing to ride on.
So next time you run into them, don't be afraid to ask about the club itself. See if they have a website you can look at. Many clubs have a ride calander on their site. Above all, attend a meeting, you just might find they are just as nice as you after all.

Just a note: I e-mailed my local club to let them know I was interested. They responded by inviting me to join them for a couple rides, and or attend a meeting to see if I wanted to join them. I went to the meeting, and decided to join right away.

If you're part of a group that promotes cycling, wouldn't you at least think they'd say "Hello" to someone on a bike? I obviously wasnt' part of the group and I wasn't expecting a twenty minutes sales pitch.

I guess I thought cycling was going to be kind of an underdog activity, similar to our local music scene. We go out of our way to help each other and often strangers just passing through. It's one of the more encouraging aspects of the D.I.Y. music scene. I suppose cycling isn't exactly a parallel. Then again, it doesn't always work in the music scene either.

Besides whatever happened to our "Southern Hospitality"? I've received more friendly gestures while riding through "bad" parts of town than through a group of people I thought I'd have something in common with. It was just discouraging, that's all.

When I first started riding in 1999/2000 I got the same "look" from most of the elite cyclists riding their expensive bikes. I was riding my 1999 Raleigh R600. I'd say "hello" or wave and get no response.
I got over it and eventually learned that many cyclists are like this. They don't commute, they drive their bikes to the start of a ride, they feel they must dress for the part, and if you or your bike don't fit in, then you're not one of them. Don't feel bad. It's just the way some people are. :(

I eventually was accepted by most of them when I got strong enough to pass or keep up with them on my commuter when they were doing their after work rides. Now I got a nod or wave from all of them.

It's some of the bike commuters that don't nod or wave to me that have me worried. :o

Interesting... There is a group at my job that rides during lunch on Wednesdays. I've never ridden with them, although they know I commute year-round. I wonder if they think I'm snubbing them?

I am the only member of my bike club who commutes on a regular basis. Most of them are racers who ride VERY expensive bikes. I only joined the club a few months ago but have been pleased to discover that they are pretty nice people who seem to prefer my being around for a ride. Because I am a beginner group rider, they have spend lots of time explaining things to me and teaching me technique.

Club members tend to be nervous about unfamiliar people on the wheels of their $3,000 + bikes but communication and showing some skill/experience can go a long way toward an invite to ride along. For that matter, so does simply asking to ride along. I am sorry you were disappointed and hope that you will take some time to investigate clubs more seriously as I have found them to be a lot of fun. Many clubs have lots of different types of riders in them and the possibility of finding something to meet your interests is high.

I see a lot of mocking of people in team kits across the forums and I don't really see why. I have lots of different cycling clothes, but I love wearing my team kit. After all those people have taught me, I am proud to be associated with them. Maybe my club is a little unique, but I find the people nice and the riding fun. My advice is to give the club a realistic try.

I don't understand how you would get offended by that OP. Of course they aren't going to be like hey want to join in on our ride.

You didn't make it known that you were interested in participating in said ride nor did you seek out their leader to see what's up. You just kind of assumed they'd be they people soliciting random people to join in on their group ride.

The club I ride with welcomes non-members, you do pay a fee of course to go on the ride. But other than that if you can ride safely and your bike is in good condition you're welcome to come along.

Here's a thought...

How welcome do you think African-Americans and Hispanics feel when they see mostly Caucasian Roadies?

I participated in a citizens class race some time ago. It was a mixture of beginner club riders, triathletes, and agh . . . commuters. The back stretch of the 33 mi course was 10 miles straight into a 20mph constant wind. The guy who pulled the entire pack was and older dude dressed in an 80's style black Bell helmet, out of date wool clothing (cold weather Feb race), toe straps, an 80's anachronism, poster boy for a geeked out commuter. However, he totally kicked a**!!! Unfortunately, he pulled so hard in the middle of the race, he did not win, but was probably the strongest guy out there. You should have heard the club racers talk! Oh boy, I will never forget that guy. He was my hero that day.

I
...Why not just ride your bike there and then ride? Maybe they lived too far away; it's hard to find out these things once you've been snubbed.

And of course the main turn off was their attitudes. I realize that I live in a bass-akwards part of the country, but do most road-cyclist have this kind of chip on their shoulder? (I call them road-cyclist because they didn't seem to be commuters.) ...I guess it was just a let-down. I was expecting a warm welcome; what a fool I used to be.

