Sidewalk bicycling

[joejack951]

Probably no more so than walking across the street means walking IN traffic.

How is crossing a street (assuming it's occupied by traffic, otherwise why would cyclists/peds want to be on the sidewalk?) not walking in traffic?

[jharte]

I like sidewalks, parking lots, dirt roads, medians, and especially.......underground garages. :D

[Jolt]

As a general rule I don't think bikes belong on the sidewalk (other than for little kids), plus as a pedestrian using the sidewalk I know I don't appreciate people flying by (without leaving much space between themselves and me) on their bike. However, I will make exceptions for bypassing a problem area if riding through it on the road really seems unsafe. That said, in those cases if there are a lot of pedestrians I'll get off the bike and walk it in order not to put them in danger of me crashing into them, and I do my best to avoid roads where that is necessary in the first place.

[BikeNinjagirl]

i always ride on the mup - i always obey all the crosswalk lights -- yes it's a pain but where i live i feel it's safer -- i also use the sidewalk-- obeying all crosswalk lights and giving pedestrians the right of way. I'm in a retirement area and since the begining of the year 2 people have been crushed while riding the bike lane. I also see many many riders who simply have no business riding in the bike lane -- they do not know how to negotiate the lanes -- i cannot tell you how many times i have actually seen people get off their bike while in the bike lane to try to get across to the turn lane. And riders of 3 wheel bikes - no helmets in the bike lane going against traffic-- i have tried to speak to all that i see --advocating the use of the lane properly OR using the mup -- i'm tired of being asked "who are you the bike police? " Don't get me wrong lots of cyclist in this town use the bike lane properly -- but those few who don't are very dangerous to everyone else. I'll also give this town a hand -- politeness is the norm here - on a bike on the mup or the sidewalk cars ALWAYS give the bike the right of way at any intersection. I've been here a year now and this bit of politeness has not waivered one bit.

ninjagirl

[scubajim49]

The fact is, unless you live with responsible adults the sidewalk is so much more different than the street!Say what you want, I saw bull****,30 days,next case! Where I live, people thinnk that they're the only ones in public! People come out of stores fast and furious! They don't look at who's coming or where they're going. When you cross the street on a sidewalk, drivers only look in one direction before they pull out! Pedestrians don't look at who's coming or going.They're rude, ignorant and inconsiderate! As a ex-sidewalk rider, I have had more close calls running into people and vise versa! Wanna ride the sidewalks, be my guest! Just slow down and ride sensible!

[rando]

it all depends on the situation. On a sidewalk that I ride regularly, it's nice and wide, very little pull-out traffic,shady with nary a ped in sight, ever. why would I NOT ride on that?

[noisebeam]

it all depends on the situation. On a sidewalk that I ride regularly, it's nice and wide, shady with nary a ped in sight, ever. why would I NOT ride on that?
Where do you ride? I see peds all the time along arterial sidewalks, not urban density, but they are there.

Sometimes they even jump into the street ;)

Al

[scubajim49]

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that avoids sidewalks. Also, before you do, check the city ordinances in case they say no sidewalk riding!! Austin, Tx has rules for which sidewalks you can or can't ride on! I hear the police there will arrest you for that.The state makes the rules but each city makes their own!

[scubajim49]

I am a 3000 mile in the big city commuter per year. I think that I should have as much of a say as some lab guy! The streets stink, but the sidewalks are fricken dangerous! Don't think so? Ride with me!

[IdiotMD]

I tend to stick to MUPs and sidewalks as I drive a taxi at night and see a lot of stupid cager activity. I've come to realize I don't wear a safety-yellow jacket and helmet as defense from being hit as much as for defense for being found at fault for when I will eventually get hit.

[LazyGirl]

I was riding in the car with someone once and he almost hit a cyclist. The cyclist was slowing down to cross an intersection (or was it a driveway?), and the driver started making a right turn right towards him. The driver did stop, but a little too late, because if the cyclist hadn't stopped too the car would have hit him. He says, "He was slowing down, I thought he was stopping!" and getting defensive about how the near-miss wasn't his fault. :rolleyes:

When a cyclist is riding down the street, however, he slows down and is careful to go around and stuff.

