Training & Nutrition - getting frustrated

Hi everyone, This loosing weight thing sure is getting frustrating. I have been working really hard for about 3 weeks now to lose weight. I am 39yo 5'8" and 236LBS. For almost the past month I have lived a sensible diet. No white anything (breads, mayonaise,pasta's...etc..) Everything has been replaced with wheat and even that has been at a minimum. I have some whole grain cerial for breakfast, piece of fruit for a snack, chicken breast for lunch, fruit for a snack and either a lean cut of steak or chicken (skinless) for dinner. I have drank nothing but water for a month now and LOTS of it. I have ridden religously a minimum of 25 miles, 4 times a week. So far my total weight loss has been 4 lbs for the 3 weeks. My clothes do fit better..not a huge differance but better and I do feel better.
Am I missing something here? May there be another issue?

I love this forum and it has givin me lots of drive to continue. Thanks all.

Hi everyone, This loosing weight thing sure is getting frustrating. I have been working really hard for about 3 weeks now to lose weight. I am 39yo 5'8" and 136lbs. For almost the past month I have lived a sensible diet. No white anything (breads, mayonaise,pasta's...etc..) Everything has been replaced with wheat and even that has been at a minimum. I have some whole grain cerial for breakfast, piece of fruit for a snack, chicken breast for lunch, fruit for a snack and either a lean cut of steak or chicken (skinless) for dinner. I have drank nothing but water for a month now and LOTS of it. I have ridden religously a minimum of 25 miles, 4 times a week. So far my total weight loss has been 4 lbs for the 3 weeks. My clothes do fit better..not a huge differance but better and I do feel better.
Am I missing something here? May there be another issue?

I love this forum and it has givin me lots of drive to continue. Thanks all.
maybe I'm missing something but why are you trying to lose weight? 5'8 136 pounds?!?!?!

Two questions:

(1) How fast do you expect to lose weight? Over one pound a week sounds like a good rate to me.

(2) How much weight do you really need to lose? I'm 39, 5'8" and my goal weight - what I weighed in high school - is 140.

maybe I'm missing something but why are you trying to lose weight? 5'8 136 pounds?!?!?!



SORRY, I meant 236lbs currently with a goal weight of around 175lbs give or take. My first goal is 195 than I will takle the other 25lbs.

SORRY, I meant 236lbs currently
oh :lol: I gotcha

How fast are you riding on your 25 mile rides? Are you getting your heartrate up? Also three weeks isn't that long, but it sounds like you're doing the right things.

Two questions:

(1) How fast do you expect to lose weight? Over one pound a week sounds like a good rate to me.

(2) How much weight do you really need to lose? I'm 39, 5'8" and my goal weight - what I weighed in high school - is 140.


1. I WAS hoping for 10lbs a month lose because of the drastic changes I made. Maybe that is a little much to hope for.

2. I need to lose 40lbs and Want to lose 60ish.

How fast are you riding on your 25 mile rides? Are you getting your heartrate up? .

Is this were all us cyclists lie...LoL.....My true average from the computer is 15.4-15.6mph average. I dont have a HRM but my heart rate is very much elevated for much of the ride. I recover pretty quick from the climbs but yes......I do push the pace.

Over a pound a week, I wouldn't be too worried about that result at all.

I spent a year losing 50#. As time went by, I was able to ride harder and my body quit craving the crap food that I had been adicted to. I would say that you are doing just fine.

I WAS hoping for 10lbs a month lose because of the drastic changes I made. Maybe that is a little much to hope for.

10 lbs is far too much to hope for. It's too much to lose safely. A pound of fat is 3500 calories, so to lose 10 pounds requies a calorie deficit of 35,000 calories, or a daily deficit of 1167 calories. That's a starvation diet that is unhealty. Your body would be forced to consume lean muscle with that kind of diet.

Aim for a weekly calorie deficit of 3500-5000. You'll lose fat and maintain muscle.

Crash diets just don't work over the long haul. I think you're doing great by choosing foods that are healthier (ie: avoiding processed foods) and with your exercise. But I hate the word "diet". It implies temporary changes, and for you to make this a permenant thing, you have to think "lifestyle change". Eating well, choosing good foods, doing cardio at least 4- 5 days a week, and doing weightlifting regularly will definitely be something you incorporate into your lifestyle. And as you continue to lose, you'll feel the benefits of being healthier, then you'll SEE the benefits of being healthier, and that should motivate you to get to your goal.

