View Full Version : Question about Critical Mass
I have a question about critical mass, I went to the PIttsburgh one once, and wondering what I saw is standard for all CM.
First let me say I love the idea of Critical Mass as stated on the web sites.
Now for what I saw when I went, I saw most of the people 90%+ blowing red lights, I saw one guy on a bike cut off a SUV (stupid in my opion) and they were taking up all four lanes on forbes when only 2 could have been used. My question is this normal at most critical masses? If not is it posable to setup a differiant group of critical mass in an area, one that will stress obeadiance to the law, or is it a problem with mob mantality?
I would love to do another critical mass but not with what I saw that time.
recursive
05-19-05, 09:12 AM
I went to one CM here in Madison, and it seems true that the mantra "We aren't blocking traffic, we are traffic" doesn't really hold up.
CMs seem to intentionally go slowly and occupy as many lanes as possible. This wouldn't be necessary if the goal was actually just to raise visibility and awareness of cyclists. They intentionally get in the way, when there is really no reason to, other than creating a confrontation. If they were really "just traffic", they would behave like other traffic, for example slow vehicles keep right, and for example not intentionally slowing down all the other vehicles behind them.
If they did ride like traffic, I would go to more CMs, but as it is, I can't support that cause.
sswartzl
05-19-05, 08:22 PM
It's not just Critical Mass. I just rode in the Pedal Pittsburgh event last weekend, and the vast majority of riders there also seemed to think traffic laws were something for other people. They were blowing through red lights and stop signs, taking up multiple lanes, not signaling turns, pretty much disregarding all the fundamental rules of the road. The organizers stressed following the law, but that really didn't seem to have much of an impact.
77Univega
05-19-05, 09:06 PM
--- Those irresponsible cyclists reflect poorly on the bicycliing community and I, for one, condemn their behavior. If I lived in one of those cities, I would write letters to the editor of the newspapers stating that as a bicyclist I do not condone any mob mentality displayed at a CM event.
DamianM
05-19-05, 10:03 PM
My only experience with CM here in Sydney was a few years ago as a pedestrian. Trying to walk on the sidewalk and nearly being taken out by 10 cyclists trying to get to the front of the pack.
Turned me off CM forever, even now that I ride I don't think I'd ever get involved with CM.
Search the forums. There's plenty of information here in the archives, good and bad, for and against. Just remember, (1) have an open mind, and (2) we're all bicyclists, and we're in this together. :)
See this, and read it.
http://www.cars-suck.org/littera-scripta/LAB-talk.html
Miracle Whip
05-20-05, 01:12 PM
Critical Mass, follow the sheep
scarry, I did read that artical, the my main problem is, if you break the laws just to be a pain in peoples buts, then they are not going to care about your rights when you are within your rights.
What I mean is if a biker makes a drivers life misrable, that driver is not going to give bikers the benifite of the doubt, and might end up being anti-biker. Critical mass as I see it does not help the cause of bikers but hinders it.
Do you just want to be mean to people who drive cars, or do you want to 1) have them give respect to bikers 2) maybe get them to be bikers like us, you catch more flys with honey then with vinager. Critical mass is the vinager, we need to do something that would be the honey, what that is I don't know.
scarry, I did read that artical, the my main problem is, if you break the laws just to be a pain in peoples buts, then they are not going to care about your rights when you are within your rights.
What I mean is if a biker makes a drivers life misrable, that driver is not going to give bikers the benifite of the doubt, and might end up being anti-biker. Critical mass as I see it does not help the cause of bikers but hinders it.
Do you just want to be mean to people who drive cars, or do you want to 1) have them give respect to bikers 2) maybe get them to be bikers like us, you catch more flys with honey then with vinager. Critical mass is the vinager, we need to do something that would be the honey, what that is I don't know.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion. There are those who disagree. Motorists are going to be facing more vinager than rowdy bicyclists can dish out. Like dramatically inflating gas prices. Now maybe you are one of those folks that thinks that oil will last forever, or that some magic new technology will power cars in the future, but events are starting to show otherwise.
http://peakoil.blogspot.com/
Cheers
Critical Mass, follow the sheep
No, this is sheep.
http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_pages/0001-0410-1815-3321.html
first, I don't even own a car, and I think rising oil prices are a good thing (I will cover this later if I have to) but what I am saying is if we anger car drivers when (if) the time comes for them to help us they will be very unlikly to help us.
first, I don't even own a car, and I think rising oil prices are a good thing (I will cover this later if I have to) but what I am saying is if we anger car drivers when (if) the time comes for them to help us they will be very unlikly to help us.
Once again you are entitled to your opinion. Many of us do not agree. Does this mean that you support repressive police action to put a stop to peoples right to assemble and ride in the street in groups.
Now I'm not supportive of yahoo members of the CM community who behave in extreme maner, but we have to stick together, or we will be divided, and pitted against each other.
I'm not worried about angering car drivers, because soon they will be begging us to buy our old un-used bikes. We will be asked to help them.
