BROL a study in hypocrisy and corruption

[THE PROFESSOR]

The following post was taken off ARBR:

THE PROFESSOR

*****************************************************************
For those who follow BROL and their ideals, a primary objective as of
late is the elimination of any references to Monkey Island specifically
as they claim the site's posts posed a disastrous effect on their little
niche of a community.

Just yesterday, SJ the owner of the now defunct Monkey Island site
stipulated he has the weblogs to prove the source of the vile posts from
the isle.

Apparantly upstanding members of the recumbent community AND
manufacturers were the responsible parties!

BROL, it's members, siteowner Bryan Ball, and it's manufacturers /
advertisers need look no further than themselves for their source of
anguish and concern.

This occurance adds to the string of corruption within BROL's own ranks
as they fail to acknowledge their own faults and continue to point the
finger elsewhere. Their policy of banning, editing, and deleting
posts is ludricous.

The below material was onsite for 4 hours prior to removal.
Interestingly, BROL left the rest of the post intact. See it at their
forums under HPV racing, last page of RAMM revisited thread.

Clearly a case of censorship, fear, and denial of facts presented,
BROL is a fine example of hypocrisy.

Ed Gin

[Magilla Gorilla]

The following post was taken off ARBR:

THE PROFESSOR

*****************************************************************
For those who follow BROL and their ideals, a primary objective as of
late is the elimination of any references to Monkey Island specifically
as they claim the site's posts posed a disastrous effect on their little
niche of a community.

Just yesterday, SJ the owner of the now defunct Monkey Island site
stipulated he has the weblogs to prove the source of the vile posts from
the isle.

Apparantly upstanding members of the recumbent community AND
manufacturers were the responsible parties!

BROL, it's members, siteowner Bryan Ball, and it's manufacturers /
advertisers need look no further than themselves for their source of
anguish and concern.

This occurance adds to the string of corruption within BROL's own ranks
as they fail to acknowledge their own faults and continue to point the
finger elsewhere. Their policy of banning, editing, and deleting
posts is ludricous.

The below material was onsite for 4 hours prior to removal.
Interestingly, BROL left the rest of the post intact. See it at their
forums under HPV racing, last page of RAMM revisited thread.

Clearly a case of censorship, fear, and denial of facts presented,
BROL is a fine example of hypocrisy.

Ed Gin


Hi Ed,

The same posts ended up on my Blog site which is not a message board but one can comment on my posts. They attacked Bryan Ball's wife with the most vile posts so I just shut it off rather than deal with it.
I thought that kind of thing died with Monkey island?
But I guess it did not. And if what you say is true maybe posting the names of the manufactures online would be a good way to stop what they are doing.
They have a pretty good way to silence desent.

MG

[Spuds McDoogle]

Magilla,
Your blog had some good carbon gelcoat Thingamajig info including facts about who built and designed it.

The only place to get the latest scoop on the Thingamajigs is the yahoo group and this forum. I see Zippy has been posting legit info about the carbon gelcoat Thingamajigs along with some wheel info at:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/nocom/

I wonder if young whipper snapper Johnny Schlitter and his killer bees will be flying to Morris, IL to race against Thingamajigs. Do you think that killer bee paceline will set any speed records on the HPV track this season?

Spuds


Hi Ed,

The same posts ended up on my Blog site which is not a message board but one can comment on my posts. They attacked Bryan Ball's wife with the most vile posts so I just shut it off rather than deal with it.
I thought that kind of thing died with Monkey island?
But I guess it did not. And if what you say is true maybe posting the names of the manufactures online would be a good way to stop what they are doing.
They have a pretty good way to silence desent.

MG

[Trsnrtr]

Hi Ed,

The same posts ended up on my Blog site which is not a message board but one can comment on my posts. They attacked Bryan Ball's wife with the most vile posts so I just shut it off rather than deal with it.
I thought that kind of thing died with Monkey island?
MG

Darn, Kev, I was an avid reader of the MG Blog. The personal attacks were way over the top but I enjoyed a lot of the other stuff...

-Dennis

[Spuds McDoogle]

Bogie,
Join the yahoo Thingamajig forum. No banning and you will get the latest scoop on the carbon gelcoat Thingamajigs. All points of view about high and low welcomed. There is a fellow by the name of Zippy over there that is posting some good Thingamajig info. I hear Zippy wants to see you on a Thingamajig passing JS and his killer bees paceline.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/nocom/
Spuds

Darn, Kev, I was an avid reader of the MG Blog. The personal attacks were way over the top but I enjoyed a lot of the other stuff...

