My commute is safer by car than bike

[noisebeam]

This has been on my mind for a while. This has nothing to do with cycling vs. car statistics which deal with a large general auto and bike population. This has to do with me (and probably others ?) and my skills and environment.

I speculate and feel confident in this speculation that I would be safer (but not neccessarily heathier) if I drove to/from work every day instead of cycling.

Why? I would use the same roads, the same time of day, with a similar appropriate focus on safety when I drive as when I cycle. Just as when cycling, when driving I don't speed, I keep aware of surroundings, I drive defensively, follow the rules. Just as when cycling I am very unlikely to be involved in an at fault accident when driving. The incident that will cause an accident will more likely be another driver doing something illegal and or dangerous.

But on a bike I have factors against my safety: Speed differential between other traffic, lower visibility to other drivers, more dangerous left turns & merging, no steel frame around me with air bags to protect me from a car hitting me, no ability to accerate out of a dangerous situation. On a bike the only advantage is maneuverabilty, but this is of limited benefit with traffic on ones left and a curb, or in the case of a merge traffic, on ones right.

Do others feel this way?

Al

[HereNT]

I feel the opposite, but I don't drive. When I'm in a car with someone else driving, I'm always kind of freaked out.

As far as advantages on a bike, you also have greater visibility - you can see more of what's going on around you.

[noisebeam]

I feel the opposite, but I don't drive. When I'm in a car with someone else driving, I'm always kind of freaked out.
I understand as you are not in control and are putting your safety into the skills and awareness of someone who could lack them. I am specifically comparing me driving to me cycling.


As far as advantages on a bike, you also have greater visibility - you can see more of what's going on around you.
I don't find this is the case as a practical benefit. I can see everything around me I need to see to drive safely. If I can't temporarily see a part of the road (i.e. blind spot to my rear left/right) I won't merge into it. But the combination of car windows and mirrors basically eliminates these blind spots.

Al

[webist]

Can't say as I feel the same way you do.

[noisebeam]

Can't say as I feel the same way you do.
I'm surprised. What makes you feel safer on a bike? (No intent for arguement, just wanted to learn others experience as maybe it can help me)

Al

[Stubacca]

I understand what you're saying, and I have to say I feel the same way.

Why?

If I'm involved in an accident in the car on the way to work, it'll almost certainly be a fender bender. I'll get out, exchange insurance details etc, and the worst I'm likely to suffer is whiplash.

If I'm involved in an accident on the bike, I'll most likely be injured - skin taken off, something broken, something strained etc.

Still, I'd rather ride. :D

[rnagaoka]

As far as advantages on a bike, you also have greater visibility - you can see more of what's going on around you.

I feel the same way. Your senses--sight, hearing--are more aware since there's no insulation between you and the road/traffic. I think the more you ride, the more you become "tuned into" your environment...and develop a sixth sense about what the cagers might do. The only thing that makes me nervous, is trusting that the traffic behind me will see me and do the right thing.

Strange, but nowadays when I drive--on average once a week--I'm actually more aprehensive and stressed about getting into an accident than when I ride my bike.

My biking philosophy is that if I ever get hit by a car, I'm going to blame myself for not taking evasive action...even if it is the car's fault. (This excludes drunks and psychos, of course ) It's kept me out of trouble so far. ;)

[Roody]

I guess it's what you're used to. Like rnagaoka, I dread driving and love cycling. It used to be the other way around.

Everyone should remember that the "safety" of a car is illusory. Even at moderate speeds, there is not enough steel to protect you. Airbags and seatbelts help some, but people still get very mangled in low speed collisions. We fool ourselves into thinking that driving is a safe activity--it is not.

My 2 best friends were in a car wreck in January-- going about 30 MPH, they spun out on black ice and hit a tree. One friend is finally able to start rehab today--14 weeks after the accident. That kind of accident could happen to anybody! They were going to the drugstore less than a mile from the house on a sunny afternoon. I wish they had ridden their bikes.

