Ecotopia!

[lilHinault]

Anyone read this book? It's supposed to be about a society in the future, where bikes are the transportation, etc. I've also heard it's horrible, a real potboiler. But a friend I highly respect has told me I ought to read it. So, I'm probably going to see if the library has it, since the latest edition is 1990. Anyone who's read it, any interesting thoughts on it?

[kf5nd]

I read it... in 1977-78. I recommend it. It won't be waste of your time, but it's not great literature.

[jim-bob]

I haven't read it, but it's a great Steroid Maximus album.

[JohnBrooking]

Most fiction which also attempts to promote specific ideas is not great literature. The ideas it presents may be thought-provoking and worthwhile, but it's rare to find an individual who has specific ideas to to get across and can also do good plot, characterization, description, and so on. They tend to be different types of people, I think. IMHO, Barbara Kingsolver does pretty well.

I'm not a writer, but I am somewhat creative, mostly in music. I think in creative endeavors in general, if you get too specific too soon about your intentions, it will place too many limits on you when you attempt to actually put it down on paper/canvas/whatever. You need to start only with generalities, and just see where it takes you. People with causes have a hard time doing this.

But I digress. To answer your question, I have not read the book. :)

[Treespeed]

Fairly decent book, but in my opinion quite racist (african americans in his book still live in segregated communities that don't embrace the ecological revolution), and a bit misogynistic as he devotes whole bits of his book to the main character's conquests and the details of such events. I prefer my eco-lit porn free and my porn to be eco-lit free for that matter.

Though his bits regarding sustainable forestry, transportation, and working for the resources you use were great. Though nothing so socialistic would ever get off the ground in this country.

-Marcus.

[lilHinault]

I think the future may be a lot less socialistic and a lot more tribal than futurists think it will be....

Yeah, I heard about the porn, this is why I'll just borrow it from the library if I can, does not sound like a "keeper".

[scarry]

Anyone read this book? It's supposed to be about a society in the future, where bikes are the transportation, etc. I've also heard it's horrible, a real potboiler. But a friend I highly respect has told me I ought to read it. So, I'm probably going to see if the library has it, since the latest edition is 1990. Anyone who's read it, any interesting thoughts on it?

Good god, it must have been 20 years ago. Read it. There is a sequal as well.

[Roody]

Interesting at the time but mostly outdated now.

[eubi]

I'll get my ideas of the future from Star Trek and the Jetsons.

[lilHinault]

Eh, I just got it from the library, so I can read it without having wasted money on the thing. That, and they had a 2-DVD set of Aqua Teen Hunger Force, the library is cool!

[SecretSatellite]

its a great book, though not well written and a bit contrived. the ideas put forth are totally doable. i dont know where you got socialist from, there not socialisy at all. maybe mildly anarchist, lots of mutual aid style stuff. and the porn, wtf. that wasn't porn. that was the author at least trying to answer questions of sexuality in a more free society. i dont agree with the authors ideas about how race would play out but at least he took on that issue. also, whats wrong with hippy porn?

[lilHinault]

I've read it now, the book's not nearly as bad as the reviews left me to believe, and yeah, only in the USA (remember we're still a Puritan country) could it be considered to contain pron. In fact I saw it as just a factual account of how things were going with him, in his life there.

*sigh* I think the race thing was understated if anything, "integration" has been decreasing since the 70s. And most of this decrease has been voluntary, even agitated for.

The plastic houses extruded a room at a time are laughable, no one would go for that if they could, and I think there would be a movement more towards the classical European attitude, that you build your house out of stone, to last, if you can, and then if you settle for building it out of wood, likewise you built it sturdy and to last.

I'd rather see that book much thicker, with many more details, but I'd say it's a must-read, now I have to see if I can find the sequal.

[SecretSatellite]

when this was originally written houses like that were really being talked about in lefty green circles. its cool, though, that the biodegradable plastic mentioned in the book(non-existant at that time) is around today. i only know that casue a friend works at whole foods and thats what they use. its made from corn starch. anyway, the way of life put forward was interesting but also doable. maybe someday soon cascadia will cecede

[lilHinault]

I know they make packing material ("peanuts") out of starch, it works pretty well, and I think that could be extended to other things

However, reading The Long Emergency and reading it again, plus a regular reader of the other things like peakoil.com etc., a lot of this technology is not going to be available, say it over and over, we're not going to be on the "petroleum free ride" we've been on. Energy may well mean draft animals and human power with petroleum going for extra things like making bikes and bike tires, making things like simple radios, etc., and even biodegradeable plastics may well be a luxury. Don't think 1960, think 1860. Or 1760 for that matter.

[Feldman]

It's a mixed book--lots of real dopey 70's sex, drugs, r&r angles, but ideas about energy use, economics and social organization that would probably improve the world substantially. The book's 25th anniversary came and went with no notice. It would be a good thing if there's a little noise made on it's 50th.

[Treespeed]

its a great book, though not well written and a bit contrived. the ideas put forth are totally doable. i dont know where you got socialist from, there not socialisy at all. maybe mildly anarchist, lots of mutual aid style stuff. and the porn, wtf. that wasn't porn. that was the author at least trying to answer questions of sexuality in a more free society. i dont agree with the authors ideas about how race would play out but at least he took on that issue. also, whats wrong with hippy porn?

Amazingly socialistic, do you not recall the folks being required to work on the logging farm if they wanted to use any lumber for construction. Sounds a lot like a collective farm to me. And maybe Porn was too strong a word to use, but he spends a considerable amount of time describing his multiple conquests and at least a paragraph whining about how one chick won't let him mess with her breasts, hardly a grandiose exploration of gender/ sexuality issues.

[SecretSatellite]

he spends a lot of time desfribing his conquests because that character is supposed to be coming from a very materialistic, patriarchal society(this one). and that doesn;t sound anything like a collective farm. working that way(at least in the book) teaches the individual where the material comes fromand its true cost. frankly, it sounds like you dont know the definition of socialsim or the difference between socialism, communism, or anarchism.

[Roody]

Amazingly socialistic, do you not recall the folks being required to work on the logging farm if they wanted to use any lumber for construction. Sounds a lot like a collective farm to me. And maybe Porn was too strong a word to use, but he spends a considerable amount of time describing his multiple conquests and at least a paragraph whining about how one chick won't let him mess with her breasts, hardly a grandiose exploration of gender/ sexuality issues.
Actually not socialist at all. In a socialist society the people (state) would own the farm and distribute the lumber to other state owned industries. In Ecotopia, you have a collectivistic or almost anarchic society, where individuals (or cooperatives composed of individuals) exploit natural resources which are not actually owned by anybody. A better description of this type (or a similar type) of society is found in Ursula K. LeGuin's SF novel The Dispossessed.