Touring - Can I buy a Taser Gun

in shops in the US ?

Been preparing for my 3 month tour of Western US, but mainy of the posts here have me somewhat freaked out. Crazy drivers stalking you, wild packs of HUGE dogs running after you, violent helmet advocates that will hate you for not wearing one and who knows what else I'll run into. Thought a TASER would be helpful, at least just to overcome my fear.

And it also seems like car/truck drivers don't have a clue how to "handle" bikes on the road. Quess I'll need to get that helmet and also a full body armor as well. Man, that'll be hot going through Nevada......

****, maybe I should just stay home here in safe little bike friendly Scandinavia ?

Or is touring the US that bad ?

:) :) :) :) :)

Yes you can get a taser at almost any local gun shop and for relatively cheap. But i just opt for a gun!

Big Lug, that reply will certainly not help scandiho feel more secure! That said, when going to North America, or anywhere in the world, you'll find deranged people who think that they own everything or that they are the sole repository of all wisdom... add to this a culture of violence and a certain level or arrogance and you are likely to encounter dangerous nutcases...

I met many of those in North america, South America, Europe and China... I bet you can't escape them... but I have serious doubt about the usufulness of any weapon against these guys... after all, you pretty much fall into their game if you seek violent means of 'protection'. I don't know about each states in the US, but in Canada these guns are illegal anyway.

In my opinion, it is much better to avoid confrontational situations!

And finally, there are way more friendly people in the US than anything else.

Sure you could buy a tazer, or a real gun-provided you are (or get) properly trained on its safety, and use. And provided you can get licensed to carry concealed, across state lines. I would think if you are planning to stop at national parks this may prove problematic (very strict weapon regulations).

For personal defense I would recommend sprays (mace/pepper). Allows further distance and more "shots" than a tazer. Is non-lethal. Works against animals (again non-lethal).

a) Use your brain-don't get into a bad situation.
b) Use your legs-walk away from a bad situation.
c) Use your mouth-don't make a bad situation worse (but call for help as needed).

-Also, I wouldn't be concerned with being "attacked" while touring. Perhaps a bit of a concern in some Metro areas you might visit for "touristy" sites-only because you may not be that familiar with "bad" parts of town.

It's the same all over the world-not just in the US.

Big Lug, that reply will certainly not help scandiho feel more secure! That said, when going to North America, or anywhere in the world, you'll find deranged people who think that they own everything or that they are the sole repository of all wisdom... add to this a culture of violence and a certain level or arrogance and you are likely to encounter dangerous nutcases...

I met many of those in North america, South America, Europe and China... I bet you can't escape them... but I have serious doubt about the usufulness of any weapon against these guys... after all, you pretty much fall into their game if you seek violent means of 'protection'. I don't know about each states in the US, but in Canada these guns are illegal anyway.

In my opinion, it is much better to avoid confrontational situations!

And finally, there are way more friendly people in the US than anything else.
Wasnt trying to make him feel more or less secure, i was simply just anwsering his question. And on another note there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a means of protection when riding on a bike that cost a small fortune. No matter where you go in the world how nice everyone is there will always be that one person that will want what you have and possible want to hurt you in the process. so regardless if you want to be in that situation or not it can be brought to you and you may have no choice but to fight and being out in the middle of no where with all your stuff on your person, and having that person know it they already have a advantage. I spend every day of my life armed and have never had to use it but i know in the back of my head that if put in a situation where me or some other innocent person may be harmed by some low life scum I know that i will be able to excersize one of the rights that my fore fathers fought for. Or you could just be in the middle of the dessert with nothing and sit on the side of the road till a truck passes by while watching someone drive off with everything you have?? And for the "Violent means of protection" What kind of non violent protection do you recommed someone use throw a nerf ball at them? I am sure there means of attack will have some type of violence.

J.W.

Check out Cheaper Than Dirt.com. It's a surplus outfit out of Texas, and they sell tasers and and mace type sprays at very reasonable prices.....I'm just a customer, not an employee.

