Mountain Biking - How to build ladders.

I've been freeriding for about a year now but I just started building my first stunt, (poorly) pictured below.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/modena476/bikestunt.jpg

Now the "log" is more like a 50 foot tree, and instead of building a normal ladders I'm simply nailing thick, sturdy sticks onto the tree. Now for the questions;

-What is the best type of wood to nail to the tree?
-Can I even USE sticks or should i use plywood?
-How far should they be spaced apart?
-Do the nails hold better in drywood?

nails will probably hold better in drywood. Space them about 5 inches apart, and the best thing to use is 2by4 cut as thin as you like (depending on your skill level).
I have made one similar to what you are talking about, and a nicer one where you actualy make ladders out of 2by4's, then put them on top of posts wich you have stuck in the ground. Pritty cool.

I see. But are thinner slabs of wood more challenging or easier? I guessing harder.

Also, with the stunt you built, are you saying you placed logs next to the tree and nailed the 2x4s to the logs? I will try to get some pics tomorrow if it helps at all.

Thiner slabs (as in thiner width) are more chalenging because there is less area to put your tire on.

use screws they are so much better, nails will pull out and you stunt wont last long.

Should I nail the screws in?

ummm... no, use a drill

use a cordless drill. Screws are better

I'm not even sure if I have a cordless but noise is also an issue. It's in a public park and building stuff and cutting down stuff would get me in trouble. Luckily the grounds keeper is like 90 years old.

Umm if you don't have permition, don't build it. It will give riders a bad name and also you will put lots of effort into making it then the council will tear it down.

I'm not even sure if I have a cordless but noise is also an issue. It's in a public park and building stuff and cutting down stuff would get me in trouble. Luckily the grounds keeper is like 90 years old.

Then don't do it. :(

yea if your building on a public park take extreme caution. I would seek WRITTEN permission from the proper authority first and build as much of it as you can at your home. And see if you can get a hold of a cordless, you will shave off 6 hours off building time

If you don't have permission, don't do it. Lets use our heads here. People like you are why riders get a bad name.

i dont think riders have a bad name. He might get permission, you never know.

Doing things like building stunts in public parks without asking makes us look like angels. Mountain bikers in Cleveland got screwed because of things like this in the past.

I'm not even sure if I have a cordless but noise is also an issue. It's in a public park and building stuff and cutting down stuff would get me in trouble. Luckily the grounds keeper is like 90 years old.
Then don't do it. It's people like you who get LEGITIMATE trails shut down for the rest of us.

I'm not even sure if I have a cordless but noise is also an issue. It's in a public park and building stuff and cutting down stuff would get me in trouble. Luckily the grounds keeper is like 90 years old.

I can't believe you're even posting this here. Like everyone else said, don't screw it up for everyone else.

No, I'll build it, despite your warnings. I'm not giving riders a bad name by building something deep into the woods, where it isn't even visible. Cow makes sense by telling me to ask permission, but you people that whine about giving "riders bad names" seriously need to think. It's not like the stunt I'm building is in the middle of a trail that we would fly down on freeride bikes, swerving around dogs and hikers, it's off trial, and there's not even a small trail leading to it. Any wood cut is either dead or is a small shrub that may get in my way.

And for you people that are concerned about me "screwing it up" for everybody just needs to toughen up. I'm sorry, but if I got caught by a 90 year old man, building a small ladder in a small, poorly maintained public park in a little town in CT, I highly doubt he would report the incident to other park rangers and groundskeepers, who probably wouldn't be guarding there parks with shotguns, threatening to shoot any mountain bikers.

People, get over it. Stop being such angels and if you wanna have a sweet freeriding experience, your gonna have to bend the rules. I have any right to build it there anyway. I maintain the trails there, rake leaves out from the paths, build bridges across streams, and direct water paths.

I have any right to build it there anyway. I maintain the trails there, rake leaves out from the paths, build bridges across streams, and direct water paths.