Does this mean that you support repressive police action to put a stop to peoples right to assemble and ride in the street in groups.
How did you pull this out of anything that mpop said?
How did you pull this out of anything that mpop said?
The same way he connected the rising price of fuel with the right to piss off drivers.
phinney
05-21-05, 05:54 AM
If a large group of people on bicycles make a driver late because they fail to follow traffic laws and yield the right of way what do you think that driver might do the next time he should yield the right of way to a single cyclist?
drumbum
05-21-05, 04:56 PM
I have a question about critical mass, I went to the PIttsburgh one once, and wondering what I saw is standard for all CM.
First let me say I love the idea of Critical Mass as stated on the web sites.
Now for what I saw when I went, I saw most of the people 90%+ blowing red lights, I saw one guy on a bike cut off a SUV (stupid in my opion) and they were taking up all four lanes on forbes when only 2 could have been used. My question is this normal at most critical masses? If not is it posable to setup a differiant group of critical mass in an area, one that will stress obeadiance to the law, or is it a problem with mob mantality?
I would love to do another critical mass but not with what I saw that time.
I'm from Pittsburgh and have been wanting to ride CM for some time now. I'm a highschool student though, and have 2 questions for you:
1) How safe is it?
2) What's the crowd like? Any organization at all? Random riders all converging?
thanks!
bunnyrabbit
05-21-05, 05:46 PM
Critical Mass is cute and all, but bike commuting on a daily basis is real. CM, as fun and exiting as it may be, is a temper tantrum that alienates more than anything else. If you actually want to see the number of cars reduced and the number of bikers increased, you want to show the driving public that bike transportation is safe, normal, and practical. A driver has to see themself on the bike, not cower in confused terror while bands of vicious bike rebels ransack the streets.
Or we could just ban or severely restrict personal automobiles from urban centers... (you'd think parking issues and gridlock would be enough, but obviously not)
I'm from Pittsburgh and have been wanting to ride CM for some time now. I'm a highschool student though, and have 2 questions for you:
1) How safe is it?
2) What's the crowd like? Any organization at all? Random riders all converging?
thanks!
1) I would say depends how you ride, if you don't follow the crowed you should be safe, but you will get seperated from them
2) They people are generaly nice before the ride, I did go once and I will admit they are ok people, I just think they go about the protest in the wrong way. The are semi-organized
other notes:
I have seen some cut off SUVs (just stupid, for 2 reasons, one you are not going to get any favoriable feelings from some one you cut off, and two if the SUV does not stop in time, the SUV will win and you will lose)
they take up all 3 lanes on forbes, and that is not right, don't get me wrong I am not a cager I don't even have a car, but they do not need to take up all 3 lanes, every one in critical mass could stay on the far right lane.
But IMHO if you want to raise arawnes of bikers on the road, maybe it might be more profatable to do a side walk protest, holding signs (leaveing room for people to walk pass) maybe some images of people that have been hit by cars while on their bikes. Signs talking about how bikes are also ligit road traffic, etc.
I can not say for you if you should go or not, but I would encorage you not to go.
Or we could just ban or severely restrict personal automobiles from urban centers... (you'd think parking issues and gridlock would be enough, but obviously not)
I like that idea, I doubt there is evan a reason to have cars in downtown pittsburgh at all, but the problem is, try to convice the people who belive "that they "need" their car to drive even 2 blocks", that they don't need them, and they would be better off just walking it (I think cars might be part of the problem of the obesity problem the US has.)
wdbike.com
05-23-05, 12:26 PM
i ride my bike a lot - in a typical spring or summer month, i will generally ride anywhere from 60-80 hours (1000-1600 miles). in the winter it's more like 40-60 hours. in order to be competitive out here in the races, lots of training is required. i do my best to obey traffic laws, excepting the occasional unoccupied backroads stoplight, and i am polite to any driver that is polite to me. spending that much time on a bike, it becomes that much more important to have a collegial relationship with the majority users of the road.
now it seems to me that what cyclists should be shooting for is equal rights. much as i hate gasoline and poor drivers and smog, i cannot condone the idea that bicyclists are somehow morally superior to motorists. just like them, we are people doing what we want to do, and the way in which we use the road often has less to do with some abstract idea of saving the world than it does with our own personal preferences. just like them, cyclists come in both the well- and the poorly-behaved variety. and just like them, we tend to lump all of the people in the other category in together ("drivers suck" rather than "that driver sucks").
the roads themselves were paved so that automobiles could travel more efficiently, and like it or not, cars are what city planners think of when roads are planned. as an avid cyclist, i would like that to change. but i can say with certainty that it will not change so long as city planners think of cyclists as nuisances rather than as legitimate users. so i agree that we should all stick together - and to me that means not doing things that are contrary to our best interests as a group, eg. critical mass. so those of you who are cm adherents, rather than flame me, please think about how it would seem to you if motorists started impeding your riding with car doors, parking cars in bike lanes, or intentionally running red lights to mess with you. perhaps worse, think about how it would seem if the voters in your city started clamoring to make cycling illegal.
wdbike.com thanks that was what I was tring to say, but you did it very very well and for that I thank you. And that last thing was what I was tring to make my main point as talking against cm.
emilymildew
05-23-05, 12:52 PM
I can tell you specifically why they take up the lanes on Forbes, if you are interested in hearing an opinion that doesn't follow your own.