[kf5nd]

I think it's so highly route- and conditions- dependent, it's impossible to make a blanket determination as to which is safer - cycling or motoring

Having said that, bear in mind that a significant fraction of motor fatalities are single-vehicle crashes, no other vehicles involved. Especially with the tippy SUVs. Cager hits curb, SUV flips (my wife saw one of these). Cager wanders off of road while talking on cell phone, overcorrects back into main lane, SUV flips. Cager misses curve, slams into tree or post.

You aren't exposed to these risks. Aren't you lucky?

And you DO have to take health into consideration. Health improvement is part of your total risk reduction plan.

[Dahon.Steve]

But on a bike I have factors against my safety: Speed differential between other traffic, lower visibility to other drivers, more dangerous left turns & merging, no steel frame around me with air bags to protect me from a car hitting me, no ability to accerate out of a dangerous situation. On a bike the only advantage is maneuverabilty, but this is of limited benefit with traffic on ones left and a curb, or in the case of a merge traffic, on ones right.

Do others feel this way?

Al

Let's just say, if I had to bike 5 or 10 miles in horrendous traffic, I might agree with you. However, I only bike less than 10 blocks to a train station where my billion dollar electric light rail waits for me every morning. I would feel just as scared in the morning if I had to drive 65 mph on a free way to get to work so as long as someone else is doing the driving, my commute is practically stress free.

[noisebeam]

I think it's so highly route- and conditions- dependent, it's impossible to make a blanket determination as to which is safer - cycling or motoring

Having said that, bear in mind that a significant fraction of motor fatalities are single-vehicle crashes, no other vehicles involved. Especially with the tippy SUVs. Cager hits curb, SUV flips (my wife saw one of these). Cager wanders off of road while talking on cell phone, overcorrects back into main lane, SUV flips. Cager misses curve, slams into tree or post.

You aren't exposed to these risks. Aren't you lucky?

And you DO have to take health into consideration. Health improvement is part of your total risk reduction plan.
To be clear: I am not making a blanket statement that one is in general safer than the other. My statement is that I believe that me driving my car on my commute is safer than me cycling my commute on my bike. This is a very specific statement, not a blanket statement.
Just like I do my best to be a safe cyclist I do my best to be a safe driver - I am unlikely to flip my car, wander off road etc., Just as I am unlikely to ride by bike off the road or corner it at excessive speed, but I and others are not immune to solo cycling accidents, in fact on a recent poll here I noted that a large number of cycling accidents were solo events. Again, I am comparing me to me on different forms of transport.
As to health, I don't discount it, but it is not part of this comparision as I would continue to cycle and/or run, exercise if I didn't commute.

I am only asking if others feel that their are less safe cycling their commute than they are driving it. I think its a valid and interesting question. Please also don't assume that because I feel the risk is higher I would stop cycling my commute.

Al

[John E]

Yes, we have statistics which roughly equate a lawful vehicular bicyclist's risk with that of an average motorist. The problem with this analysis is that many of us are safer-than-average motorists, often driving safer-than-average cars (my VW Passat wagon, for example). I fully understand noisebeam's statement, but we need to factor in the physical, emotional, and mental health benefits of cycling (which I love) and disbenefits of driving (which I no longer enjoy, due to traffic congestion).

[kb0tnv]

I believe it depends on your route. I stopped riding a particular part of my commute because of the crazy 40+ mph drivers in the morning. I found a quite 25mph residential route to take. I found I could take that same (40+mph) route just fine on my return trip because the traffic numbers were lower. Depends on your comfort level. I hate driving because now I know I have to watch out for the same idiots that ride the wrong way while cycling. I make sure to look both ways instead of just to the left when making a right. I drive slower even on the hwy...plus I heard going 55 mph saves on gas according to AAA ;0)

I have found areas on my commute that I won't do on bad weather (rainy) days. I try to take areas with less hills.

Keep Cycling,

Jeff

[AndrewP]

Safety is not an issue that determines whether I ride or drive. The weather, or early morning meetings or evening appointments have a bearing on my mode of transport. However that doesnt stop me having irrational fears, like will the bridge that I am riding under collapse while a train passes over. Everyone has these fears, but dont let them govern your behaviour.