Think long term lifestyle change. You'll get there.

Koffee

How long have you been over-weight? Have you stabilized or were you in the process of gaining about 1 pound per week. One thing I noticed, is that when I went on a diet, I would compare my "diet" calories to what I had previously been eating. That is not fair, as I was continually gaining weight. If you use a calorie counter and see what calories are needed to maintain your normal over-weight, you will probably notice that is was less than you were eating. So....first you have stopped gaining weight, and you have lost weight. In addition, weight does not always fall off at the rate you are consuming less calories. Often, I will maintain the same weight for a couple of weeks, drop 1 pound the next week, gain a pound, and then drop 4 pounds. I can eat just about anything and not gain weight for about a week. So, if I had just been patient, more pounds would have dropped off. Hang in there!

Your goal is unrealistic. Plus, you are not working out long or hard enough. 25 minutes is a warm up. Hoping for a big loss after such a short period of time is setting yourself up for failure.

It took me 3 years to lose 30 lbs. Every year I gain 5-10 in the winter and lose it in the Spring/Summer (old guys who get fat in winter racing team!!!).

Your diet sounds extreme. There is nothing wrong with white bread or pasta. As far as weigh loss is concerned, a calorie is a calorie. Nutritionally, whole grains are better, but if you eat 400 calories of whole wheat breat vs. 400 calories of white bread, makes no difference as far as weight loss is concern.

My advise, worry less about the food and and make more time to work out longer and harder concentrating on at least one really hard day of riding with a ton of climbing.

Sounds like you gained some muscle. Speaking of muscle, are you doing any work in the gym?

It will happen, just give it time. I was 230 pounds about 18 months ago (I'm also 5'8", age 38). Been hovering around 195 for a while and am losing that now towards my final goal of 185 or so.

Proof is in the pudding!

I scanned through the replies, so hopefully I didn't miss something. One thing you have to remember is that muscle weighs more than fat. So as you work out, you are building muscle weight at the same time you are losing fat weight. Riding regularly, you're going to build muscle in the legs.

Another thing (my plan btw) is the long steady ride idea. Get your body burning fat by riding longer distances, and at fairly high cadance. In other words don't work hard, don't mash on the pedals, but keep your legs spinning.

One more thing I would add to the other advice is a little cross-training, swimming, and running are other great ways to lose a few extra pounds and help with toning. Also a run is a good way to burn more calories if time is an issue. I wouldn't be so hard on yourself, it sounds like you are heading in the right direction and just need to stick with it.
I also want to second Koffee's advice, you can't think of it as a diet, you need to think of it as a permanent change.

. Plus, you are not working out long or hard enough. 25 minutes is a warm up. Hoping for a big loss after such a short period of time is setting yourself up for failure. .

25 MILES..not 25 minutes........Thanks for the info guys.....Sounds like I am doing ok and I need to hit the gym and do more than just cycle.
Thank you all again.

Sounds like you gained some muscle. Speaking of muscle, are you doing any work in the gym? !

Great pics!! Proof is right there. No work in the gym but I guess that will be my next step.
Thank you

Give it some time, if you keep eating right and riding, you'll lose weight. Not only that, but you'll become much stronger, which will allow you to be able to push yourself harder and farther, in turn burning even more calories. Don't even think about your weight while you're doing this, hide the scale from yourself, and just go out and ride for the sake of riding. It'll make it much easier.

I've had some success but not in the way I expected...
On Easter 2004 (after a huge dinner) I weighed 310 lbs and my grandfather just had open heart surgery (my other grandfather died from heart disease). My blood pressure was 135/95 and my cholesterol was about 250. I'm also a diabetic who had blood sugars that were out of control at the time.

That evening, I started a way of eating (not a "diet") called "Sugar Busters" (reduced carbs, focusing on lots of whole, less-processed foods). After a few months, I started doing Yoga every single day (I've not missed a day since I started). After a few more months, I gave up all beverages except for water and an occasional glass of milk. This spring I took up cycling and last weekend I rode in my first organized ride and completed 50 miles and felt very good, tired, but good.

Today, I weigh 240 lbs, my blood pressure is 110/70, my cholesterol is 101 and my blood sugars are near normal (a1c=6.2).

Here's the funny part: After I dropped about 20 pounds (many months ago) people would ask "What are you doing?" I'd religiously answer "It's this really great diet called SugarBusters!" Now, after losing 70 pounds (20-30 more to go, by the way) my answer to that question has become: "Well, there's a lot to it, but it basically boils down to exercise and eating right."

My point is: The pattern above is working for me. But for you: Do whatever (reasonable) diet you think you can live with. Do whatever exercise you can fit in. Any improvment is a move in the right direction. Celebrate your successes on a daily basis. Realize that the path to a more healthy you isn't a straight line, but is more of an upward spiral filled with progess and setbacks. If you stick to it, and constantly find ways to make better daily choices, you'll eventually end up in a lifestyle of "just eating right and exercising".

Good luck and hang in there!
Dewbert

Quick update. 226.5 this morning ...so down about 10lbs since my post 16 days ago. Thanks for the support. This is going to happen :)

word. good job

Quick update. 226.5 this morning ...so down about 10lbs since my post 16 days ago. Thanks for the support. This is going to happen :)

Congratulations, that's a big change. Just be aware that your current rate of weight loss isn't sustainable over time. Your rate will slow as you lose more weight, so don't let that get you down when it happens. 2 lbs per week is an excellent weight loss rate.

Your rate will slow as you lose more weight, so don't let that get you down when it happens. 2 lbs per week is an excellent weight loss rate.


Thanks Terry....I am very excited about the future and my health...not to mention my hill climbing..:)
So far it has been pretty easy. Lots of chicken and lots of riding.

Thanks Terry....I am very excited about the future and my health...not to mention my hill climbing..:)
So far it has been pretty easy. Lots of chicken and lots of riding.

Do you still ride 25 miles daily or have you increased the distance? Just curious.

Sounds like you are doing great. The way to lose weight and keep weight off is to change lifestyle and diet, not to go on a diet. The fact that your clothes were fitting better even though you felt you had not lost much weight showed that you were building muscle and losing fat.

Remember to eat enough (especially with the exercise). If you eat too little, your body essentially goes into starvation mode, slows the metabolism down, and cannibalizes muscle tissue instead of the fats. You will lose weight but also lose muscle tone and health. As soon as you start eating more, the body overcompensates then you gain it all back and more. That is part of the reason why it can be easy to lose weight, but very hard to keep it off.

The more you exercise, the more you need to eat, even if you do want to lose weight.

Even if you do exercise and eat right while you are losing weight, your body is still responding to the lack of its usual food (we evolved to respond to famine, the food surpluses we have today are something very new in human history). Your metabolism will be slower tan someone who has never lost weight, and it will take a couple of years for your body to actually lose the fat cells and return to its normal metabolism. There is a lot of scientific research on this subject occurring in the US with the fattening of our country. makes interesting reading.

I lost 85 pounds and have kept it off for a year (so far) by keeping track of everything I eat (and how much) and comparing it to my calorie needs (including how much I exercise). Like you, I have changed my diet significantly but I also allow the occasional treat or else I would go nuts. if you bike enough, you can eat more!

It does get boring and a pain to keep such a close watch on everything, but it has worked for me and allowed me to keep focused. Also, it does become easier.

Sorry for the extra long post! Good luck and keep it up!

MichaelS

Do you still ride 25 miles daily or have you increased the distance? Just curious.

Most of my rides are still in the 20 to 30 mile range 4 times a week (one of those is a 20mph group ride) plus riding the mountain bike with the trail-a-bike attached and my 4 year old on that. I keep telling myself that I need to up the milage but I just never seem to have enough time and still get the honey do list done......Also, I have only been back on the bike for about 4 weeks now and I dont want to burn myself out.
Maybe tomorow I will do my loop twice for 40+ miles.

I like your insight to eat healthier. I did a little research on weight loss, but I am no Dr. or nutritionist. My research found that after losing the water weight at the beginning, you should lose only 1 to 2 pounds per week. Any more and you are loosing a greater percentage of lean muscle mass. Plus your metabolism can go into shut down mode. I know the medical field keeps stating 1 pound per week on the news.
Keep up the good work. I hope this info will help.

Wanted to check in. My first post here was on May 9 and my weight was 236. Now here we are 4 months later and my weight is down to 202. Thats a loss of 34 pounds. Am I proud.....You bet! My rides have gone from moderate 25milers to fast 60 mile rides and I feel great. 30lbs or so more to go. That should keep Walmart in the chicken breast buisness for a little while longer.

Wanted to check in. My first post here was on May 9 and my weight was 236. Now here we are 4 months later and my weight is down to 202. Thats a loss of 34 pounds. Am I proud.....You bet! My rides have gone from moderate 25milers to fast 60 mile rides and I feel great. 30lbs or so more to go. That should keep Walmart in the chicken breast buisness for a little while longer.
:eek: from 25 to 60 mile rides in 4 months?!?! Dayum, nice work!

Wanted to check in. My first post here was on May 9 and my weight was 236. Now here we are 4 months later and my weight is down to 202. Thats a loss of 34 pounds. Am I proud.....You bet! My rides have gone from moderate 25milers to fast 60 mile rides and I feel great. 30lbs or so more to go. That should keep Walmart in the chicken breast buisness for a little while longer.

Great job! Keep the weight loss sensible and steady. Don't worry if you hit a plateau, just change up your routine again so you can get over that bump. By mid winter, you'll be in fighting form!

Koffee

By mid winter, you'll be in fighting form!

Koffee

You know....I feel great...I am riding well and climbing fast. I just cannot wait till I can climb without the heavy breathing. I can climb as fast as anyone around here but I find I breath harder and longer then the little guys. My time WILL come. Thanks for the support everyone

:beer:

Though I do suck at hills, I still am faster than when I first started out. I am in the process of dropping weight- I work out hard, eat right, and train smart. I hope to be at my fighting weight by mid winter also. And this time, when the weight comes off, it'll stay off, because I'm never going to slip back into the bad habits that got me derailed in the first place. The main reason why I want to drop my weight is for the climbing... I see myself getting faster, and I get frustrated with the hill climbing because I am so slow. But I do know that I will pick up speed over time. I can't wait! I definitely can relate to your enthusiasm.

Koffee

Gary, you're doing fine! Keep up the good work and have patience. Permanent lifestyle aren't made overnight and the results will not show up for months. Give yourself at least a year to get to your goal. All the pertinent tips have already been suggested, so I'll just share my own personal experience with this kind of struggle.

Personally I was in a very, very similar situation to you. On 1-jan-05, I had a routine physical and the doctor told me outright that he was buying life-insurance on me and retire when I die (no, I didn't consider suing him because my feelings were hurt). I had gained about 100lbs over my trim 145lbs when I was most fit racing bikes over 10-years ago. It was really kinda sad as I pulled out my photo scrapbook and saw all the fun I had back when I was in shape; road-trips for bike-races, camping-trips, vacations, beach-volleyball, surfing, squash, rock-climbing, skydiving, partying and dancing all night, streaking through the library at school, joy-riding golf-carts in the middle of the night, etc... Now I just work at a desk all day and watch TV.. :(

So... I pulled all my bikes from the rafters and vowed I was going to get back into racing! I've since lost 70 of those 100lbs and have about 30 to go before the season opener in Feb. Here's the secret... cause and effect.... focus on getting fit and fast and the weight-loss will be an automatic side-effect. I measure fitness with the following metrics regularly:

- resting heart-rate
- LT-lactate threshold
- VO2 max
- recovery rate (to 50% from max-HR)
- lean muscle mass
- body-fat %
- blood-pressure

I plan and do my workouts based upon what's going to be most beneficial to improving those measurements. This workout plan is scheduled weekly, and each week has a goal based upon what the previous and next weeks' goals are, as well as the monthly and yearly goal. The weight-loss I couldn't care less about, it's gonna be automatic if I take care of all those other factors.

There's a duality and paradox of sorts here. You just have to pick what side of the table you're on. It's a lot easier to burn off a tonne of calories, than to cut back that same amount by eating less...

There's a duality and paradox of sorts here. You just have to pick what side of the table you're on. It's a lot easier to burn off a tonne of calories, than to cut back that same amount by eating less...

For the most part I don't miss the foods that I no longer eat. Occaisionaly I have a jones for fried chicken dinner and maybe I will have one when I have met my goal. But I now prefer water over soda, I prefer a chicken breast over a hamburger and I prefer oatmeal to a 3 egg omelete. Calorie reduction has been the easy part for me. Getting on the bike day in and day out has been the toughest part. I love riding but sometimes it does get a bit boring and I have to really force myself to look at why I am doing what I am doing.

For the most part I don't miss the foods that I no longer eat. Occaisionaly I have a jones for fried chicken dinner and maybe I will have one when I have met my goal. But I now prefer water over soda, I prefer a chicken breast over a hamburger and I prefer oatmeal to a 3 egg omelete. Calorie reduction has been the easy part for me. Getting on the bike day in and day out has been the toughest part. I love riding but sometimes it does get a bit boring and I have to really force myself to look at why I am doing what I am doing.

I sometimes have to force myself to make the effort to get out on the bike too, but I almost never regret the decision to get out there, and nearly always feel better for putting in the effort. However, I have fairly compulsive personality, and don't mind doing the same thing over and over.

Others I've spoken to get past the boredom factor by cross-training - besides the bike, they'll do weight-lifting, running, cross-country skiing, swimming, etc. I'm currently starting to take up running and weight-lifting (thanks to my new girlfriend), with a goal of doing a few tri's next year. The bike is still my main focus, but having other exercise outlets will make you more well-rounded as an athlete, and may help to keep your motivation up.

Getting on the bike day in and day out has been the toughest part. I love riding but sometimes it does get a bit boring and I have to really force myself to look at why I am doing what I am doing.

Oh i can relate to this one.
I got a bike to occupy my time and curb weight gain from my decision to quit smoking.

Then i got addicted to it, i loved going for rides. The freedom it gave me was astonishing. Not that i was imprisoned before, but just the fact I could hop on my bike after work, and head in any direction for 20 miles. It opened up a large radius around my house that i could explore on my rides.

Eventually I got to the part where there was not much left for me to explore, the rides became routine, and the ability to skip a nights ride became easier and easier.

Im a destination exerciser. If i hop on my bike to do a 40 mile ride, my brain says "thats exercise" and i can come up with all kinds of excuses to justify my skipping it. But, if I need to get a quart of milk, i can hop on my bike and go to a store thats 20 miles away my brain doesnt equate it to exercise. As long as I have a destination, or a reason other than 'exercise' to go for that ride, i find I have a lot higher success in getting out the door.

I then found the ultimate destination to convince myself to ride. I now bike to work 5 days a week, 25k eash way. I now have a destination, i HAVE to actually get to work so cant put it off. And it gave me a perfect excuse to go buy a thousands of dollars worth of new gear :)

Not everyone can bike to work, so that may not work for you.
But try making your rides become destination rides, Find a coffee shop, or a bread shop, 20-30 miles away you like and use it as a 'reason' to go ride. Buy one loaf only each time so you need to go every 2 days, etc.

Other option is to find someone to ride with.

"Hi everyone, This loosing weight thing sure is getting frustrating. I have been working really hard for about 3 weeks now to lose weight. I am 39yo 5'8" and 236LBS. For almost the past month I have lived a sensible diet. No white anything (breads, mayonaise,pasta's...etc..) Everything has been replaced with wheat and even that has been at a minimum. I have some whole grain cerial for breakfast, piece of fruit for a snack, chicken breast for lunch, fruit for a snack and either a lean cut of steak or chicken (skinless) for dinner. I have drank nothing but water for a month now and LOTS of it. I have ridden religously a minimum of 25 miles, 4 times a week. So far my total weight loss has been 4 lbs for the 3 weeks. My clothes do fit better..not a huge differance but better and I do feel better.
Am I missing something here? May there be another issue?

I love this forum and it has givin me lots of drive to continue. Thanks all."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't fret. I once weighed 229 pounds (two years ago) and dropped down to 179 pounds in 4-5 months time. After the first month I didn't see much of any weight "loss" per say, but I did notice my clothes were getting looser by the day and that I looked better. This is mainly due to muscle replacing fat (muscle weighes more than fat by the way). The most dramatic weight loss difference came in the 2nd and 3rd months where I averaged about 10-13 pounds a month on basically the same plan you are on. However, I did cram down A LOT of supplements during that time frame so maybe that helped me. I was biking about the same distances as I am now.