And you're welcome to take this as CM apologist.
On specific sections of roads, especially Forbes through Oakland, the traffic really isn't going to be able to go much faster than we are (~15 mph) because of the way the lights are structure and how much traffic is usually going on. Taking up all the lanes means that we can't be passed by people who are rushing to get places and we won't get right-hooked by people who are turning right onto a side street.
Yes, it sucks, and yes, it probably pisses some drivers off. If you want to talk more about CM, I'd be happy to talk to you about why I do it and why I think it is useful and good, but I don't see any willingness on your part to accept another viewpoint.
ngateguy
05-23-05, 01:40 PM
Yes, it sucks, and yes, it probably pisses some drivers off. If you want to talk more about CM, I'd be happy to talk to you about why I do it and why I think it is useful and good, but I don't see any willingness on your part to accept another viewpoint.
Personally I have seen zero positive impact on my riding rights here in Seattle from any CM gathering. They just seem to agitate the drivers more than they need to.
On specific sections of roads, especially Forbes through Oakland, the traffic really isn't going to be able to go much faster than we are (~15 mph) because of the way the lights are structure and how much traffic is usually going on. Taking up all the lanes means that we can't be passed by people who are rushing to get places and we won't get right-hooked by people who are turning right onto a side street.
Well I do know that on Forbes that if you can get 25 mph (that is the posted speed limit IIRC) you can hit all green lights, back when I use to drive (I stopped driving in October of last year (and at that point I was driving very little maybe 20 miles a month), and ditch the car in April, was costing to much to keep and I was not even driving it about $100USD a month, it was not worth it) I could get off the highway and blast right down Forbes (at 25mph). And on Forbes it is not hard for a biker to get up to 25mph from McD.s to the cathedral, I do it all the time, and I am by no means a fast biker. To go only 15 mph in all the lanes seam to be just to annoy the drivers.(it is down hill so 25mph is not hard to get)
I am willing to listen to your statements, but I still contend that the law is there not to harm us, but to protect all, sometimes the law seams unfair, and some times the law is unfair, but it is the law and we need to abide by it, and the law does say we must be in the far right lane (except when we are going to make a left hand turn) and no more then 2 bikes abreast (I think this should be set to the whole lane that a group of bikers can take up a whole lane in a multilane road, but till then). I am all for making Oakland a car free zone, but till that day.
Don't get me wrong I don't hate the people that do critical mass, I just think that they might be hurting the cause more then helping.
What I think would be a better use of time would be if every one that does critical mass, still got together and planed straights for lobbing city counsel for better biking infrastructure. We only have 5 (yes 5!) miles of bike lanes, and 27 miles of bike trails, they are promising to go to 100 miles of bike lanes, I think it would be better if we were to lobby for all roads to have bike lanes, hay most of us who bike in the city are city residence and pay taxes unlike the cagers that drive in, and the roads in the city are not paid for by the state but by the city (OUR TAXES). Maybe if we could get a list of city counsel meetings and if we could get a large enough group to go down each one can make a statement (to my understanding statements can be no more then 5 minutes long so if we could get 25 people to go down we could get 125 minutes of bike talk put forth). Letters to the editor of the PG might help also, PSA's on the TV (we all know how much cagers love TV)
Sorry about the long winded responce.
wdbike.com
05-23-05, 02:33 PM
I can tell you specifically why they take up the lanes on Forbes, if you are interested in hearing an opinion that doesn't follow your own.
And you're welcome to take this as CM apologist.
On specific sections of roads, especially Forbes through Oakland, the traffic really isn't going to be able to go much faster than we are (~15 mph) because of the way the lights are structure and how much traffic is usually going on. Taking up all the lanes means that we can't be passed by people who are rushing to get places and we won't get right-hooked by people who are turning right onto a side street.
Yes, it sucks, and yes, it probably pisses some drivers off. If you want to talk more about CM, I'd be happy to talk to you about why I do it and why I think it is useful and good, but I don't see any willingness on your part to accept another viewpoint.
i don't know why you want to look at our perspective as simple intolerance. to do so dismisses the point that we are trying to make, which is that angry motorists with overwhelmingly larger pools of political influence do not help any cycling cause. if i were in my car and a traffic jam were being caused by cyclists blatantly disobeying traffic laws, i would be angry - and i'm a cycling advocate, way out of the mainstream on this issue!
please feel free to explain why you participate in cm, as you have offered. but in the course of the discussion, i would like to hear a personal anecdote about even one person who, held up on their way home from work (or even just having perceived that they were held up), came up to you and said, "my eyes are opened, i guess cyclists belong on the road after all."
because i think that those motorists who aren't pissed off by cm are a distinct minority. and frankly, i'm glad that boulder doesn't have one because i think it makes things safer for me personally.
brokenrobot
05-23-05, 03:02 PM
please think about how it would seem to you if motorists started impeding your riding with car doors, parking cars in bike lanes, or intentionally running red lights to mess with you. perhaps worse, think about how it would seem if the voters in your city started clamoring to make cycling illegal.