Of course, he's had some near misses with vehicles, too, even when I'm telling him to look out for xyz. So, if everyone drives like him, it's probably safer to ride on the road. :rolleyes:

I hate having to look behind me every time I approach a driveway if I'm on the sidewalk, but with idiots on the road like that you just can't trust cars to give you the right of way. If I was on the road I wouldn't have to look behind me every 15 feet. Cars don't expect you to stop at every driveway when you're on the road. Maybe I should ride on the road more often?

So, what vehicle behavior have you guys noticed in different biking situations?

[rando]

Where do you ride? I see peds all the time along arterial sidewalks, not urban density, but they are there.

Sometimes they even jump into the street ;)

Al

this is a stretch of 14th St between priest and 52nd St. it's an office park with little traffic.

[noisebeam]

this is a stretch of 14th St between priest and 52nd St. it's an office park with little traffic.
You mean this is the stretch you ride in the street, right? 14th is indeed low traffic has wide easliy sharable lanes. The sidewalk is deeply offset from the road and crosses many intersections/driveways.

Al

[rando]

You mean this is the stretch you ride in the street, right? 14th is indeed low traffic has wide easliy sharable lanes. The sidewalk is deeply offset from the road and crosses many intersections/driveways.

Al

No, I take the sidewalk because it's wide, shaded by big elms, eucalyptus and mesquite trees and there's plants and grass and flower beds (geraniums, violets, allysum--although they wont last long now that it's hot.) to look at. it's the champs-elysees of office park sidewalks. it's the purtiest part of my route!

[no motor?]

One thing I haven't seen addressed here is enforcement of laws prohibiting riding bicycles on the sidewalk. I've never seen anyone in trouble for this (or riding against the flow of traffic either), including when I would be in the Chicago loop where bike messengers ride all over the place. I'm putting together a bicycle/pedestrian route for a local group, and the question of the legality of riding on the sidewalk keeps coming up. Some are worried that we would be advocating doing something illegal (yes, we are checking with the police WRTT), which got me to wondering if these laws were ever enforced.

[musicsucks]

i was biking on the road in a residential area the other day and a 5 year old was on his bike (no helmet) and he said to me a few times "Sidewalk!".

I thought it was cute, and i hate kids.

[shortbus901]

I use the sidewalk occasionally, mostly when I ride over to my parents. Nobody around here walks so peds are pretty much a non-issue and being that the alternative is a very very heavily trafficed road with minimal to no bike lanes and generally hostile drivers I see no problem with it. I do consider it my responsibility to look out at the few crossings I encounter since drivers generally don't. Most of these rides are more laid back cruising type speeds anyways so it isn't a big deal to slow a bit more here and there.

[Baroque]

From John S. Allen, LAB Regional Director, New York/New England:

"The evidence that bicycling on sidewalks and similar facilities is more hazardous than bicycling on streets is overwhelming."

According to Dr. Eero Pasanen, Helsinki City Planning Department, Traffic Planning Division, HELSINKI
FINLAND--

"A recent study in Helsinki showed that it is safer to cycle on streets amongst cars than on our two-way cycle paths along streets. It is hard to imagine that our present two-way cycling network could be rebuilt. But in those countries and cities which are just beginning to build their cycling facilities, two-way cycle paths should be avoided in urban street networks.

Even in more advanced cycling countries like Denmark and in the Netherlands, with a lot of cyclists and with their one-way lanes and paths, cycling is still much more dangerous than car driving or public transport. "




Coming into this a bit late, but just one comment from someone who spent some years commuting by bike in Holland. Everyone but invalids in Holland rides bikes; not everyone has a car. So the statement that cycling is more dangerous than driving begs for statistical backup. It may be simply that the # of bike accidents is greater because the # of people travelling by bike is greater.

Going to school, work, shops, restaurants, friends, events, whatever by bike is the norm there. Dutch traffic laws clearly support the cyclists. Bike lanes/paths and traffic signals are omnipresent. This doesn't mean that cyclists, particularly younger people, obey the traffic laws by waiting for signals and staying in proper lanes. Or that car drivers don't screw up occasionally.

I never had an accident in a bike lane or on a bike trail in NL, but I did get T-boned in the street by a moron on another bike who wasn't looking where he was going (waving to friends, riding while abusing a controlled substance...). Personally, given a choice of a busy street or an empty sidewalk, I'd rather risk getting knocked off my bike on the sidewalk by another cyclist or a suddenly-appearing pedestrian than get hit by a car.
You also have to use your head and ride (anywhere) at an appropriate speed for the circumstances, no differently than when you're driving a car.

