Advocacy & Safety - someone else locking my bike to a railing... legality???

hey.
i came out of work today and went to unlock my bike only to find another lock on it, securing it to the same rails i had locked the bike to. Basically someone else put a lock on my bike. I couldnt go anywhere!!!
I called into the buiding behind the rails and some little irate man comes out and says that the rails are private property and he wanted to teach me a lesson for locking the bike there. i say that my bike is private property and that he was very cheeky for doing this. If he was so passionate about not having bikes locked to the rails, should be not have a sign saying so or in the very least, left a note on my bike saying so....
Is it illegal to do that to someone else's bike?
thanks...

hey.
i came out of work today and went to unlock my bike only to find another lock on it, securing it to the same rails i had locked the bike to. Basically someone else put a lock on my bike. I couldnt go anywhere!!!
I called into the buiding behind the rails and some little irate man comes out and says that the rails are private property and he wanted to teach me a lesson for locking the bike there. i say that my bike is private property and that he was very cheeky for doing this. If he was so passionate about not having bikes locked to the rails, should be not have a sign saying so or in the very least, left a note on my bike saying so....
Is it illegal to do that to someone else's bike?
thanks...

I don't see how it would be illegal. At least he didn't cut the lock and remove your bike. Personally if It were my rail (LOL! This is getting ridiculous :) ) and I didn't want bikes locked to it, I'd probably leave a note. A sign may be required by local ordinance, depends on the local trespassing laws. On the other hand if it were my rail, and the bike wasn't causing a problem with traffic flow or causing a safety hazzard, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But we don't know what this guy's experience is, maybe he's had someone abandon a junker there or something. I wouldn't get bent out of shape over it.

if you can clamp a car you can lock a bike, however yes i would imagine he needs a sign up warning that he will do this. Im not sure what he would of done had your bike then been stolen. You had me woried there, when you said there was a lock on it because theifs often put locks on bikes so the owner can not get it off, then they can come back at night when its quiet to get the owners lock off.

Sounds like he was waiting for you and wouldn't have left you hanging for long. He probably wanted the face to face confrontation which a note wouldn't have provided.

Legal or not to lock up your bike, I'd drop it as the battle will get you nowhere and unfortunately you now need to find non-private property or private property with permissionn to lock your bike up at.

Al

It was wrong of you to lock your bike to a rail on private property without permission.
The mature thing to do would be to call into the building, let the man rant, apologize profusely and ask politely for the key to the lock and promise to never lock you bike to the rail again.
Hopefully the man will find it in his heart to present the key to you so you can be on your way having learned a valuable lesson.
Once you unlock your bike you can take it down to the sidewalk, thank the man for letting you have your bike back and either ride off with your new lock or throw it through one of the windows of the building.

Enjoy

Let me guess, there was no bike parking provided by the building owner / management at this destination. :rolleyes:

You should find out if there is any local ordinance requiring them to provide bike parking. If that doesn't work, appeal to them personally. I bet they provide parking for motor vehicles (at an average cost of about $20K per space :eek: ).

If none of this works, I'd take my business elsewhere!

It sounds to me like you should keep bolt cutters at work.

It sounds to me like you should keep bolt cutters at work.
Or at the very least a handy plasma cutter...
;)

get one of them portable angle grinders and put a cutting blade on it. now you have a new lock.

you should of bashed his head in with your lock.

Follow this simple, step-by-step procedure for instant gratification.

1. Pick up tire lock (not sure exactly where to find one, but those traffic violation locks have to be available somewhere.
2. Wait for said person to park in a public parking spot.
3. Place said tire lock on vehicle, then ride home.
4. And this probably should have been 1. Make sure you have enough bail money just in case.

I would go find a cheap $20 bike and 100 feet of the strongest chain you can find. Then lock it up to the rail Pee Wee Herman style and never come back to it.

The mature thing to do would be to call into the building, let the man rant, apologize profusely and ask politely for the key to the lock and promise to never lock you bike to the rail again.


And then the next day
lock a nasty, smelly trash can to the rail.

