Commuting - Left turn in left dual lane

Do you guys take this as a safe manoeuvre? I've been doing it for years without the slightest problem, but I came to think about it and wonder what you think about it. I usually shift to the left hand side of the left lane when cars are stopped way back behind at a red light, which I check both in my helmet mirror and overshoulder glance. They catch up soon though, and no one has ever complained or horned when passing, and give plenty of room to my right.
Question 1: Whaddaya think of the long stretch on the left?
Question 2: How about the running the red light with cars joining from the right hand side? Again, I've never had the slightest problem. Very few cars really come from the right at that point, and they stick to their right lane in any case, because they cannot go to the left one right away (there is a solid line forbidding it) until 20 yards after the T-junction.

You're positioning yourself in the wrong part of the lane. You should be about where I repositioned you in the new drawing.
By moving to the left side of the lane, cars can pull past you as you're turning and block you so you're stuck on the left side of the road after the turn.
By positioning yourself in the center or just right of center, cars can't pull past you until you've made the turn and you will be on the right side of the road.
Don't run the red light. Not sure about the law in Spain, but in the US bicycles are vehicles and cyclists are supposed to follow the same rules of the road as drivers of cars.

I agree with RonH. If cars are passing you on the right as you go through the turn, you may end up trapped in the very left side of the lane after you go through the intersection. This has happened to me and it's a pretty uncomfortable spot to be in.

Stay to the center of the lane. As you turn, you can drift right a little to allow cars who are turning to pass you on the left (but don't do this until you're in the intersection -- you don't want cars going straight to pass you on the elft).

I do something like that. The differences are I won't necessarily wait for a big gap in traffic to move over, I look over my shoulder, signal a lane change and move when the next car starts slowing until I'm in the turn lane. Be prepared in distance and how long it will take to move over, but I can't remember ever having to wait more than three cars for each move. When I reach the turn lane I take the center of the lane as I approach the intersection and either wait my turn in line, or stop at the white line rather than run the red. :)

I have a couple of intersections where I need to make a left turn. Personally for me it depends on traffic. I prefer to stay to the right rear corner of the car in front of me and follow it around the turn. If I'm the first person in line, I still prefer to be to the right side of the turn lane.

I have been known, if traffic is really heavy, to actually turn right, cut across the street, and go straight through the green light.

In my area, the cars turning left don't always stay in their lane. It can get a little dangerous and creepy. Also, in my area, cars only honk once. Bad things happen after that!

The most important thing is to be predictable. As long as everyone knows what to expect (bicyclist and driver) from each other, you should be ok. My .02.

It looks like a setup for a collision. I don't think drivers would expect to see you there. Furthermore, if cross traffic is vey fast and heavy, you may find yourself trapped in the left side of the lane, looking for an opening in which to merge right.

If the lane is wide enough to share, ride the right side of the lane. If it is too narrow to share, take the lane. Under no circumstances run a red light.

Paul

...I prefer to stay to the right rear corner of the car in front of me and follow it around the turn...

Provided that your view is not obscured, and that the car in front of you is not blocking your being seen by oncoming traffic. Both are equally important.



...If I'm the first person in line, I still prefer to be to the right side of the turn lane...

Not the best idea (IMO). The following driver may get "confused" as to what your intentions are, and may attempt a straight thru pass on your left--even though in the arrowed left lane. If you are taking the lane, they will have to make a concerted effort to go around you (as opposed to just stepping on the gas).



...The most important thing is to be predictable. As long as everyone knows what to expect (bicyclist and driver) from each other, you should be ok. My .02.

Precisely!

If I am getting into the left lane in preparation for a left turn, I'll go over to the left side. Cars give me room by riding on the center line, just as they do when I'm in the right lane on the right side. As I approach and enter the turn, however, I take the lane if possible because getting passed in a turn in the middle of an intersection just doesn't seem very safe. I usually signal right as soon as I'm exiting the intersection so the car behind knows I'm moving over to the right lane as soon as I have a chance. If I don't have a chance, I'll stay in the lane until I do. So far around here (I mostly ride on small to medium size roads, not major roads) I haven't had a problem keeping the lane as long as necessary.

I wouldn't run the red light. Around me cars making a turn frequently turn into whatever lane they feel like, so I wouldn't trust them to turn right and stay in the right lane. If it's a wide left shoulder and you're riding on the shoulder instead of in the actual traffic lane, and there's a lot of traffic, eeehhhh maybe... but unless you really have some burning desire to get there 30 seconds early I would just wait for the light.

Have you tried the corner to corner turn. That is the one I use the most at scary intersections.

[...]You should be about where I repositioned you in the new drawing.[...]in the US bicycles are vehicles and cyclists are supposed to follow the same rules of the road as drivers of cars.
Thank you all guys for your insights and advices. RonH thanks for your drawing editing. First off, in Spain too, there is NO difference between motorists and cyclists as regards the abiding by traffic rules and regulations. This particular running the red light is very safe, unless there is a cop waving at me---and not as a greeting. However, PaulH I'll stop doing it, dismount and use the zebra crosswalk.
I usually take the hole lane or street when there is not enough room for a car to pass, but in this particular case, I stick to the left because:

there is room to the right for cars to overtake me.
it's very difficult to slot in to turn left from the far right in the hurry mess of cars streaming along past me.
after the left turn, I take a bike lane that is to the left of the street, namely, in the middle of two one-way streets.

Anyway, my other concern was your opinion about that 300-yard (actually nearly 400) stretch that I ride on the left, which PaulH considers to be a collision setup. I think he is right. I'll either change my route, or stick to the right and use a crosswalk further after the cross.

Thanks to all.

P.S. Just read Helmet Head's (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=106637 ) experience with this particular problem, and it's quite enlightening: [...] But what really clinched it for me was learning from Forester's [Effective Cycling] book how to negotiate my challenging left turn. He has several pages on the concept of negotiating for the right-of-way, which involves asking motorists to slow down for you and letting you in, and cross the roadway, one lane at a time. Prior to reading the book I didn't realize that it would never occur to me to try to cross multiple lanes without first making sure I had a clear gap all the way across.[...]