General Cycling Discussion - am I justifiably angry?

Okay, just to start it off, I'm 18 years old.
Living in Toronto, we have a 5 year high school system, meaning I'll be going into my final high school year NEXT year.

I think it would be safe to call myself one of those "academic overachivers." Academics is definitely one of the areas where I have no difficulties. I'm a good kid, in fact, I'm inclined to say I'm a dork/nerd who loves physical fitness (I alternate between running and gym everyday).

Anyways, I think I started becoming really interested in biking last September. I decided I wanted a nice road bike and started saving up money (I didn't have a job then). Right now, I've managed to save about $500 - obviously not enough for a decent bike of MY liking.

Two months ago, I asked my mom for a loan - something around $1000 - $1250. Now understand this: we are NOT poor. My family isn't well off, but it's not like we don't have money - my mom could easily lend me $1000. Of course, she said NO because

1) I didn't have a job at the time so she didn't really see a way I could pay her back
2) She has a paranoid fear about the dangers of biking
3) She thinks it's nuts to pay $1500 cdn for a road bike. She thinks bikes should be no more than $300 (good luck buying a road bike for $300)

Okay..so I move on. Fast forward to now. I finish exams, I'm one of the top in my grade and get a job at a local bike shop. I do some calculations with my current wage+hours. It'll take me about two months before I have enough cash up front for a bike - this means I'll miss out riding during summer. Go to my mom again and ask if she could give me a $1000 loan that I'll pay back in two months. I emphasize the fact I really want to have a bike to ride for the summer and I won't be able to unless she helps me out

Well she says no, and this time for the final time. She comes up with a few other half baked reasons like

a) I don't like the fact you plan to keep the bike in your room..it'll be dirty
b) There's no reason bikes should cost more than $200-$300
c) If you can pay me back, why don't you just make the money yourself (god..she doesn't understand my need to bike now during summer!)

Anyways, I'm pissed and needed somewhere to rant - now I'll probably miss out on biking for the whole summer while working at a lbs! Am I justifiably mad or am I an *******? I personally feel her reasons suck and she's being an ******* towards me. I'm quite sure there will be many of you who say I'm just another spoiled disrespectful lousy teenager bla bla bla but I think I have a good case :(

All mothers are like that. They love to piss us off. :crash:

Originally posted by KennethToronto
I'm quite sure there will be many of you who say I'm just another spoiled disrespectful lousy teenager bla bla bla but I think I have a good case :(

I wouldn't say that you're another spoiled disrespectful lousy teenager but I'm sure your mum's not 'out to get you'.

It sounds like she doesn't have any idea of the value of bikes but a lot of people don't.

Also sounds like she wants to be a little over-protective. It's hard for a parent to let go when every fibre of their being wants to protect you. That doesn't make it right - but it's understandable.

I think she should give you her reasons straight rather than the excuses she's using, but believe it or not - she's doing the best she can with what she has. Parents aren't perfect, we all make mistakes.

I can fully understand your frustration and I wish you could have your bike right away. Maybe your mum is trying to teach you the value of waiting and of working toward a goal. Who knows?

Won't the bike shop guy let you pay off the bike? Can't he take his payments out of your wages?

As for trying to get your mum to understand that bikes should stay inside and that they don't make the room dirty - if you work out how to convince her otherwise please post it. I'm sure there's a few guys here that would like to get the message across to their wives.:D

Okay, we are the younger generation. Our parents don't really know what is going on. My mom used to be so afraid that I'll get into accidents on my bike since my relative died when he was on his motorbike. Then, my grandpa thinks that there is no need to buy a bike that is expensive, I think he meant below $100 is enough. They really don't understand, so there's nothing I can do about it, other than wait till I grow up and there's completely no restrictions in what we do. My father is getting me a Litespeed, I really can't wait though, but my academic results have to be rather good. It'll be just 2 months away before I can get it. When we grow up, we just have to learn to be more giving and understand our children. We can't let history repeat itself.

well, sounds about like normal parent/offspring problem... as someone has said, your mom probably thinks she has your best interests in mind. try and figure out what these really are --- i.e. is she afraid of the dangers of cycling? does she just not like the idea of a 'kid' with such an expensive item? do she not approve of borrowing money b/c maybe she knows the dangers of debt and wants you to not develop any bad habits? anyway, if you can figure this out then maybe you can convince her...