I've thought about it a lot, given that that's EXACTLY the world I live in - except, perhaps, that motorists aren't doing such things "just to mess with" me - they're doing it because they have no respect for others, a condition I believe is encouraged by automobiles. Drivers endanger others in ways they'd never consider in any other aspect of their lives, and they do so because something about the act of driving tends to depersonalize others.
There are no legal repercussions, even when they kill us, and because cyclists are viewed as low-caste there aren't any moral repercussions either.
That, in fact, is why I ride CM. I believe that cyclists are NOT a lesser class of person, and that the laws designed to protect cyclists and pedestrians MUST be enforced. CM is a very effective tool for raising public awareness, and (at least in New York) is viewed in an overwhelmingly positive light by the vast majority of our fellow citizens. If your concern is that we're pissing off people with political influence, you might take a moment to consider exactly why a minority in the city has so much more influence than the majority.
And yes: on more than one occasion, I've been approached by onlookers who, in the course of our conversation, affirmed an intent to ride more and drive less - and even to join CM in later months. Getting around by bike is much, much faster than any of the alternatives in the City, and a lot people realize that but are afraid to take on traffic - and awareness that huge numbers of cyclists do so every day can help them overcome that fear.
I know: not a lot of this applies to Boulder. But progressive Boulder is also a vastly safer city for cyclists than most; perhaps CM is genuinely not needed there.
wdbike.com
05-23-05, 03:22 PM
I've thought about it a lot, given that that's EXACTLY the world I live in - except, perhaps, that motorists aren't doing such things "just to mess with" me - they're doing it because they have no respect for others, a condition I believe is encouraged by automobiles. Drivers endanger others in ways they'd never consider in any other aspect of their lives, and they do so because something about the act of driving tends to depersonalize others.
they're not doing it just to mess with you. they're doing it because they are angry. and the condition of having no respect for others is commonly associated with believing one is right and the other side is just wrong - not with driving.
slagjumper
05-23-05, 08:47 PM
While many do run the lights and stuff the websites do not advocate this behavior.
http://criticalmassrides.info/
http://www.critical-mass.org
Also-- I did the 60 mile Pedal Pittsburgh and saw many bikers running lights, invading both sides of cars at lights and cutting out infront of cars. Actually much worse etiquette than the last PGH CM ride. Really I am not just saying that. A non-biking coworker even complained to me about the pedal pittsburgh bikers for blowing through lights.
Many people have complained to me about CM. It reminds me of the debates about south africa. You remember things like-- "If you stop investing in SA, people will suffer--mothers and babies will die". But what happened? We even built an ugly eye sore "shanty town" at U of Pitts' Cathedral and camped out. We got the Chancelor to divest from the racist government of RSA.
Sometimes you have to do the unpopular to get people to pay attention.
I think that its up to individuals to create handouts that express their bike-advocacy pov and hand them out to car drivers and other onlookers. Sure there might be more effective means to get the bike word out, but none that are so common and draw such consistant crowds as CM.
For all the people who say things like CM is bad because they put biking in a bad light-- what are you doing? Being absent from the scene is no help to the cause. Go to a CM ride, make up a handout, bring a crappy bike and say hi and be polite to motorists. Bring a camera and portable scanner and have a blast.
BTW-- the most irresponsible behavior that I saw was from a car that blew past in the wrong lane in front of Mellon Instituite. I saw no police for the whole ride all 5- 7 miles.
10timesbetter
05-23-05, 09:07 PM
I have pretty much no hope for people in cars wanting to ride bikes, i don't go to critical mass to try and woo people into the world of bikes, but in pittsburgh atleast, I see just as many people cheering from the sidewalks as i do people giving us dumb looks. even though we could be nice to cars, take up one lane, whatever, I've had too many car mirrors fly past my head when I was trying to be nice. most cars probably think i'm an ass for taking up a whole lane in traffic, but when you stay to the right, every car tries to pass you in your own lane 4 inches from your shoulder, and as far as cars sticking to that slower traffic to the right, i've had more cars than I can count ride up on my ass and start honking, just because they were too stubborn to move into the other lane and pass me, and all i do is slow down, cause i'm tired of almost getting killed cause too many people are too important to slow down. Critical mass isn't a protest, it's supposed to be a celebration, just a ton of kids going out for a bike ride, and as far as pittsburgh, we have a great time, everyone is nice as can be, we do go through stop signs and red lights, but we make sure no one's coming first, and we block the other lanes to make sure cars don't try to squeeze through and hurt anyone. I'm pretty sure the most basic part of it all, is that cars take up so much space, and cause pretty much a world wide traffic jam, so one day out of the month we're gonna make our own traffic jam, and they're just gonna have to deal with it. and I know, it's irresponsible, we're only pissing cars off, and we should think of the people who ride their bikes every day, instead of us who come out one night a month to piss off traffic and then park our bikes the rest of the month, but I spend half my day on the road, and whatever anyone wants to do to piss off cars will get a thumbs up from me
slagjumper
05-23-05, 09:14 PM
because i think that those motorists who aren't pissed off by cm are a distinct minority. and frankly, i'm glad that boulder doesn't have one because i think it makes things safer for me personally.