I suppose I could have just told them "Hey I'm poor and I can't afford a nice bike like yours. Mind if I try to keep up?" Then again I have a low tolerance for elitist egos. ...

Then I remembered that one of the most enjoyable aspects of my cycling was the solitude. So be it...

As I read your post I see someone approaching a situation making some generalizations and judgements that may or may not be true. These are people who in a club, plan their riding, may or may not have the time to ride their bikes everywhere, ride for recreation, like to ride nice bikes, etc.... Just because they didn't immediately speak to you does not mean they were snubbing you. While accusing them of judging you, you have done the same.

I don't have new equipment and usually ride to group rides. If I do drive my bike to the ride, it's in a 18 year old rustbucket. People didn't speak to me right away, but after I showed up a few times and proved I could ride, I made some good friends. It could have been real easy for me to make the same type of assumptions the first few times I rode with the club I ride with -- even for the first year.

Check out the club's website. These guys are nice to deal with --

http://www.freewheelers.info/

I am from Chicagoland and am riding their "Assault On Mt Mitchell" on May 20. Why not show up at the ride and find out how many people talk to you. You'll be surprised!

I have always rode alone. In all the rides I have done, only twice was I asked about joining in the group. The first group bit the sh**. They had someone bonking. He wasn't looking good, they got into an arguement on who was going to stay back with him. They flipped out, when I said I would. I pulled that guy to the finish. They asked for my number, joined them for a post ride meal. Never heard from them again. Funny part there are two that go to my LBS. The guys at the bike shop even notice their attitude toward me when I show up.

The second time a group showed interest in my joining.... was actually just one of the chicks in the group wanted to go out with me.

I'll just stick to riding solo. The CUTTERS are my role models.

Here's a thought...

How welcome do you think African-Americans and Hispanics feel when they see mostly Caucasian Roadies?

I suppose I could see the point here kf5nd but are you suggesting that bike clubs actively seek non-white members in a conscious quest for diversity? It is sad that racism has been a factor in some clubs in the past but do we really want to perpetuate this problem by making bicycle clubs focus on diversity when they are really about riding?

It is my opinion that if we are ever going to be able to look past the color or one's skin, we must start by eliminating the requirements that we consider the color of one's skin.

As a caucasian, I have enjoyed relationships with people of a wide variety of races, but I have no interest in having my social and recreational organizations feel compelled to seek diversity in their members. I personally believe that my noncaucasian friends would be offended if I sought their friendship simply to make sure that I had an ethnically diverse pool of friends. Why would we want to do the same in cycling? Let us want to be with each other because of who we are; not because of our respective ethnicities.

I'd have to agree here. They may well have assumed you were out running errands and had no intention of riding with them. It's also good to remember that high-end road bikes are fragile, and that people who plan to ride hard can easonably expect to be very tired at the end. As a former runner, I can assure you that very few runners will jog to the start of a 10K and jog home from there! I'd contact them and give them another chance.

Paul

I'm a year-round utilitarian cyclist, but I enjoy joining a club ride every once in a while for the fun of it. I ride my dorky commuter bike with rack and lights, I don't wear team kit, and I have MTB shoes instead of high dollar road shoes. Nobody gives me any grief about any of it.

Initial meetings in any kind of situation can be awkward, even when there are common interests. It helps that the rides are organized online and I've been introduced at least through email.

In the spring I tend to lead a lot, but it's not long before the other riders begin to outride me. As far as I'm concerned, it's all good.

Also, in my area (the road cycling mecca of Boulder, Colorado) it's not at all unusual for roadies to bike commute. I try to strike up a conversation with any cyclist who I pass or who passes me, whether he or she is in a skin suit on a carbon time trial bike or it's Carlos on his Walgoose with plastic shopping bags hanging from his bars. For faster riders we usually are at least able to exchange commute destination and distance. I don't think I've ever been "snubbed."

RFM

...One other thought. I really beleive that most men bond by activity, not by chatting. My wife is always giving me a hard time because I have difficulty feeling close to the TV watching, non-cycling husbands of her friends. Maybe I am shallow, maybe I am just single minded, but I prefer to ride, not chat in an attempt to bond. I find it much more effective. (present activities excluded of course :D )

Here's a thought...

How welcome do you think African-Americans and Hispanics feel when they see mostly Caucasian Roadies?
Not to start an argument, but that's a rather racist comment. To assume that white cyclists would not welcome a ride with someone of another ethnicity simply because they're white.