on the other hand, sounds like your real desire is to ride! if so, then rather than sit around and complain about not having enough money for the bike you want, buy the best one that you can afford now. or do you already have a decent bike now? if you work at a bike shop you should know a good deal when you see one and be able to fix it up. then when you do later have more money, you should be able to sell whatever used bike you buy now for almost as much - used bikes don't loose value too fast unless you trash them. i bought my first road race bike at 18 used for $180 (ok, add 12 years of inflation and convert to Canadian, that's maybe $500cdn)... then you can ride and train now AND hopefully demonstrate to your mon that 1) you're serious about biking 2) it's not so dangerous since you're doing it anyway w/o the loan and 3) she'll see that it's something you're really working towards... i.e you're responsible and dedicated

plus, in the mean time you'll get to ride and train and then when you do really get that bike you want you'll really be able to use it. while a good bike is nice and you need at least something roadworthy, training and physical ability make for much more than the bike:: in college i was poor and my bike was junk and squeaked and sounded horrible, but i trained ALL THE TIME and at races guys would laugh at me and my ugly bike up until i dropped them! then they looked pretty dumb being dropped by the guy on the piece of junk!

just on a related note: between 16 and 19 i wanted a motorbike but my mom disallowed it b/c "motorbikes are too dangerous" (i ALREADY had the money from working). so since my parents were still giving me some money for college i accepted it and at 18 i bought my first road bike (described above) and starting racing which really started my love of bicycling. i had ridden as a kid and then a lot from 14-16 until i got a car when i quit b/c cycling wasn't 'cool'. later my bike got stolen and i bought a motorcycle at age 20 and just told my mom about it (i was in college and didn't live at home). it then took me a few years to figure out that i really like bicycles more than motorcycles... but maybe my mom's restriction helped me... who knows?

Buying used now is a sensible alternative. It will also give you some more experience on a bike so that you can make a much more intelligent decision when you get the money for a better bike.

It is an unfortuate situation that when we are young, we have zero tolerance for patience or waiting to get the thing we desire most. That is standard and normal, and when we can't get it we blame those around us instead of recognizing that if we want it enough, it is up to us to make it happen.

Don't be too hard on yur Mom for being "unreasonable". she's just being frightened for your safety. And, believe it or not, she's saying she loves you.

Get as much bike as you can, with the money you have.

Also. I would try to come up with a better storage system than the bedroom.

I certainly understand how you feel! But here's a few things I'd like to add to the conversation.

Your mom's money is her own, and she is under no obligation to loan it out, and doesn't really even need to make excuses. If she doesn't want to loan you bike money, that's the end of it. Whining and arguing will only make you seem childish, which will enforce her ideas about your not necessarily being mature enough to be trusted to pay her back or drive a fast vehicle safely.

On the other hand, I don't necessarily agree with the "Buy what you can afford" people, either. You will just feel as if you've settled for something you don't want.

I say, keep plugging away and sack away every penny until you can afford the bike you really want! Firstly, you will take more pride in owning your bike knowing that YOU paid for it with no help from anybody....secondly, the ability to postpone gratification is a sign of maturlty, and the fact that you waited and saved up the money yourself will probably impress your mom a lot more than promises that you'll pay her back.

(And the fact that your bike cost so darned much is likely to help convince your mom that it should be kept safely indoors! ;) )

I'm having the opposite problem. I offered to buy our oldest daughter a bike in case she needs transportation and we aren't home or a car is not available for her to use.
She would have none of that - "I'm not riding a bike to work" and "The world is a faster place now so you should buy me a car". She thinks we're going to give the Pathfinder to her when it is paid off next month (pretty funny) and that's not going to happen

thanks for the kinds posts :) I was kind of expecting teenager bashing from most of the posters since the average posting age here is likely higher than my age :) But the comments are great.

The reason for my mom's fear of bicycling is that she isn't very good at it herself (not that she's good at any sport). Moreover, when I was a kid, being the occasionally clumsy person that I am, got into a few 'minor' accidents where I flew over the handlebars or crashed etc :D

As for a bike right now - I have no bike :/ I got rid of the one I had a long long time ago (crappy xmart bike) and I've been stuck with rollerblades since.

I don't think I'll be able to convince my mom - I've bugged her/tried to reason with her too many times. I'm quite convinced she won't budge.

And yep, I know it's my mom's money - but I was hoping she'd be more understanding about this whole thing, recognize the fact that I really want to ride, and that I even got a job just so I could make money for a bike.

Right now..I think I have two options:

a) Get a second job, save every penny, and hope like mad I get $2000 by the end of summer (I have to quit working when school starts but with the crummy job market, it might be hard to find another job)

con: I miss out on ALL the summer biking and spend my summer toiling at low paying jobs.

b) Borrow some money from a couple close friends, buy the bike now (not necessarily a more pricey one..but a nice one nonetheless) and pay friends back later as money slowly drips in.

Oh, one more funny thing: She offered to pay for my car insurance for her car (cost: $900 cdn) on the condition that I don't ever buy a bike. That ticked me off! I told her I rather have a road bike than drive (my friends think I'm a ****** for that)

Originally posted by KennethToronto
Moreover, when I was a kid, being the occasionally clumsy person that I am, got into a few 'minor' accidents where I flew over the handlebars or crashed etc :D

Hee, hee...I'm 37, and MY mom still thinks I'm the same clutz I was at 8. Fat chance of changing your parental reputation....ever!



b) Borrow some money from a couple close friends, buy the bike now (not necessarily a more pricey one..but a nice one nonetheless) and pay friends back later as money slowly drips in.

Be careful about doing that....good friends are MUCH harder to find than money. Trust me, there will always be somewhere for money to come from, but real friends are few and far between.

Here's another possibility--have you considered getting a cheapo x-mart rummage sale bike to tide you over the summer? It will only cut into your savings slightly (you see them for $10...) and you will at least have something to ride until you have your dream bike.

A couple of things:

1) You're 18. If you have a job, you should be able to get a credit card. Your mother is under no obligation to extend you credit.

2) People are all different. I'm a cyclist, I ride every day, and my biggest problem is that I can't get my 17-year old son to ride any more now that he has a driver's license.

3) Not everybody is amenable to logic. Ultimately, we act based on what we believe, and belief is intrinsically irrational. We can only change what we believe from the inside, because something in out lives makes us need to change. Other people cannot make us change what we believe. And some people's ability to believe in things despite any evidence in support is truly powerful.

4) Two months is a blink of an eye. Your impatience, while understandable, is partly a product of your age.

5) You could be riding now if you set your sights lower. Your position in a bike shop should make it that much easier to locate a primo used-but-great bike you could afford now. One could make a strong argument that a used bike would be a better choice as a first "serious" bike for someone just getting into the sport. Your body is not done changing yet. You don't necessarily know what kind of riding you'll end up doing the most. You don't know your preferences in terms of fit and feel. Better to work these things out on a bike you can afford to rplace in a year if need be.

6) It's not about your mom. Blaming other people for our problems is a favorite sport in the US, but I thought you Canucks were above that sort of thing. Make your own way; create your own solutions; realize your own dreams.

7) One's relationship with one's mother is too valuable to wreck over trivialities. You need her for far more important things.

You'll work it out. Relax!

RichC

When I started biking at 28 I was flat broke, no car, a used $25 cheepie 10 speed was what I could afford, but it worked!!!
You work in a bike shop, there have got to be some tradeins that would suit you for less than $400, and any fixin you can do yourself. Post a notice your looking for such a bike if nothing else.
Good luck!!
kev:)

Hi Kenneth, I'll weigh in on the side of buying a used bike that you can afford now, or even in another month and you'll still have several months of riding. The season isn't really over, especially in your part of the country, until Oct or Nov, maybe later depending on the weather.

If you can do it without borrowing, or maybe, as someone suggested see if your boss will let you pay off the bike from your wages, you'll be independant of any debts. I would be very careful about borrowing from friends, money can easily come between people.

Maybe you can come up with alternate arrangements for storing the bike, getting rid of one of your Mom's arguments.

Your Mom is just trying her best to protect you, it's up to you to show her you can be responsible.

Good luck!

Kenneth,

1st, as others have said here about their teenagers having no interest in cycling... and my own distraction from cycling from age 16 to 18 and 20 to 22 for cars and motorcycles... i think your desire to cycle is really cool - especially since i know personally how it is perceived as so much cooler to drive during this age. actually this image doesn't end it just becomes less important and as you get older you're usually more secure to say who cares? so congrats on bucking the peer pressure image as driving as the only cool thing...

although i hope i don't sound too much like your parents::
1) be careful about getting in the habit of borrowing money. i made the mistake once and learned the hard way (mine took 2 years to pay off and i've been debt free since). SO many young people these days have debt and it just a bad idea. on the other hand, IF it's really that important and it's only 1 time, then think about it
2) although it's always nice to have good equipment, don't get caught up in the hyper-consumperism of the world today -- you don't always need the latest and greatest bike or gadget. as i alluded to in an earlier post, a good rider on a crappy bike is about 95% of the time better than a weak rider on an expensive bike. if you want to ride and be good, spend LESS on the bike so you have to work less to pay for it so you have more time to ride. Most of the guys who pay $3000+ for bikes don't have the time to ride them (note: pros don't usually pay for their bikes)

if i were you i would take the $500 you got saved up now and see if you can come up with maybe $100 to $400 or so from friends or whatever and i'm sure you can find a quite decent bike that will make you happy for quite a while. if all else fails, buy a total junker k-mart special. i disagree about the above comment about 2 months being nothing (i'm 31 and i've learned if you wait you miss out and life is plain too short). Yes, patience is a virtue, and you should not want it all NOW, but you only live once, and you should do the things you want to do ---> having ANY bike is what you need in order to meet your real goal to ride for the summer (patience is to wait for the expensive bike you really want)

but you'd be really surprised what you can find for a decent price of $100-$600 ---- as with most products, you have to pay a basic amount to get something reasonably good (say $400 for a bike) and after that you have diminishing returns: i.e. a $1000 is not usually twice as good as a $500 bike, nor a $3000 twice as good as a $1500... buy in the middle and you save AND buy used and you save... thus, i bet you could even find an almost ideal bike that's a few years old but great for like $500... maybe even someone one the bike forum in Toronto has an old but faithful they could sell you...