[noisebeam]

I believe it depends on your route. I stopped riding a particular part of my commute because of the crazy 40+ mph drivers in the morning. I found a quite 25mph residential route to take.
Could you drive the 25mph route to make the commute while driving even safer? (Maybe not for others using this residential road, but likely for you.)

Al

[noisebeam]

Safety is not an issue that determines whether I ride or drive. .... However that doesnt stop me having irrational fears, .... Everyone has these fears, but dont let them govern your behaviour.
While safety is not the only decision factor, it certainly has to be one. For example if the only way to cycle to work involved shoulderless 65mph roads with a high curb on very busy roads it could be considered unsafe to cycle and driving (or bus, etc.) would have to be the chosen mode of transport. So there is a cut off point where a commute becomes to risky to cycle - fortunately this is not the case for me and for most others.

These are not irrational fears like a bridge collapsing. Without looking up the stats I am confident that the chance of a lawful and defensive driver being involved in a traffic accident are quite a bit much higher than having a bridge fall on you. Around the office I hear about others being involved in accidents - traffic accidents are real possibilities.

I also don't think this is an irrational concern (I would not call it a fear in my case) as I encounter close calls regularly and I ride in a very vehicular manner - I still get very close high speed passing, left hooks, etc. - far more close calls that I get while driving the same route.

I enjoy cycle commuting emensely and would find it very painful to stop. One of my motivations for starting this thread is to work out thoughts on the possibility that I am so addicted to cycle commuting that I turn a blind eye to the risks vs. me driving my commute instead.

Al

[pseudobrit]

I think it's so highly route- and conditions- dependent, it's impossible to make a blanket determination as to which is safer - cycling or motoring

Bingo.

I work 3rd shift and the road I'd have to ride in on is decidedly unsafe for nighttime cycling. Many high speed blind turns and no shoulder.

[HiYoSilver]

Noisebeam,

Yes, bike riding is risker behavior in terms of being the object of another's foolishness. No, it is safer than only sitting in car and vegging out on fast food.

So it's just a matter of finding areas to ride where you are within your comfort zone and avoiding areas that macho riders would go for but are outside your comfort zone. Key is to do in according to your goals and wishes. I love motorcycle riding much much more than biking but finally gave it up because of the safety aspect, well combined with no real gain other than the joy of riding. With biking I have some real health benefits to counter act the fear of accidents.

Bottom line, we're all going to die some day. How do you want to live your days here? If riding a bike helps you enjoy life more, do it. On those days or those routes where riding a bike is just too much outside your comfort zone, find another venue for your interests and don't feel guilty about setting your boundaries for comfort and safety.

All safety == no joy. All joy == no safety. The fun part is finding and adjusting the right balance.

[HiYoSilver]

Opps, forgot. A key safetly decision is the timing of the commute. I try to avoid the 8:00am commute and the 4:00 or 5:00 pm commutes, because there are too many nutso drivers at that time. They either don't have enough coffee yet, or too much anticipation of the party life. Just a simple thing like adjusting commute times by 30 minutes, makes a huge difference in the accident risks.

[geeklpc1985]

Driving would be safter, but I still will ride, today on the way in I was also hit by a bus in the Right Turn, Parking, Bikcycles Lane, on Park St. (Madison, WI) she was weaving back and forth in two lanes, F***** up B****, but that the first bus I every cused out. But she was too far away to hear me.

[genec]

This has been on my mind for a while. This has nothing to do with cycling vs. car statistics which deal with a large general auto and bike population. This has to do with me (and probably others ?) and my skills and environment.

I speculate and feel confident in this speculation that I would be safer (but not neccessarily heathier) if I drove to/from work every day instead of cycling.

Why? I would use the same roads, the same time of day, with a similar appropriate focus on safety when I drive as when I cycle. Just as when cycling, when driving I don't speed, I keep aware of surroundings, I drive defensively, follow the rules. Just as when cycling I am very unlikely to be involved in an at fault accident when driving. The incident that will cause an accident will more likely be another driver doing something illegal and or dangerous.