To answer your question, though, I don't know how welcome they feel when they see a group of riders of another race. I suppose it would depend on the actions of that group. If they think they're not welcome because they're black or brown or yellow or red or whatever color their skin may be, it seems to me it's a self-esteem issue. Give the white riders a chance, maybe they'll welcome them with open arms. To assume the group will not be friendly to them or welcome them in their midst is an example of prejudice.

Our respective ethnicities do indeed partly define who we are; only majority-culture people have the luxury of thinking that there is such a thing as being who you are without worrying about skin color. This is termed "white privilege". I'm not accusing anyone of malice; I'm just saying this is a legacy environmental factor that exists in the culture.

I think bike clubs and many, many other organizations (churches, political parties, volunteer organizations) have an imperative to actively seek out "minorities" (ironic, because Caucasians will be a minority in the US someday), because the old guard backbone of these organizations, the baby boomers, are retiring from the organizations... and no one is behind them to fill in.

I'm a ham radio operator, and an Episcopalian, and both of these organizations for example have problems attracting the new demographic, and are consequently sort of dying out...



Let us want to be with each other because of who we are; not because of our respective ethnicities.

Not accusing anyone of racism. But, what I am saying is, it's extra intimidating for people of color to try to break into an all-white social organization. Most will say... "nah... I don't need the hassle... I've got better things to do with my time".

And organizations suffer... because they don't get new talent and energy.



Not to start an argument, but that's a rather racist comment. To assume that white cyclists would not welcome a ride with someone of another ethnicity simply because they're white.

This is termed "white privilege". I'm not accusing anyone of malice; I'm just saying this is a legacy environmental factor that exists in the culture.



I am well aware of the idea of "white privlege" and would strongly recommend "unpacking the invisible knapsack" by Peggy McIntosh for anyone interested in the more subtle privledges of being a member of the majority race. That short article read in 1998 has had a lasting impact on my thinking about racial issues. Your comment and worries about being snubbed due to race versus any other reason are addressed in McIntosh's work.

I am concerned, however, about the lack of efficacy and unintended effects of any type of selection system based on race. I really believe it perpetuates the problem. You can't go to any campus without hearing white males complain (and justifiably so) about their diminished chances at securing scholarships/aid/jobs/clerkships, etc based soley on their demographic profiles. Whether or not this is true is irrelevant compared to the fact that such resentment does little to truly reduce the problem of racial malice. Moreover, it perpetuates that concern that one is selected based on the color of his/her skin or gender. As McIntosh points out, even if a black female has earned every bit of her new position, she still has to worry about convincing others that such is the case.

I am just not convinced that forcing people to pretend they are not prejudice is effective.

I don't care how you dress, what you ride, of what is your origin . . . but you're a fellow cyclist. 'Nuf said!

Hickabod--I'm the same type of cyclist as you are. I can't keep up with elite roadies, and I probably wouldn't enjoy trying. I do tell myself that in the "real" world, I can be counted on to ride to the starting line and make it to the finish line--and then ride my bike to the store, the movies, and back home again. It may take me longer but I go farther! Another difference is that I ride a bike to make my life simpler, while recreational riders make their lives more complex with their weekend riding.

But to each his own. I try not to look down on the elites. They are inspiring cyclists in their own ways, and many have acheived awesome cycling accomplishments. Also, the technology that they support with their dollars will eventually trickle down to us. (Today's beater bike is probably lighter and faster than the best bikes available 40 years ago.)

If you are really interested in social riding, I would encourage you to give that club another chance. After all, the one person you actually approached was pretty welcoming. If you still don't fit in, maybe you will find a few like-minded cyclists in your area to ride with. The internet might be a good tool here. Or maybe you could convince some of your musician buddies to dig out their own bikes and join you for a ride.

Not accusing anyone of racism. But, what I am saying is, it's extra intimidating for people of color to try to break into an all-white social organization. Most will say... "nah... I don't need the hassle... I've got better things to do with my time".

And organizations suffer... because they don't get new talent and energy.

This may be true, and is probably the same for anyone who is outwardly different than the prevailing appearance of a group. Whether the difference is sex, race, clothing, bike type, etc., probably make little difference. However, some of these, like sex or race are fixed and unchangeable. We are who we are and I would hope that most of us are more interested in the color of the next guys bike than the color of his skin.

As far as not having the 'roadie' look goes, joining any new group involves taking some social risk. You don't know if you will fit in until you try. If cycling with a club doesn't work out, then there's no harm done. If it does, you may discover a new facet of yourself. You may also find a receptive group to introduce to your favorite forms of cycling.