One of our local shopping centers (Plaza Camino Real on the Carlsbad-Oceanside border) impounds bikes which are locked to trees or sign posts, insisting instead that we use their primitive wheel-bending racks. I agree strongly that they have an unfilled obligation to post the prohibition, instead of ambushing people.

Fortunately, other places, such as the Encinitas YMCA and most of downtown Encinitas, offer convenient, safe, nondamaging, modern bike locking facilities.

I would go find a cheap $20 bike and 100 feet of the strongest chain you can find. Then lock it up to the rail Pee Wee Herman style and never come back to it.


That's pretty funny. :lol:

Koffee

Wait! I've got a better one:

Lock a cheap bike to the railing with a cheap lock. Then when he locks that frame to the rail, squirt some glue into the lock hole so his key won't work.

Make sure it's an ugly bike so he can look at it for a long time; assuming his lock is strong.

I've got a million ways to be an a**.

Note to self: Self, put hacksaw blade in the trunk bag!

that's actually a good idea. scout for an old tosser bike by someones garbage, buy a cheapie lock and lock it up over night. if you see there is another lock on it then ruin both locks.
or just forget about it.

Do you have somewhere else to put your bike?

superglue the bike to the railing :p

seriously though, that guy was being somewhat cool about it. if you locked up your bike lots there in the past, you may want to talk to him or the owner of the building for alternate safe spots to lock your bike.

And then the next day
lock a nasty, smelly trash can to the rail.

I remember a site where a similar thing happened to a guy in the UK. Only the property owner just used an angle grinder to cut his lock off.

He never locked his bike there again but would attach different object there on a daily basis. Ironing boards, toasters, etc. Every single one of them disappeared by the next day. I think it went on for months until he got tired of the game.

Unless there is sign mentioning a proabition on locking bike to the rails, what has happened is he has siezed, or stolen your bike. You should just call the cops (you would have to provide proof the bike is yours) and charge the guy.

I remember a site where a similar thing happened to a guy in the UK. Only the property owner just used an angle grinder to cut his lock off.

He never locked his bike there again but would attach different object there on a daily basis. Ironing boards, toasters, etc. Every single one of them disappeared by the next day. I think it went on for months until he got tired of the game.

And here it is:
What Should I Put On The Fence (http://whatshouldiputonthefence.com/)

seriously though, that guy was being somewhat cool about it. if you locked up your bike lots there in the past, you may want to talk to him or the owner of the building for alternate safe spots to lock your bike.
A private citizen who seizes your property in order to "teach you a lesson" isn't being cool, he's being arrogant and disrespectful. Your suggestion about talking to the owner is a good one, though.

A private citizen who seizes your property in order to "teach you a lesson" isn't being cool, he's being arrogant and disrespectful. Your suggestion about talking to the owner is a good one, though.

Yeah! Not like the cyclist who locked his bike to a piece of private property without permission in order to go to work in (unless I read this wrong, he said he yelled into the building behind the rail, so it sounds like he doesn't work in that building to me) another building! By God we're cyclists! We are saving the planet! We can lock our bikes wherever is convenient for us! That idiot had NO RIGHT to put a chain and lock around his own rail, there was a bike locked there!

This calls for a letter to the CEO, followed by a law suit against the offending party, to set a prescedent and illustrate a point.

says that the rails are private property................i say that my bike is private property

Hello pot

This is kettle

You're black

I say you weld the bike to the rail.

Or, I'll give my usual speech. Let him lock it, then spread a gel of hydrofluric acid onto his lock. When he goes to unlock it, the HF gets into his body, starts stripping and dissociating minerals from his body, moves its way up to the heart, interrupts rhythm, leads to cardiac arrest.

Or.. find out where the guy's car is. Put a chain around one of the tires on his passenger side. Watch it rip his car apart when he pulls out.

hey.
i came out of work today and went to unlock my bike only to find another lock on it, securing it to the same rails i had locked the bike to. Basically someone else put a lock on my bike. I couldnt go anywhere!!!
I called into the buiding behind the rails and some little irate man comes out and says that the rails are private property and he wanted to teach me a lesson for locking the bike there. i say that my bike is private property and that he was very cheeky for doing this. If he was so passionate about not having bikes locked to the rails, should be not have a sign saying so or in the very least, left a note on my bike saying so....
Is it illegal to do that to someone else's bike?
thanks...