-Dennis

[THE PROFESSOR]

Hi Ed,

The same posts ended up on my Blog site which is not a message board but one can comment on my posts. They attacked Bryan Ball's wife with the most vile posts so I just shut it off rather than deal with it.
I thought that kind of thing died with Monkey island?
But I guess it did not. And if what you say is true maybe posting the names of the manufactures online would be a good way to stop what they are doing.
They have a pretty good way to silence desent.

MG

MG,

There was a movement in the works to encourage "guess who I am" with cessation of his posts. Unfortunately he hasn't appeared at Scooter's house since last week. Your choice of shutting the site down is questionable at best as it represented a uncensored sanctuary. I believe readers can differentiate between valuable information and garbage.

I'd recommend leaving it up as Seth did with Monkey Island. The thin skinned of heart need not apply as only the strong will survive.

Regarding who the manufacturers were, Seth knows for sure but has hinted at some well known representatives from the Bacchetta Company as culprits responsible for the vile posts. These DO include their TEAM BACCHETTA riders with the foulest mouths around.

It's pure hypocrisy with the moderated Bacchetta Boards disguising the garbage minded principals posting vile trash elsewhere. Weblogs don't lie and perhaps Seth should publicly divulge the identities.

This would surely gleam a new light on that firm attempting to get a footing in the bent marketplace.

THE PROFESSOR

[THE PROFESSOR]

Darn, Kev, I was an avid reader of the MG Blog. The personal attacks were way over the top but I enjoyed a lot of the other stuff...

-Dennis

Dennis,

I found the Blog to be refreshing and bold with diverse topics of interest. When one is free to speak as they wish, new frontiers are reached.

MG should resurrect the site.

THE PROFESSOR

[THE PROFESSOR]

Bogie,
Join the yahoo Thingamajig forum. No banning and you will get the latest scoop on the carbon gelcoat Thingamajigs. All points of view about high and low welcomed. There is a fellow by the name of Zippy over there that is posting some good Thingamajig info. I hear Zippy wants to see you on a Thingamajig passing JS and his killer bees paceline.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/nocom/
Spuds

Bogie,

I have it from good inside information, posts on the thingamajig forum will never be censored nor members banned. Just register at: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/nocom/

THE PROFESSOR

[Ramjet]

Seths claim have NO foundation without devulging the names of said perps.

If in fact he has proof that would set the Recumbent Web World on its ear then he should come forth with said evidence or shut up. No holds barred Seth.

He can cry wolf all he wants but until he puts the evidence forth he is just like those he loaths.

NOCOM is fast who the hell doesn't know that? But do we have to beat that drum until our hands are bleeding? I may not understand the reason for that, please explain.

Kevin I think you did the right thing vile disgusting posts like that will only lead to more disparity for the members of Chicago's imfamous MI.

I am going to miss my GOTD posts though that's Gun of The Day. Thanks for allowing me to post Kevin.

[Wheel Doctor]

Ditto what RJ said.

[Slo Joe Recumbo]

MG,

<SNIP>
Regarding who the manufacturers were, Seth knows for sure but has hinted at some well known representatives from the Bacchetta Company as culprits responsible for the vile posts. These DO include their TEAM BACCHETTA riders with the foulest mouths around.

It's pure hypocrisy with the moderated Bacchetta Boards disguising the garbage minded principals posting vile trash elsewhere. Weblogs don't lie and perhaps Seth should publicly divulge the identities.

This would surely gleam a new light on that firm attempting to get a footing in the bent marketplace.

THE PROFESSOR

Ed,Professor and how many other personas you have:

You're all over the web with degrading either people or companies. The use of "hinted at" and naming Bacchetta as culprits is another example. You have no proof, yet you either slander, defame, knock, ridicule, besmirch any and all.

If you have proof, publish it.

I hope Koffee shuts this thread down. It is a moderated forum Ed. Why are you here?

Slo Joe Recumbo

[Wheel Doctor]

The following post was taken off ARBR:

THE PROFESSOR

*****************************************************************
For those who follow BROL and their ideals.

Ed Gin

Gee, I'm an idoit. I have no idea what your talking about? How does one "follow BROL" and just what are their "ideals"?

It is a commercial site. It attracts all sorts of "contributors". I see all recumbent venues represented and covered. Actually I'm more inclined to believe that the detractors of BROL are jealous about it's success.

[lowracer1]

The following post was taken off ARBR:

THE PROFESSOR

*****************************************************************
For those who follow BROL and their ideals, a primary objective as of
late is the elimination of any references to Monkey Island specifically
as they claim the site's posts posed a disastrous effect on their little
niche of a community.

Just yesterday, SJ the owner of the now defunct Monkey Island site
stipulated he has the weblogs to prove the source of the vile posts from
the isle.

