Classic & Vintage - UpGrading the Paramount

I got a paramount a few months ago and now I have some questions after riding it the other day. One is can I change the friction shifting to the click shift brake lever/shifter with the campy record front and rear derailers? Second is if that isn't possible could I upgrade from the original campy record to some sort of new system? And would that be compatable with the chainstays which I belive are 120mm vs the 130mm they use for todays systems? Or if non of that can be done are there current wheelsets that may be able to get it going. Im trying to stay away from rebuilding the tubular rims to clinchers. Im interested in making this a more current system with a vintage frame. Anyone got some ideas?

Its a steel frame I assume so you can fit a 130mm wheel in there with a little effort, or have the frame cold set to accept a 130. If you want to keep the original derailleurs you will probably have to stay with an old setup, I am assuming its either 6 or 7 spd? If you want to upgrade the derailleurs to something newer like a 9/10spd, then you can use modern STI levers. Its pretty expensive though. I actually went through and did all this on my Paramount. It was a little more cost effective for me than for most b/c I worked at a shop that had tons of used parts, and on new parts I get a really nice discount. So, I have a Ultegra/105/RX100/600/Tiagra setup now, for about $500 invested, and an $80 powdercoat job. Wheels are a 130mm 9spd Velocity setup.

I don't use Campy so I don't know much about it, but I know with Shimano you can use some of the older 8spd derailleurs with a 9spd setup, and other things generally work together well as evidenced by my hodge podge of parts.

This sort of bugs me... Maybe I'm just an old retro-grouch, but why would you take a nice classic bike and want to modernize it? Why not ride it with all it's period-correct and original parts, and enjoy it for what it is, and was? Too slow up hills? Gear it properly & grow stronger legs.... You don't need more gears that click. Learn to shift. If you really hate down tube shifting, switch to period Suntour "bar-cons" or Campagnolo bar end shifters. They were original equipment on the touring Paramounts.

In it's day, a Paramount was a pretty well respected, high end bike. While some collectors poo-poo it as being a mass produced, mediocre production piece, I still think they're way cool. I drooled over 'em in the mid '70s.

If you want click shifting from the brake levers, why not just pick up a modern bike to do that?

(Sorry; I couldn't help myself. Feeling grouchy today...need to go for a ride...)

TOG is right! Paramounts should be treasured for what they are.

You can probably buy a decent new bike for what it would cost to upgrade the Paramount to indexed shifting, etc.

Please, what good is a bike if you aren't riding it? Save all the old parts in a box. Its not like you are hacking the frame to pieces.

Please, what good is a bike if you aren't riding it?

Where did he say he wasn't riding it?

Where did he say he wasn't riding it?

If he can't use friction shifting comfortably, I doubt its getting many miles.

Yeah, keep it as-is for the most part. Paramounts are great bikes. You could just look around for some non-STI indexed brakes on eBay or something...

I got a paramount a few months ago and now I have some questions after riding it the other day. One is can I change the friction shifting to the click shift brake lever/shifter with the campy record front and rear derailers? Second is if that isn't possible could I upgrade from the original campy record to some sort of new system? And would that be compatable with the chainstays which I belive are 120mm vs the 130mm they use for todays systems? Or if non of that can be done are there current wheelsets that may be able to get it going. Im trying to stay away from rebuilding the tubular rims to clinchers. Im interested in making this a more current system with a vintage frame. Anyone got some ideas?If it's got about a 57cm TT,trade it to me for my lugged and chromed Tommasini built with Columbus SLX that's got 'click shift brake levre shifters'......Actually what you are tryng to do makes little sense and is a money disposal. You need to toss the whole drivetrain and have the frame cold set. Many floks would love it for what it is and be happy.

I dunno... My sense of aestethics gets bunched up when I see stuff that "just doesn't go together"... I know it shouldn't matter to me really; it's not mine ("can't see it from my house"). But, for a bike I consider as cool as an old Paramount (I don't even know the vintage of this one), my advice is keep it set up with what was cool when the bike was current.
If it's mid '70s-early '80s, an "upgrade" that I think would be cool, might be going from Nuovo to Super Record on some parts... Maybe some nicely drilled/milled/anodized goodies. A switch from road to track pedals...(I always thought track pedals were a cool upgrade). Maybe a switch from the Brooks Pro to a period Unicanitor...?

Spreading a rear triangle from 120 to 130 mm, and putting index shifting stuff on the vintage frame may work great... But I still say just buy a more recent bike, and be proud of your original Paramount. Memories of Schwinn's once great name, is about all we have now...

jestone,
it's your bike, do what you want with it.
It'll be cheaper if you get some of the parts off ebay.
Might consider 8 speed, they are real cheap.
Have you ever tried bar end shifters? They are
also something to consider. Have fun, and let us know how it goes.

Yes, it's your bike. We can't stop you from doing what you want, but you did ask. Personally, I wouldn't attempt the cold set. Yes, it can be done, but it could also be done incorrectly, and possibly put more stress on the frame than it can safely handle. You can put a compact 6-speed freewheel on it and throw a triple ring on the front if you really want a lot of gear combinations without jeopardizing the integrity of the frame.