From the gist of the original post, I'm wondering if the animosity you state toward the riders wasn't showing in body language. If your appearance was as stated, maybe they were wondering if all of their "stuff" would still be there when they got back.
Don't be deceived that there was only one pace of ride from that spot. It could be that the woman on the 'bent was the only rider to show up for two paced ride, and they were checking you out in case she went out on the route by herself with you. Sometimes my club has two, or even three rides that start from the same spot.

You know, I've read over and over how snooty roadies are on these forums, and I've never once really seen it. I've been known to hop on a thirty year old bike and do fifty miles, and the roadies I meet regularly grace me with a wave, as do most of the commuters I meet. The fixie kids like the old rides so they treat me fine. Heck, they're on a bike, they're probably having fun, it just may be subtly different than the brand of fun I'm having. I've had roadies ask if I need help a couple times when I was fixing flats. Didn't need it, appreciated the gesture, though. Really don't get a bad sense from any biker I meet, although enough people are jerks and enough people ride so that I think the two categories might occasionally overlap.

I participate in both worlds...a commuter during the week and a roadie on the weekends. I have found that there are definitely two types of cyclists. First, there are Fitness/Competition cyclists and then there are the Commuter types. All of the people I ride with are great and never look down on other cyclists.

With that said, I have seen cyclists from one group look with suspicion upon those from the other group. I think it is more from curiosity than anything else. Each group has their strengths and weaknesses. The fitness cyclists are generally better at riding long distances (over 30 miles) whereas the traffic skills of the commuters leave the fitness cyclists in awe.

When it comes down to it, we're all just happy to be doing what we love. I enjoy participating in both aspects. If you felt slighted, then that's a shame and I hope that you can come to some understanding with them.

P.S. There's a lot of people knocking the "cycling clothing" that roadies wear. When I'm commuting, I pretty much wear everyday clothing, but when I'm on the road putting in a lot of miles, that spandex is soooooo much more comfortable.

I am well aware of the idea of "white privlege" and would strongly recommend "unpacking the invisible knapsack" by Peggy McIntosh for anyone interested in the more subtle privledges of being a member of the majority race. That short article read in 1998 has had a lasting impact on my thinking about racial issues. Your comment and worries about being snubbed due to race versus any other reason are addressed in McIntosh's work.

Found it with a google search if anyone's interested. I'm reading it now...

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

I think we have to keep certain thing in perspective. I don't see how does race get into this argument. What privilage would one get by joing a cycling club????? You don't get pay riding your bike. Most Americans looking you funny when you have your cycling gear on. A lot of motorists have little respect for cyclists. I am a Chinese American. For me joing my local racing team means work. You work your ass off in a race so that one of your team members or yourself can place well. You train like a dog so that you can compete well and hopefully do some good for the team when needed. Not in a single moment I don't think about racing and training and tactics. The day I don't ride to work (recovery day), I think about my bike or my next race or my next training day.

For the original poster, just to warn you that some of the club rides may be a bit too hard for you or riding in an unfamiliar route. Result? You will get lost if you do get dropped. Yesterday I was out doing our weekly training ride with five guys. We were all cat3/4. There was another rider riding along with us the first hour. We went through some sh-tty road and he had a flat. We didn't wait for him for the obvious reason. Of course, what if he didn't know how to get back where we came from???

Now, just make your head to hurt a bit more, think about living in Europe with that white privilage paradigm. :D Most white Americans don't know that they don't really own the world. :)


Found it with a google search if anyone's interested. I'm reading it now...

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

My first turn off was the fact that so many of them hauled their bikes in? Why not just ride your bike there and then ride? Maybe they lived too far away; it's hard to find out these things once you've been snubbed.

And of course the main turn off was their attitudes. I realize that I live in a bass-akwards part of the country, but do most road-cyclist have this kind of chip on their shoulder? (I call them road-cyclist because they didn't seem to be commuters.) Why don't I see more of these people riding their bikes in town during the week? I'm out on my bike all hours of the day and night. You'd think I'd run into them more often. I guess it was just a let-down. I was expecting a warm welcome; what a fool I used to be.

I suppose I could have just told them "Hey I'm poor and I can't afford a nice bike like yours. Mind if I try to keep up?" Then again I have a low tolerance for elitist egos. So instead, I take off down the road feeling like David Banner with the Hulk's closing credit music playing in my head. Kind of sad while trying to remain hopeful.

Then I remembered that one of the most enjoyable aspects of my cycling was the solitude. So be it...