Apparantly upstanding members of the recumbent community AND
manufacturers were the responsible parties!

BROL, it's members, siteowner Bryan Ball, and it's manufacturers /
advertisers need look no further than themselves for their source of
anguish and concern.

This occurance adds to the string of corruption within BROL's own ranks
as they fail to acknowledge their own faults and continue to point the
finger elsewhere. Their policy of banning, editing, and deleting
posts is ludricous.

The below material was onsite for 4 hours prior to removal.
Interestingly, BROL left the rest of the post intact. See it at their
forums under HPV racing, last page of RAMM revisited thread.

Clearly a case of censorship, fear, and denial of facts presented,
BROL is a fine example of hypocrisy.

Ed Gin


hmm and to remember that at one time I actually respected Ed and thought he was a real cool guy back when I first met him at Northbrook and we all went out to eat together at that chinese or canton place. What has happened to him since then? Some weird chemical imbalance? I can tell you now that I have no respect for him and never will again.

[sbhikes]

This thread has me baffled. As a member of BROL I'm somehow guilty of some sort of hullabaloo regarding some Monkey something-or-other and some thing called a Thingamajig (is that for real?)??

WTF???

[Wheel Doctor]

Diane, Not to worry, you not the only one. One has to have been around all the different recumbent forums for sometime to understand. I have been around for some time and I'm still confused. Multipule Personality Disorder is easier to understand than Monkey Island, or possibly it is the same dysfunction.

[Spuds McDoogle]

The carbon gelcoat Thingamajig is for real. I for one want to track race the Bacchetta elite blue jersey killer bee team with my Thingamajig.

I hope that young whipper snapper Johnny Schlitter and his killer bees will come to Morris and race for the honor of fastest Stock racer at Morris.

http://doctorvision.com/grundy/morris2005schedule.jpg

Spuds


This thread has me baffled. As a member of BROL I'm somehow guilty of some sort of hullabaloo regarding some Monkey something-or-other and some thing called a Thingamajig (is that for real?)??

WTF???

[Ramjet]

Thingamajig=NOCOM Chicago Style.

Again a very fast bike I would love to own one it would improve may speed over the same course by no less than 10%. 19 MPH average to 20.9. But everyone know that this bike is fast. The comparison to HR is just stupid in that they both have there specific purposes but can be adapted to other uses.

[JohnCub]

Diane, Not to worry, you not the only one. One has to have been around all the different recumbent forums for sometime to understand. I have been around for some time and I'm still confused. Multipule Personality Disorder is easier to understand than Monkey Island, or possibly it is the same dysfunction.

I've been thinking about this whole scenario for a while. Regarding Spuds, Mcgilla, professor, etc. I believe I have to side with your above comment. Honestly I'm considering putting them all on my ignore list because almost all of what they say is negative or baiting. I don't ride bikes for those reasons and I don't really like to see it on a daily basis.

[sbhikes]

I've been thinking about this whole scenario for a while. Regarding Spuds, Mcgilla, professor, etc. I believe I have to side with your above comment. Honestly I'm considering putting them all on my ignore list because almost all of what they say is negative or baiting. I don't ride bikes for those reasons and I don't really like to see it on a daily basis.
Not only that, but it makes no sense to go on one forum and bad-mouth another forum and/or the people associated with it. It only makes the bad-mouther look like he's in the wrong. To lump in everybody who uses BROL and make accusations deserves a big WTF???

[THE PROFESSOR]

Seths claim have NO foundation without devulging the names of said perps.

If in fact he has proof that would set the Recumbent Web World on its ear then he should come forth with said evidence or shut up. No holds barred Seth.

He can cry wolf all he wants but until he puts the evidence forth he is just like those he loaths.

NOCOM is fast who the hell doesn't know that? But do we have to beat that drum until our hands are bleeding? I may not understand the reason for that, please explain.

Kevin I think you did the right thing vile disgusting posts like that will only lead to more disparity for the members of Chicago's imfamous MI.

I am going to miss my GOTD posts though that's Gun of The Day. Thanks for allowing me to post Kevin.

Ramjet,

Herein lies the problem with disputed posts. Why is it the general BROL consensus as represented by Bryan Ball, Jim Verhuel, Dorkus, etc. are quick to point at MI as a source of concern. For example, the temporary shutdown of Kevin's site (it is back online now) and the reason for it was NOT caused by MI inhabitant. Though we know the identity of the offender, he has suffered personal medical problems of late and perhaps his continuing barrage of vile messages was his way of finding somekind of "fun" as inhumane as they were.