Well, you could certainly get permission from the parks department then right?

If you can't, don't build it.

It is great that you are maintaining the trails but It certainly does not give you the right to build whatever you want even if it is deep in the woods.

Getting caught by the 90 year old park supervisor is not your only concern.

*imagine*

4 twelve year old kids are riding bikes in local park when they come upon your stunt. They try it because they are fearless. Third kid that tries it f's himself up. Call EMT's. Parents sue park and town. Town settles and says some rogue mountain bikers built illegal jumps and structures. PArk shut down to mountain bikes becuase of incident. All CT parks shut down to MT. bikes becuase of this incident. Then NY, MA, and NJ follow suit. Then, The entire east coast............

you follow??

Well, you could certainly get permission from the parks department then right?

If you can't, don't build it.

It is great that you are maintaining the trails but It certainly does not give you the right to build whatever you want even if it is deep in the woods.

Getting caught by the 90 year old park supervisor is not your only concern.

*imagine*

4 twelve year old kids are riding bikes in local park when they come upon your stunt. They try it because they are fearless. Third kid that tries it f's himself up. Call EMT's. Parents sue park and town. Town settles and says some rogue mountain bikers built illegal jumps and structures. PArk shut down to mountain bikes becuase of incident. All CT parks shut down to MT. bikes becuase of this incident. Then NY, MA, and NJ follow suit. Then, The entire east coast............

you follow??


I think we're wasting our time with this kid. I'm sure he's too young to have learned to respect anything but his own wishes.

get permission first, seriously. You will make a lot of shift for yourself and others. People get worked up about this stuff. So just ask the proper authorities, im guessing the park managers here. Its not that hard

No, I'll build it, despite your warnings. I'm not giving riders a bad name by building something deep into the woods, where it isn't even visible. Cow makes sense by telling me to ask permission, but you people that whine about giving "riders bad names" seriously need to think. It's not like the stunt I'm building is in the middle of a trail that we would fly down on freeride bikes, swerving around dogs and hikers, it's off trial, and there's not even a small trail leading to it. Any wood cut is either dead or is a small shrub that may get in my way.

And for you people that are concerned about me "screwing it up" for everybody just needs to toughen up. I'm sorry, but if I got caught by a 90 year old man, building a small ladder in a small, poorly maintained public park in a little town in CT, I highly doubt he would report the incident to other park rangers and groundskeepers, who probably wouldn't be guarding there parks with shotguns, threatening to shoot any mountain bikers.

People, get over it. Stop being such angels and if you wanna have a sweet freeriding experience, your gonna have to bend the rules. I have any right to build it there anyway. I maintain the trails there, rake leaves out from the paths, build bridges across streams, and direct water paths.

Its going to be kids like you freaking out when trail access gets more and more difficult to maintain by illegal stunts being built. Everywhere is dealing with access issues, and people like you are making it more difficult than it needs to be.

Toughen up. We almost lost fromme (north shore) because of renegade builders AND dumbass kids acting like jerks. A mountain in California has been completely shut down to anything but xc bikes because of renegade building AND poor build of main trails causing injury. Trail access all over is at risk.

Just because you are too young to see it, doesn't mean we need to get tough, it means you need to open your eyes to reality.

People, get over it. Stop being such angels and if you wanna have a sweet freeriding experience, your gonna have to bend the rules. I have any right to build it there anyway. I maintain the trails there, rake leaves out from the paths, build bridges across streams, and direct water paths.


Thats what Dangerous Dan Cowan said until the north shore was almost lost. Guess what, thats an outdated approach. Mountains are now being regulated and built by the cities/resorts to facilitate your needs.



I see. But are thinner slabs of wood more challenging or easier? I guessing harder.

Also, with the stunt you built, are you saying you placed logs next to the tree and nailed the 2x4s to the logs? I will try to get some pics tomorrow if it helps at all.