How old are you?

Sometimes you just have to deal with things and look for other ways. For instance:
Get a second job.
Work more hours at the LBS
Ask if the LBS would help you out with a discount
Ask the LBS if you could take the bike now and they'll deduct it from your pay
Go to someone else other than MOM, grandparents, Dad, Brother, Sister
Buy a used bike. Many good values since some people fall on hard times and need to sell theirs. Ebay, newspaper etc.

Sounds to me that for someone who so good academically you need a little common sense, and stop blaming everyone else for your lack of imagination.


;)

I recall when I was your age everyone told me that these would be the "best years of my life". Balderdash (what an antique epiphet). Your predicament is predictable and it is one of the benefits of being an adult.

I sympathize with your frustration at missing the prime riding season this year. Many of our posters seem to miss the idea that riding a bike in Toronto in say January is less than ideal.

I can sympathize with your mother. But she has not been entirely consistent. She seemed to leave the issue of getting a loan open when she mentioned that you did not have a job and now you have one, well you can make the money yourself. She is not consistent but then again many people are not. Think about it, being a parent is hard work and most parents make mistakes. If she does a good overall job, well you need to cut her some slack no matter how frustrating she seems right now on this particular issue. This is not really something that is big enough issue in my opinion to really cause a big fuss over. She will be your mother for the rest of your life so try to remember that.

On the issue of danger, well your mother is misinformed. My mother worries about my riding and I have given her the safety statistics on cycling and I am 50 years old! In your mother's support, I often don't FEEL entirely safe when I am riding even though it is safe.

As for the price of a bike. You mother is probably thinking the old "paperboy" special. She really does not know the difference a high performance road bike makes. And you might not be able to educate her on this one.

This information probably will not help you, but I hope you can understand that your mother is not being entirely unreasonable from her perspective.

By the way, in your mother's situation, I would give you the loan with a specified payback plan. Your getting good grades and having a job show responsibility. But then again, I am a cyclist and I understand your situation. If I had a kid who wanted a set of drums or something like that, that I don't understand, I could be just as blockheaded, I suppose.

As to the messiness of a bike in your room - you can possibly take steps to store your bike in your room without making a mess such as putting a rack up and putting something like a drop cloth on the floor to protect it.

Still that does not solve your current problem.

Other posters have made some suggestions.

1) Buy the bike on time from the bike shop.
2) Wait and buy later.
3) But a cheaper bike.
4) A new one - buy a used bike.

I think in order of desireablility it would go 1 then 4 then 2 then 3.

Good luck with your problem.

My folks were pretty well off and would have NEVER bought me a decent road bike--motorcycle---etc.......loan or not----I knew better to even ask.

I was 19 when I bought my first "real" road bike---it was a big heavy steel Raleigh that was on sale at the LBS---it wasn't anything special even compared to the other bikes back then---but it was mine and I earned it on my own and it was all I could afford. I rode that bike for 4 years until I could get something better. I just bought a new road bike and a new MTB this year and both are better than my old stuff---and guess what--I can afford it now. This is my 3rd roadie and my 2nd MTB.

Take your $500 and see if your employer will cut you a deal and set up a payment plan if you have to ride this year------if you want something better save it and start saving for what your want and start jogging.

The other thing is--since its your money they can't complain about how much it costs or attach any strings to it.

Leave your mother alone and quit your whining.

When I was your age, I had exactly the same problem. It boils down to this:

Your mom doesn't want to contribute to the likelihood (in her eyes) that you're going to get killed on your bike. She'll never be able to forgive herself and will fret constantly that you're lying on the road in a ditch somewhere bleeding to death and it's HER fault;

She doesn't like the idea of anything with tires that have absorbed dirt and grit and grime on the road having any contact whatsoever with her clean floors/carpet;

She's not a bike rider, never was and doesn't know anything but department store bike purchases.

and it's in that order. The first problem is one you will not be able to solve and it is the weightiest of them all so you cannot expect her to help you financially AT ALL. You are angry, justifiable or not you have to accept this.