Just MHO though!

Ally

[LittleBigMan]

This whole thing amounts to accomodating cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists equally. After all, we are all human.

How we do it requires thought and perspective.

[ericthehalfab]

Not so in Vancouver, I mean we are human but the transportation priorities go like this: pedestrian, public transport, bicycle, industrial/commercial goods transport, and last is the car.

[kendall]

Certain roads I ride you can go for 6 miles or more without seeing a pedestrian, Kentwood, and to a lesser extent the whole grand rapids metro are is a 'car' area, the only time you see a lot of pedestrians is shortly before and shortly after school on school days. The rest of the time, the busiest pedestrian areas you -may- see someone every 15 to 20 minutes.
I'm good with riding on the sidewalk here.

Ken.

[LittleBigMan]

Certain roads I ride you can go for 6 miles or more without seeing a pedestrian, Kentwood, and to a lesser extent the whole grand rapids metro are is a 'car' area, the only time you see a lot of pedestrians is shortly before and shortly after school on school days. The rest of the time, the busiest pedestrian areas you -may- see someone every 15 to 20 minutes.
I'm good with riding on the sidewalk here.

Ken.
Ya, it's amazing how some sidewalks alongside major arteries have very few intersections, are smooth, and have absolutely no pedestrians on them most of the time.

[gcottay]

Indeed they do in the East and Midwest. And I don't give a dang what is or is not true in California when crossing a street elsewhere. How can you be so dang unaware of the world outside of SergeWorld and still expect anyone to buy your book of idiotic statements of universal truths?

Just to correct a factual error:

Illinois law gives pedestrians the ROW at all intersections unless walk signals are present. The extent to which ROW is claimed seems, in my experience, fairly small.

[dang133]

I think that riding in the street is always safer. Hands down.

[no motor?]

Ya, it's amazing how some sidewalks alongside major arteries have very few intersections, are smooth, and have absolutely no pedestrians on them most of the time.
That's the way it is around here. A deserted sidewalk with a few well marked driveways or a four lane street with a curb, 45 mph speed limit and no shoulder.

[ralph12]

That's the way it is around here. A deserted sidewalk with a few well marked driveways or a four lane street with a curb, 45 mph speed limit and no shoulder.

The only way I'd ride on a sidewalk (unless it was a residential area and I was just screwing around, or I'd gotten caught at night with no headlight) would be if it were a high-speed 2-laner with uphills and curves. With a passing lane, I don't feel uncomfortable meshing with fast traffic; they can just pass right by. Around here though, the 2-lane highways almost never have a sidewalk, so I just ride vehicularly. It may piss off the rare motorist, but actually out in the country people are usually nicer than in town.

There is one highway around here I hate riding on though. It's 2 lanes, most people drive well over the speed limit (sometimes I guesstimate their speed to be about 50), and it's chock-full of major hills...fortunately, I hardly have to travel on it so it's alright. I don't even like motorcycling on that road. It's just a little too nerve-wracking.

[VPR]

Here in Toronto apparently riding on most sidewalks is forbidden. But I do anyway because the road is dangerous with all the trucks and cars and just motorists that dont pay attention. Had a few complaints for old people usually, but I couldnt care less.

So, do you?

[Malistryx]

No, it is illegal in Ontario and you can get fined for it.

I tough it out on the roads when I'm downtown. I also feel safer on the roads than on the sidewalk, I had a cop wave me onto a "mup" (just a bit wider of a normal sidewalk) that parallels the road I ride on and I was dodging people and pets the whole time, I just bailed back onto the road and stay there. The cop wasn't telling me I had to ride there, he was just trying to help out since that stretch is a fairly high speed limit and I'm sure a lot of people would be uncomfortable there.

[chevy42083]

Yes, but only along the interstate feeder roads.... too busy and too high a speed for me to be comfortable.

[-=£em in Pa=-]

I do here in FLA.
There are bike lanes everywhere but sometimes they end abruptly
for a block or two for reasons I cant figure out. There are also 6'
sidewalks with curb cut-outs Ive never actually seen anybody walking on.....
In fact, other than the beach, people just dont walk here at all...in a situation
where the lane ends, I jump up on the empty walk for that block or so.

[VPR]

I didnt see the sidewalk bicycling thread

sorry

[AEO]

I'd say it's relatively safe bicycling on toronto roads. Being on the sidewalk can sometimes put you in the blind spot for a right hook or you can get a door prize from the passenger side. But that also depends on your location? Are you downtown, Etobicoke, mississauga, north york or new market?

[pj7]

I'll ride across the back of a crippled old woman to get where I'm going. :D

[Bekologist]

I'm only riding on sidewalks if it enhances my road cycling around traffic clusterfuzzlers.

riding on sidewalks, overall, is slower and less safe than mixing it up on the roads.

[Roody]

I'm only riding on sidewalks if it enhances my road cycling around traffic clusterfuzzlers.

riding on sidewalks, overall, is slower and less safe than mixing it up on the roads.
+1. Another time I'll ride on sidewalks is when there's construction and the road is closed or super-sandy. Also when I'm being lazy, going a short distance on a busy street, and I don't feel like merging across several lanes of traffic and then back again.

[wabbit]

very rarely...only if i'm on a really scary trafficy road, and just for a couple of blocks...there are a few routes where i'll just go on the sidewalk for a block or two until i get to the right intersection.

[Utm69]

I notice where I live people who ride mountain bikes/hybrids tend to ride on the sidewalk more often than someone with a road bike (Roadies).

I personally stay away from sidewalks except when there is a hazard on the road in which I then dismount my bike and walk on the sidewalk. EVEN when no one is around. I don't feel like getting a ticket.

[maddyfish]

No it's illegal here. And well enforced. 12 and under on the sidewalk, 13 and over on the road. They stop big kids to ask ages.

[Hickeydog]

You only ride on the sidewalks were I live if you have either (1) a death wish, or (2) if you are training for some bike-rock-climbing event.

[gizmocat]

Here in our town, the streets are either chewed up with potholes from the winter storms, or torn up by work crews. They are a disaster. The sidewalks in the residential neighbourhoods are a good deal safer.
And I've driven right by cops who didn't bother to even look up. Most everyone rides on the sidewalk. There have been people killed by trying to ride in the street--cars and buses don't even look for them.

[Bikedelic]

I thought you may be interested to hear about the situation in Japan.

It's entirely legal to ride on sidewalks and almost every one does (and that's a lot of people because almost everyone rides a bike here). Even policemen ride on the sidewalk!

People generally go slowly on what look like shopping bikes designed for old ladies, so accidents are rare and minor. So I think it is generally safe however, it is a really annoying inconvenience for pedestrians to have cyclists coming up behind incessantly ring their bells. According to the law pedestrians have priority and any cyclist must stop or slow down until the way is clear. Cyclists are also allowed to ride the opposite way up one-way-streets.

For myself I stick to the roads except to cross a bridge where the traffic is horrendous and the sidewalk is wide and virtually free of pedestrians. If you do hit a pedestrian on the sidewalk you can be liable for huge damages.

I try to stick to back roads through suburbs and avoid heavy traffic.

[JamesM]

I have lived in South Florida for 25 years. This is an urban city with few if any bike paths and very few bike lanes. Where a bike lanes exist, they often disappear with out warning, often at a road narrowing, the point where they are needed most.

I have been over the top of a car once. I have been run off the road by numerous times, mostly by accident but sometimes by people with deliberate intent. I have had friends hit several times, every one of them when the person was riding on the road going the correct direction and in the correct position. Two of them were hit when in a bike lane.

Frequently people shout "Get off the road". The rednecks seem to believe that bikes should be on the sidewalk, like when they were little kids, and that roads are for pickup trucks.

We once had a law that bikes with wheels over 24" had to ride on the road. That was dropped because we have so many car-bike incidents. You are now allowed to ride on the sidewalk. They changed the law because the sidewalk is safer.

Many recreational riders and even the police ride their bikes on the sidewalk. This tends to be the slower moving and beach cruiser crowed. (Of which I am one when I bike down to the beach). Unfortunately this also leads the idiots to again believe that road bikes should not be on the road, and they shout "Get of the road" or they make a sport of passing you so close you wish you had stayed on the sidewalk.

When I am out on my road bike, doing 20 miles per hour, then I am on the road, in the traffic. I only do this in the mornings when the light is good, no one is tired and there are no drunks out. At full road bike speed the difference between me and the traffic speed is reduced and that makes it safer.

As the person above observed, people on road bikes are more often in the road, and people on mountain bikes or beach cruisers are more often on the sidewalk. This is true for me, I am more often on the sidewalk when on a mountain bike, because I use that for urban errands and the route is determined by where I need to go. I am normally on the road all the way when I am exercising on the road bike, but then the route and time of day is selected for least probability of death. Even then, from my house, there is only one route I consider safe enough for a road bike workout, and only in the morning hours. You may consider this to be paranoid but most other people who exercise on road bikes do exactly the same route, go north and come back on A1A. Even then, every year, a few of us get hit on that road.

The few bike lanes that exist are a real problem. They are a joy when they exist, unfortunately around here they have very serious defects. For example the bike lanes on Las Olas Blvd vanish at several critical points, just where the cars are changing direction and/or elevation, and at the same time the road bead narrows. It's like, ok here is a dangerous narrow point so lets forget the bike lane until it gets safe and wide again. There is no sign, there is no bikes merging markings, you just find the lane peters out and you are dumped into the car lane. Dumped in at exactly the wrong point, where it is most dangerous.

Therefor there are points where I will make a dive for the sidewalk because I know that the bike lane is ending. Because I am a local I know the section ahead is known for bike-car accidents. It is the people who don't have the local knowledge that get killed all the time.

There are points on the road where I TELL people to take to the sidewalk, be cause IT IS SAFER. I have twice witnessed very serious car-bike accidents in the exact same spot. (Serious = death or long term disability). I know why there are accidents happen there, and tell everyone to take to the sidewalk to get past that point on the road. In contrast, to my knowledge, there have been no sidewalk accidents along that stretch.

I am absolutely sure that there are points on the road where sidewalks are safer. On the other hand, I know of no places where the road is safer than the sidewalk. Therefore I don't think you can't make a general extrapolation that roads are always safer than sidewalks. The augment that you are statistically more likely to have accidents on the sidewalk is about as relevant as the statistic that eventually 100% of people die. You have to put a statistic context. Are the sidewalk accidents less a lot less serious than on road accidents? What is the rate of death? If you are 2 times more likely to break a bone on the sidewalk, you have to offset that with the risk that on the road you may have half the number of accidents... but three times the risk of death if you did have one.

People are not riding on the sidewalk to bring down the probability of having an accident, they are riding on the sidewalk to bring down the probability of their own death.

I generally recommend that young and inexperienced riders ride the sidewalks. When they do they should act like pedestrians, so when they cross a road they need to stop and look both ways.

The real problem in South Florida, or the USA for that matter, is the low standard of driving, and the low standards of driver education, and the extremely low standard for the the driving test. The US test, compared to a UK test, is so simple it is a joke. For example, and I am not making this up:

In Florida, the written section of the course is just 20 questions on street signs, and multiple choice. Example of a question on my test... Picture of red sign with eight sides and the letters STOP in the middle. (a) Yield to oncoming traffic, (b) you must come to a complete stop, (c) you must stop if other traffic is coming, (d) you are advised to stop.

If you don't understand the English multiple choice questions you can take the test in Spanish or creole, or ... Unfortunately when you hit the real streets, the "No turn on Red" sign is in English. Now you know why driving in West Miami is frightening and Miami has so few bicycle commuters.

I can't see to read without glasses, but the visual test they gave passed me to drive without glasses.

The last thing is to do an on road test. At the testing center on Powerline road every test taker does the same route. Start in the parking lot. Pull out onto a two lane road and go west. Make the first right and meander through the residential neighborhood. (35 mph) Make two more rights and you are now approaching the testing center from the other side. Park in the parking space marked by the cones. Finished. One loop, all right hand turns, no more than 35 mph on the circuit.

The driving test given at this center does not test your ability to: Make a left turn, or change lanes, or do anything above 35 mph, or merge, or turn the car around, avoid obsticals, parallel park, etc.

The parking space that you have to park in at the end of the test is so wide that it is a joke. I was green when I took my test, but I did know how to drive, having previously been taught in Europe. I was told to park between the cones that were at least 14 feet apart. I approached the cones, and parallel parked the car so that it was between the cones, one directly ahead and one behind the car. The tester was amazed, because they just wanted to see if I could park the car end on, with one either side. End on? Any competent person could have fit two cars end on, side by side, in that space. It was wide enough for a buss and a car.

There are no questions on the driving test about bicycles, or for that matter many of the other things that a real test should cover. I think that poor driver education and abysmal testing standards are to blame for a lot of the car accidents.

Not one car driver I have ever talked to knows about the three foot law that has been on the books for more than a year. (Motor vehicles leave a 3-foot gap when overtaking bicyclists.) They should send out a flier with the auto renewal applications.

In 2005, Florida had the highest number of fatal bicycle accidents of any state, 124 of the 784 nationwide total. In 2006 Fifty-eight people died in bicycle crashes statewide during the first six months of the year. Sorry I don't have the data from then on, but as you can see Florida, especially the built up urban core in the South East, (Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Broward county, West Palm) is deadly.

About 70 percent of bicycle crashes occur because drivers fail to yield, said Dwight Kingsbury, assistant pedestrian/bicycle coordinator for the Florida Department of Transportation. It is not the bikes on the sidewalk that cause accidents, it is clearly cars on the road that fail.

Failure to Yield, by the bike or car is the most common cause of bike/car accidents. And as we see, 70 percent of them are the cars fault. Personally I think the ratio may be higher, but dead cyclists don't testify.

Next is 'Wrong-way" Riding — The second most common cause, bicyclists riding against traffic. (Note that this is the most common cause that is the cyclist's fault.) Very bad, gets you killed.

Opening Car Doors is the third most common cause — The result of a motorist opening the door of a parked car in front of a passing bike. This is illegal and a collision is, under Florida law, always the motorist's fault.

Overtaking Cars — (Getting hit from behind). Death usually occurs at night and with an unlighted bicyclist, and/or a motorist who has been drinking. The new three foot law has been passed to help keep overtaking cars a reasonable distance away but is not enforced and almost all of the drivers are totally un-aware of the law.

Not one of the top four involve using the sidewalk. In fact not one of the top 10 probable causes involve using the sidewalk, except... if a cyclist failed to stop at a cross street and rode into the path of an oncoming car that would be classified as a failure to yield. Most failure to yield incidents are where the bike is going the correct way and operating correctly, but the car that failed to give a bike room, or in many most cases, to even see them. The next group is bikes who fail to stop when they should. ( I would guess this group is smaller than reported because when the cyclist dies the only people left to tell the story are the people in the car, and they lie a lot.)

With one bike death every other day in Florida, almost all of them on the roads, you can understand why people take to the sidewalk. It may be slower, but IT IS SAFER, especially if the cyclist stops at all cross streets and takes care to monitor all driveways. Even then, most cars coming out of blind driveways are not moving fast, so if there is an accident it is unlikely to be fatal.

I ride on the road most of the time. I ride on the sidewalk when the road is one way against me, or when the road is just unsafe. Unsafe in my judgment. Others ride on the sidewalks when the road is unsafe in their judgment. It is not that they are stupid, they are just trying to make a rational decision about safety. Until we see some better statics, and safer roads, I can't fault their logical choice.

[LittleBigMan]

I do here in FLA.
I don't mind finding alternate SW routes when I'm in a hurry. Heck, who want's to wait behind a hot, fume-belching line of gasoline engines for several minutes? I've got my body to consider, it's got to take me a lot more miles!


There are bike lanes everywhere but sometimes they end abruptly
for a block or two for reasons I cant figure out.
What a perfect example of the government's commitment to bicycle transportation.
There are also 6'
sidewalks with curb cut-outs Ive never actually seen anybody walking on.....
In fact, other than the beach, people just dont walk here at all...in a situation
where the lane ends, I jump up on the empty walk for that block or so.
:beer:

While I generally avoid sidewalks (I want the road, I don't want leftovers!) I have done this whenever and wherever the fancy suits me.

If the pedestrians aren't going to use them, somebody should.

When are we going to have equal treatment with motorists? When will we quit having to settle for making our way around the sea of cars, yielding to them at their command?

A government of the motorists, by the motorists, and for the motorists shall not perish from the earth....