If you really want to, I'm sure you can put index shifters on it. Personally, I despise them, but once again, it is your bike.

...In it's day, a Paramount was a pretty well respected, high end bike. While some collectors poo-poo it as being a mass produced, mediocre production piece, I still think they're way cool. I drooled over 'em in the mid '70s...



wow. lotta traffic on this...I have a '73 and a 50th anniversary - the 50th was not mass produced, and I think that the older ones couldn't have been very mass produced either, considering their materials and construction. Mediocre? No, I have a '70's colnago super - that is borderline mediocre.

Both of the schwinns have excellent file work and finish. I am with y'all though...modernize something that's not all there if you have to. You'll spend a lot of money to make a six pound frame ride a little faster, when you could buy a mid-line brand new Trek or something for an equivalent amount. Keep it Campy, or the hit squad from campy-only.com will getcha!

sorry, i must have whacked off the quotes...that was a quote from TheOtherGuy...

Guys, you know that Campy's original Ergopower syatem was 6 speed and worked with old skool screw on freewheels. This stuff is not so expensive on ebay and would work with the Paramount. Best of all, it's pretty close to period correct. Save extra, buy Sachs Ergo's.

DG1

Thanks to those with actual information on what Im trying to do, yes I understand most people would not want to do such a thing to such a nice bike but Im into riding bikes. I ride over 15,000 miles a year and I am a strong ride, I use my bikes daily. I dont really want to abuse the original campy parts in the case that I may want to sell it in the future. Im just trying to set up the bike for reliable bulletproof use. I dont like the friction shifting (bar end) I would consider going to downtube if I can find a period correct one. I much prefer the click typpe shift so I actually know my gear ratio in my head vs having to look down at my rear derailer. Did I mention that I would also be using this bike for racing as well. I really want a the bike to be of sexy 1972 Schwinn Paramount with more current shifting and wheel technology. And losing a couple pounds in the process wouldnt hurt. And btw it is nice to show up to a race and smoke guys in there $5000 cabon/titanium junk.

Steel is ReaL~!

This sort of bugs me... Maybe I'm just an old retro-grouch, but why would you take a nice classic bike and want to modernize it? Why not ride it with all it's period-correct and original parts, and enjoy it for what it is, and was? Too slow up hills? Gear it properly & grow stronger legs.... You don't need more gears that click. Learn to shift. If you really hate down tube shifting, switch to period Suntour "bar-cons" or Campagnolo bar end shifters. They were original equipment on the touring Paramounts.

In it's day, a Paramount was a pretty well respected, high end bike. While some collectors poo-poo it as being a mass produced, mediocre production piece, I still think they're way cool. I drooled over 'em in the mid '70s.

If you want click shifting from the brake levers, why not just pick up a modern bike to do that?

(Sorry; I couldn't help myself. Feeling grouchy today...need to go for a ride...)

I agree "110 percent" (as Pro athletes like to say...having never passed a math class). I saw a 1975ish Paramount last Summer that was totally "as new", even down to the leather saddle. It turned out that the owner had recently sent it up to Waterford to be repainted and to get new decals to get that "like new" look. And, the saddle was a "new" copy of the original saddle. Everything else was the original stuff.

Everyone in a large, busy bike store was looking at, and admiring that Paramount. No one was looking at the new "mega-buck" carbon "wonder-bikes" sitting nearby.

There ought to be laws against "upgrading" any Paramount built before around 1980...the Asian-made Paramounts? With those, do whatever you want.

I dont like the friction shifting (bar end) I would consider going to downtube if I can find a period correct one. I much prefer the click typpe shift so I actually know my gear ratio in my head vs having to look down at my rear derailer. Did I mention that I would also be using this bike for racing as well. I really want a the bike to be of sexy 1972 Schwinn Paramount with more current shifting and wheel technology. And losing a couple pounds in the process wouldnt hurt. And btw it is nice to show up to a race and smoke guys in there $5000 cabon/titanium junk.

Steel is ReaL~!

I can appreciate the desire to show-up the guys riding carbon fiber, but I'm not understanding how "period" downtube shifters would not be friction shifters, while bar-cons are. Unless the minimal weight difference between downtube shifters and bar-cons is an issue, I would think bar-cons would be preferred by a racer, as you have both hands on the bars. What am I missing here?

Just to boil everyone's blood, heres MY Paramount that I savagely hacked to peices. And just to make everyone even more angry, its got a nice 105 crank on there these days. I know, it looks horrible doesn't it? And just to think, I actually ride it instead of hanging it on a wall.

I much prefer the click typpe shift so I actually know my gear ratio in my head vs having to look down at my rear derailer.

I'd say if you don't know what gear you're in without looking, you've got too many gears.

I much prefer the click typpe shift so I actually know my gear ratio in my head vs having to look down at my rear derailer.

I'd say if you don't know what gear you're in without looking, you've got too many gears.Single speeds rule!

