Advocacy & Safety - Bike lanes

Did you intentionally ride up behind the stopped police vehicle to take the picture? If not why were you not in the passing lane long before the pic was snapped? Giving yourself this little space to negotiate a merge right is asking for trouble.
Al

This quote should explain it:


at this time there will be a constant stream of cars passing me on my right, going approx. double my speed. My survival depends on staying out of thier way.

This quote should explain it:
To me that quote explains why one must give more distance and time, not less, to negotiate a merge. As soon as I saw the BL blocked, probably a few hundred feet before, I'd stick my right arm out and look back until a motorist slowed and let me merge.
Al

To me that quote explains why one must give more distance and time, not less, to negotiate a merge. As soon as I saw the BL blocked, probably a few hundred feet before, I'd stick my right arm out and look back until a motorist slowed and let me merge.
Al

To someone used to negotiating merges in traffic, your conclusion makes sense. To someone who thinks motorists will run him over simply for being in their way attempting to put himself in front of traffic for any amount of time is a death wish.

Did you intentionally ride up behind the stopped police vehicle to take the picture? If not why were you not in the passing lane long before the pic was snapped? Giving yourself this little space to negotiate a merge right is asking for trouble.
Al
Well, I had to stop at the traffic light anyway, and that's when I decided to take the picture. So I stayed in the bike lane in order to be out of the way when the light went green. So you are quite right: normally I would have stopped in the next lane to the right, giving myself plenty of room until I was past the parked car. Instead I stayed in the bike lane to take the picture. Taking pictures with a cell phone while riding in traffic is REALLY asking for trouble....
Rudi

Bike lanes are nice to have if your bike is going slow, but let's not forget that most streets have a speed limit of 30MPH. A well trained cyclist can reach 30MPH and needs to take the lane, since bicycle lanes are meant for the slow bikes, and aren't suited for speeds over 18MPH.

I don't believe that bike lanes should be mandatory. Better enforcement of speed limits would be more productive. Motorists don't show much common sense when racing their machines to the next red light, only to be passed by the bicycles they just passed.

well, first thing, you guys were in the right. However, if it were me, a car that kind of wandered in the lane would have peaked my interest because passing a car on the right is dangerous here in NJ.

Here, the bike lanes are used by drivers to make a right turn at lights or if someone is blocking a lane to make a left turn, drivers here will swerve around the car using the bike lane. (I really don't think they look before doing it either...)

You can never pass a car on the right hand side without going slow and watching very carefully...
I actually believe that the "vehicular approach" is safer when approaching an intersection or a car making a left turn.

I have personally been run over now from behind in the bike lane 6 times, I just recently recovered from another one. I think one of the key issues is that people are typically so caught up in their little world especially when driving that they are oblivious to the outside world. It really doesnt matter what you wear, what you do etc., it just happens. Now do I agree with these idiots that blab on their cell phones, pass you from behind then cut you off.....Oh Hell No!! I really wish their was a solution, the only safe place to ride is on those "segregated bike lanes" which completely separate you from traffic. Alas that's not condusive to efficient, enjoyable riding. To bad we dont have the same situation as europe, cycling is embraced as a typical form of travel......as the price of gas keeps rising maybe we'll eventually get a clue here in the U.S.A. To the hit and run driver that took me out from behind while I was in the bike lane...K>M>A!!! I suffered a major concussion, fractured skull, broke my jaw in 5 places and fractured my knee in 3, and yet "no one saw a thing" *sigh* Oh well Im back on the road again and will never stop, its just part of the deal I suppose.

I have a question, being that I am a newbie...

you have a 2 lane road that has a bike lane on both sides.
you are approaching a long line of cars doing "stop and go"'s due to traffic congestion at a light up ahead. the line of cars is about 15 to 20. the cars going right will sometimes pull out into the bike lane and drive up to the light to make their turn (could be anywhere in that 15 - 20 cars here...).

so what do you guys do? do you wait in the line of traffic? do you filter up to the light?

e0richt; I use this approach: If i am to pass the cars, i do it on the right side ( closest to the pavement). I then stand at the redlights slightly before the first car ( my rear wheel at the cars frontwheel) . By standing at that spot i have made the most for the cars to see me,and second,the rightturning car can´t turn right before i have pedaled away.
No i would not "filter" or go crisscrooss over the lanes. You can never know if the driver(s) sees you,so i count on that they don´t.