People are going to die riding bikes with or without CM. I actually would like to get the CM ride to go in rush hour, so that we can blow past all of those cars stuck in traffic jams. Mybe then the otherwize angry morotists would think hey I could be home now if I biked.
Of course you are going to piss off the "more equal than you" types-- but they dont like you if your biking and following all of the rules. The "more equal than you" type does not notice you when you are being edged off the road, or doesnt say "hey look there is a good biker that waits at the light and doesn't catch up and pass, I want to do something to encourage biking".
It is like believing that "women drivers are bad" because you ignore the cases where it is a white guy screwing up. Really all my ranting sounds very harsh and I don't mean to direct this at you personally. I just want to urge people to consider that we all have been programed to accept cars as special and all they really are are hunks of steel that burn 100k times the calories that bikes do and are sucking us down with them. I am a bike-man in a car-man's world.
slagjumper
05-23-05, 09:39 PM
the roads themselves were paved so that automobiles could travel more efficiently, and like it or not, cars are what city planners think of when roads are planned. as an avid cyclist, i would like that to change. but i can say with certainty that it will not change so long as city planners think of cyclists as nuisances rather than as legitimate users.
What is your plan for change?
so i agree that we should all stick together - and to me that means not doing things that are contrary to our best interests as a group, eg. critical mass.
So those of you who are cm adherents, rather than flame me, please think about how it would seem to you if motorists started impeding your riding with car doors, parking cars in bike lanes, or intentionally running red lights to mess with you.
If a motorist opened his door on me that would be that person's fault. Entering the street at the duress of others. I think that we all should be treated fairly -- the police should hand out tickets to all who violate the traffic laws.
perhaps worse, think about how it would seem if the voters in your city started clamoring to make cycling illegal.
NYC tried this but it is a state law that protects bikes. NYC has been "clammoring" in one way or another to outlaw bikes for a over hundred years.
brokenrobot
05-23-05, 09:40 PM
they're not doing it just to mess with you. they're doing it because they are angry. and the condition of having no respect for others is commonly associated with believing one is right and the other side is just wrong - not with driving.
Agreed, they're angry people. But I don't think day-to-day drivers abuse cyclists because they're angry at CYCLISTS; I think they abuse us for the same reason they abuse each other: driving is bad for people, psychologically. Lots of interesting studies out there... For example, road rage escalates with vehicle weight, and even more so with vehicle height; the view from up there seems to make people believe they're not only literally but morally above the little people below. Men have always had some level of road rage, but ten or fifteen years ago, it was unheard of for women to gun each other down / run each other down over traffic incidents; now it's a daily occurance - and a big part of the reason (along with factors like increased traffic density) is an increase in average vehicle size.
The difference is that when drivers get pissed off and play chicken with other cars, their victims stand a chance of surviving. We don't. Until the authorities finally start enforcing the laws designed to protect us, I'm a-gonna keep trying to draw attention to the cause.
When I get a chance, I'll dig back through my files and find some of the psych studies re: the psychological impact of traffic; hopefully, some of them are available online. Might be a while, though (like July): most of my files are in another state at the moment.
wdbike.com
05-23-05, 11:07 PM
i've been to too many msg boards over the recent years to get into a flame war over this.
the running theme i've gotten from all of you in favor of cm seems to be indignance and anger, and maybe a little entitlement. hey you ride bikes, you don't pollute, perhaps according to some moral structure you have more of a right to the road than the cars, etc. that's fine, i've been there, and in many ways i agree with you. i've commuted in my share of snowstorms, and i even have some once-frostbitten ears to show for it. honestly - i don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do.
but i've seen how effective alienating the other side is in several different areas of life ... and it's usually not pretty. if you take a real poll, i guarantee you will find the majority of people disapprove of cm's.
my plan for change, as one of you asked me, is to try using some of the time you spend in cm's working for a bicycle advocacy group, making meetings with your representatives about how to get funding for bike lanes, stuff like that. if you don't feel like putting in that kind of time or comittment, how about explaining to people at work what you find rewarding about commuting? it's a small thing, but the more people there are who quit smoking and take up triathlons to lose weight, the more there will be people who understand why you like to ride. sure, it's not as sexy - it seems a bit neutered, working within the system instead of rebelling from without. but water flows downhill, and ultimately that's how landscapes change.
enjoy your critical mass rides, i won't begrudge you them. but try to be honest and admit you do them because you like ****ing with people, if only a little bit. i will be honest right now and tell you that the next time i get a half-drunk big gulp thrown at me out on the road, critical mass rides will be the first thing that comes to my mind.
brokenrobot
05-23-05, 11:49 PM
If I've come off as indignant or angry, I apologize; I'm not. The only entitlement I feel is to that which rightfully belongs to everyone: I'm entitled to fair treatment under the law, and to representation by the representatives I've helped elect. We as cyclists don't get those things right now, and that's not right.