No.s 2 and 3 can be solved but you will have to let your mom know of your intentions that you are going to have a bike and you will respect her concerns by taking care not to store the bike in such a way that it will damage her precious floors/carpets/walls, etc. Show her how you plan to do this. My mom went so far as to tell me that even if I purchased a bike out of my own money, I'd never be allowed to store it indoors. That was a problem since we lived in an apartment.

After having done all that, you will probably wind up in therapy over control issues between you and your parent(s). You will wonder when you get older and wiser why you let something like this make you angry and stressed out in the first place. ;) It's simply unAmerican to grow up any other way :p

The only alternative is to steal a bike. Start looking around for opportunities to jump on one and pedal off. People will critisize me for offering this advice, but keep in mind that these are the same people who actually paid for their bikes. If you're caught, blame your parents for not raising you properly, your mom will wish she had bought you that bike when you asked for it!

hahahahaha :D

umm im in the same situation right now. My dad said since youve been mountain biking all these years and you wanna road bike now you may not like it and everything altho i claim that i really like it as ive done it. Well he said he wont let me buy a $1200 new road bike that i wanted. So i was pissed so I started looking around for a used road bike. Found one thats mint, 6 yrs old with 600 ultegra for 400bux+tax (15%) so 460bux. He said i could buy that bike and start off of it and see how I like it.

It all depends on the parents you have, like my wife and I are very supportive of my son to ride his bike, even when he was like 11 years old we would enourage him to join bike races, and when he was 18 years old I, bought him a nice Pinarello Bike, with Shimano ultegra Groupo, see, if your parent are into biking your parent would probably encourage you to ride a bike, and might even buy you a high -end Bike....try not to get mad at your mom, you will only have one mom and that's it for you, just one:beer: :beer: :thumbup: :thumbup:and to answer your'e question, "No your not justified in getting mad at your mom"

and mind you I am not rich, but if my kid ask for something and I know it will improved their lives, I try not to say no, try learning on "How to get what you want in a more persuasive manner.., I can bet you, mom will not say no to you if you have convince her about the benifit of a having a bike

Ken, lots of the bike shops I know have a policy of "90 days same as cash," which means that you'd have to pay off about $1,000 in 12 weeks, which is less than $85 dollars a week...would that work?

Lots of good advice going out to you. One warning I have not seen - cycling can be a very expensive sport. That's why the advice to get a cheapie or good used bike is very good advice. At your age, the bike is not going to slow you down! If it helps, I rode a cheap hybrid for 3 years until I could afford a road bike, then ended up buying a used Trek 2300 for $400. I have had the Trek for 6 years and see no reason to replace it. I just keep upgrading. Working in a shop you should come across a lot of good upgrade opportunities at a good price. Of course, that's why cycling can be an expensive sport. Then there are shoes (good ones are $200-$250), pedals ($100-$300), helmet ($50-$200), clothing (shorts, gloves, socks, warmers, covers, jackets, etc), tools, tubes, tires (good ones are around $50 each), bag(s), glasses, wheels (you'll envy the people with the high end wheels), etc......

Missing one cycling season seems tough right now but won't be a big deal the next season when you have that new ride to use. Ride junk now, get what you want when you can afford it. Let your mom buy you some of the good upgrades when she sees how much you enjoy biking!

Hope that helps.

Kenneth,

It is amazing just how much you and me have in common.

First of all, I am also 18, but I'm actually going to second year of University next year. I'm also in Canada

Secondly, I also had this problem convinving my parents that how much I had to pay for a bike.

Last year all I had was my brother's wal-mart bike. I didn't even dream of paying over a $1000 for a bike. But I rode it everywhere. I rode it for fun. I rode it for fitness. I didn't complain a whole lot. Looking back I cant belive just how much I rode that 50 lbs hunk of metal.

Then the Univesrstiy semester started and I had to put biking aside for a while. During this time I realized just how much I love biking and that's when I decided that I'm gonna spend good money on a good bike.

For over months I researched and researched. I told my parents about my decision and they were shocked! OVER A GRAND FOR A BIKE??? Are you kidding? What are you gonna be, a racer?

They just didn't undersand. But I was patient. Day by day I brought in biking into our conversation. I didn't act frustrated at all. One day we are all eating dinner and I would just talk about biking and how fun it is, how environmentally friendly... etc.

later on I patiently explained to them just what the difference between a road bike and a wal-mart bike. They understood.

My real purpose for a bike was training, but that's how I made my parents understand just how dear this was to me.

When I bought the bike, they were still a tad disappointed at my decision. They constantly would tell me: "Wow, for a little bit more than that you could have bought a car".

then I would say: "Sure, show me a car i can pedal and I will return this bike right now".

Now they see I go out for hours each day and just how much I love it, and they are happy for me. The other I told them I'm gonna spend the same amount I bought the bike for upgrades, and they weren't shocked at all. They understood.