In St. Louis and many of it's surrounding communities, many of the bike lanes have curbs separating the bike lane from the roadway. This keeps people from parking on the bikeway, stopping thereon, using the bikeway as a passing or turning lane, etcetera. Why don't more cities do this?

I'd just be happy if the BLs that are implemented next to parked cars had an 8 foot parking with a 5 foot wide BL or 7 foot parking with a 6 foot wide BL. That one extra foot would make a huge difference, since the current minimum standard of 7 foot parking and 5 foot BL is not enough to accommodate the parked full size trucks and SUVs with little or any safety margin for staying out of the range of door openings. I had two "dooring" incidents this week alone, the first wasn't anything to worry about, it dealt with a inconsiderate motorist leaving both doors of his vehicle wide open obstructing almost totally the BL and sidewalk. I had over a city block's worth of time to plan around that one. The second one was a more dicey, since the young girl who threw open her door, did it 30 feet in front of me, luckily I had just scanned the rearview, there were no rear approching traffic for blocks, and able to swerve and miss her door by a foot or so.

In St. Louis and many of it's surrounding communities, many of the bike lanes have curbs separating the bike lane from the roadway. This keeps people from parking on the bikeway, stopping thereon, using the bikeway as a passing or turning lane, etcetera. Why don't more cities do this?

Think about it. At every intersection, the curb will need to be cut away to allow motorist traffic to turn right across the bike lane and for cyclist traffic to leave the bike lane to make a left turn. Unless you put in a seperate system of lights to keep motorist and cyclist traffic from crossing at the same time through these openings (meaning, motorists and cyclists are never going through the intersection at the same time), you haven't solved any problems and have argubly made things worse by confusing right of way at intersections (the worst place to do so).

Also, most states have a law that right turns need to be made from as close as practicable to the right hand edge of the roadway as possible, meaning that bike lanes are to be driven in to make right turns. Only seriously confused states like Oregon prevent motorists from ever driving in bike lanes.

Try reading this

[URL= http://www.trafitec.dk/pub/Road%20safety%20and%20percieved%20risk%20of%20cycle%20tracks%20and%20lanes%20in%20Copenhagen.pdf[/URL]

I say no to bike lanes, mutual respect and obbey the laws....we are not toys.......................

This article Painful crash turns bicyclist into activist Critical Mass convert (http://www.startribune.com/357/story/1424269.html) came up in my news feed this morning.

Nearly the same thing happened to me on my way home Friday. I was riding cautiously and able to avoid the car by swerving into an open parking space and mashing my airhorn. I was next to her passenger window when she looked over, saw me, registered the noise (115 db!), came out of her cager coma and slammed the brakes.

This woman had just pulled out of the post office in front of me, you'd think she might have remembered that I was in the bike lane 2 blocks later. When I started to pass her, she was stopped in traffic with no turn signal on, but just as I came along side her she started to move and pulled into the bike lane (to use it as an extended right turn lane). This is the second such incident I've experienced in recent weeks. 2 blocks later, another driver almost turned right into me - again, I had passed him while he was stopped (no turn signal, no lane position indication - I look for these things), then he came up beside me and just started turning right onto a side street. He stopped when I screamed into the open passenger window.

This is a well-used bike lane on a road that received a road diet treatment (http://www.contextsensitivesolutions.org/content/case_studies/edgewater-drive/) in 2001. There is no reason for a motorist to be caught off guard by a cyclist using this bike lane... except for complete lack of attention. And yet, that is exactly the situation on this road. I was hit here 3 years ago. The driver was at fault and charged with the accident, but I have since prevented the same accident countless times because I am more alert and aware of the circumstances. When there is traffic, I keep my speed down and am prepared to stop, if necessary, before every side street and commercial driveway. I know if there is a break in traffic, someone is likely to turn left in front of me. I know if I pass a moving car before an intersection, I can get right-hooked (and they're not going to make it any easier for me by using their turn signals!). But conflicts are not just for intersections, we have the no-warning, mid-block bike lane incursions to watch for as well.