But on a bike I have factors against my safety: Speed differential between other traffic, lower visibility to other drivers, more dangerous left turns & merging, no steel frame around me with air bags to protect me from a car hitting me, no ability to accerate out of a dangerous situation. On a bike the only advantage is maneuverabilty, but this is of limited benefit with traffic on ones left and a curb, or in the case of a merge traffic, on ones right.

Do others feel this way?

Al


Yeah, unfortunately... My feelings come from a couple areas where the motorists get bunched up and start to get a bit unrational... I feel that their judgement gets thrown out the window at that point, as they go into an "anything goes" mode. Also my current route goes through several areas that are under construction, and the road is just in bad shape... I could only ride a fat tire bike in some of these areas. A lot of my feelings come from traffic density too. I find I am quite happy riding in lower density/lower traffic areas...

On the other hand, I also feel that as a cyclist you tend to develop that 6th sense from exposure to the environment, that helps you avoid accidents... this same sense also tends to make you a better driver, as you look longer, wider and tend to spot the danger zones better.

I do find however that I am constantly shocked by seeing so many motorists with very poor driving habits. I tend to spot them early, and as a passenger with my wife, I will often comment on what is about to happen, and we usually end up shaking our heads in disbelief... "Yes indeed, that driver just did that... can you believe it!"

Currently I am not commuting, as frankly I wasn't getting enough exercise... too many stops and too much congested traffic made me commute cautiously... it was like just riding from block to block, and the joy of riding just wasn't there. I was riding in a VC manner, lest anyone thing that my riding style might have made a difference in my commute... but the density of traffic with the lights and intersections often meant I was just doing a ton of stop and go too. (and we all know what a joy it is to constantly stop and start on a bike.)

As others have mentioned, this is very area and route specific... so while some may be commuting on wonderful tree lined lanes, some cyclist are having to face 45-55 MPH traffic on poorly repaired streets... so obviously the situation is different for each of us.

Currently I am riding on this beautiful bike path where I just open up and do long high speed runs... hitting and holding 20+MPH for miles... it has really brought the joy back to my cycling. The path however does not go anywhere near my home... so this is strictly a "joy ride." :D

This really is rather sad state of affairs however, as I have commuted on and off for nearly 30 years, but then I commuted to ride, I didn't ride to commute. (I did not "commute" for economical reasons as some may, but simply because I enjoyed cycling... except for a few college years where economical reasons coupled with the joy of cycling.)

[Dutchy]

For my particular commute I agree with noisebeam. The two main roads I have to choose between for my commute are either 100kph or 80kph. Neither have any type of shoulder, the white line marks the edge of the bitumen and the start of the dirt. I am constantly being squeezed by buses, trucks and cars. I have even tried riding further into the narrow lane instead of hugging the white line. It has made no difference, it just means the passing vehicle has even less room to squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic at full speed. I have had some seriously close calls.

Actually for me a car has been much safer than anytime I have been commuting by bike. In the past 3 years I have had two crashes (someone else’s fault) while riding to work and a close call almost every day, mainly at round-a-bouts and intersections.

But then I ride form the country into a city of 1 million people, so there is a lot of traffic around and the hills roads can be wet and foggy

I still prefer to ride, but I realise it isn’t as safe as driving.

CHEERS.

Mark

PS The two roads I ride to work on are having shoulders put on them this month. So this should make my commute significantly safer.

[vrkelley]

This has been on my mind for a while. This has nothing to do with cycling vs. car statistics which deal with a large general auto and bike population. This has to do with me (and probably others ?) and my skills and environment.

I speculate and feel confident in this speculation that I would be safer (but not neccessarily heathier) if I drove to/from work every day instead of cycling.

Why? I would use the same roads, the same time of day, with a similar appropriate focus on safety when I drive as when I cycle. Just as when cycling, when driving I don't speed, I keep aware of surroundings, I drive defensively, follow the rules. Just as when cycling I am very unlikely to be involved in an at fault accident when driving. The incident that will cause an accident will more likely be another driver doing something illegal and or dangerous.

But on a bike I have factors against my safety: Speed differential between other traffic, lower visibility to other drivers, more dangerous left turns & merging, no steel frame around me with air bags to protect me from a car hitting me, no ability to accerate out of a dangerous situation. On a bike the only advantage is maneuverabilty, but this is of limited benefit with traffic on ones left and a curb, or in the case of a merge traffic, on ones right.