I am convinced that at least in the very special circumstances of New York City, critical mass is a force for good, and that demonstrating our sheer numbers every once in a while serves as a useful reminder to those elected representatives (and to the police) that the individual cyclists whose rights they fail to protect every day are part of a much larger, quite powerful community. Which is not to say that it's effective everywhere else; NYC's a place all its own!
As far as other advocacy goes: I'm all for it, and I'm quite active, both in person and through membership in a number of bike-rights groups, both local and national. But until and unless the city starts enforcing the laws against dooring and parking in bike lanes, clamoring for additional bike lanes is futile at best; it's impossible to use the ones we have now - why should we want any more? Bike lanes are NOT the kind of thing I agitate for - I'm much more interested in seeing law and order prevail over driver (and cyclist) behavior, and in establishing a climate in which cyclists are no longer second-class citizens. There's a time and place for polite - but change requires making oneself heard when appropriate, as well.
Admittedly, a small part of the joy of CM is in messing with drivers. Most of the joy, though, is in being able to ride safely through the streets, getting an hour-long once-monthly vacation from continual danger, and in being with others who understand exactly how powerful and how important that monthly release is.
Two cyclists in Boulder got things thrown at them this very afternoon, by a young gentleman in an SUV. Why do you suppose THAT happened, given that Boulder is without a CM? I guess the driver must have READ about CM occurring someplace else, and decided to take pre-emptive action! ;)
Again: my apologies if anything I've said comes off as a flame; it's certainly not my intention, but this is an issue about which I'm passionate, and passion is sometimes hard to make clear online without coming off as a bit over the top.
AverageCommuter
05-24-05, 01:15 AM
the roads themselves were paved so that automobiles could travel more efficiently, and like it or not, cars are what city planners think of when roads are planned.
I don't know if anyone has touched on this or not, if so forgive the repitition. Paved roads existed, for bicycles, well before cars existed.
While I'll agree that city planners ARE only thinking of cars when the roads are planned. That is not what they are supposed to do. They are supposed to be thinking of the needs of ALL legitimate road users. The fact that they don't doesn't mean they shouldn't be reminded from time to time.
I do my own bike advocacy by commuting to work. I try to actually communicate with drivers. Most of them are nice and give me room. I actually try to "share the road" (goes both ways). I wave them if they want to make a right or left hand turn. I wave as I pass cars in an intersection. By riding as a respectful cyclists who are obeying the rules of the road we are creating a positive view of cyclists. I don't believe that CM can truely bring about lasting change by holding up other "traffic" in order to say that they are "traffic" too. You can't have it both ways. Cars obey the rules...however we are "special" traffic and don't have to obey your rules. I think it is cool for cyclist to ride in groups to provide even more "visibility". I road in our local "Ride of Silence" However we did our best to follow the rules of the road and kept as far right as possible. Yes cars would be slightly slowed down sometimes. However they generally were cool with it. We even had some stop and ask what was going on. Most of them are slowed down by traffic anyway. They just will get peaved if you are taking up the whole lane when you have space to share. I think there is room for CM in cycling advocacy if it were done with a different approach.
my .02
Keep Cycling
I went to one CM here in Madison, and it seems true that the mantra "We aren't blocking traffic, we are traffic" doesn't really hold up.
CMs seem to intentionally go slowly and occupy as many lanes as possible. This wouldn't be necessary if the goal was actually just to raise visibility and awareness of cyclists. They intentionally get in the way, when there is really no reason to, other than creating a confrontation. If they were really "just traffic", they would behave like other traffic, for example slow vehicles keep right, and for example not intentionally slowing down all the other vehicles behind them.
If they did ride like traffic, I would go to more CMs, but as it is, I can't support that cause.
There are multiple reasons for critical mass to operate this way. Critical mass is a place where novice bikers should feel welcome. While it seemed intentionally slow to you, but it may have seemed a normal speed to somebody new at biking on the streets. Experienced bikers can slow down, but novices cannot speed up, and critical mass provides an opportunity for them to gain familiarity with urban biking (so someday they can bike more quickly.) There is also a safety reason for taking multiple lanes. If critical mass stays on the right lane of a multi-lane road, the cars will fly by in the left lane. i've seen many critical masses where angry cars go exceedingly fast to pass the mass, often when they don't have room, and that endangers riders. Lastly, if the light turns red when the group is in the middle of going through a light, it breaks up the mass if the later people stop to wait for the light to change. I doubt critical mass entered an intersection if it had a red light, and if the light turned red while the mass is inside, it makes more sense to stick together. The idea of critical mass is that people are travelling as a unit, so once the unit has entered the intersection, they should finish it, even if the light turns red in the middle.