Just to boil everyone's blood, heres MY Paramount that I savagely hacked to peices. And just to make everyone even more angry, its got a nice 105 crank on there these days. I know, it looks horrible doesn't it? And just to think, I actually ride it instead of hanging it on a wall.

nice bike. But for the record, I ride mine as well. 25 miles, just today (beautiful spring = long lunch...). The '73 gets me just about anywhere, just a little slower than my OCLV. But it does get to go in the house when it isn't being ridden...

Just to boil everyone's blood, heres MY Paramount that I savagely hacked to peices. And just to make everyone even more angry, its got a nice 105 crank on there these days. I know, it looks horrible doesn't it? And just to think, I actually ride it instead of hanging it on a wall.

I don't own a Paramount, and frankly have no desire to. Regardless, if you're implying that people who have nice-looking original bicycles don't ride them, I apologize for damaging your paradigm. Most folks I know/know of who appreciate vintage bicycles ride them. Certainly, some people love them so much that they keep them after their riding days are done, or after some structural cataclysm makes them un-roadworthy, and there are a very small number of bicycles that people treat as investments rather than functional vehicles, but that covers only a small minority.

I applaud you for having the energy to keep an old beauty on the road, and for riding it. But please don't imply that we who appreciate the original beauty of the lugged steel form are either unwilling to, or incabable of enjoying them whilst in the saddle.

It's funny everyone seems to have an opinion about modernizing the paramount, yet only a couple people actually have insight into what Im trying to do. I dont care that I should have the original equiptment. I bought this bike to ride, and ride how I see fit. If anyone has some real info for me please PM me thanks.

Although this goes against my better instinct (for ME at least)
here goes.
I'd say a racing 7 speed would be the way to go. If I had to spread the
frame (cold set) I'd go to 126 and not the 130 that is current fashion.
You can as suggested above get an older campy 8 speed setup that
will work with a 7 speed freewheel (or cassette). I believe that
suntour had a narrow spaced 7 speed freewheel (were all 7 speeds
actually ultra7's?). You could then have Ergo shifters
(use the dt shifter brazeons for the cable adjusters.
Buy/build new 7 speed wheelset and leave those nasty
tubular wheels to me.
all in all you'll need chainset, wheel/freewheel etc, RD and
the Brifters (these will be the main expense).

Marty

blasphemy: (or my newly reborn OLDER bike)
http://s94916384.onlinehome.us/fixie/DSC01463.JPG

It's funny everyone seems to have an opinion about modernizing the paramount, yet only a couple people actually have insight into what Im trying to do. I dont care that I should have the original equiptment. I bought this bike to ride, and ride how I see fit. If anyone has some real info for me please PM me thanks.

Maybe you should have posted in the Bicycle Mechanics forum instead.

The only important thing is that you build it like you want and put LOTS of miles on it. I love Paramounts - lusted after them in the 60's and 70's, now finally have a few. Whether it's a 70's P-13, an 80's with
Columbus tubes, or even a late 90's Match Paramount, they all ride lively and quick (to me).

When I ran across an '83 frame that had never been built up after a Waterford repaint, I grabbed it, put on new 9sp Dura-Ace with Campy Chorus calipers, and have put plenty of miles on it. I like it, think it looks great, and love the way it rides. Spreading the rear triangle a bit to accept the 130 axle is no big deal when I pop in a wheel. If I ever start to feel guilty, I'll just put Campy friction stuff back on and sooth my conscience. My rides are all up and downs out of Aspen, and indexed shifting feels soooo good.

I mean, they're just bikes - You can put it together a million different ways and just enjoy the ride.

Good luck finding the right combo -

Harry

It's funny everyone seems to have an opinion about modernizing the paramount, yet only a couple people actually have insight into what Im trying to do. I dont care that I should have the original equiptment. I bought this bike to ride, and ride how I see fit. If anyone has some real info for me please PM me thanks.
good luck with the refit, buddy. It's your bike and you should be able to set it up any way that suits you. Don't chuck the parts, someday you may have a change of heart. Just out of curiosity, though, why didn't you make this post to the mechanics forum?

good luck with the refit, buddy. It's your bike and you should be able to set it up any way that suits you. Don't chuck the parts, someday you may have a change of heart. Just out of curiosity, though, why didn't you make this post to the mechanics forum?

Probably didn't realize we are such retro-grouches here. :)

If you really want to go click-click, here's what you should do:

Shelve your Campy freewheel, shifters, and derailleur. Put them in Ziploc baggies with dessicant packs in an inert gas environment. Or sell 'em on Ebay.

What is your spacing at the rear?

If 120mm, replace your current freewheel with a Suntour Ultra-6. The Ultra-6 has about the same cog spacing as a 7 or 8 speed rig.

Put on a Shimano derailleur.

Use Shimano 7 or 8 speed indexed shifters. People who have actually done this say that it works pretty good, but the tooth shapes on the Suntour freewheel are not as sophisticated as the ramps on the modern cassettes, so the shifting isn't quite as quick. But they say IT WORKS PRETTY GOOD.





Then, when you want to sell your Paramount or you are converted to the retro religion, replace the Japanese stuff with the original Campy.



If you already have 126mm spacing, then use a 7-speed freewheel instead of the Ultra-6.