Do others feel this way?

Al

It's definately a judgement call. There are some steep winding roads around here that don't have a shoulder and it's difficult for cars to see and pass a bicycle.

[Dchiefransom]

The weird thing is, when I'm riding, the things that happen don't seem as dangerous. But when I'm driving and see so,eone do something with a car, it always looks like it would be more dangerous to me if I'd been riding. I see people drifting over into the bike lanes a lot when I'm driving, but hardly ever when I'm riding.

[Roody]

Well they probably don't drift into the bike lanes so much when you are riding because you are there! In the bike lane, that is. The scary part is that they do occasionally drift over when you are riding in the bike lane!

[noisebeam]

The weird thing is, when I'm riding, the things that happen don't seem as dangerous. But when I'm driving and see so,eone do something with a car, it always looks like it would be more dangerous to me if I'd been riding. I see people drifting over into the bike lanes a lot when I'm driving, but hardly ever when I'm riding.
I notice the same. When in my car it seems like a madhouse, and only a crazy would ride in such traffic. Then in the same traffic on bike it seems more reasonable. Its not just things like drifting toward shoulder, but also speeds, sudden merges, agressive maneuvering, etc.

Al

[noisebeam]

Thanks all for the inputs/thoughts. It seems that there are others out their who find that their commute is not safer or as safe by bike vs. car. That is too bad that road and driving conditions are in such a sorry state. That is unfortunate for Gene who finds it unpleasant enought to stop commuting by bike anymore.

But it brings to mind a couple of related thoughts:
1. If commuting for some (or many?) by bike is not as safe as by car, then it makes sense that there are so few bike commuters. Many cycle commuters spew venom at drivers that people are lazy, stuck to their cars, etc. But safety is a real concern for a lot of people and may will do whatever they can do avoid additional risk (even if there are other benefits)
2. Statistics don't mean much if you are comparing biking vs. driving for a specific person and route. Many folks say cycling is just a safe as driving and use statisitics to back it up. But what it important to people is the practical - will I be safer getting my groceries after work in rush hour traffic by car or by bike?
3. There is a real need to improve infrastructure and driver education to make cycle commuting safer in many communities/cities. Practical VC cycling and route planning alone can not make cycling as safe as driving for some (many?) commutes. (Of course practical VC cycling can help reduce the risks.)

Finally we are talking about relative risks here, cycling to work for some may be less safe, but as a risk it remains low on the scale. Because of this it is not a complelling reason for many to stop cycle commuting, especially given the other benefits (physical and mental health, lower resource consumption, etc.)

Al

[PaulH]

I think driving is safer, in part because I drive a large sedan of a make and model that is generally considered to be very good at protecting occupants.

However, any small additional risk is not sufficient to make any difference to me. Clearly, if I neiter rode nor drove and just stayed home, that would be the safest alternative.

Paul

[CMcMahon]

My commute is safer in my car than my bike.

Of course, when I commute, I'm also carrying 75+ pounds of stuff for deliveries in large plastic boxes in my trunk.

[genec]

Thanks all for the inputs/thoughts. It seems that there are others out their who find that their commute is not safer or as safe by bike vs. car. That is too bad that road and driving conditions are in such a sorry state. That is unfortunate for Gene who finds it unpleasant enought to stop commuting by bike anymore.

But it brings to mind a couple of related thoughts:
1. If commuting for some (or many?) by bike is not as safe as by car, then it makes sense that there are so few bike commuters. Many cycle commuters spew venom at drivers that people are lazy, stuck to their cars, etc. But safety is a real concern for a lot of people and may will do whatever they can do avoid additional risk (even if there are other benefits)
2. Statistics don't mean much if you are comparing biking vs. driving for a specific person and route. Many folks say cycling is just a safe as driving and use statisitics to back it up. But what it important to people is the practical - will I be safer getting my groceries after work in rush hour traffic by car or by bike?
3. There is a real need to improve infrastructure and driver education to make cycle commuting safer in many communities/cities. Practical VC cycling and route planning alone can not make cycling as safe as driving for some (many?) commutes. (Of course practical VC cycling can help reduce the risks.)