The Professor

[THE PROFESSOR]

Ed,Professor and how many other personas you have:

You're all over the web with degrading either people or companies. The use of "hinted at" and naming Bacchetta as culprits is another example. You have no proof, yet you either slander, defame, knock, ridicule, besmirch any and all.

If you have proof, publish it.

I hope Koffee shuts this thread down. It is a moderated forum Ed. Why are you here?

Slo Joe Recumbo

Slo Joe,

Someone has to reveal the truth and present both sides of the recumbent industry. Not everything is "rosy" as BROL would lead you to believe.

For example, George Reynolds of Reynolds Weld Lab, a manufacturer has produced several examples of bikes that have failed prematurely and some with serious welding and assembly (bottom bracket shells) problems. Even the Bacchetta principals are not recognizing some of his bikes as theirs due to shoddy worksmanship.

You want facts and proof, here it is:

I've seen examples of bottom bracket shells welded on backwards, as in rotated 180 degrees onto the maintube of his bikes rendering them unrideable.

I witnessed the aftermath of a rider with snapped rear stays on his titanium Reynolds bike at a well known rally. He was bloodied up quite a bit but good natured in the confines of the rally. Though George Reynolds was quick to remedy the situation supplying a new bike, there is no excuse for the flaw and failure of the welds. Imagine you're driving a car and it snaps in half dumping you onto the pavement! That is exactly what transpired also endangering the riders behind him. I'm sorry but there is little leeway as an excuse for a frame breaking into pieces right under your butt.

George Reynolds made bikes for Rich Pinto at a time and these examples he wishes to never associate with. Rich can confirm or deny this but I am aware of this matter directly from one of his "Team Bachetta" riders.

Finally, I have seen a recent Titanium bike frame sent to a local retailer who refused to build it up due to design concerns and improper welding exposing their customer to possible injury.

Now how would anybody construe the above information as "no proof, slander, defame, knock, ridicule, besmirch, etc?" What you and BROL are doing is a disservice to the recumbent industry presenting a one sided "commercial" image without full disclosure of pertinent issues.

I have many, many, more examples I can post.

Wanna hear more Slo Joe?

The Professor

[THE PROFESSOR]

I've been thinking about this whole scenario for a while. Regarding Spuds, Mcgilla, professor, etc. I believe I have to side with your above comment. Honestly I'm considering putting them all on my ignore list because almost all of what they say is negative or baiting. I don't ride bikes for those reasons and I don't really like to see it on a daily basis.

John cub,

Putting me on your ignore list is your choice. However the issues I present are true to the best of my knowledge. Should they be negative is a fact, as not everything in the bent industry is as it seems as demonstrated by my post regarding George Reynold's Weldlab.

Knowing all sides, the good and bad of consumers products allows an intelligent decision process.

Avoiding the truth may bite you in the end especially if you ride or buy George's stuff.

I like George as a person but have issues with what he makes for the public.

THE PROFESSOR

[Trsnrtr]

I logged on to BROL this morning and read a post where an individual posted a pointer to this thread. There were half a dozen follow-up posts including one by Bryan.

An hour later the entire thread was vaporized and injected into the ether presumably to be never viewed again.

I only mention this as it is wierd to read threads and then come back later and not be able to find them. Recently, I looked for another post that I had replied to a couple of days earlier and couldn't find it. I have no idea why the thread disappeared and don't really care. It's just plain annoying and makes a person wonder how many other posts are obliterated.

-Dennis

[THE PROFESSOR]

Not only that, but it makes no sense to go on one forum and bad-mouth another forum and/or the people associated with it. It only makes the bad-mouther look like he's in the wrong. To lump in everybody who uses BROL and make accusations deserves a big WTF???

A big WTF is a broad based inaccuracy. Your interpretation of bad-mouth is my way of providing truth and information for consumers to ponder when considering riding bents.

There is no wrong in publishing first hand experience and knowledge of specific products. The facts speak for themselves.

THE PROFESSOR

[THE PROFESSOR]

I logged on to BROL this morning and read a post where an individual posted a pointer to this thread. There were half a dozen follow-up posts including one by Bryan.

An hour later the entire thread was vaporized and injected into the ether presumably to be never viewed again.

I only mention this as it is wierd to read threads and then come back later and not be able to find them. Recently, I looked for another post that I had replied to a couple of days earlier and couldn't find it. I have no idea why the thread disappeared and don't really care. It's just plain annoying and makes a person wonder how many other posts are obliterated.

-Dennis

Dennis,

Such is the nature of BROL. Their continual avoidance of clear documented facts regarding serious defects with THEIR ADVERTISERS has to be presented for a informed consumer decision.