So anyways, my advice would be to check out the buy and sell ads for a quality used bike. There are lot of them out there. If you get a new road bike for $1500, you have to realize how much tax comes on top of it and also the money you;ll need for various accessories and clothing and shoes... etc. They don't come cheap.

For about your budget right now you can find a good used road bike. Train with it for one year or two. Then move up from there.

Sometimes a humble begining is the best thing you could ask for.

Rent Breaking Away on video. Get a copy of It's not About the Bike and let your mom read the parts about lance Armstrong's determination to ride again...

Print out Amir's post and show it to your mother...

She might change her mind.

Remember, though: she is your mother. She gave you life. She thinks of you as part of her. She thinks she is acting in your best interests. Cut her some slack.

I would think that a parent would be happy that their kid wants to do something athletic instead of sitting around and stuffing their face- would she be happier lending you money for a video game, or a car? I agree that the logic is screwed- cars are more dangerous to teens, and in terms of sports, there are more injuries from hockey than from cycling. It's the old stigma that only little kids should ride bikes.

That said, I think maybe you should think of the second-hand option. It doesn't mean you have to buy an old beat up bike but you don't have to get a brand new one. Maybe find a second hand frame and see if you can get the guys at your bike shop to give you a good deal on components and then put a bike together that way. You don't have to miss the whole summer just because you can't get the new bike of your dreams. Use your motivation and imagination to find a solution.

And no, blaming people for your problems is not limited to the US- canadians do it too, but i think the trend migrated from the US.:p

Think used. Used road bikes are, at least down here in the States, fantastic bargains as roadies get suckered by the latest techno-frauds. You're in Toronto? I hear of several good used bike stores there. Four words: Used road bike=bargain.
Happy hunting!

Thanks for the awesome advice guys :)

I decided I'd just let this whole bike/money issue with my mom slide. I'm still disappointed, still slightly frustrated from the fact that she won't support me in this 'little' hobby of mine, but I'll just accept it and move on.

I just got back from work...I'll probably be trying to find another job tomorrow (maybe working at Starbucks!). As I see it, I'll probably have to miss out on July for biking and setting my sights on purchasing a road bike in August.

I never considered a used bike - my original intention was to buy either a Giant OCR1 or OCR2 :) I'll probably spend July looking around for used bikes now but I plan to keep my options open.

And you guys are definitely right about biking as an expensive sport! At the lbs, they had two Look carbon fiber forks for $850 cdn each! Yikes. I also realize that I'll have to spend about $150 for a pair of shoes, probably $150-$200 for pedals, and around $75 for a pair of pants. Yikes!

As for some of the comments - nothing could be closer to the truth than what oceanrider said. One of the reasons why she doesn't want to help fund the bike is because she'd feel incredibly guilty if I was injured while biking (yet she still offers to pay for my car insurance if I don't bike)

I think this thread has shown that you are becoming a mature adult at a rapid rate. I hope that your mother sees that in you.

You've explained the problem. You've been prepared to listen to other perspectives. You're now making decisions based on what you know to be true as well as the advice of other people. You've showed incredible respect for everyone's input. (Even those responses that haven't been to your liking.)

You're learning a lesson that people many years older than you still can't take on board. You're learning to compromise. You're prepared to go with a solution that isn't your favourite. You're learning to let the little things go. Of course you'd still like the new bike yesterday but being prepared to look at other options shows a great deal of maturity.

I'm impressed.:)

i.e. Print out this thread, and leave it on the dining room table for your mom to find later ... ;)

kenneth,
and since you live in toronto, Why don't you check "sport swap, at Yonge and davisville, I think thay have already displayed their used bike in the store,, or try emailing another member we have here his member name is 'mdiri" well his real name is Michael, I have help him a get good bike with in the range of his budget, so everything is not loss, you can still buy the bike of your dreams and still ride it thru the summer, i just don't want to post the name of the Bike store where he bought it I might be guilty of business advertisment here so, if you want you can email me, at orguasch@hotmail.com, and since your agonizing on the bike, I want to help you, and ride your hearts out

Your country has a few bike brands that are good-quality and bargains new--look for Miele, Gardin, Marinoni in used bike ads. If you're super lucky, maybe a used Mariposa.

Miele belongs to my boss eh eh eh ..

Originally posted by KennethToronto
Thanks for the awesome advice guys :)

I decided I'd just let this whole bike/money issue with my mom slide. I'm still disappointed, still slightly frustrated from the fact that she won't support me in this 'little' hobby of mine, but I'll just accept it and move on.

I just got back from work...I'll probably be trying to find another job tomorrow (maybe working at Starbucks!). As I see it, I'll probably have to miss out on July for biking and setting my sights on purchasing a road bike in August.