"Wanted to check in. My first post here was on May 9 and my weight was 236. Now here we are 4 months later and my weight is down to 202. Thats a loss of 34 pounds. Am I proud.....You bet! My rides have gone from moderate 25milers to fast 60 mile rides and I feel great. 30lbs or so more to go. That should keep Walmart in the chicken breast buisness for a little while longer."

Awesome.... I didn't read the whole thread before commenting. Great job and keep chugging. Just don't get discouraged when this start to really slow down. That's when you have to really push that much harder!

Again, congrats! :)

Just don't overtrain...

Occasionally it does heaps and wonders to take a few days off from the bike...

When you get back on, you feel, stronger, faster and more motivated than ever before.

When I start getting de-motivated, I take a few days off from the bike and I crank out my some of my Tour De France DVDs and by the time I'm done "resting" I'm jones-ing to get back on my bike (It also helps alot that I just bought a new Trek Pilot 2.1 to replace my 40 pound Gary Fisher hybrid). I just haven't had a chance to ride the new bike yet on my normal paths and I am more than sure I will break my 10 mile sprint PR, 20 mile PR and 30 mile PR without a doubt. I know this happened once I went to the hybrid from a true mountain bike I dropped 1-2 minutes (PR) on the hybrid. Now I'll be on a real road bike and cannot wait. Now if I could just get my LBS to assemble the bike, I'd be estatic! :rolleyes: I ended up getting it as a birthday present from my Mom when I was out in Carmel, California last week and had to disassemble it to get it on the plane for the ride home. I think the LBS is trying to punish me for not purchasing the bike at their shop.. :p

My point is, sometimes upgrading bikes can do wonders for you too. Especially when you plateau...

Keep chugging and keep us posted on your progress!

Hi everyone, This loosing weight thing sure is getting frustrating. I have been working really hard for about 3 weeks now to lose weight. I am 39yo 5'8" and 236LBS. .

Wow....I was looking over my old posts and came across this. Here is a quick update and yes, If I can do it....ANYONE can. I wrote that post on 5-09-05. Now 8 months later I am at 179lbs. That's 60 pounds lost in under 8 months and I had already lost about 20lbs before I wrote the post for a total of 80lbs gone. I never starved myself or did any hokie diet's. Just good sensible meals and no fried foods or sodas. Now I find I can eat more of what I like and the weight does not increase like it used to. If I can help support anyone else who is going through what I went through.....please feel free to drop me a email. We need to stick together to fight the fat!!

Great thread Gary! I have about 10-15 lbs to rid myself of too. We'll see how it goes.

Wow....I was looking over my old posts and came across this. Here is a quick update and yes, If I can do it....ANYONE can. I wrote that post on 5-09-05. Now 8 months later I am at 179lbs. That's 60 pounds lost in under 8 months and I had already lost about 20lbs before I wrote the post for a total of 80lbs gone. I never starved myself or did any hokie diet's. Just good sensible meals and no fried foods or sodas. Now I find I can eat more of what I like and the weight does not increase like it used to. If I can help support anyone else who is going through what I went through.....please feel free to drop me a email. We need to stick together to fight the fat!!



GREAT job, man. very inspirational...

Quick update. I figured maybe some people who are just starting the weight loss game may get some inspiration and info from the thread..........I have held steady at 176lbs for the past 7months. I am riding about 125 miles a week and eating pretty much whatever I want....within reason. Life is good. We just got back from a cruise and it sure felt great to be able to walk around minus shirt and not feel embarassed by my looks.

Wow you're 176! That's a pretty cool accomplishment.
Im 240 and I hope to be around +-190 in 12-14 months.

hey I remember you heh. I was sayin how your city was more collier then mine LoL.

Wow you're 176! That's a pretty cool accomplishment.
Im 240 and I hope to be around +-190 in 12-14 months..



Good luck with the loss. It is more than do-able. Hell, I even had fun doing it.


hey I remember you heh. I was sayin how your city was more collier then mine LoL.

I remember. How are things in Colleyvegas? I will be in Tyler one of these weekends coming up. Do you know any good roads around there to ride?

Hey good job! Where's that handclapping smiley? Ah well.. :beer: :) :D

Nope never been to Tyler. I hear they have some nice area lakes and big homes though. Dallas would be a cool place to chill if you get bored in Tyler:D. Don't go to longview lol.

Hey good job! Where's that handclapping smiley? Ah well.. :beer: :) :D
Beer always works :) Thanks