As a roadie, mountain bike racer, *and* a commuter I can empathize. I ride with similar groups of riders, and most of them probably wouldn't give the average joe-shmo commuter the time of day. I think a large majority of recreational/sporting cyclists still do not see cycling as a viable means of transportation. It's a sport or hobby. If they're on the bike it's 'cause they're training or racing. "Ride to the post office, or store? That's what I've got a car for." They may go put in 100 miles of riding on a Saturday ride, but it would never occur to them to ride two miles to the store to pick up a gallon of milk, or if it did it would be deemed "too much trouble". They're not all a bunch of *******s, it's just that transportational cycling is a completely foreign mindset, even to a lot of *cyclists*, so even though you were on a bike, you were still an outsider as someone who rides for transportation is seen as an oddball by most.

Also keep in mind that riding in closely spaced pack of many riders is a whole different ball game from going out and hammering a ride on your own. When riding in a pack, as is done on group training-rides, your safety is affected by how those around you handle their bikes. Because of this, the average roadie is gonna see a guy in cut-offs and a t-shirt on a hybrid as a hazard to be avoided as opposed to someone to be welcomed into the group.

Be that as it may, there's still no excuse for not at least acknowledging a friendly wave.

-Trevor

Maybe they are professionals or work less than 40 hours a week. There is no way you can get enough miles in the week if you don't commute. If I don't commute and relying on my off days to get the miles, I would be lucky if I can get 110 miles under my legs. To have the race fitness needed, I have to ride 4 to 5 times a week.


As a roadie, mountain bike racer, *and* a commuter I can empathize. I ride with similar groups of riders, and most of them probably wouldn't give the average joe-shmo commuter the time of day. I think a large majority of recreational/sporting cyclists still do not see cycling as a viable means of transportation. It's a sport or hobby. If they're on the bike it's 'cause they're training or racing. "Ride to the post office, or store? That's what I've got a car for." They may go put in 100 miles of riding on a Saturday ride, but it would never occur to them to ride two miles to the store to pick up a gallon of milk, or if it did it would be deemed "too much trouble". They're not all a bunch of *******s, it's just that transportational cycling is a completely foreign mindset, even to a lot of *cyclists*, so even though you were on a bike, you were still an outsider as someone who rides for transportation is seen as an oddball by most.

Also keep in mind that riding in closely spaced pack of many riders is a whole different ball game from going out and hammering a ride on your own. When riding in a pack, as is done on group training-rides, your safety is affected by how those around you handle their bikes. Because of this, the average roadie is gonna see a guy in cut-offs and a t-shirt on a hybrid as a hazard to be avoided as opposed to someone to be welcomed into the group.

Be that as it may, there's still no excuse for not at least acknowledging a friendly wave.

-Trevor

Fellow commuters are where it's at man. Commuters live in the world with 7 days in a week. With 7 days (instead of just 2), there's always time to nod to a fellow cyclist.

I think we have to keep certain thing in perspective. I don't see how does race get into this argument.

I think it was originally used as an example of one group looking at first on another group as "outsiders", but was misunderstood. If a person uses an extremely blatant example, it's sometimes easier to grasp the idea than a "read between the lines" example.

as a non roadie i definitely sympathize. i use my bike as my only source of transportation. being "outside" that scene i get really annoyed at the roadies. they're arrogant and self righteous and all white. i know i'm generalizing but thats how the majority come off. they try to give advice at intersections thinking you want to ride like them. and they drive to the start points of rides. i dont see cycling as just a sport or a hobby and i'm a little political about it too. i'm glad to live in a city where i can hang out with other non roadie bikers.

Yes, that was the manner in which I intended it.

How people split up into groups, and make assumptions about each other, and think the other group person has to change (or worse, deny that the other person belongs to a valid group at all, which is really an emotional act of violence).

Like, "Gay people aren't a valid group, it's just a personal choice"





I think it was originally used as an example of one group looking at first on another group as "outsiders", but was misunderstood. If a person uses an extremely blatant example, it's sometimes easier to grasp the idea than a "read between the lines" example.

Here is my 2 bits.. Whenever I am out riding, and I see a cyclist riding a road bike, and I nod, I get nothing in return, but it seems that the families that I pass and the riders of the riders of the less expensive bikes are the friendlier riders they nod or say hi almost all the time. So in my observation, the more expensive the bike, the snobbier the rider. JMO of course. maybe they think they are better than anyone else.