Finally we are talking about relative risks here, cycling to work for some may be less safe, but as a risk it remains low on the scale. Because of this it is not a complelling reason for many to stop cycle commuting, especially given the other benefits (physical and mental health, lower resource consumption, etc.)

Al


Yeah unfortunatly my entire route is marked at 45MPH for the whole way and of course motorists often drive any way they want. Alternatives sadly are marked at 65MPH... and then go to other main arteries which are at 45MPH... Due to the canyon/mesa nature of the area where I live, there are no thru 25MPH streets.

Last night on my run down and back to the bike path for my cruise (I am on the city streets at that point...) I saw this jerk doing the Mario Andretti routine in the far right lane just past me... must have been doing 65+ (rest of traffic doing 45 looked like they were standing still by comparison). The thing that really caught my eye about this guy was that he stupidly went blindly past several business driveways in his rush... where anyone might have pulled out right in front of him...

It is this lack of concern and general lack of courtesy that bothers me the most... that and the local condition of some the roads I would be cycling on. (a very local issue... in fact our mayor just resigned due to issues relating to city monetary problems... among others)

Regarding the condition of the roads... last night I rode across steel plates that were not there even last week... the road work is that dynamic where I am due to a long term sewer project and a freeway expansion.

I think I'll stick to the path for now. I will do bike to work day though, just to show solidarity...

[recursive]

I understand what you're saying, and I have to say I feel the same way.

Why?

If I'm involved in an accident in the car on the way to work, it'll almost certainly be a fender bender. I'll get out, exchange insurance details etc, and the worst I'm likely to suffer is whiplash.

If I'm involved in an accident on the bike, I'll most likely be injured - skin taken off, something broken, something strained etc.

Still, I'd rather ride. :D

I've been involved in a few incidents on the bike. None of them have yielded more than minor injuries. I realize that some of this is chance, but I think a large portion of bike collisions don't result in serious injuries. The worst I've had was a small patch of road rash on my upper arm I got from some black ice on a commute, but that wasn't enough to stop me from continuing with the rest of my day.

[Metro]

This has been on my mind for a while. This has nothing to do with cycling vs. car statistics which deal with a large general auto and bike population. This has to do with me (and probably others ?) and my skills and environment.

I speculate and feel confident in this speculation that I would be safer (but not neccessarily heathier) if I drove to/from work every day instead of cycling.

Why? I would use the same roads, the same time of day, with a similar appropriate focus on safety when I drive as when I cycle. Just as when cycling, when driving I don't speed, I keep aware of surroundings, I drive defensively, follow the rules. Just as when cycling I am very unlikely to be involved in an at fault accident when driving. The incident that will cause an accident will more likely be another driver doing something illegal and or dangerous.

But on a bike I have factors against my safety: Speed differential between other traffic, lower visibility to other drivers, more dangerous left turns & merging, no steel frame around me with air bags to protect me from a car hitting me, no ability to accerate out of a dangerous situation. On a bike the only advantage is maneuverabilty, but this is of limited benefit with traffic on ones left and a curb, or in the case of a merge traffic, on ones right.

Do others feel this way?

Al


Kind of. But general fitness leads to longer life and overall better quality of life, compared with higher colestrol, higher blood pressure and excess fat of the sedentary life style, which is much more dangerous in the long run.

Just playing the devil's advocate.

[AndrewP]

If a car hits a bike the cyclist is more likely to be hurt than the car driver. However most cycling accidents dont involve a car and also happen at low speed, which means low risk of serious injury. Car accidents often happen at high speeds which gives greater risk of serious injury. I over 30 years of cycle commuting, I have had about 6 collisions with cars, none of the cars were travelling at high speed, and only 1 kept me in hospital overnight. I have had about the same number of fender benders while driving in the same period, although none happened while commuting. Therefore I dont either mode of commuting sufficiently dangerous to make me want to take the bus/subway to work.