There are 280+ million of us here in the US , Reading a handfull of posts about dogs and drivers (including mine)on a BBS doesn't mean the whole country is nuts.
I can't come up with five bicycle tourists in the US during the past 20 years who have met thier end by violent means( meaning personal attack) that I have heard of. As in Europe, here in the US you are hundreds more times likely to be done in by a drunk driver. I haven't seen a gun or tazer yet that can stop a car that suddenly comes upon you. being alert and using a rear view mirror when you ride is more effective.
As for dogs in my experience a yell and a squirt in the face from a waterbottle works just as good as anything else.

...I spend every day of my life armed...

I'm curious how one does that legally while touring(across state lines&such)? Seriously-(not trying to start a flame war)-but how would a regular citizen go about getting the proper permitts to carry concealed in different States? Is there a national permitt available (to non-peace officers). Makes perfect sense to me for an off duty peace officer to carry all the time (extra training&such).

-And remember, the original poster is a foreign tourist (I assume non-US citizen, to travel on a tourist Visa), probably not trained with handgun use etc.

Scandi,

Don't freak out! I think people like to post their horror stories, and I was a bit worried too, but people in the US, especially in small towns are overwhelmingly friendly and helpful.

I had 2 only slightly bad people encounters in 10 weeks of touring, and probably 500 wonderful ones.

Drivers - the worst ones are the folks with the rental RV's who don't know how big their vehicle is. Try not to ride the national parks on weekends and holidays (Memorial Day 5/28-30, July 4th 7/2-4, Labor Day 9/3-5). Helmet - yes. Mirror - yes. Body armor (I know you are kidding) - no. The truckers are usually friendly and courteous. Be friendly, wave, share the road.

Dogs... well, there are some bad ones for sure, I carried pepper spray, available in any camping/hunting shop, but I never used it. Got chased about 10 times, only 2 were really scary. Guess I was lucky?

Camel has it going on!

Whatever energy you put out, you will get back.

Have a great trip!
Anna

...Camel has it going on!...

:rolleyes: HA! Here's me with "it going on!" (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1143227&postcount=121) :eek:

I'm curious how one does that legally while touring(across state lines&such)? Seriously-(not trying to start a flame war)-but how would a regular citizen go about getting the proper permitts to carry concealed in different States? Is there a national permitt available (to non-peace officers). Makes perfect sense to me for an off duty peace officer to carry all the time (extra training&such).

-And remember, the original poster is a foreign tourist (I assume non-US citizen, to travel on a tourist Visa), probably not trained with handgun use etc.

Frequently states will, through reciprocity agreements, honour the terms and conditions of other states carry permits. That said, you need to know for sure! Research the carry laws in states you plan to visit. Know what the rules are before you visit. Logistically, a nightmare for a cross country tour.

I'm curious how one does that legally while touring(across state lines&such)? Seriously-(not trying to start a flame war)-but how would a regular citizen go about getting the proper permitts to carry concealed in different States? Is there a national permitt available (to non-peace officers). Makes perfect sense to me for an off duty peace officer to carry all the time (extra training&such).

-And remember, the original poster is a foreign tourist (I assume non-US citizen, to travel on a tourist Visa), probably not trained with handgun use etc.
You have to know each states laws. I livei n florida with a concealed weapons permit i can carry in i believe 30 or so of hte states florida is onoe of the flag ship states and most other states either honor our laws or allow a reciprocity relationship. but there are a 2 states that dont allow oyu to carry at all and some states that dont even require you to have a permit to carry. There is no national permit. If you are going into a state that doesnt all conceal carry you have to lock it up and put it in the trunk if in a car and there is a way to legally carry it while touring jsut not sure of the details. but in order to get all states posible you would have to get permits from the states that dont honor you current permit.Any info you could ever want to know about this cna be found at www.packing.org

J.W.