Here is my 2 bits.. Whenever I am out riding, and I see a cyclist riding a road bike, and I nod, I get nothing in return, but it seems that the families that I pass and the riders of the riders of the less expensive bikes are the friendlier riders they nod or say hi almost all the time. So in my observation, the more expensive the bike, the snobbier the rider. JMO of course. maybe they think they are better than anyone else.

If someone truly sees cycling as a form of fitness instead of being part of some subculture, I can understand why they wouldn't even be in the mind frame of anticipating communication with other cyclists when they pass.

IF I ride by the windows of the 24HR fitness gym and wave at the pretty girls on the stairmasters inside, I can't assume they are snobs when they don't wave back. They are working out, not chillin' with a subculture.

As far as driving to a ride is concerned, I think that is almost a rediculous point on which to pass judgement. We have no idea how far they had to drive to the ride, how long the ride is, how pushed they were for time between work and the ride, and their individual training goals. I am suprised people even consider that one for judgement and think those who do so are being as "snobbish" and "closed-minded" as any roadie has ever been to me.

What the hell is wrong with all you insecure whiners?! Did you ever think that some of these snobby roadies have been out hammering for hours on end with some of their buddies riding them into the ground and they can probably barely see straight. What you see as riding along with their nose in the air could be exhaustion. You folks want it both ways, don't judge you because of your cutoffs and beater mountain bikes, but then you go and make assumptions about someone because they invested in a nice road bike and some comfortable clothes. Do you get all pissy when some guy has a t-shirt from his favorite baseball team on? Do you actually think roadies imagine that they are really Lance Armstrong or Tyler Hamilton, or maybe it's not really comfortable to ride 50 miles at 25mph in a pair of cutoffs. And how the F do you know if these guys don't ride all week long? Do you follow them around? Maybe they drive to the ride because they don't want to add another 20 miles to what is already going to be a 70 mile day, or maybe they are tired of riding the same roads they commute on 5 days a week. I don't see anything that you whiners are doing that would help bridge the gap between yourself and a road club.
On my end, I commute and hammer with a club on the weekends, and if I'm not on the verge of puking up a lung I'll wave and nod to every cyclist I see. If I don't get a nod back, who cares. I certainly don't go and whine about it on a computer forum like a little b!$@h. Get out and ride your bikes and stop worrying about everyone else.

What the hell is wrong with all you insecure whiners?! . . .
On my end, I commute and hammer with a club on the weekends, and if I'm not on the verge of puking up a lung I'll wave and nod to every cyclist I see. If I don't get a nod back, who cares. I certainly don't go and whine about it on a computer forum like a little b!$@h. Get out and ride your bikes and stop worrying about everyone else.

My, my, hit a button, did they? You need to go out for some long, slow distance with someone much slower than you and stay with them. Aren't you enjoying yourself? :D

What the hell is wrong with all you insecure whiners?! Did you ever think that some of these snobby roadies have been out hammering for hours on end with some of their buddies riding them into the ground and they can probably barely see straight. What you see as riding along with their nose in the air could be exhaustion. You folks want it both ways, don't judge you because of your cutoffs and beater mountain bikes, but then you go and make assumptions about someone because they invested in a nice road bike and some comfortable clothes. Do you get all pissy when some guy has a t-shirt from his favorite baseball team on? Do you actually think roadies imagine that they are really Lance Armstrong or Tyler Hamilton, or maybe it's not really comfortable to ride 50 miles at 25mph in a pair of cutoffs. And how the F do you know if these guys don't ride all week long? Do you follow them around? Maybe they drive to the ride because they don't want to add another 20 miles to what is already going to be a 70 mile day, or maybe they are tired of riding the same roads they commute on 5 days a week. I don't see anything that you whiners are doing that would help bridge the gap between yourself and a road club.
On my end, I commute and hammer with a club on the weekends, and if I'm not on the verge of puking up a lung I'll wave and nod to every cyclist I see. If I don't get a nod back, who cares. I certainly don't go and whine about it on a computer forum like a little b!$@h. Get out and ride your bikes and stop worrying about everyone else.

.....All true, in my opinion. The obvious frustration makes me laugh. Roadies are not inherently evil people, and a lot of us commute as well as drive to rides. So remember that when you post about snobby roadies to your cut-off wearing friends, you are posting to roadies as well who do not look down upon you and are confused about your view of roadies as a group. No one was born a roadie. We all were outsiders at some time.

Let's all talk trash about people who don't ride like us, don't dress like us, don't think like us, and don't look like us. That's what cycling is all about. :rolleyes: