Sun, April 17, 2005
CYCLISTS FEAR FOR SPORT
By TRACY MCLAUGHLIN, SPECIAL TO THE TORONTO SUN
A MOUNTAIN biker who launched a million-dollar lawsuit after falling off his bike has lit a fire under Collingwood area bike enthusiasts who fear the suit will close their trails. James Leone is suing the Toronto Outing Club and its Kolapore Uplands Wilderness Ski Trails Committee as well as the Town of The Blue Mountains, the Grey-Bruce Trails Network and the province for an accident he had while mountain biking last August.
The 31-year-old personal injury lawyer from Toronto claims he suffered fractured vertebrae and several soft-tissue injuries when his bicycle came to an abrupt stop after hitting a hole in the trail, sending him over the handlebars.
"It's a crying shame," said "die-hard" mountain biker Mark Derrick, who helped organize a meeting of concerned bikers in Collingwood yesterday.
"We have hundreds of miles of amazing trails in this area and most of us realize that if you take on this sport, you take on a challenge and a risk." He said his wife, Lynn, has dislocated her shoulder by falling on the trails twice but never considered a lawsuit.
"This suit does cause a concern that the trails will be threatened," said trail specialist with the International Mountain Bike Association, Laura Woolner. "The case could set a precedent for other cases in Ontario and that could have an enormous impact on non-profit clubs who will have to purchase huge amounts of insurance to keep trails open. Essentially it could shut them down," she said.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
Gee, do they sue if the skiers hurt themselves while going down Bue Mountain or if hikers hurt themselves while walking on the trails?
larue
I doubt this goes very far, shame if it did though. Is there a sign or something that say's use at your own risk?
Raiyn
A MOUNTAIN biker
<snip>
The 31-year-old personal injury lawyer
The guy should be charged with impersonating mountain biker and a human being and then put out of our misery. Damn ambulance chaser
closetbiker
I can't believe this suit will make it very far either (most especially in Canada).
There must be some extraordinary circumstances for it to see trial, but maybe the guy is just going for a scare settlement against Blue Mountain (a successful,and very rich, management ski hill and retail, housing unit and building company that manages many developments, including Whistler BC).
DieselDan
Are Canadian courts as receptive to friviolous suits like US courts?
closetbiker
Are Canadian courts as receptive to friviolous suits like US courts?
Anyone here correct me if I'm wrong, but from my limited experiance and understanding, not really. The loser has to pay court costs so that cuts down on frivolous suits. If there's little chance to win no one tries. If I understand right, in the U.S., if you lose a suit, you don't pay. Where is the incentive not to sue?
That's why I said, I think he's looking for a settlement. He could be bought off without a challenge or expense of going to court. The guy has to know he has some chance to have a decent case to threaten to bring it to court. If he asks too much, they'll take him to court. If he asks for the right amount, it'll be easier just to give him the cash.
Allister
I wish the hole he'd fallen into had been a bit bigger.
Raiyn
I wish the hole he'd fallen into had been a bit bigger.
Bottomless would have been nice.......
andygates
Bottomless? Sweet. Put the lawyers in there too.
ImaGoTourNow
he needs to be beaten.
No way man. I'm not gonna touch him! He may sue my mom for having me.
RIP Dime
Raiyn
Bottomless? Sweet. Put the lawyers in there too.
The nerfherder is a lawyer
bluebottle1
As a member in good standing of the Texas bar, I apologize to the world that assh*les like this exist, and I volunteer to be the first in line to kick him in the nads in a sincere effort to make sure he doesn't reproduce.
In Texas, I am happy to say that this creep would probably get laughed out of court. I don't know the law in Canada, but this would likely have to be based on some kind of a premises liability theory. If that's the case, he would have to be able to show that the defendants actually knew about this hole he's complaining of or that they acted willfully or wantonly in injuring him, which pretty much amounts to the same thing. Somehow, I don't think he'd manage. Hopefully the law is similar in Canada.
closetbiker
I couldn't imagine it would be any different.
I have a brother-in law who lives in Collingwood, so maybe I'll give him a call and see where this stands.
I'll bet nothing happens.
cyclingshane73
The guy should be charged with impersonating mountain biker and a human being and then put out of our misery. Damn ambulance chaser
"Personal Injury Lawyer"...yep caught that one too...
Pretty freakin sad. Maybe I should sue the City of Toronto for the amount of times I went over the bars after hitting tree roots in the Don Valley Trails. I'm curious, do some people get into mountain biking knowing what they are getting into or do they think that all of the trails are lined with gravel and kept nice and level to make it easy and safe?
Daily Commute
Anyone here correct me if I'm wrong, but from my limited experiance and understanding, not really. The loser has to pay court costs so that cuts down on frivolous suits. If there's little chance to win no one tries. If I understand right, in the U.S., if you lose a suit, you don't pay. Where is the incentive not to sue?
That's why I said, I think he's looking for a settlement. He could be bought off without a challenge or expense of going to court. The guy has to know he has some chance to have a decent case to threaten to bring it to court. If he asks too much, they'll take him to court. If he asks for the right amount, it'll be easier just to give him the cash.
Generally, in the US, the loser doesn't have to pay the other side's attorneys fees, but the loser can still get stuck paying the winner's court costs, which can include depositions expenses, filing fees, jury fees, etc. In large cases, these costs can mount into the tens of thousands of dollars.
If the suit is frivolous, the loser might get attorneys fees.
And of course, almost anyone can file a lawsuit for any reason, but filing doesn't mean winning. Resort areas generally have all sorts of legal protections to stop suits just like this one.
konageezer
I'd be willing to bet… let's see, what do I have on me… $34.65 that this weasel didn't even crash his bike. I'd wager that he only saw the hole with its attendant dollar signs, and headed off to file the paperwork.
I wish we had a big old nad-kicking Texas lawyer to sort this lowlife out. Grrr.
konageezer
You know, perhaps I was too hasty with my first post here—I'm just reflecting on previous occasions where I jumped in without being apprised of ALL the facts, so, to be fair:
We haven't heard this lawyer's side of the story. There's a chance that he is NOT a lowlife bag of dirt. He may, in fact, NOT be a revolting parasite, making the world a worse place through wretched, destructive self-interest. He MAY—though this seems unlikely—be a halfway decent human being.
I trust that this sincere posting will serve to keep me from being sued by any reprehensible weasels.
I hasten to point out that I am not suggesting that Mr. Leone is a reprehensible weasel. There is just not enough information at this point to determine exactly what kind of weasel he is.
closetbiker
I don't know the law in Canada, but this would likely have to be based on some kind of a premises liability theory. If that's the case, he would have to be able to show that the defendants actually knew about this hole he's complaining of or that they acted willfully or wantonly in injuring him
If Blue Mountain knew they had a big hole recently show up that that wasn't there previously, and it could injure somebody if not taken care of, and did nothing reasonable to prevent a possible accident because of this hazard, then there might be a case.
It would be good to hear the whole story.
Raiyn
You know, perhaps I was too hasty with my first post here—I'm just reflecting on previous occasions where I jumped in without being apprised of ALL the facts, so, to be fair:
We haven't heard this lawyer's side of the story. There's a chance that he is NOT a lowlife bag of dirt. He may, in fact, NOT be a revolting parasite, making the world a worse place through wretched, destructive self-interest. He MAY—though this seems unlikely—be a halfway decent human being.It's possible. He may be a decent human being. then again maybe I'm a Chinese het Pilot
I trust that this sincere posting will serve to keep me from being sued by any reprehensible weasels. **** 'em
I hasten to point out that I am not suggesting that Mr. Leone is a reprehensible weasel. There is just not enough information at this point to determine exactly what kind of weasel he is.The worst kind. The type that gets good trails shut down
thechrisproject
This reminds me of a case that was recently ruled on it England.
Mr Justice Burnton said it was necessary to discriminate between cases of negligence and those where people knew and accepted the risks they were taking. In this case the law would "protect individual freedom of action, and ... avoid imposing a grey and dull safety regime on everyone".
...
Mary Kane, who chairs the winter swimming club, said: "This was a test case with wide implications for all open-water swimming in England, and represents another successful attack by ordinary citizens on the nanny state and the government-sponsored cult of health and safety."
Ms Kane said the club was proud to have played its part "in re-establishing an important principle of personal freedom in this country, which is taken for granted everywhere else, that responsible adults must be free to decide for themselves whether to pursue recreational activities involving an element of risk."
bluebottle1
If Blue Mountain knew they had a big hole recently show up that that wasn't there previously, and it could injure somebody if not taken care of, and did nothing reasonable to prevent a possible accident because of this hazard, then there might be a case.
It would be good to hear the whole story.
But even then, I think there's an argument that anyone who takes on biking--be it road, offroad, whatever--assumes the risk of some bumps, bruises, and broken bones. Hell, I've had a few, and I haven't sued anyone over them yet and never do intend to. Creeps like this guy give my profession a bad name, and, Lord knows, we don't need any help doing that.
Here is some more discussion about this guy, his wife is part of the lawsuit too, she is suing for lost companionship, stress & lost wages. Another hint that this is a money grab IMO.
Rear Admiral
Greetings Folks,
The Kolapore vs. James V. Leone lawsuit is still ongoing. There have
been new developments since you posted up about it in April 2005.
I've attached some links that go to updated information (and active
threads) on mtbr.com addressing this issue. Some gents have obtained
some of the legal documentation which gives some interesting details.
So if you can, give those a read. The most interesting snippet I've
taken in part from
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2936127#poststop :
----------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all I have the notes filled as Leone v. University of Toronto,
Barrie Court File No. 04-B8059, heard before the Ontario Superior Court
of Justice on August 3 and September 6, 2006, with judgment on September
25, 2006.
There are some important items that are mentioned in the “Findings”
section of the document, that are useful for the public and land owners
alike to know about to provide ever increasing wisdom in the world we
live in.
- Always put up signage indicating users of trail must do so at own
risk, and that trails are not regularly maintained, inspected, and may
contain hazards. Otherwise you could be held responsible for accidents
if you own the land or had a hand in building the trails.
- Signage must be at all points of trail entry, not just the head of
trails. Mr. Leone apparently entered the trails system on a side road
and therefore saw no signs.
- Even though you may only allow trails to be used for cross country
skiing during the winter months, the fact you may be doing trail
maintenance during other months of the year means that the trails are
your responsibility all year round (unless you put up signage mentioned
in first point, or clearly put up signage prohibiting other specific
activities).
- If you know that other types of users are using your trails for other
activities than intended, like mountain biking, ATV’s, camping, or
horseback riding, then you have a duty of care (ie. responsibility) for
these people. Unless, of course, you put up signage as mentioned in
first point.
- If someone has an accident on your property, always make sure you act
by doing something to prevent it from happening next time. Otherwise you
will be accused of negligence if you do nothing.
- Even though a hole may be created by an ATV on your trails, causing
someone to trip over it and break their spine, you are responsible for
this hazard and fixing it (unless you have clear signs indicating that
ATV’s are not allowed, or again, if you have signage as mentioned in
first point).
>From the statements of the court mentioned in this document, it appears
that Mr. Leone has a good case to win so far.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
pj7
Interesting thought here, but what is all of this wasa scam?
First, the guy makes a living by manipulating the laws for the "poor victim".
One day he realises, "I could make even more as a victim!!"
And here we are today.
:D
Paul L.
Sun, April 17, 2005
CYCLISTS FEAR FOR SPORT
By TRACY MCLAUGHLIN, SPECIAL TO THE TORONTO SUN
A MOUNTAIN biker who launched a million-dollar lawsuit after falling off his bike has lit a fire under Collingwood area bike enthusiasts who fear the suit will close their trails. James Leone is suing the Toronto Outing Club and its Kolapore Uplands Wilderness Ski Trails Committee as well as the Town of The Blue Mountains, the Grey-Bruce Trails Network and the province for an accident he had while mountain biking last August.
The 31-year-old personal injury lawyer from Toronto claims he suffered fractured vertebrae and several soft-tissue injuries when his bicycle came to an abrupt stop after hitting a hole in the trail, sending him over the handlebars.
"It's a crying shame," said "die-hard" mountain biker Mark Derrick, who helped organize a meeting of concerned bikers in Collingwood yesterday.
"We have hundreds of miles of amazing trails in this area and most of us realize that if you take on this sport, you take on a challenge and a risk." He said his wife, Lynn, has dislocated her shoulder by falling on the trails twice but never considered a lawsuit.
"This suit does cause a concern that the trails will be threatened," said trail specialist with the International Mountain Bike Association, Laura Woolner. "The case could set a precedent for other cases in Ontario and that could have an enormous impact on non-profit clubs who will have to purchase huge amounts of insurance to keep trails open. Essentially it could shut them down," she said.
Heres an idea, lets take a page out of the drunk drivers book and post his picture at all the local bike shops he could frequent. Make sure people tell him their opinion of him. Hit him where it hurts, take away his pride and dignity! Show him what an idiot he is and hope he changes. (oops, forgot he had no dignity by the existence of this lawsuit, maybe it will just be pride then).
Perhaps places like this could go to a permit system where you sign a waiver and pay a small fee for paperwork?
sgtsmile
I'm curious, do some people get into mountain biking knowing what they are getting into or do they think that all of the trails are lined with gravel and kept nice and level to make it easy and safe?
If they do, they are not mtn bikers. If a trail is like this, I personally go many many km out of my way to AVOID them if I am looking to do trail riding...
Tom Stormcrowe
Heres an idea, lets take a page out of the drunk drivers book and post his picture at all the local bike shops he could frequent. Make sure people tell him their opinion of him. Hit him where it hurts, take away his pride and dignity! Show him what an idiot he is and hope he changes. (oops, forgot he had no dignity by the existence of this lawsuit, maybe it will just be pride then).
Perhaps places like this could go to a permit system where you sign a waiver and pay a small fee for paperwork?
Best idea I've read in a while!:D
EDIT: And as far as I know, he can't claim privacy either as his suit places this in public domain. Just word a "News Release" on the poster with the picture......http://www.mocoforo.com/foro/style_emoticons/default/diablo.gif
This jackhole's lawsuit is already causing problems:
A group of volunteers who have toiled away for nine years to restore the 104-year-old lightkeeper's house on Flowerpot Island have padlocked the doors and left after being told they have to sign a lease assuming public liability.
"We're volunteers protecting and saving a part of Canadian heritage for the Canadian people so we shouldn't have been put in this terrible position of potentially being sued out of existence," said Garry Keast, president of the Friends of Bruce District Parks...
This stems from a $1.15 million lawsuit launched by Toronto lawyer James Leone naming the University of Toronto Outing Club as a defendant after he fell off his mountain bike on a ski trail the club maintains at Kolapore Uplands, near Blue Mountain.
I'm with Shakespeare on this one.
Bikepacker67
volenti non fit injuria - Latin for "to a willing person, no injury is done." This doctrine holds that a person who knowingly and willingly puts himself in a dangerous situation cannot sue for any resulting injuries.
Rear Admiral
Keith99
This jackhole's lawsuit is already causing problems:
I'm with Shakespeare on this one.
In the Los Angeles area there are several mountian bikeing trails that are closed. I don;t remember the trails name, but it is near La Jolla canyon (in L.A. area not San Diego). On paper there is a neat loop starting at the beach and ending at teh beach about a mile farther north. PCH is a reasonable connecting road at that point. No longer someone crashed on the steep downhill, that section of trail now closed to cyclists. Or at least that was the case 10 years ago. This is just south of Point Mugu.
unkchunk
Hit him where it hurts, take away his pride and dignity!
Pride and dignity? He's an attorney!
I think he should be culturized by becoming a catch phrase. Like instead of calling people "pussies", we call them "James V. Leones". Or maybe before a crash people should yell "Jim Leone" in a diametrically opposed way to "Leroy Jenkins".
atbman
The defendants should countersue on the grounds that his bike should have been equipped with stabilisers. He should also provide proof that he had taken a certified mountainbike skills course which qualified him to ride offroad if his bike was not so equipped.
It may be, of course, that the hole was invisible to the naked eye, in which case he will win. Altho' a hole which is invisible would have been too small to cause him to crash.
On the other hand, if anyone knows of any medical research laboratories which need experimental subjects, no-one will campaign if he is used as an experimental animal as rats are much more appealing and photogenic than lawyers
unkchunk
Ahhh, but why stop there atbman? Is this hole not a natural hole? The facts of this case show that he encountered only one hole (thus a rare hole) and that he was injured (thus an endangering hole). Therefore James V Leones willfully destroyed a rare and endangering natural hole, all without filing an environmental impact study. Is anyone aware of the plight of natural holes in the Blue Mountains? There was once a time where there were millions of holes in North America. But over time, natural holes have been filled in at an unsustainable rate. James V Leones may have destroyed one of the last pair of breeding holes in the Collingwood area. Sure, we could probably cross breed it with one those dusky holes from the Carolinas. But do we really need another un-natural hybrid hole? Of course not.
What Leones needs to do is conduct a census of all the existing natural holes in the Collingwood area and the historical hole population trends.
atbman
Unchunk, I find your arguments entirely convincing and holesome and am convinced that they have the force of holey writ - they were, after all, writ holely on the subject. In fact, I agree with the hole point of this thread.
In fact, your reasoning is organic,as it gives me holefood for thought.
sgtsmile
Pride and dignity? He's an attorney!
I think he should be culturized by becoming a catch phrase. Like instead of calling people "pussies", we call them "James V. Leones". Or maybe before a crash people should yell "Jim Leone" in a diametrically opposed way to "Leroy Jenkins".
Spoken like a vetran of WoW!
bac
Hit him where it hurts, take away his pride and dignity!
Did you miss the fact that he's a personal injury "lawyer"? Much like Elvis, any hint of pride and dignity has long since left the building. :mad:
However, I do agree with your stance to out this guy. How about a web-site that outs parasites like this loser? That would be a great first step toward at least leveling the playing field. The Internet (plural if your GW) does shift some legitimate power back to the people, no? We can affectively harnes that power and use it to the greater good - like stamping out the dirt that hope to profit from our loss of freedom.
It's a thought! :)
... Brad
BLIZZ
It amazes me how nothing is ever anybodys own fault.
If I crash hitting a hole {I don't care how big or small} its MY fault.
I didn't handle the hole the way I should have.
The hole didn't change possition or shape or severity.
I am the one that can change the situation.
I can lift my front wheel over the hole, or bunny hop, or steer around {even going off trail if needed}, or stop before hitting it.
If I can't do any of these things, then it is still MY fault because i was riding over my ability or to fast for conditions in relation to my ability as a rider.
It's the holes fault..... MY *****. :mad:
bragi
This whole thing kind of reminds me of that story about a hiker in New Mexico who called the Forest Service on her cell phone to request a rescue. When the dispatcher asked if she was injured, she replied no, she was just tired. When the Forest Service opted not to rescue, she sued (and lost). I think she was a lawyer, too. (No offense to lawyers in general, just ambulance chasers.) I'm fairly certain nothing will come of this case, either. I mean, what reasonable person goes MTB, falls down, and then tries to sue someone? Even in the US, such a thing is laughable.
closetbiker
just came across a story about legal obligations (or not) on trails in BC.
It seems a lawsuit like this can never happen here.
from, http://www.momentumplanet.ca/node/433
... the policy behind the 1998 Occupier’s Liability Amendment Act, which limited the duty of care owed by land owners, including the government, to the public, including cyclists. Under the amendments to that statute, and the one case in BC which has considered the amendments, cyclists who ride the North Shore and UBC trails will likely be treated by the law as trespassers. That doesn’t mean it is illegal to ride on these trails and you can be shot at for doing it. What it means is that it is perfectly legal to ride the trails, but any cyclist who rides on a undeveloped rural property, vacant land, or a recreational trail (marked as such) is deemed to have willingly accepted all risks. The “occupier” of the land, that is, the person in possession or control of the land, is only obliged to not create a danger with intent to do harm to the person or damage to the person’s property, or act with reckless disregard to the safety of the person or integrity of the person’s property. In fact, that is no more onerous than the common law duty of care owed to trespassers. There is no liability for negligent conduct, but only intentional conduct.
...So if you are grievously injured on public land in this province which is either rural in character or marked for a recreational use (the North Shore, UBC trails), you will likely have no legal recourse against those in possession and/or control of the land, even if you can establish negligence.
...without legislative immunity on recreational lands, litigation will eventually force restricted access and ultimately closure of lands normally enjoyed by recreational cyclists.
sgtsmile
*applauds BC*
mlh122
I have some solarized sunglasses that somehow make it hard to see shadows. Since roots and holes are emphasized by their shadows, it took me a few wrecks to realize I wasn't being unobservant, it was the stupid glasses. They also make wet leaves look like liquid silver. They are great as driving glasses though.