Don't use slabs. GEt a saw and use dead wood. It will give a more shore feel. The shore and other spots don't use flat pieces of wood, but cut pieces of dry wood nailed down, makes the ride harder.

Oh and get permission.

I'm not defending the kid but wasn't this the same way North Shore was built. They were stunts off the main trail where no one could find them. I remember watching The Emergence and them saying, they never told anyone where the trail was only close friends. I'm just curious on everyones feedback.

Well ya, but hindsight being 20x20...thats whats causing the problems now. They had permission for a few and built many (some of them well beyond sane too). Its cool at the time, but for the last year the north shore has been fighting to stay open, recently getting an almost repreave.

Thats really my only point. If you work ahead of time with the bike clubs and township you can open legal trails, which stay open.

The issue with building stunts or illegal trails is that the State's Parks and Recreation Dept's all communicate with each other. Thus they learn from each other. Rogue trail building is becoming a bigger and bigger issue. There are lots of things to consider. The one big thing that Parks and Rec Dept's all consider first and foremost is the inherent liability. It scares them. SO, they simply shut down an area!

Why not go to www.imba.com and do some research. There is a lot of good information on how to build trails and how to get permission to build stunts.

Well, first off, I'm not too young, almost 16 to be exact.

But anyway, I know your anti- building thoughts would apply to big mountain biking and hiking places but this park is probably 10 acres of unkept trails and trees. Nobody could find it, except a couple of punk asses I'm about to tell you about.......

Last night my uncle, brother and I went to go check out the stunt. Everything was going alright but I was hammering, and making some noise. So we see flashlights at the bottom of the hill and start to get a little freaked, but we stayed and acted casual. When they finally popped up, I was relieved to see 2 college age kids with beers just walking around. They had no idea what I was building so I tried to explain. They seemed ok, and just watched as I sawed away at a dead tree. When it started getting dark, we said our good-byes and biked away home. Then, after school today, when I came back to the stunt, it was gone. The 500 lb oak had been pushed down a huge hill, and it is impossible to get up.

While many of you may say, "o man u totaly deserved that!!1", your wrong. My friend and I worked hard on that for a week straight, buying tools, running there after school to get a couple extra minutes in, and it was gone while we slept. This park is a tiny park, which is not popular or maintained well at all. Nobody goes there except for dog-walkers and the occasion jogger. Nobody bikes there because frankly, it just isn't worth it without any fun stuff.

yet another reason to actually get permission to build your stunts.

if you had gotten permission, which it sounds like you could if it is truly such a remote and almost vacant park, you would have been able to report the vandals who destroyed your work. being that your work was actually illegal, however, you are left with no recourse.

if you are going to put so much time into a project, why not put just a little more in and make it legitimate so you can protect it. that way your work can be seen as a true addition to the park and you will not be lumped in the same category as the jerks who destroyed your work.

I'm not going to make a point of how young or old you might be. The fact is that you ARE old enough to understand rules and laws. Not to keep beating a dead horse here, you absolutly need permission from the land owner. Period. Whether you are clearing brush from an existing trail or building stunts like you and your friends were, you need permission. Having a set of rules in place for land management prevents lousy trails and stunts from being built, stops everyone from overrunning a piece of land with their own personal stunts, and tries to insure the longevity of the trails for future users. And yes, unfortunatly a lot these rules also boil down to liability issues.

That stinks that someone ruined you're hard work, but if you had permission to build, you might have some form of recourse legally, or at least brought the vandalism to light. Right now, you and the parties who pushed the log down the hill are both in the wrong.

Try to gain some good out of this though. Look for a club nearby that has trail maintaince days. You can join up with likeminded people with common interests and build legal trails and stunts where allowed. Hundreds of clubs are looking for people like you who want to be involved and build trails so make good use of your time.

No matter how harmless your building may have seemed, no matter how hidden, no matter how underused you thought/think that land is, you need permission. Without it, you are doing MTBing as a sport harm. Just do a quick search for trail closures or google the "Hick Hucksters" and read the story on their problems arising from stunts in Mountain Biking magazine.