Well, I'm probably gonna be one of the only folks here who says, "yes," it is illegal. What this guy did was impair your right to your own property. I assume that your bike was parked at your workplace. In that case, you were there legally. You were not a trespasser. If this guy was so serious about the property rights of the business owner, there is an obligation to post some sort of warning about chaining bikes to the railing and, ideally, informing bike owners of the potential consequences of ignoring this warning.

As it is, it was a "no harm, no foul" situation. Ask this guy for alternatives if they aren't obvious. If he can't give you an answer, go to the building owner.

Yeah! Not like the cyclist who locked his bike to a piece of private property without permission in order to go to work in (unless I read this wrong, he said he yelled into the building behind the rail, so it sounds like he doesn't work in that building to me) another building! By God we're cyclists! We are saving the planet! We can lock our bikes wherever is convenient for us! That idiot had NO RIGHT to put a chain and lock around his own rail, there was a bike locked there!

"called in" as in went into the building to talk to someone in there, not shouted/yelled in. (european term!)

anyway...
there is no proper parking around the place i work, i did not know of any restrictions of where you cannot lock your bike. there are a few places around that have 'no parking of bikes', this place was not one.
the guy basically clamped my bike, for, at the time, no reason in my mind. I was in a rush home, i could not access my bike, I therefore think that him restricting my being able to access my own property is a violation of my rights, no?
I think he went about it the wrong way, if he had left a note on my bike, it would have been fine, i would have been told of his anxiety of bikes being locked to this rail and would not have locked it there again.
if i had went into the building a minute later, it would have been closed and i would have had to have walked home!
he basically threatened me too, when i said i didnt think i had done anything wrong as i didnt know his feelings about the rails, he went back into the building for a second to pretend that i had lost my chance to get the bike back.
putting locks on other peoples bikes is what 'robbers' do, so they can steal them at a later time.

anyway, i'm going to do something, dont know what yet though.

Well, I'm probably gonna be one of the only folks here who says, "yes," it is illegal. What this guy did was impair your right to your own property. I assume that your bike was parked at your workplace. In that case, you were there legally.

Like I said, greenbike should have just called the cops and let the cop talk to the guy who locked his bike without his permission.

Yeah! Not like the cyclist who locked his bike to a piece of private property without permission in order to go to work in (unless I read this wrong, he said he yelled into the building behind the rail, so it sounds like he doesn't work in that building to me) another building! By God we're cyclists! We are saving the planet! We can lock our bikes wherever is convenient for us! That idiot had NO RIGHT to put a chain and lock around his own rail, there was a bike locked there!
There is a big difference between a railing, which is fixed, and a bike, which is mobile. A bike is considered personal property and travels with its owner. A railing is part of a structure and serves no purpose beyond remaining fixed to that structure. A good bike costs thousands of dollars and is vulnerable to theft. A good railing might cost thousands but isn't likely to be stolen. Chaining a bike to a railing does it no harm (assuming paint is not scratched, etc.) nor does it impair its usefulness as a railing. Chaining a bike to a railing is not an attempt to seize or control the railing, nor to limit others' access to it. The railing is part of the environment/infrastructure, there for public use. Does the railing's owner chastise people for using it to support themselves, or as a handhold when climbing the steps? Face it, this guy was a control freak. The idiot can put all the chains he wants on his railing, but if he immobilizes someone else's bike in the process, he's stepping over the line.

"called in" as in went into the building to talk to someone in there, not shouted/yelled in. (european term!)

anyway...
there is no proper parking around the place i work, i did not know of any restrictions of where you cannot lock your bike. there are a few places around that have 'no parking of bikes', this place was not one.
the guy basically clamped my bike, for, at the time, no reason in my mind. I was in a rush home, i could not access my bike, I therefore think that him restricting my being able to access my own property is a violation of my rights, no?
I think he went about it the wrong way, if he had left a note on my bike, it would have been fine, i would have been told of his anxiety of bikes being locked to this rail and would not have locked it there again.
if i had went into the building a minute later, it would have been closed and i would have had to have walked home!
he basically threatened me too, when i said i didnt think i had done anything wrong as i didnt know his feelings about the rails, he went back into the building for a second to pretend that i had lost my chance to get the bike back.
putting locks on other peoples bikes is what 'robbers' do, so they can steal them at a later time.

anyway, i'm going to do something, dont know what yet though.