And any reference to these issues are certainly to be "deleted" from the BROL "Vbulletin board."

What Bryan fails to understand is, the truth will continue to published over and over again elsewhere, and BROL members will eventually run into it. Bryan can not control anything other than what is in his board via deletions, editing, or banning.

Be it as it may, this entire thread can also be deleted at the discretion of these boards moderators however the information presented has been factual and is on topic and a concern for any consumer of recumbent bikes.

THE PROFESSOR

[Slo Joe Recumbo]

Professor,

Your answer has nothing to do with what I complained about: Innuendo and hints of wrongdoing with no facts, specifically the mention of Bacchetta and supposed vile acts. Where is the support or proof of this? Your response is an example of what YOU think should be covered in an e-zine. If you have such strong beliefs that there isn't a forum for accurate reporting, start one of your own.

If you have a problem with George Reynolds products, then start such a thread and let others with different views post and reply. Don't bury condemning someone's product in another thread. Be right up front and take the heat from the other side.

The title of this thread has absolutely nothing to support it. I suggest you "as a Professor" look up hypocrisy and corruption.

For example the definiton of hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. An act or instance of such falseness.

Professor, please ask ED to supply any examples of falseness or acts of falseness. The rest of the posting has nothing to do with the title.

Corruption: Comes from corrupt. Here's what corrupt means:
Marked by immorality and perversion; depraved.
Venal; dishonest: a corrupt mayor.
Containing errors or alterations, as a text: a corrupt translation.
Archaic. Tainted; putrid.

Taking the above definitions to heart, where have you seen anything dishonest or in error?

Sorry, again Ed should be answering that. So Ed, if you're reading this support your claim that BROL is hypocritical and corrupt.

So what do you profess?

[ChiliDog]

Is it really "Ed"? If not, then it is pretty low to parade as someone else who has been respected in the bent community.

[THE PROFESSOR]

Professor,

Your answer has nothing to do with what I complained about: Innuendo and hints of wrongdoing with no facts, specifically the mention of Bacchetta and supposed vile acts. Where is the support or proof of this? Your response is an example of what YOU think should be covered in an e-zine. If you have such strong beliefs that there isn't a forum for accurate reporting, start one of your own.

If you have a problem with George Reynolds products, then start such a thread and let others with different views post and reply. Don't bury condemning someone's product in another thread. Be right up front and take the heat from the other side.

The title of this thread has absolutely nothing to support it. I suggest you "as a Professor" look up hypocrisy and corruption.

For example the definiton of hypocrisy: The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. An act or instance of such falseness.

Professor, please ask ED to supply any examples of falseness or acts of falseness. The rest of the posting has nothing to do with the title.

Corruption: Comes from corrupt. Here's what corrupt means:
Marked by immorality and perversion; depraved.
Venal; dishonest: a corrupt mayor.
Containing errors or alterations, as a text: a corrupt translation.
Archaic. Tainted; putrid.

Taking the above definitions to heart, where have you seen anything dishonest or in error?

Sorry, again Ed should be answering that. So Ed, if you're reading this support your claim that BROL is hypocritical and corrupt.

So what do you profess?

Slo Joe,

I profess your contentions are baseless as the specific examples I've posted are factual. They are pertinent to BROL as it continues to NOT supply the consumer with truth. Corruption starts off with deception, and BROL is guilty. Bryan knows about the incidents I've mentioned but you'll not see it mentioned.

Yeah, BROL is hypocrital AND corrupt not matter what you think.

Do you not deny there is a financial interest BROL has with it's sponsors and to not publish faults with their products is self serving?

THE PROFESSOR

[THE PROFESSOR]

hmm and to remember that at one time I actually respected Ed and thought he was a real cool guy back when I first met him at Northbrook and we all went out to eat together at that chinese or canton place. What has happened to him since then? Some weird chemical imbalance? I can tell you now that I have no respect for him and never will again.

Chris,

I can't speak for Ed but do you really think anybody CARES what you think of him? There has been many whom has posted what they think of you too. All of this is irrelevant. Judgement of individuals should be left private.

THE PROFESSOR

[THE PROFESSOR]

Gee, I'm an idoit. I have no idea what your talking about? How does one "follow BROL" and just what are their "ideals"?

It is a commercial site. It attracts all sorts of "contributors". I see all recumbent venues represented and covered. Actually I'm more inclined to believe that the detractors of BROL are jealous about it's success.

Wheel Doctor,

When "contributors" post negative facts regarding manufacturer and sponsor's products on the BROL discussion board, they are shortlived, edited, or banned. Therefore you are NOT seeing all recumbent venues and coverage is self serving to BROL and it's sponsors.