I never considered a used bike - my original intention was to buy either a Giant OCR1 or OCR2 :) I'll probably spend July looking around for used bikes now but I plan to keep my options open.

As for some of the comments - nothing could be closer to the truth than what oceanrider said. One of the reasons why she doesn't want to help fund the bike is because she'd feel incredibly guilty if I was injured while biking (yet she still offers to pay for my car insurance if I don't bike)

That's the irony I was referring to- as if somehow, cars are so much safer!

The good thing is that in midsummer, bike shops start having sales, so set your sights on saving up your money until then, if no good second-hand deals come along. Then you'll still have until at least november to get in some kind of a season.

Originally posted by KennethToronto

con: I miss out on ALL the summer biking and spend my summer toiling at low paying jobs.



It sounds like you are smart!
It sounds like you are ambitious!
It sounds like you really want a bike!

My advise is to find something that will allow all three.

How about this.

Buy a reasonable used bike with what you have now.
Use that bike to make money--In sales you have unlimited income potential. Find something door to door. I bet there are all kinds of things you are capable of selling.
Make as much if not more than your mother does, Is not Canada a capitalist society???

Do you understand what capitalism is?? That means you have the choice to do what you want with your money.

BTW, if you can save $500 then you must have some type of goal setting abilities!! That is what life is all about.

Having dreams-- to have a nice bike.
Setting goals-- they way to get that nice bike
Having bigger dreams----
Setting bigger goals----

The problem with most people in society is they lose something between their dreams and goals. Alot of people have big dreams, but small goals that won't allow them to reach those goals.

Maybe go to the library and get some books. Goal Setting, sales, owning a business...

Good luck, sounds to me you are on the right track!!!

Hey, you're mom's pretty generous. Obviously her issue is with bicycle safety and practicality. I'll bet she's very practical. She doesn't realize that cycling is a viable means of transportation and some of us use it almost exclusively. When you think of it that way, the idea of dropping a thousand bucks on a strong reliable bike doesn't seem out of the ballpark.

Glad you decided to cut your mom some slack on this one. You can't change her attitude but you can work on problem solving instead. If you want to take it a step further, you might take a bicycle safety course offered by your community and let your mom know you will be a responsible rider. Certainly couldn't hurt and you just might learn something that will save your life in a pinch and give you some initial confidence. You don't just get on a bike and start riding in the thick of traffic. At least I didn't.

And maybe you didn't realize but you're sitting pretty working in a bike shop. A few hundred or even a thousand doesn't buy a whole lot of new road bike but used... you can customize very nicely with those discounts and learn from the wrench. You can wind up with a really sweet machine versus a run of the mill bike that will quickly lose it's value if you know what you're looking for. You can spec to your heart's desire in your own good time.

I agree with comment above that your relationship with your mom is the most important thing. Also, it is not so important now what you ride as that you ride. My friend who for years had no real job, you look around on the street that night before trash was picked up. He got himself some "decent" rideable bikes that way. He still has no bike worth bragging about, but he is a good rider and rides all around. Again, for now, it is the riding, not what you ride. I think you will see that once you get on the bike. Also, check out used bikes. Best!

If my daughter does as good in school as you seem to I would gladly reward her hard work with a new bike. I think your mom is being a bit inconsiderate of the situation. I would not spoil you with gifts but a reasonable request like this is a good thing for you.

Sounds to me like your mom should be given an award for trying to teach you to manage your money. I know a lot of people who are 40 years old, living like they were wealthy, and are one paycheck away from missing mortgage payments on their too-grand house. Guess what, every one of them probably had parents that would "lend" them money so they could get their heart's desire (of the moment) right away instead of waiting a few weeks or months.

I know it's hard to believe right now, but your mom is doing you a big favor. Do you really want to be 18 years old, still in school, and in DEBT for cryin' out loud?!

Bottom line, don't borrow money (from anyone) for anything but an absolute necessity, and no matter how it may seem now, having a "good" bike is not a necessity!

John

So I'm almost 56, and my Mom still worries about my safety riding my bike. It is a mother's job to worry. I know this well, my son is 28. I worry about his snowboarding Tuckerman's Ravine on Mt. Washington, the only place near us that has a real avalanche risk. I worried about his skateboarding and freestyle bike riding when he was younger. The hard part of being a mom is the letting go and watching your kids fly on their own, especially at first because it means they WILL fall. I had a similar problem with the price of bikes. We had gotten Josh a bike that was reasonable at our LBS. He wanted a Haro freestyle that was over $600. That seemed an awful lot for a 11 yr old's bike that might be stolen and we said no. So Josh got a paper route and started upgrading components, turning his BMX into a freestyle bike. Then he ordered a frame that our LBS let him make weekly payments on. Ultimately over the course of a year he built the Haro freestyle he wanted. Then one afternoon on his paper route it was stolen while he was putting the paper in a door. We all learned a lot out of that experience. Dan & I came to respect Josh's committment and desire for that bike. Josh learned that our concerns weren't unfounded. We all learned how good our homeowner's insurance was. We learned that our LBS had a great heart, they cut their profit margin to the slimmest in re-ordering his bike. This time we loaned him the difference so he could keep his paper route to pay us back.