Some states consider the original Tasers to be firearms, specifically handguns, because pistol primers were used to propel the darts. The newer Tasers, which use a different propulsion system for the darts, may or may not be prohibited, depending on the law of each state. It the device does not propel darts, then it is not a Taser, but something generically called a stun gun, which requires that the device be held in contact with the target in order to deliver the electric charge. IMHO, stun guns are useless against hardened criminals, and a Taser is only a wise choice when combined with a whole bag of tricks to include training in unarmed combatives and alternative weapons. I work for an agency which issues the newer type of Tasers, and results have been mixed. Generally speaking, a Taser is an alternative to striking someone with an impact weapon, NOT an alternative to deadly force. For information and links to state laws on weapons and self-defense, packing.org is a very informative site. An increasing number of states have handgun permit/license reciprocity with other states, and some states recognize certain other states or even all other states. The closest thing to a national handgun permit is HR 218, which allows active police officers and many honorably retired officers to carry handguns in all states. This fairly new law was specifically worded to not establish a national police force, nor give arrest powers to out-of-state officers, but to allow carry of a handgun to use for defense of self and others, depending on the laws of each state. Example: I am a Texas peace officer, but if carrying in New York state, I must abide by the self-defense laws of NY state, and can only arrest and detain based on the laws of citizen's arrest in NY state. Sorry to be so long-winded, but if ya open the can, might as well dump out all the worms. ;)

...Sorry to be so long-winded, but if ya open the can, might as well dump out all the worms. ;)

No apologie required-that's exactly the type of info I was interested in. Permit reciprocity makes sense. As far as National Parks go, I'd probably have to look at that site. Carrying a concealed handgun on tour still seems a goodly bit of trouble (to me-a non peace officer, or military).

ScandiHo, Considering the replies here, I'd be affraid to encounter someone carrying a gun who had a bad day and step on his/her foot by mistake... you never know how people can react! Especially considering the fairly high levels of mental distress found in all developped countries. Seriously, just thinking that people around me could be carrying guns just freaks me out!

Wasnt trying to make him feel more or less secure, i was simply just anwsering his question. And on another note there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a means of protection when riding on a bike that cost a small fortune. No matter where you go in the world how nice everyone is there will always be that one person that will want what you have and possible want to hurt you in the process. so regardless if you want to be in that situation or not it can be brought to you and you may have no choice but to fight and being out in the middle of no where with all your stuff on your person, and having that person know it they already have a advantage. I spend every day of my life armed and have never had to use it but i know in the back of my head that if put in a situation where me or some other innocent person may be harmed by some low life scum I know that i will be able to excersize one of the rights that my fore fathers fought for. Or you could just be in the middle of the dessert with nothing and sit on the side of the road till a truck passes by while watching someone drive off with everything you have?? And for the "Violent means of protection" What kind of non violent protection do you recommed someone use throw a nerf ball at them? I am sure there means of attack will have some type of violence. J.W.


I guess it's all a matter of diverging opinion here... I prefer to invest in insurance and let a thief get away with my stuff then engaging in any kind of fight and especially a gun fight (I'd never kill someone for anything material and hardly imagine myself killing someone to protect a human life). So yes, I'd sit in the middle of the desert waiting for a truck. As for non-violent means of protection you have cell phones that you can use to call for help. But even then, I prefer not to succumb to fear, even if for some it could be construed as being negligent.

I know this topic is hotly debated in the US but viewed from Canada, where in many cities even police officers stay away from taser guns in fear of causing heart dammage to people, it is frightening. I bet people from Europe would feel similar... but then, I might be wrong on this.

Quess I'll see if I can find some pepperspray. I'll be going through bear country as well, so best option.
The dog issue did freak me a little after reading a post on the roadbiekforum where someone did a 300km brevet and had 2-3 huge white dogs run after her while it was dark as well.
Quess my greatest worry is traffic and especially, as several members have pointed out, the big RV's on small roads.
Can't really see having a mirror on my bike. Does that really work?

And where would you keep the pepperspray? In the handlebar bag? Wonder if I would have time to get it out in case of a mutt attack?