There is no jealously on the part of posting facts. Consumer Reports has no affiliation with any advertiser hence can publish complete findings without fear of loss revenue unlike Bryan's site.

The few brave souls who dare speak up with problems with consumer goods are to be commended. Success is a fraud especially if you are aware of safety issues with products resulting in injury to unsuspecting consumers. Because BROL is one source of information for these products, would it not makes sense to present all sides?

The Professor

[Slo Joe Recumbo]

Slo Joe, I profess your contentions are baseless as the specific examples I've posted are factual. They are pertinent to BROL as it continues to NOT supply the consumer with truth. Corruption starts off with deception, and BROL is guilty. Bryan knows about the incidents I've mentioned but you'll not see it mentioned. Yeah, BROL is hypocrital AND corrupt not matter what you think. Do you not deny there is a financial interest BROL has with it's sponsors and to not publish faults with their products is self serving?

THE PROFESSOR

Professor,

Again you use hyperbole and vague statements, but nothing concrete to support that BROL is hypocritical or corrupt. The examples you post may be factual, but rthose examples do nothing to support the headline of this thread or your statement that BROL is hypocritical or corrupt. If you are truly a professor, then you should know the difference between fact and fiction.

There have been many posts on BROL about problems with various recumbent bicycles or parts. They have not been deleted. I suggest you do a search on BROL or would you like me to do that and show you those posts where various faults or problems have been discussed?

Speaking of deleted posts, how do you know Bryan deleted all the posts you mention? Do you again have proof? Any post or thread can be deleted by the originator. Personally, I've removed at least two threads I started because I had second thoughts about what I posted. The same goes for posts when I was in a personal confrontation with someone: That did not belong in the thread. I deleted my posts and the other person deleted their posts. This may be another case where you are like the parchutist who lept from his plane without his parachute: You come to a hasty but perhaps incorrect conclusion.

Of course Bryan has a financial interst with his sponsors. So does every other magazine or private industry in this country. Because the writers on BROL don't do your kind of investigative articles does not make it wrong. There is no place where BROL states that it will be an e-zine that covers the entire recumbent industry and everything associated with it.

Am I standing up for BROL? NO. What I'm doing is pointing out fallacies in the arguements that naysayers like you spew under the guise of championing a cause when all you're really interested in is creating controversy and personal attacks at one person and his business.

You're inconsistent in your arguement. For instance:

Where are the posts from you against the publishing philosophy of RCN?

Where are the posts from you against the publishing philosophy of Bicycling Magazine.

Where are the posts from you against the publishing philosophy of the ERRC magazine.

Where are the posts from you against the publishing philosophy of A to B e-zine.

Where are the posts from you against the publishing philosophy of the Bicycle Retailer.

Where are the posts from you against the publishing philosophy of the Recumbent and Tandem Rider Magazine.

There are many other similar magazines. If you and Ed Gin are so set on taking the reporting of recumbent news to a higher level per your definition, then why are the two of you, and others, not speaking out about the editorial and general content of any of the other above publications?

If you're going to champion a cause, then go after everyone who doesn't do what you've set as your objective, mission, or ideal.

Your posts and mine aren't about recumbents. If you want to take this debate off line and not clutter up the forum with non-recumbent related topics, let me know.

[Spuds McDoogle]

SloJoe,
My posts are about recumbents. I want to race Johnny Schlitter and his blue killer bee team on the HPV track in Morris, IL this May. All 6 of them can paceline and draft each other. I'll be solo on my carbon gelcoat Thinagamajig with a belly full of PBJ from lunch.

Please by all means ask Johnny and his paceline train to come to Morris when you go back to the Bachettta forums. Tell him Spuds wants to play the pedal fast track game with him while the HPV chip timing system is turned on and the official has a checkered flag waiting. If you talk to Gtr over at BROL please ask him to bring some TBones to Morris. Those TBones can join the killer bee paceline and it will be like the TDF peleton.

We'll see what recumbent design gets to the checkered flag first. Hope you can join in the fun SloJoe. If not to race to spectate and cheer on Johnny and the killer bees. You can boo all the Thingamajig racers. It will be fun like a WWF event.

Spuds

Your posts and mine aren't about recumbents.

[Ramjet]

Ha Ha I have to laugh about all this. I am rethingking my postion on the T-Bone and the Prof...fffffesor is right a T-Bone did suffer a failure. It broke right in half at 20 MPH. I almost took out 4 other riders that were drafting me. I was bloodied up pretty bad. George did get me a new frame but I lost signifcant money damaged wheels derailure etc. I have to admit I really didn't think about the other folks out there that may own a bike that could have same sort of failure and protected this incident but I have to say that may have been wrong to do so. If someone else gets hurt becaise I was protecting Georges reputation with my silence that makes me a little nervous and uneasy. So yes if you have T-Bone check the rear stays the weld to the rear frame plate. I was lucky and it could have resulted in many folks getting hurt including me. Again I was bloody but survived and lost some cash but what is being said about the George Reynolds bike is completely true in my case.