I sincerly doubt anyone is really trying to break you down here. They're just trying to make sure you understand the larger implications from your actions, learn from them, and continue to contribute to MTBing in a way that benefits the sport rather than harms it.

Maybe build a platfrom that you can take off the tree, and cover up with branches. That way its not permenant, and you didn't 'build' on public land, you just left something there.
Imagine if some stupid 12 y.o. finds your ramp, jumps it w/o a helmet and breaks something or worse. The village/parks dep will get sued, they will then have a very good motive to patrol for anyone riding like idiots.

I'm not going to make a point of how young or old you might be. The fact is that you ARE old enough to understand rules and laws. Not to keep beating a dead horse here, you absolutly need permission from the land owner. Period. Whether you are clearing brush from an existing trail or building stunts like you and your friends were, you need permission. Having a set of rules in place for land management prevents lousy trails and stunts from being built, stops everyone from overrunning a piece of land with their own personal stunts, and tries to insure the longevity of the trails for future users. And yes, unfortunatly a lot these rules also boil down to liability issues.

That stinks that someone ruined you're hard work, but if you had permission to build, you might have some form of recourse legally, or at least brought the vandalism to light. Right now, you and the parties who pushed the log down the hill are both in the wrong.

Try to gain some good out of this though. Look for a club nearby that has trail maintaince days. You can join up with likeminded people with common interests and build legal trails and stunts where allowed. Hundreds of clubs are looking for people like you who want to be involved and build trails so make good use of your time.

No matter how harmless your building may have seemed, no matter how hidden, no matter how underused you thought/think that land is, you need permission. Without it, you are doing MTBing as a sport harm. Just do a quick search for trail closures or google the "Hick Hucksters" and read the story on their problems arising from stunts in Mountain Biking magazine.

I sincerly doubt anyone is really trying to break you down here. They're just trying to make sure you understand the larger implications from your actions, learn from them, and continue to contribute to MTBing in a way that benefits the sport rather than harms it.
Excellent post

Look mate, getting permission is a perfect way to keep the stunts in place. You spent a night making your stunt and it was torn down. Think of some people I know, they spent months on end, holidays, after school, weekends every spare minute they had for about 7months maintaining and building DJ's. Then one day they are knocked down, bull dozer tracks every where. They were pissed, you know what happened next, they talked to the council, they went to meetings. They fought for the right to have a place to ride, there were no legal places to ride and guess what. After about a month of petitioning and annoying the council, they were given permission on some land to build.

I admit, yes I ride on illegal tracks, I help maintain them but I have never built one, if it's there I will help maintain it. Here we have no where to ride DH that is legal within 25mins of driving. The area we ride is in great dispute at the moment. A couple of residents want us gone, the council tried and now they know, they can not stop over 100 riders from riding in this area, they tried and failed miserably. Now guess what's happening, we (cyclists) are in negotiations with the council to get a legal area for us AND the state government is now building a terrain park for us. I think this park is going to have 2 or 3 DH tracks, a drop and jump park a 4X track and 1 or 2 XC loops. It is going to be the biggest MTB park in Aus.

Talk to the council, tell them you have no where to ride, keep annoying them till they listen and get support from fellow riders.

I have no clue what is going one.............................................dont build the dang thing its not cool

People, get over it. Stop being such angels and if you wanna have a sweet freeriding experience, your gonna have to bend the rules. I have any right to build it there anyway. I maintain the trails there, rake leaves out from the paths, build bridges across streams, and direct water paths.

If I "wanna have a sweet freeriding experience" I'll find natural features to ride.

Don't be a jerk. There's gotta be somewhere else you can build this thing if it makes no difference where it is. I'd suggest your yard, for starters.

Well, first off, I'm not too young, almost 16 to be exact.



That says it all- I rest my case.