ScandiHo, Considering the replies here, I'd be affraid to encounter someone carrying a gun who had a bad day and step on his/her foot by mistake... you never know how people can react! Especially considering the fairly high levels of mental distress found in all developped countries. Seriously, just thinking that people around me could be carrying guns just freaks me out!
O your absolutly right everyone has there own opinions and are entitled to them! I just have problem letting someone take something that i have worked so hard for! You would be amazed the amount of people that carry guns! I would have no problem ending someones life to protect anothers.As far as for a personal possession i wouldnt end someones life over it!

Can't really see having a mirror on my bike. Does that really work?

Works for me. Still look back if performing a latteral move though (into traffic). If you wear a helmet, there are several types that can attach to one. If you opt not to wear a helmet, there are a couple kinds that can attach to either ball caps, or to glasses (prescription, or non).



Quess I'll see if I can find some pepperspray...

...And where would you keep the pepperspray? In the handlebar bag? Wonder if I would have time to get it out in case of a mutt attack?

That's where I keep mine while on tour (in an outside handlebar bag pocket). While commuting (or off bike) I try to keep it handy, either with my cell phone (on a pack strap pocket), or in a shirt or pants pocket.

I've had occassion to use it on a ferrile dog while on tour (in Europe). If it was in my HB bag, I wouldn't have had time to get it-stopped it in its tracks. I've also had occasion to use it on a Black Bear.

[QUOTE=ScandiHo]

****, maybe I should just stay home here in safe little bike friendly Scandinavia ?

Or is touring the US that bad ?

QUOTE]

It looks like US forum members have answered your question. I just prefer to bike somewhere where almost no one has a handgun.

Talking about bear spray... I remember reading an article about someone in Canada who brought a can of bear spray in a restaurant and got arrested for carrying a weapon (the idea was that bear spray could be used as an accepted self protectio devce in bear country but that it was not acceptable in a restaurant). I tried to find a reference to it online but failed. Anyone remember such a case?

Finally, I've also read (can't remember where) that a water pistol full of lemon juice works fine on dogs... you aim for the eyes and mouth. Not sure this would work on a bear though... but then I don't worry about bears and dogs too much (i live in the East and all we have are relatively docile black bears).

And where would you keep the pepperspray? In the handlebar bag? Wonder if I would have time to get it out in case of a mutt attack?

My girlfriend uses velcro to attach the pepper spray to the handlebar stem.

[QUOTE=ScandiHo]

****, maybe I should just stay home here in safe little bike friendly Scandinavia ?

Or is touring the US that bad ?

QUOTE]

It looks like US forum members have answered your question. I just prefer to bike somewhere where almost no one has a handgun.

where you from? Canada has more gun per captia then the us... if your nto from canada well hmm...

but that is rifles and shotguns i believe that make there numbers so high and there is no ability to conceal carry Canada either.

Can't really see having a mirror on my bike. Does that really work?

And where would you keep the pepperspray? In the handlebar bag? Wonder if I would have time to get it out in case of a mutt attack?

I have a helmet mirror, and it works well for me. Some swear by the ones that attach to eyeglasses or sunglasses, I don't see why a decent one wouldn't work well. I don't use it instead of looking back, but it gives you more time to check things out and spot trouble.

My trunk bag has a carry handle on the front of it, so it's like right behind my seat. My pepper spray has a belt clip, which works fine on the trunk bag handle. It's an easy reach to get to it. I pulled it this past weekend when a dog seemed intent on going after my daughter, but he was just a runner so I didn't use it. Was the first time I had pulled it in a "real world" situation, and it was fast and easy. Wasn't hard to get it back in place either.

where you from? Canada has more gun per captia then the us... if your nto from canada well hmm...

When I read that, I was stunned and made a little research online to verify this... turns out most of what I found were comments on Moore's movie 'Bowling for Columbine' which were more polemical than based on any science. I even place a few querries in a social sciences peer reviewed articles database and found no country based stats (I'm sure with time I could find something there though). The closest thing to stats I found was this: http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm ...