I also have seen Bryan lock donw thread baout he Rans seats that in my opinion should have kept going. Rams seat was changed and it sucked big time I had one and got a prro expensive response form Rans baout the product. I wa nto the only one and in fact I did nto start thtread. But the respons form Rams was unacceptatble and Bryan shold have le tthe thread continue. Thos are tow exmaples tht i differed in Opinion with Brayn abot allowing thread to continue. BUt the personal stuff is the bad part fo the Net and I agree with Slo Joe and others who think this should stop.

[Slo Joe Recumbo]

SloJoe,
My posts are about recumbents. I want to race Johnny Schlitter and his blue killer bee team on the HPV track in Morris, IL this May. All 6 of them can paceline and draft each other. I'll be solo on my carbon gelcoat Thinagamajig with a belly full of PBJ from lunch.

Please by all means ask Johnny and his paceline train to come to Morris when you go back to the Bachettta forums. Tell him Spuds wants to play the pedal fast track game with him while the HPV chip timing system is turned on and the official has a checkered flag waiting. If you talk to Gtr over at BROL please ask him to bring some TBones to Morris. Those TBones can join the killer bee paceline and it will be like the TDF peleton.

We'll see what recumbent design gets to the checkered flag first. Hope you can join in the fun SloJoe. If not to race to spectate and cheer on Johnny and the killer bees. You can boo all the Thingamajig racers. It will be fun like a WWF event.

Spuds

Spuds,

My comments about the posts not being about recumbents was in a reply do The Professor. So unless you're also the professor, write on. You could be the professor....so many posers here hide behind false identities.

As for Bacchetta and GTR, feel free to toss down a gauntlet yourself. I know neither George Reynolds nor the owners of Bacchetta personally. So go on over to the Bacchetta website and either use the "contact us" area or join the forum and ask them to attend the event. Better yet, on the events page of the Bacchetta forum are the scheduled races or events that Bacchetta will attend. Head on over to one of those events.

When it comes to racing I enjoy the race --any bicycle race-- and I don't root for anyone unless that racer is a personal friend. So Spuds, why do you assume I'd boo a thingamajig? Have you read anywhere in my posts that I've got anything at all against thingamajigs? When it comes to cycling, I don't care which brand or model of bike you ride. If I could, I'd own one of each" DF's, MTB's included.

By the way, I don't ride a thingamajig....I ride a whatchamacallit. Oh great, now we're gonna have the my thingamajig is faster than your whatchamacallit wars.

[bentrox!]

BF a study in whining and innuendo.
Honestly guys, please take this somewhere else - maybe back to ARBR, okay?

[Spuds McDoogle]

SloJoe,
I am registered at the Bacchetta forums under Spuds. I have tried to post in Events forum asking if any one from the killer bee team will be at Morris. When I sent the post I got a return message saying "permission denied".

Just wanted to ask the killer bees or any Bacchetta racers if they are going to Morris to race. So I suggested that you be the go between poster and ask Johnny and team if they will be interested in racing. I doubt that the killer bees will show as most of them live in sunny Florida land of the highwheeler but I am hoping they make the trip.

If the killer bees show it will be a whatchamacallit vs. thingamajig HPV showdown.

What could be more fun except for a barrel of monkeys with PBJ.
BTW I aint no professor just a recumbo enthusiast looking forward to a few races with chip timed legit speed data.

Spuds

Spuds,

My comments about the posts not being about recumbents was in a reply do The Professor. So unless you're also the professor, write on. You could be the professor....so many posers here hide behind false identities.

As for Bacchetta and GTR, feel free to toss down a gauntlet yourself. I know neither George Reynolds nor the owners of Bacchetta personally. So go on over to the Bacchetta website and either use the "contact us" area or join the forum and ask them to attend the event. Better yet, on the events page of the Bacchetta forum are the scheduled races or events that Bacchetta will attend. Head on over to one of those events.

When it comes to racing I enjoy the race --any bicycle race-- and I don't root for anyone unless that racer is a personal friend. So Spuds, why do you assume I'd boo a thingamajig? Have you read anywhere in my posts that I've got anything at all against thingamajigs? When it comes to cycling, I don't care which brand or model of bike you ride. If I could, I'd own one of each" DF's, MTB's included.