Sometimes a road without a bike lane is a better choice. Although the residential roads pose their own issues with stop signs - and the drivers who roll through them without looking.

What concerned me in the aforementioned article was that it said the cops did not charge the motorist with the accident. Why the heck not? And if the motorist is not charged, but is clearly at fault, does that make it more difficult for the cyclist get compensated for property loss and medical expenses? When I was hit and the motorist was charged, his insurance company promptly compensated me for damage to my bike and body. I did not need (nor did I wish) to pursue compensation in the courts.

We definitely have to take responsibility for ourselves. In certain traffic conditions, it's suicidal to ride fast down a bike lane. As exhilarating as it would feel to blow by them in their traffic hell, it's asking for trouble.

I don't see what the problem with bike lanes is. There are some excellent examples of good practice, e.g. http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/

I don't see what the problem with bike lanes is. There are some excellent examples of good practice, e.g. http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/

Fantastic stuff. Are planners competing with each other to gain the recognition?

Al

I don't see what the problem with bike lanes is. There are some excellent examples of good practice, e.g. http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month/
Wow. These are some very innovative designs. I'm impressed.

The truth of bike lanes is that cages see it as an invitation to try to squeeze between you and other objects when they would otherwise not. When I am in area where a car would try that, I move over into the lane and make them slow. I have been struck by the mirror of a ****** racer (short bus) trying to get between me, and oncoming traffic trying to manuver around lawn equipment. I was pissed but from there on I learned my lesson.

No legal action was taken from that incident.

I have a question, being that I am a newbie...

you have a 2 lane road that has a bike lane on both sides.
you are approaching a long line of cars doing "stop and go"'s due to traffic congestion at a light up ahead. the line of cars is about 15 to 20. the cars going right will sometimes pull out into the bike lane and drive up to the light to make their turn (could be anywhere in that 15 - 20 cars here...).

so what do you guys do? do you wait in the line of traffic? do you filter up to the light?

I keep one hand on my brake (when not riding fixed), and one hand on my trusty u-lock. No guts, no glory lol.

...Also, most states have a law that right turns need to be made from as close as practicable to the right hand edge of the roadway as possible, meaning that bike lanes are to be driven in to make right turns. Only seriously confused states like Oregon prevent motorists from ever driving in bike lanes.

The thing is is that most bike lanes (at least in my area) turn to broken white lines near intersections for that. Cars aren't supposed to cross the solid white line, so if you are struck behind the solid line, it is their fault unless you are being stupid.

edit-in florida, at least.

;5312380']The thing is is that most bike lanes (at least in my area) turn to broken white lines near intersections for that. Cars aren't supposed to cross the solid white line, so if you are struck behind the solid line, all the more leverage in a lawsuit. Hehehe...
Please cite the law that makes it illegal for motorists to cross a solid white bike lane stripe when making a midblock right turn (say into a driveway or mall entrance).

Of course, if a cyclist is in the bike lane, they need to yield to him, but that applies whether the stripe is solid or dashed.
I don't know of any law for which the application varies based on whether the bike lane stripe is solid or dashed. Do you?

I meant for Florida. Sorry about that.

I did some research. My justification for that law is from the Florida Driver's Handbook: Solid White Line-A solid white line marks the right edge of the roadway or #separates lanes of traffic moving in the same direction#... You should not cross the line unless to avoid a hazard.”, and aren't just to mark a shoulder in floridaland, a bicycle is defined as a vehicle propelled solely by human power, but it is still a vehicle. All intersections turn lanes, and major commercial throughfares (anywhere you can legally make a left turn in to) that have bicycle lanes sport broken white lines, which are only to be crossed when safe, and upon signalling.
There are statutes backing this, but I must get to a computer. Much easier to put them in.

You got to consider that Florida has some of the (not the) highest vehicle vs bicycle in the country, and is much different from the rest of the country in regards to laws.

Oh, and kudos on your signature, HelmetHead.