[genec]

Kind of. But general fitness leads to longer life and overall better quality of life, compared with higher colestrol, higher blood pressure and excess fat of the sedentary life style, which is much more dangerous in the long run.

Just playing the devil's advocate.

It is a good counter arguement... play it.

Let me come back with the fact that by not bike commuting, I am getting more exercise, as I now just ride on paths and put a lot more effort into the actual ride verses effort into avoiding dunderheaded drivers... or the potential thereof. Obviously I am still riding, therefore getting all the benefits of exercise.

When commuting, I was often stopped by lights and signs, not to mention the slow caution I would take at certain intersections, so I was not riding to my full potential, I was commuting... but cycling at a far lower "workout" pace.

Now I do rides after work on an isolated path at all I can give. By the time I pack up after the ride, it is dusk and it is well past rush hour. My drive home is then stress free. So I have reduced my stress from either cycling in traffic, or driving in traffic... less stress is good for reduction of HBP. And I am getting far more exercise. Sure I could also cycle home, but then it would be after dark... not really the best time to cycle.

When daylight savings reverts back to shorter days, I will simply get my rides in at noon... and work later, again avoiding the rush hour traffic, while still getting a higher quality workout than I would by commuting.

Strange world eh?

[Alphie]

If traveling to work by car, I would take the major highway that is convenient, for purpose of speed. On this highway I definitely do not feel safer in my car, versus on my bike on the secondary roads I take on the bike. If I take the car on the secondary roads I feel safer, but arrive at work only 5 minutes quicker than if I were biking.

[joejack951]

I honestly feel safer while biking to work than I did driving. My trip is a little less than 7 miles of arterial roads with speed limits ranging from 25-40mph, but that doesn't stop most people from doing 50 anyway. What caused me a lot of stress when driving was the constant onslaught of cars coming at me halfway in my lane. The roads I travel are narrow with no shoulder so in a car you really have nowhere to go. On a bike, I'm unaffected by their lack of attention. It seems I'm also traveling against the flow of most cars so that certainly helps.

[kwv]

I feel the opposite, but I don't drive. When I'm in a car with someone else driving, I'm always kind of freaked out.

As far as advantages on a bike, you also have greater visibility - you can see more of what's going on around you.

With cars being sound proof, on a bike you can hear and feel what is around you.

[kwv]

If a car hits a bike the cyclist is more likely to be hurt than the car driver. However most cycling accidents dont involve a car and also happen at low speed, which means low risk of serious injury. Car accidents often happen at high speeds which gives greater risk of serious injury. I over 30 years of cycle commuting, I have had about 6 collisions with cars, none of the cars were travelling at high speed, and only 1 kept me in hospital overnight. I have had about the same number of fender benders while driving in the same period, although none happened while commuting. Therefore I dont either mode of commuting sufficiently dangerous to make me want to take the bus/subway to work.

You are very very lucky as I had one slow speed on a bike when the driver was coming out of roundabout and I ended up in hospital for around 4 weeks and took around 4 years to get compo a lousy $8,000.

[kwv]

I notice the same. When in my car it seems like a madhouse, and only a crazy would ride in such traffic. Then in the same traffic on bike it seems more reasonable. Its not just things like drifting toward shoulder, but also speeds, sudden merges, agressive maneuvering, etc.

Al

Walking along the street or being passenger in a car to me to me there is no different it is all a madhouse the way some road users especially drivers use the roads such as speeding.

[John Ridley]

I'm not going to argue this point, I'm sure there are situations where one or the other is safer, and it depends on your various skills that I don't know. However, if it concerns you that much, perhaps you can get a job where you can telecommute, and then never have to leave the safety of your home. It won't be as much fun, but it would be safer.

Personally, I feel about as safe either way, and I regret each day that I drive, though it's > 50% these days due to time constraints, appointments too far away, being sick, etc.

[noisebeam]

I'm not going to argue this point, I'm sure there are situations where one or the other is safer, and it depends on your various skills that I don't know. However, if it concerns you that much, perhaps you can get a job where you can telecommute, and then never have to leave the safety of your home. It won't be as much fun, but it would be safer.