By the way, I don't ride a thingamajig....I ride a whatchamacallit. Oh great, now we're gonna have the my thingamajig is faster than your whatchamacallit wars.

[lowracer1]

Chris,

I can't speak for Ed but do you really think anybody CARES what you think of him? There has been many whom has posted what they think of you too. All of this is irrelevant. Judgement of individuals should be left private.

THE PROFESSOR


Yep, there ya go. NObody cares. Just like nobody else cares if I race against some wedgies while on a recumbent. YOu guys seem to be the only ones that care and just plain can't let go of it. Harrassing us to go race at the various Hpv races isn't the way to get us to go. The way you guys have acted this winter has done nothing but left me in disgust of your organizaton. Who cares what I think of Ed ? nobody . Exactly......I was talking to you......not others. Seeing as you guys will never post your real names or email addresses, how then is someone supposed to talk to them about such matters in private. Now really............


Maybe you don't realize it, but apparently nobody else cares about what you guys are posting here. This forum used to be popular with many different users. Since you guys have showed up, there aren't hardly any more posts. They've all left and went elsewhere. So what does that say about you?

[Spuds McDoogle]

On the contrary. Bragging about making roadies puke while riding and passing them with a tail faired lowracer proves nothing and has no value to HVP riders or the sport of HPV racing.

If you are fast then you will show up to race Sam Whittingham at:
http://doctorvision.com/grundy/morris2005schedule.jpg

No one cares about bogus recumbent rider "roadie smoking" tales. Please show what you have against fellow recumbent racers at an HPV race for a change. Recumbents race recumbents not DFs.

Spuds

Yep, there ya go. NObody cares. Just like nobody else cares if I race against some wedgies while on a recumbent.

[lowracer1]

HPV racing is dead. Why would anybody want to race in stock class against a nocom? I hear they're supposed to be the fastest stock recumbent on earth by a huge margin. Unless everybody in stock class has a nocom, then it won't be a good race. It would be like racing against roadies. You aren't comparing apples to apples when you race a nocom against a regular lowracer. There should probably be a splitter bike class of its own. Why would anyone want to bring a moped to a race full of crotch rockets. You guys think you are so cool because now you have the fastest technology of bikes. All it takes is some other strong riders to get nocoms and level the playing field. Then you are back to square 1 again.

[Spuds McDoogle]

All it takes is some other strong riders to get nocoms and level the playing field.

That is what I am looking forward to. Very strong riders with splitter bikes to post faster speeds on the HPV track.

Are you interested in the 1 hr 30+mph non drafting time trial? You are young enough to train for the challenge at 37.

The days of recumbent riders bragging about passing roadies are finished. There are legitimate speed goals to go after and those goals have nothing to do with USCF racing speeds. The technology is here if you are willing to get involved and pursue HPV records instead of roadies on a club ride who do not ride recumbents.

Spuds

[megaman]

Maybe you don't realize it, but apparently nobody else cares about what you guys are posting here. This forum used to be popular with many different users. Since you guys have showed up, there aren't hardly any more posts. They've all left and went elsewhere. So what does that say about you?

Well said. I could say a lot more about this thread, but it's not worth my time.

Let's try to turn the recumbent forum into something worth reading again.

[Ramjet]

Spuds it is obvious to me what you are trying to accomplish here but the other associations or the disdain for the actions of some that are put into the Monkeys group has destroyed hope for you to get the race thing going.

ANother thing is if the Monkey group expressed thier displeasure in said posts as some have in private emails I think the credibility would be restored or a step in the right direction anyhow.

Trash talk and challenges are one thing degrading someone or thier family is entirely different. Now Seth has claimed to have knowledge of who the poster on the MI site where that posted the real bad crapola and he indicates that they are not of the Imfamous Monkey caln then he should come forward and vendicate the injustice that has been thrust upon the Monkey clan by some posers. That is if he has nothing to hide.

As I said on several sites I know Chris and John and both are good guys just as I have met several of the Monkey guys they as well are decent fellows in person and maybe all the time if the posters of degrading posts are really not members of the Monkey clan. I can respect that and even accept it, as many can if the evidence is put forth but no evidence, no can believe it.

I think Chris brings up a valid point though on classification of the NOCOM is it really Stock? Anyone have the definition of the classification or qualification of the hardware of bikes and how they are classified?

I mean it may be stretch but maybe NOCOM should race against Streamliners? I didn't think so. Does a TF LR have to race in Super Stock? Could sonmeone explain this to me?

Chris as we talked out in NY you have take this stuff with intent that it is presented useless nonsense.

[ChiliDog]

I wish someone would close down THIS thread... it's boring, pointless, and dull. :(