Why do you think that it is OK for you to lock your bike to someone else's railing, but not OK for someone to lock their railing to your bike?

If someone parked a car on my driveway, I could have the car legally towed away. I do not need to post a warning first. The owner would be quite inconvenienced by having to go to the tow lot, pay for the tow and storage charges.

Dobber,
life's too short. Just park somewhere else, if you can't... negotiate.

If someone parked a car on my driveway, I could have the car legally towed away. I do not need to post a warning first. The owner would be quite inconvenienced by having to go to the tow lot, pay for the tow and storage charges.

Quite true, you could legally do this, and if you did so without talking to the car's owner first, you'd probably have people saying you were a jerk for doing so. Not that I'm saying that, of course. I do think the situations are slightly different. A car parked in your driveway is probably blocking your own access to the driveway, or your garage. The bike attached to the railing probably is not harming anyone nor blocking access to anything.

This kind of reminds me of the John Hancock Building in Chicago. They will NOT allow bikes to lock up their bikes anywhere near the building unless attached to their woefully inadequate bike racks. If you were to lock your bike to the building, they said they'd actually saw it off and confiscate your bike. Hmmmmm...

Koffee

It's a fairly simple concept really, if the business owner wanted to provide bike parking facilities, they would. If I'm driving to a store, and they have no parking lot, does that mean I can park on the sidewalk? Obviously not. They may very well lose my business, but if I park on the sidewalk and come back to find my vehicle missing, I have no right to retaliate. Again, private property is private property. The rail owner did absolutely nothing that the bike owner didn't do, and again, you're lucky he didn't take whatever measures at his disposal to remove and dispose of the bike.

Petition your company to provide you with a place to park your bike. If nothing else, maybe there's a store room in your building where you can store it for the day, and it would be far more secure than locked to a railing anyway. Take some positive action rather than raising hell with a guy that put a chain on his own railing...

A private citizen who seizes your property in order to "teach you a lesson" isn't being cool, he's being arrogant and disrespectful. Your suggestion about talking to the owner is a good one, though.


pot meet kettle.

If thst is interfering with HIS handrail, which there was no prior agreement of use, then he has the right to REMOVE that bike....he was at least being halfway decent about it.

Gotta remember, there's property on both sides here...if you can lock your bike to his handrail without permission, then why cant he lock his handrail to your bike?

Check your local law.

Here in DC, sidewalks are public space, and the law says that on public space, "A person may secure a bicycle to a stanchion by means of a lock or similar device as long as securing the bicycle does not obstruct or unduly impede traffic or pedestrian movement and as long as securing bicycles has not been forbidden by any notice posted by the Director." ("The Director" is the Director of Public Works). The law also says, "Except as provided in this chapter, no person may park a bicycle upon a highway other than the roadway against the curb; nor may any person park a bicycle upon a sidewalk, except in a rack to support the bicycle; or against a building or at the curb, in such a manner as to afford the least obstruction to pedestrian traffic."

So it is legal to lock a bike against a building, as long as you "afford the least obstruction to pedestrian traffic."

DC also goes on to say: "Bicycle parking spaces shall be provided for office, retail and service uses, except for retail and service uses in the C-3-C, C-4, and C-5 (PAD) districts. The number of bicycle parking spaces provided shall be at least equal to five percent (5%) of the number of automobile parking spaces required under §2101.1. Bicycle facilities shall have convenient access from the building or structure and street or other bicycle right-of-way, be clean, secure and well lit and shall be located within a building or structure, either on the ground floor, basement, or first cellar level. All bicycle parking spaces required under §2119.1 shall be a minimum of two feet (2’) in width and six feet (6’) in length."

So check your local law.

pot meet kettle.

If thst is interfering with HIS handrail, which there was no prior agreement of use, then he has the right to REMOVE that bike....he was at least being halfway decent about it.

Gotta remember, there's property on both sides here...if you can lock your bike to his handrail without permission, then why cant he lock his handrail to your bike?