Personally, I feel about as safe either way, and I regret each day that I drive, though it's > 50% these days due to time constraints, appointments too far away, being sick, etc.
It only concerns me for a few reasons:
1. If there are risks I like to understand, discuss what I can do and what can be done about environment (i.e roads, drivers, cycling facilities) to reduce these risks. There are numerous threads on this.
2. I often see stated from cycle commuters that they have a low opinion of people who drive everywhere, citing laziness, etc. However I think it is a real issue for some people that cycling for many types of trips is not as safe as driving.
3. In response to safety concerns about cycling, there are proponents who will whip out statistic showing relative incident of accident/death for hours/miles/% etc. that show that cycling is a safe activity. But I wanted to look at an 1:1 comparision - that is performing the same trip (errand, commute, etc.) by a the same person who has equal skill in driving and cycling.

Overall, just food for thought and I do find it interesting that many folks do find slightly more risk performing the same trip on bicycle.

Al

[FOG]

I feel safer in the commuter bus than I do in my car, safer in my car than on my motorcycle, and safer on my motorcycle than on my bicycle. I have worked with enough safety statistics over the years to believe this perception is accurate. It is clear that survival given a collision or impact with a fixed object (more properly called an allision) depends on the mass, velocity and size of the vehicle. It isn't until you make the jump from motorcoaches (as opposed to urban buses) to passenger trains that the smaller vehicle has less risk per passenger mile, and both passenger trains and motorcoaches have outstanding safety records. FWIW, you can minimize your risk in passenger trains by riding in the coaches closest to the middle of the train, and achieve some of the lowest risks in transportation.

[lilHinault]

There was a study done showing that even factoring in accidents, cycling is healthier than driving because of the fitness benefits.

[billh]

Do others feel this way?

Al

Yes, of course. But that is why only a few brave urban pioneers should risk a bicycle commute. Maybe someday . . . the world will be a safer place for bicyclists.

[Roody]

I feel safer in the commuter bus than I do in my car, safer in my car than on my motorcycle, and safer on my motorcycle than on my bicycle. I have worked with enough safety statistics over the years to believe this perception is accurate. It is clear that survival given a collision or impact with a fixed object (more properly called an allision) depends on the mass, velocity and size of the vehicle. It isn't until you make the jump from motorcoaches (as opposed to urban buses) to passenger trains that the smaller vehicle has less risk per passenger mile, and both passenger trains and motorcoaches have outstanding safety records. FWIW, you can minimize your risk in passenger trains by riding in the coaches closest to the middle of the train, and achieve some of the lowest risks in transportation.With your expertise--it would be interesting if you started a thread on acheiving lower risks while cycling.

[FOG]

With your expertise--it would be interesting if you started a thread on acheiving lower risks while cycling.There has been a lot of very good stuff posted here, most of it surrounding the issue of vehicular cycling versus bike lanes or paths. I tend to agree with the vehicular cycling approach, but there is still quite a bit of residual risk. Most of the risk is external, but there are ways to minimize risks. First be as visible as possible. Second, be a competent cyclist, as the faster you go, the smaller will be the speed differential with traffic. Third, read and understand what the experts on vehicular cycling have to offer. You might want to do this through the League of American Bicyclists http://www.bikeleague.org . My last suggestion is to read carefully the posts in the Safety and Advocacy Forum, being very careful to sift out the trolls.

[John Ridley]

3. In response to safety concerns about cycling, there are proponents who will whip out statistic showing relative incident of accident/death for hours/miles/% etc. that show that cycling is a safe activity. But I wanted to look at an 1:1 comparision - that is performing the same trip (errand, commute, etc.) by a the same person who has equal skill in driving and cycling.

You have a valid point there. The often-used statistics ARE in some ways invalid, because there's no control. The fact that there are more fatalities per whatever in cars than on bikes could easily be because most fatalities occur on interstates, where bikes are not allowed, and the drivers all turn into nutcases. Or it could be that people who cycle VC are extremely safe types, and if they were isolated as a population when they're driving, they might be even safer than when cycling.

It's a valid point for discussion. I'm still gonna cycle to work a couple of days a week. It's fun and good for me, and worth the risk (if any).