It is not perfect and it does come from a political lobby but at least they show some numbers. According to their stats, your assertion is not founded... but again, better stats could probably says the opposite.

If their stats are close to reality, I believe they offer a very good base for an good argument on gun control. From those stats, it's almost too obvious to the social science nerd that I am that there is a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun homicide and crime. It seems so clear that I would question those stats... I don't believe any nation would not consider gun control in the face of these stats... it's seems too absurd to be true.. Hence, if anyone know of any better source of stats (e.g. respectable governmental agency) I'd be glad to have a look at it.

Can't really see having a mirror on my bike. Does that really work?



Yes. I find a mirror to be an indispensible accessory when touring. I even carry a replacement. When I hear and feel the rumbling of a big truck approaching from behind, I glance in the mirror. 90% or 95% of the time, that quick (< 1 second) look makes it clear that the driver has spotted me and is taking action to make space, for example: the driver is signalling a lane change, drifting over to the left, or whatever. I can then ignore the truck.

The mirror is great because it makes it so much easier to be aware of one's environment.

ScandiHo, you mentioned in your post that you do not wear a helmet. You might want to google for terms such as "bicycle accidents," "traumatic head injury" and "brain damage" for some sobering reminders of why many people feel strongly about the topic. I would not be surprised if one or more people who responded to your post owe their lives to a helmet.

Some find it troubling for a government to allow broad based gun ownership. Their faith appears to be primarily grounded in the goodness of the people who operate the government.

Others find it vastly more troubling for the government and its representatives to be the only legal owners of guns.

Any student of history knows very well that in the preceding 100 years governments have murdered millions of its own citizens. How many millions of individuals were murdered by the Chinese, Russian, and Cambodian governments in the twentieth century?

Atrocities like these occur when the average person cannot defend themselves from people that control the government. Every person from the leader of a country and on down must be checked from allowing their power to go astray.

Our founding fathers added the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution because they were realists. They understood the heart of man and they knew that governments can and will abuse their power over time. Not withstanding the problems inherent in broad based gun ownership, the problems are far greater if this right is forfeited.

While their are many checks and balances placed on those of positions of power, gun ownership is the last check. It must remain. Those who naively ignore history may inadvertently allow themselves or their children to experience the same horrors.

But, history does not need to be repeated over and over again. Thoughtful analysis with the will to act can still yield good results.

where you from? Canada has more gun per captia then the us... if your nto from canada well hmm...

Where do you get your info from? The NRA?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/C/Cr/Crime_in_Canada.htm

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/F-11.6/

You know, after reading the responses, I'm going to remove myself from this thread. The gun toaters will always have a reason to defend themselves from an imaginary enemy. The people like myself will always believe you don't have to force ideology on people at the point of a gun.

This is a bike forum. We are exchanging ideas on biking. Nothing more. What we need accord not discord.
Peace and love.

You know, after reading the responses, I'm going to remove myself from this thread. The gun toaters will always have a reason to defend themselves from an imaginary enemy. The people like myself will always believe you don't have to force ideology on people at the point of a gun.

This is a bike forum. We are exchanging ideas on biking. Nothing more. What we need accord not discord.
Peace and love.


I guess I am to blame for this situation and I'd like to apologise to everyone. To be honest, I am still a bit horified by what I've read on this thread... and can't imagine myself cycling in a place where people carry guns and even less cycling in the company of gun-carrying cyclists. I like to keep an open mind even when I am truly shocked... hence all the questions I asked.

I also understand that insecure people like to carry weapons and that these can help them overcome whatever fear they hold. After all, most of us learned to fear strangers at a young age and tabloids are replete of horror stories...