The country differs by jurisdiction, and Florida is way different from the rest of the country (as I said). I know only of it.

Best wishes to your wife. I hope she is fine. Give her some time, she can get past her fear if she wants to enough.


so I was pretty much oblivious on this issue (as an everyday commuter who rides on streets with and without bike lanes with no accidents so far) but today my opinion has been swayed.

I was riding with my wife on Main Street (Santa Monica, Socal). We were at a tail end of a ride and main street with it's bike lanes "should" have been the most harmless part of the ride, sunny day, we're in our bright bike clothes and ofcourse the evil F$%$$%king bike lane.

In in the left lane a car passes us then drives slows, kind of drifting into the bike lane. I shout "BIKE LANE" and the lady heads back to her lane. My wife then proceeds and is just beside her car when this lady moves into the bike lane, hitting my wife and knocing her down. I thank all known deities that my wife doesn't seem to have any major injuries (we're headed to the doctor now) and I must admit I was a bit torn about how to react. On the one hand I wanted to beat the crap out of this lady who says she didn't see us (I guess bright orange and yellow jerseys and me screaming at her is easy to tune out, on the other she had kids in her car, seemed truly apologetic, apparently she rode as well as had an accident last december which just seemed to make this whole incident even more enraging.

The bike is headed to the bike shop to check and with any luck my wife will walk away with no injuries but outside all this I just feel so bad as she literally just learned to ride a bike in August, did the Solvang half century in March and now she's afraid to ride a bike again...

I just hate all cars and bike lanes right now, thanks for bearing thru this rant.

904, there is no doubt that solid lines are supposed to discourage crossing, I'm just saying I don't know of any law that makes it illegal to do so, in FL or any other state.

In CA motorists are required to merge into bike lanes before turning right, and are allowed to do it up to 200' prior to an intersection, but rarely does the stripe change from solid to dashed for a full 200' prior to even a major intertersection. From midblock right turns it usually remains solid the whole way.

so I was pretty much oblivious on this issue (as an everyday commuter who rides on streets with and without bike lanes with no accidents so far) but today my opinion has been swayed.

I was riding with my wife on Main Street (Santa Monica, Socal). We were at a tail end of a ride and main street with it's bike lanes "should" have been the most harmless part of the ride, sunny day, we're in our bright bike clothes and ofcourse the evil F$%$$%king bike lane.

In in the left lane a car passes us then drives slows, kind of drifting into the bike lane. I shout "BIKE LANE" and the lady heads back to her lane. My wife then proceeds and is just beside her car when this lady moves into the bike lane, hitting my wife and knocing her down. I thank all known deities that my wife doesn't seem to have any major injuries (we're headed to the doctor now) and I must admit I was a bit torn about how to react. On the one hand I wanted to beat the crap out of this lady who says she didn't see us (I guess bright orange and yellow jerseys and me screaming at her is easy to tune out, on the other she had kids in her car, seemed truly apologetic, apparently she rode as well as had an accident last december which just seemed to make this whole incident even more enraging.

The bike is headed to the bike shop to check and with any luck my wife will walk away with no injuries but outside all this I just feel so bad as she literally just learned to ride a bike in August, did the Solvang half century in March and now she's afraid to ride a bike again...

I just hate all cars and bike lanes right now, thanks for bearing thru this rant.

I'm sorry about you're wife, I always look for cyclists when I drive being one myself, but I agree there is so much careless driving out there I take sidewalks as yes you could get a ticket, but mountain bikes tend to get away with it easyer.

904, there is no doubt that solid lines are supposed to discourage crossing, I'm just saying I don't know of any law that makes it illegal to do so, in FL or any other state.

In CA motorists are required to merge into bike lanes before turning right, and are allowed to do it up to 200' prior to an intersection, but rarely does the stripe change from solid to dashed for a full 200' prior to even a major intertersection. From midblock right turns it usually remains solid the whole way.

Like I said, Florida is odd.

In AZ it doesn't matter if the bike lane stripe is dashed or not, it is still defined as a bike lane and therefore illegal to drive a motor vehicle in, except to cross it.