It may have seemed to you that people in critical mass were intentionally getting in the way only to create a confrontation, but they likely had other reasons.
However, I imagine that confrontation is a reason for CM's riding style. Not that that's a bad thing. Nobody here has really proven that a lot of motorists are ticked off at all cyclists because of CM. Sorry, I just don't see that happening, even though it seems like it could. Most of the time it's good to be polite and friendly, but I don't think that anybody ever gained rights by being polite. CM does a lot to raise the issues and make government (like highway planning boards and city councils) more cognizant of cycling. It may not be my style or your style, but CM is attractive to a lot of young people, and it probably attracts more new young riders than all the EC and VC and separate facilities advocates all put together. And that is definitely good for cycling.
Maybe we all benefit from a two front war. I hope that older, more well-heeled cyclists continue to support the league and show up at city council meetings, etc, and will not always be too polite. At the same time, a little in-their-face confrontration from younger and more energetic riders will probably benefit us all. I hope that they will not become too rude. From each according to his abilities....
I think that this thread has demonstrated what I am saying. For the most part, the posts here have been a respectful but passionate exchange of ideas. I am glad that most cyclists can see some advantages to both approaches, or are at least willing to listen.
dwightonabike
05-24-05, 10:11 AM
but i've seen how effective alienating the other side is in several different areas of life ... and it's usually not pretty. if you take a real poll, i guarantee you will find the majority of people disapprove of cm's.
Protest are generally not popular. How popular were the civil rights marches in the towns where they occured? The point is not to make people appreciate bikers, it is to raise awareness, so that people notice bikers. There are far more car/bike collisions where the car driver "just didn't see" the biker than a driver with a grudge taking out a biker. CMs condition people to notice bikes.
In regard to taking the lane and stopping at lights - a group of bikers strung out in single file along the route, seperated by lights, with car traffic interspersed would still anger impatient car drivers and reduce the saftey of those participating.
recursive
05-24-05, 10:51 AM
In regard to taking the lane and stopping at lights - a group of bikers strung out in single file along the route, seperated by lights, with car traffic interspersed would still anger impatient car drivers and reduce the saftey of those participating.
The difference is that the cyclists aren't being obnoxious for its own sake. An academic difference perhaps, but one that's significant to me. The CM I went on was during the winter and was quite "lightly" attended. It was usually wider than it was long. I can't believe that was for safety purposes. The only reason for that formation is to slow down other road users.
The difference is that the cyclists aren't being obnoxious for its own sake. An academic difference perhaps, but one that's significant to me. The CM I went on was during the winter and was quite "lightly" attended. It was usually wider than it was long. I can't believe that was for safety purposes. The only reason for that formation is to slow down other road users.
I slow down motorists all the time when I ride my bike. So do you. We can't help it. Modern society moves too fast. Those who slow it down serve a valuable function. I choose to slow down. You choose to get ticked off about it.
recursive
05-24-05, 12:08 PM
I slow down motorists all the time when I ride my bike. So do you. We can't help it. Modern society moves too fast. Those who slow it down serve a valuable function. I choose to slow down. You choose to get ticked off about it.
I slow down motorists every time I ride. True. So do motorists. What I don't support is intentionally going out of one's way to slow down others as much as possibe.
I don't choose to get ticked off. I'm not ticked off. I choose not to ride CMs.
emilymildew
05-24-05, 12:49 PM
To me, the point of CM is to celebrate riding bikes. I do not believe that anecdotal evidence is ANY kind of judge of the effectiveness of our celebration, so you won't be getting that from me, wdbike.com.
I will tell you that on every single ride, we've gotten beeps or cheers or some sort of show of support from people on the sidewalk AND people in cars. That's not anecdotal.
mpop: you talk about bike lanes and bike trails. That's great, if that's what you want. That isn't what I want. I don't like bike lanes, and I don't use bike trails. I would like to be able to ride my bike to work and back or to do errands or go out with my friends without fearing for my life. Without someone pulling over and spending ten minutes screaming at me about how I don't belong on the road when I'm not holding him back anyway. So I'm sorry if I am not going to have sympathy for a few annoyed drivers.
If you don't agree with the CM agenda, then don't go. It's as simple as that. If you don't like how the ride goes, then don't participate. Do something else. But leave us alone; we're perfectly aware of what we're doing and I for one am happy with it.
I slow down motorists every time I ride. True. So do motorists. What I don't support is intentionally going out of one's way to slow down others as much as possibe.
I don't choose to get ticked off. I'm not ticked off. I choose not to ride CMs.