[-=£em in Pa=-]

JamesM : Re;#442

Excellent summation of our area !!!! :beer:
As I have stated before, in a perfect world riding per experts expert opinion
would be all we would need to coexist, but in our little sphere of reality
trying to coexist and 'educate' means harm will come to you, its just a matter of time.

Little Big Man :

Are you in FL ?? ATL ??

[skiffrun]

Riding on sidewalks is VERY safe.

You never have cars turning off the road into a drive or onto another road and hitting a cyclist who was traveling at 10 mph, which is two to three times as fast as a pedestrian.

You never have cars hitting a cyclist as the car leaves a place of business and wasn't looking for a cyclist traveling two to three (or more) times the speed of a pedestrian.

You never have pedestrians suddenly step onto the sidewalk from the grassy area next to the sidewalk, or from a subsidiary sidewalk, or from a store-front, right in front of the cyclist who was traveling two to three or more times the speed of a typical pedestrian.

You never have a car backing out of its residental driveway hitting a cyclist that was riding on the sidewalk at two to three or more times the speed of a pedestrian, and requiring many times more distance in which to stop the bike than the pedestrian requires to stop themselves.

When riding on the sidewalk, you never encounter kamakaze cyclists riding the other directions that could care less about you.

You never have dogs on leashes choosing an unpredictable meandering path walking along the sidewalk while their owner could care less about anyone or anything else in the world.

When riding on the sidewalk yo never encounter suddenly closed sections of the sidewalk because of a construction site.

When riding on the sidewalk you never have low lying branches trying to remove one of your eyes (or both).

There are never sudden holes (missing sections) waiting to endo you when riding on the sidewalk.

There is never loose gravel on a sidewalk. There are never areas with left-over, inches thick, muddy wash-out (i.e., mud) on the sidewalks.

There are never sudden dramatic changes in elevation caused by a section having been "upheaved".

Yes, it is good riding on the sidewalk. There are no dangers at all.

[LittleBigMan]

Little Big Man :

Are you in FL ?? ATL ??
I'm in the ATL. Dang it's hot right now!

:D

[no motor?]

JamesM : Re;#442

Excellent summation of our area !!!! :beer:
As I have stated before, in a perfect world riding per experts expert opinion
would be all we would need to coexist, but in our little sphere of reality
trying to coexist and 'educate' means harm will come to you, its just a matter of time.

Agreed! Many years ago when I learned to ride a motorcycle I learned to "ride your own ride". That is, you are responsible for your own safety and need to make changes in your riding to make yourself safe - like don't put yourself in a bad situation, don't try and keep up with faster riders if it's not safe etc...., and switching to the deserted sidewalk on the bicycle while traffic goes by at about 4 times my speed a few feet away the other side of a steep curb until I get to the MUP sure makes sense here.

[LittleBigMan]

I have found that in the anthill called "downtown," sidewalk cycling can actually get me there faster, when traffic clogs the streets.

But my rule is "hit the high road," cuz there's no way I'll get to work in an hour on the sidewalk. (Try, 1 1/2 or 2 hours.)

But when traffic is gridlocked, I'm all for it. Nobody is out on those sidewalks, unless they are waiting for a bus.

Still, overall, sidewalks are not the solution, just a way of jamming some gauze into a bleeding wound. :D

Hey, I'm not religious. :beer:

[gcottay]

Indeed they do in the East and Midwest. And I don't give a dang what is or is not true in California when crossing a street elsewhere. How can you be so dang unaware of the world outside of SergeWorld and still expect anyone to buy your book of idiotic statements of universal truths?

By Illinois law, pedestrians have the ROW when crossing a street/road at an intersection. When a signal is present, pedestrians have the ROW as indicated by the signal.

In Illinois practice, most pedestrians know that a significant number of automobile drivers will not yield the ROW.

George

[gcottay]

This one seems simple to me.

Bikes belong on the roads, but there are times when using the sidewalk makes excellent sense.

If and when we ride on a sidewalk, blend with the pedestrians. On a busy sidewalk, this means the pace of a snail. Don't expect pedestrians to get out of our way because we can go faster than they can.

When there's room to move faster, still move slowly. My own person rule is to keep it down to six or eight MPH because of all the potential hazards well noted here.

If we choose to ride on a sidewalk where it's not allowed and get busted, we should smile, pay the fine, and talk to our favorite local politician about some changes.

George