So my advice to you is accept that your Mom, for all sorts of motherly reasons, isn't going to sign on to this project. Then decide, do you want to ride or dream this summer. This won't be the last time you face this decision in your life. Maybe you won't be able to go to your first choice college, or win your first race, what do you do then? Dreams give us the desire to try new things, reality gives us the opportunity to do things. I'm with those who suggest finding a used bike in your budget. Afterall, if you are working in a bike shop, you will have people around to help and advise on any up-grade or re-build. Also, you will have a rain bike for when you do get your dream bike.

I agree, she has no OBLIGATION to give you money, but it's also not like you're asking for money to get your girlfriend a boob job. It's something that's healthy and worthy! As for the risks, point out to her that teenagers frequently drive cars and that more accidents happen in cars than on bikes (more serious fatal accidents), and I am sure she lets you drive the car. And any sport has risks, no matter what. What's the alternative- sitting at home getting no exercise?I think your mother should be happy that you aren't some lazy fat little rug rat who sits home and plays video games and eats cheetos!

The problem, someone else said, is that many people have no idea what bikes are about. She probably thinks you want to do freeriding off cliffs or something. If that were the case, then I for sure would be reluctant.

Let me start this by telling you that I am a H.S. math teacher and you have just gotten a poor grade on part of your original post. That being your statement that taking two months for you to save the funds necessary to purchase a bike will cause you to miss the summer riding season. As today is March 1 and two months from now will be May 1, you will still be 7-8 weeks from 'the summer riding season'.

My guess is that your LBS will sell you something used for very little money so you will have a ride. In the meantime, save your money and buy what you want when you have your $1200. Sell your beater at that time if you don't want two bikes. But, you will not miss the summer riding season.

invite your mom to the lbs, let her see how much most bikes cost .... then let it slide, bugging a mom about things that obviously bother her will only make her stick to her original thoughts on not lending you money for a bike
i like the idea that you would rather ride than drive.. good for you

now i hope that you got to the bike show this weekend.. because there are some really good deals on... unfortunately for me i just happened to find 95% of the sales/bikers there really really snobby. I was genuinely surprised.. and took my cash back home :(

however i did get to see Holm, Leech and Coope do some wild stuff on their bikes and unicycle involving ramps and a dumpy mazda.lol They were really nice guys too.

This is a moot discussion. Don't mean to be critical, but the original post and much of the original discussion were from 6/26/02. If I remember correctly, we have seen a photo of Kenneth's new bike.

Although this is an old post, there was one issue which was not considered. It is difficult for some people to believe the price of bikes.

When I bought a new car in 1969, I paid $4000 for it. A new car of a similar type costs over $30,000. People still pay the high price of modern cars because they have been educated by advertising that new cars don't cost $4000 any more.

Bicycles, on the other hand, have not had the same amount of advertising. Bikes in 1969 cost $75 so even with inflation, many people suppose that a bike might cost a maximum of $200.

So if young people are going to convince their parents and married people are going to convince their spouses, there has to be a process of education. My suggestion is to round up a bunch of bike catalogs and magazines and put the price in the catalogs (you can get the price from the internet). Then leave the books in a variety of places -- in the bathroom reading room, in the pile of books and magazines beside your parent's easy chair, bedroom reading table, etc. Even mail a flyer in a manila envelope addressed to your parents.

Also, include literature on bikes that are worth $5000. Then $1500 bikes will look like a bargain.

Education of parents is every child's responsibility:D

LOL.... talk about bringing a thread back from the grave!

Stor Mand,

Opps.. Both of my kids thought the same thing...that I should buy them a car... HAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAHAHAAHAHa!

Originally posted by HalfHearted
Sounds to me like your mom should be given an award for trying to teach you to manage your money. ...
Bottom line, don't borrow money (from anyone) for anything but an absolute necessity, and no matter how it may seem now, having a "good" bike is not a necessity!

YES!!!

Blame my Scottish DNA, but my $0.02 worth is:

Earn your own money, and pay cash for everything except real estate. Do not demand instantaneous gratification in any material purchase. Interest payments and material lust are the biggest sucker traps in western civilization.

Working at a bike shop, you should have no trouble locating a good used bike, such as a customer trade-in.

The world does not owe you a brand-new high-end bicycle. Neither does your mother.