As for myself, I have been attacked by a group of teens armed with knives on one of my very first bike tour, I was only 12 then and so were the two friends who were with me. We camped near a river afer a nice afternoon bike ride and were surrounded by the older kids at night. I guess we 'stole' their drinking spot. We had to strip down, put our clothes in the wet ashes where our fire was, tied to a tree and insulted... our tent was slashed... but we were able to talk our way through this and the other kids finally left. This ended prematuraly our little adventure but in retrospect, I am glad no one had a gun of a taser... knives are already frightning enough. It is pretty much the only instance were I felt I was trully being attacked... and these kids were just a bunch of 'Iwannabetough' low life. I hope they grew up to be something better... I certainly feel I grew up that day and I am glad it didn't stop me from biking and camping. Had I used a gun or pepperspray, I am sure this would have turned into a big mess... and not only because I was just a kid then.

That said, let's talk about bikes and touring! :)

I guess I am to blame for this situation and I'd like to apologise to everyone. To be honest, I am still a bit horified by what I've read on this thread... and can't imagine myself cycling in a place where people carry guns and even less cycling in the company of gun-carrying cyclists. I like to keep an open mind even when I am truly shocked... hence all the questions I asked.

I also understand that insecure people like to carry weapons and that these can help them overcome whatever fear they hold. After all, most of us learned to fear strangers at a young age and tabloids are replete of horror stories...

As for myself, ...

That said, let's talk about bikes and touring! :)



I agree, let's talk about bikes and touring!

Just for the record, I don't own a gun and never have.

Scandi,

The U.S. has a lot to offer. You will enjoy the U.S tour.

Americans are good people.
Just don't mention guns, Okay?
We need a special section for guns and cycling, there seems to be a lot of interest in the subject

A well armed society is a polite society.

Proper gun ownership means, statistically, you will never use it in a stressful situation. (But you COULD if you had to.)

NEVER defend material possesions with a gun. give a thief what he wants.

ALWAYS defend yourself, family, and fellow man from assailants with deadly intent (and they ARE out there)

S&W Scandium Ultralight, .38 Special. Peace of mind.

A well armed society is a polite society.

Proper gun ownership means, statistically, you will never use it in a stressful situation. (But you COULD if you had to.)

NEVER defend material possesions with a gun. give a thief what he wants.

ALWAYS defend yourself, family, and fellow man from assailants with deadly intent (and they ARE out there)

S&W Scandium Ultralight, .38 Special. Peace of mind.

Noticed your relatively new to the forums redsoxfan. Welcome!

Not to be a grouch, but your post above (?from a month old thread), would be more suited to the "politics&religeon" area of the boards. In that area folks have to log in & follow specific guidelines & such. Posts about guns can get rather heated replies, as people have very strong views about them.

Slightly off-topic, but I hope you roll through Nebraska. Read Stephen Crane's short story The Blue Hotel to understand my meaning. Sometimes the fear is worse than that which you fear. Good luck! :)

For the most part people are really nice. I've never had any problem on all my trips, It's how you act and behave as well. If it really freaks you out then I would stay home.To conseal a handgun your just inviting trouble. and with a stun gun your going to get hurt. maybe go with the pepper spray ....for the mad dogs.

Christ Almighty, you don't need to be armed to tour the U.S.!! People here are like people anywhere in the world - decent and friendly. I've toured in France, Italy and the U.S. The fact that cars brings out aggression in people is unfortunate, but a gun or tazer ain't gonna stop a 5-ton vehicle and tazering the bastard who honked at you is just psychotic. end of rant. Oh, and not a bad idea to have dog spray (for the dogs) - they really can be kinda scary.

Well my father-in-law who has ridden for many years and millions of miles swears that the best thing to carry for dogs is a small can of wasp spray. A shot of this will get then running the other way.

Well my father-in-law who has ridden for many years and millions of miles swears that the best thing to carry for dogs is a small can of wasp spray. A shot of this will get then running the other way.

--And perhaps blind the animal.

I use mace/pepper spray as it might actually teach the animal a lesson not to chase bikes. If it happens to run off and get killed by a car, that would be unfortunate. In my experience, mace/pepper spray simply makes the dog stop (allmost instantly), and kind of "stunns" them-and they walk away wiping there face/blinking/rubbing in grass etc.

Mace/pepper can also be used as a self defense tool against people. Insect spray can lead to jail time for the user-if used against a person.