Sorry. I didn't mean you choose to get ticked off. I meant motorists. :)
But surely you agree that we cyclists are safer when motorists choose to slow down for us? And maybe if they are not aware of that, we need to make them aware? Just to make the roads safer for us and them? Do you know of a better way to do that than CM? I ask because I'm getting a little too old for their shenannigans.
mpop: you talk about bike lanes and bike trails. That's great, if that's what you want. That isn't what I want. I don't like bike lanes, and I don't use bike trails. I would like to be able to ride my bike to work and back or to do errands or go out with my friends without fearing for my life. Without someone pulling over and spending ten minutes screaming at me about how I don't belong on the road when I'm not holding him back anyway. So I'm sorry if I am not going to have sympathy for a few annoyed drivers.
If you don't agree with the CM agenda, then don't go. It's as simple as that. If you don't like how the ride goes, then don't participate. Do something else. But leave us alone; we're perfectly aware of what we're doing and I for one am happy with it.
I bike in the road too, and I have had people yell at me (people telling me to "get off the road and on the side walk where I belong" I could tell you some of the most hostale things I have expernced, like the guy that ran a red light almost hit me and threated to knock my block off for being in his way), just ignore them, they are idiots and chances of you ever seeing them again is small. And what you do in CM does affect me, if it lowers drivers respect for cyclists then it affects me, since I use my bike to get places since I don't own a car.
and I was not saying bike lanes and trails were the only way, but I suggest that they are a good idea to increase some safty.
recursive
05-24-05, 03:41 PM
Sorry. I didn't mean you choose to get ticked off. I meant motorists. :)
But surely you agree that we cyclists are safer when motorists choose to slow down for us? And maybe if they are not aware of that, we need to make them aware? Just to make the roads safer for us and them? Do you know of a better way to do that than CM? I ask because I'm getting a little too old for their shenannigans.
Well, I'm not convinced the CM makes the roads any safer for anyone. I have always figured it's just for cyclists to blow off some steam. But I guess you could say an equivalently effective way of making the roads safer is to do nothing. If you want to do something more productive, you can get involved with your local organizations to petition local gov't or some equally boring thing. Also, riding well is bike advocacy. So get out and just ride. You don't need hundreds of people. You don't need to block up all the lanes. If 100 people all went out and rode in a neighborhood, while following the laws, without staying in one huge mass, I think it would do a lot more good. And also it would be harder for some over zealous (NYC) jurisdictions to interfere with.
noisebeam
05-24-05, 04:12 PM
There are multiple reasons for critical mass to operate this way. Critical mass is a place where novice bikers should feel welcome. While it seemed intentionally slow to you, but it may have seemed a normal speed to somebody new at biking on the streets. Experienced bikers can slow down, but novices cannot speed up, and critical mass provides an opportunity for them to gain familiarity with urban biking (so someday they can bike more quickly.) There is also a safety reason for taking multiple lanes. If critical mass stays on the right lane of a multi-lane road, the cars will fly by in the left lane. i've seen many critical masses where angry cars go exceedingly fast to pass the mass, often when they don't have room, and that endangers riders. Lastly, if the light turns red when the group is in the middle of going through a light, it breaks up the mass if the later people stop to wait for the light to change. I doubt critical mass entered an intersection if it had a red light, and if the light turned red while the mass is inside, it makes more sense to stick together. The idea of critical mass is that people are travelling as a unit, so once the unit has entered the intersection, they should finish it, even if the light turns red in the middle.
It may have seemed to you that people in critical mass were intentionally getting in the way only to create a confrontation, but they likely had other reasons.
Why is it that begginer thru interemediate fitness cycling clubs can go for rides with 70-100 people and not have any of these issues. In this case the line stretches out quite far with 10mph riders thru 28mph riders. Never any blocking of traffic (unless lane is too narrow to get passed by car) or especially no running red lights. Don't travel as a unit, travel as a long line - gaps will develop in the group to allow for faster vehicles to pass.
As to taking two lanes, that is crazy - you share the road and of course other faster vehicles will pass using other lane. To prevent this otherwise does not teach novices about urban riding, it creates an illusion that teaches the wrong skills.
Al
Why is it that begginer thru interemediate fitness cycling clubs can go for rides with 70-100 people and not have any of these issues. In this case the line stretches out quite far with 10mph riders thru 28mph riders. Never any blocking of traffic (unless lane is too narrow to get passed by car) or especially no running red lights. Don't travel as a unit, travel as a long line - gaps will develop in the group to allow for faster vehicles to pass.
Oh, please! We've had this discussion before; "club" rides are just as bad, if not worse, than Critical Mass when it comes to impeding traffic and disobeying traffic control devices. The "club" riders are just in denial about it...
recursive
05-24-05, 09:36 PM
Oh, please! We've had this discussion before; "club" rides are just as bad, if not worse, than Critical Mass when it comes to impeding traffic and disobeying traffic control devices. The "club" riders are just in denial about it...
That's not consistent with what I've observed.
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