Al

Great day !
In accordance with S. Fl. 'Total Ped-Vehicle' policy, more bikelanes
are being sprayed on my route today !! :D

Great day !
In accordance with S. Fl. 'Total Ped-Vehicle' policy, more bikelanes
are being sprayed on my route today !! :D

Are they just spraying a bike lane stripe? Or respraying all the lanes so as to make the effective outside lane plus bike lane greater than the width of the outside lane was before?

But they are not adding any pavement space it seems.

Al

I should have elaborated....The total ped-vehicle policy of FL states whenever
roadwork is done, bikelanes and ped crossing MUST be added into the
design-construction of them. The road is wider to accomodate the lanes.
Yeah, we have dopes who sway into them, but you must keep in mind, these
drivers were actually ranked the worst in the country. A trip home on Friday
afternoon is a game of Rollerball....absolute insanity. Most people stay out
of them and I appreciate a spot that is a little less dangerous than 20" to the
left of me.

I should have elaborated....The total ped-vehicle policy of FL states whenever
roadwork is done, bikelanes and ped crossing MUST be added into the
design-construction of them. The road is wider to accomodate the lanes.
Yeah, we have dopes who sway into them, but you must keep in mind, these
drivers were actually ranked the worst in the country. A trip home on Friday
afternoon is a game of Rollerball....absolute insanity. Most people stay out
of them and I appreciate a spot that is a little less dangerous than 20" to the
left of me.

I'm to tears. Its so funny because its true.

I've always considered it to be their little game of 'kill the cyclist'.

Those whom I ride with have told me that I ride a)too far and b)too aggressively.
I tell them that I am sick of getting pushed into a curb because I didn't leave myself an out, and I am willing to use every inch of that road to do so.

As mentioned by others, I like bike lanes in high speed, high traffic areas. My commute has what was once rural roads. The area has been developed, and now these rural roads are fairly high traffic roads. Sometimes I have trouble finding an opening to make a left turn.

At first, I didn't mind the fact that there were no bike lanes in the 50-60 MPH roads, because it was easy for cars to go around me. But as traffic increased over the years, more and more, cars and trucks would not wait for the oncoming traffic to clear, and would come very close to me. Riding was much more stressful. Finally, about 4 years ago, they redid the road, and added wide bike lanes. Wow, the ride is so much more enjoyable! The other thing that has happened, is that a lot more people are now commuting.

As mentioned by others, I like bike lanes in high speed, high traffic areas. My commute has what was once rural roads. The area has been developed, and now these rural roads are fairly high traffic roads. Sometimes I have trouble finding an opening to make a left turn.

At first, I didn't mind the fact that there were no bike lanes in the 50-60 MPH roads, because it was easy for cars to go around me. But as traffic increased over the years, more and more, cars and trucks would not wait for the oncoming traffic to clear, and would come very close to me. Riding was much more stressful. Finally, about 4 years ago, they redid the road, and added wide bike lanes. Wow, the ride is so much more enjoyable! The other thing that has happened, is that a lot more people are now commuting.
When they "redid" the road, did they just add a bike lane stripe to existing pavement, or did they widen the pavement and/or redo the striping to widen the outside lane, and then add the bike lane stripe.

Imagine the current road exactly as it is, but without the bike lane stripe. How would that be?

As mentioned by others, I like bike lanes in high speed, high traffic areas. My commute has what was once rural roads. The area has been developed, and now these rural roads are fairly high traffic roads. Sometimes I have trouble finding an opening to make a left turn.

At first, I didn't mind the fact that there were no bike lanes in the 50-60 MPH roads, because it was easy for cars to go around me. But as traffic increased over the years, more and more, cars and trucks would not wait for the oncoming traffic to clear, and would come very close to me. Riding was much more stressful. Finally, about 4 years ago, they redid the road, and added wide bike lanes. Wow, the ride is so much more enjoyable! The other thing that has happened, is that a lot more people are now commuting.

Since local roads have no bike lanes I was sitting on the fence on this debate but after watching the vid on Copenhagen and Beijing it's pretty clear you want dedicated bike lanes if you want to increase bike ridership.