I get your point about property on both sides. I just don't see a bicycle and a railing being the same type of property. It's more like pot meet stove.

The railing is fixed and immovable. Locking a railing to some other thing doesn't accomplish anything other than screw with the other thing (thus making a statement, which seems to have been the irate guy's intent). The bike is a mobile device. Locking it down is a necessary part of keeping it safe. Railings are considered part of the structure, and while they are property, I think it's a stretch to call them "personal" property.

It's debatable whether a bike attached to a railing "interferes" with the railing -- that probably has a lot to do with how it was attached, what the location looks like, how many people use the railing, etc. It's also pretty subjective, as anyone can apply their personal standard for usability. True, there's no prior agreement of use, but depending on where this railing is, I feel there is an implied agreement -- the railing is there for people to use, just like the stairs, the sidewalk, the door, etc.

But there is not even a hint of implied agreement when it comes to a bicycle. My bike is mine, and nobody has any claim to it. There is absolutely no question that locking a railing to a bike immobilizes the bike and renders it completely useless, and to my mind, is the same as seizure or theft.

I just don't see a bicycle and a railing being the same type of property...

The railing is fixed and immovable...

The bike is a mobile device...

There is absolutely no question that locking a railing to a bike immobilizes the bike and renders it completely useless, and to my mind, is the same as seizure or theft.

Just like bluebottle1 said,


what this guy did was impair your right to your own property.

you can't say the bike did the same thing to the owners' railing.

I agree, the guy was being a control freak. I'd recommend messing around with him.

Legally speaking... I don't know who's 'in the wrong' here. If I were a cop I'd probably come out and say, "You guys are idiots, I have real crime to deal with. You with the building, unlock his bike. You with the bike, never park here again. If I have to come out again, I'm nailing you both for disorderly conduct. Have a nice day." These little 'neighborly spats' probably drive cops nuts because in the grand scheme of things they are so piddly and worthless.

I suppose you both did something illegal. You locked your bike to private property, and he played office cowboy and siezed your property. However, your mistake was innocent, and his mistake was in order to make a mean spirited point (if he just wanted to make a regular point he would have left a note). Hence, your two illegal things cancel each other out, and we are just left with him being mean spirited.

Personally I'd cut his lock off. I've been known to remove car boots as well, when they are put on by property owners (particularly landlords who'd boot the cars of visitors to the building because he didn't recognize their cars, even though they were there to visit with a renter of the building). Alternatively, I really like the idea of locking all sorts of crap to his building. Sounds fun. :)

peace,
sam

I never heard of such a thing. Unless the bicycle was blocking the door or sidewalk, what was the harm? The man sounded anal. However, it it worth pursuing? The building owner is a nut, but why not just park your bike elsewhere, and forget about it. Let it go, let it go.

If you're in an urban area, and the railing was on or abutted to the sidewalk, I believe that's considered public access. Weather or not the property line goes past where the railing is or not. Like the sidewalk in front of your house. You can't keep someone off it unless there's a specific restraining order against that person not being near your house. My property line goes to the street but I technically have no control over the small strip of grass past the sidewalk other than I'm responsible for mowing it. I guess I could plant flowers or something there but if someone picked them I don't see how I could complain. If I had a fence right along the sidewalk and someone locked their bike on the outside of my fence, I could probably only cut off the tip of the handlebar that stuck through the fence. The rest would be off limits. I say (and Ive had encounters with similar folk) that that guy was/is a jerk. You did him a favor by not taking up a parking spot around his precious building, and choking up his air with car exaust. the least you get is a decent spot to secure your bike. He should have patted you on the back and offered you a glass of clean fresh water. or even better a beer. (#$*@ the oil cartels).

If someone parked a car on my driveway, I could have the car legally towed away. I do not need to post a warning first. The owner would be quite inconvenienced by having to go to the tow lot, pay for the tow and storage charges.

In the law it must be there 24 hours before you can get it towed, Wisconsin law.



Also, slvoid it's hard to get HF acid, I'm a chemiest, but can get HCl ;). The only think HCl would do it eat away the skin, and the lock.

Good Luck,
GEEK