I like how Copenhagen allows city bus to stop on the bus lane instead of the bike lane like in Beijing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNRRyzfdY08&feature=related

Look and weep (with laughter)

http://www.warringtoncyclecampaign.co.uk/facility-of-the-month

Bike lanes/paths are such a good thing, are they not?

"In post #1246 I wrote about the effect of bike lanes to instill, propogate, advance and reinforce the thinking held by many motorists (and cyclists, for that matter) to think cyclists don't belong in the regular traffic lanes of a roadway"

You're a one trick pony on this point. There is more than one kind of road for cars also. Some are limited access, one way, divided, etc... The existance of more than one road type is simply dealing with the reality of there being different conditions, and even skill levels to respond to out there. Do car drivers complain that limited access is a form of social exclusion?

I don't doubt there are people who see bikes in lanes just as you suggest, but so what, some cyclists really don't belong on the road with cars, and occasionally they ask for their own place.

I prefer no lanes because there are less zoned out bicycling competitors out there. I don't want to cycle in an environment that looks like China where the streets are full of dodling bikes. Cars are my friend and I try to keep up. But there are a lot of other agendas out there, even including some like "green" that have nothing to do with transportation at all. In my city they use bike lanes for traffic calming, nothing to do with cyclists, and I have rarely seen anyone in one. There are all kinds of silly, and good reasons for lanes.

According to traffic planners from a handful of west European nations speaking at a Velo-Cities conference back in the '90s, painted bike lanes don't inspire confidence in the average commuter/shopper/tripper and therefore this person does not use a bicycle for those purposes.

Personally, I don't much enjoy weaving in and out of slow cyclists on a dedicated cycle route. I feel fairly comfortable cycling on the open road. But I think that for the majority of cyclists dedicated cycle routes are the best idea - as long as cyclists are still allowed to use the roads as well (Cycling in Germany one often gets rudely honked at by the drivers because there's a cycle route in the vicinity. But being an uninformed tourist, I didn't know).

Getting motorists to change their attitude is difficult. Look at the government campaigns to change attitudes to seatbelt use, and drink-driving, and now cellphone/texting. Getting motorists to always see cyclists is going to be nearly impossible, and there will always be the radical fringe of motorists that hate cyclists.

For the average person, cars and bicycles don't mix. The cyclist always comes off by far the worst in a collision. I think we should be requesting that cities plan for dedicated cycle routes, rather than the lip service of painting lines on roads.

Bike lanes as always are a great subject. Here is Omaha, NE we have to ride with traffic and we have quite a few inattentive drivers here. So in my English Comp paper, I am going to use the addition of bike lanes to our city streets as a topic. I would welcome any advice, pro and cons that would assist me in this. And it also would be nice not to ALWAYS take the bike path as it adds 25 minutes to a ride that starts at 4:45am as it is.

.. Here is Omaha, NE we have to ride with traffic and we have quite a few inattentive drivers here. So in my English Comp paper, I am going to use the addition of bike lanes to our city streets as a topic...

Bike lanes *ARE* riding with traffic.

Bike lanes *ARE* riding with traffic.

Shhhhhh..you'll scare all the Portlanders off their bikes :D

Bike lanes as always are a great subject. Here is Omaha, NE we have to ride with traffic and we have quite a few inattentive drivers here. So in my English Comp paper, I am going to use the addition of bike lanes to our city streets as a topic. I would welcome any advice, pro and cons that would assist me in this. And it also would be nice not to ALWAYS take the bike path as it adds 25 minutes to a ride that starts at 4:45am as it is.

Spend some time in A&S and you'll be bound to come across many pros and cons of bike lanes. I'll admit that there are a few pros but my list is generally far different than many others' lists, at least in the "pro" department.

For the con list, spend some time thinking about just how much protection a white stripe on the road can afford to a cyclist in the presence of an inattentive (drifting) motorist and how much that same stripe can help at intersections where most accidents occur. Another bit of food for thought is how the false sense of security offered by a bike lane stripe can adversely affect a cyclist's safety (depending on how large that sense of security is [note that there are many other things which can give a false sense of security too]).