Bicycle Mechanics - Derailers and chains suck for commuting

3 months and 3000km later, and my chain is worn out. Found out you replace chain AND cassette together. I just about blew any fuel money I saved these past months on these blasted replacement drive train parts.

My commute route includes some dusty bits but am I now to clean the chain every week or even several times a week?? Or replace the chain every 1000km? That's basically once a month for me. I think I am going the internal hub way. My Sturmey Archer 3 speed drive train has lasted me all my school years with never even thinking about the chain besides very occasionally dripping some oil on it.

You mean, not replacing a chain sucks for commuting.
Chains are consumables.

Despite I have two high-performace machines, one road, one off-road, I am a fan of hub gears. I only discovered hub gear recently and I am loving it. It is practical, low maintenance and very reliable. I suppose that if you are commuting in a fairly flat area, a single speed will do. Anyhow I do believe that if you replace your chain and cassette for good quality ones they will last longer.

If you lubricate your chain once a week, it will last much longer.

My commute route includes some dusty bits but am I now to clean the chain every week or even several times a week??
It's called routine maintenance. You occasionally need to service and clean things to keep them running properly usually in some sort of scheduled fashion, be it time or mileage based.

Judging by your posts in the other thread you should consider a coaster brake or roller brake as well.

In dustry environemnets, consider a dry lube and replace your chain before it gets too worn. Cycling may be cheap but it is not cost-free.

Consider this: If you use an internal hub, the back sprocket can be expected to last much longer by virtue of it being thicker; wearing slower, the stress on the chain is reduced as well so it would last longer. And when the back sprocket is really worn, well just flip it over. I would expect to see 30,000km instead of a paltry 3,000km.

Contrary to what some of you apparently assume, I did clean my chain a number of times by taking it off, rinsing in kero and immersing in chainsaw bar oil thinned down with petrol so it can penetrate well; following this, I would wipe the outside of the chain as dry as I could get it to reduce dust pickup on the outside. I figure the less dust on the outside, the less will make it inside. The lube is needed inside, that's where all the friction is. The only real friction on the outside happens during derailing.

Apparently I did not clean the chain often enough, or is 3,000km all I can expect? If so, then this system sucks for commuting.

Commuting does seem to wear stuff out quicker than "regular" riding. For me, it's been the combination of riding every day, riding in bad weather, and not really wanting to spend too much tme or effort maintaining a commuter. If the dust you're riding through is abrasive, it'll cause trouble.

You're right that thick chains and cogs on singlespeeds and 3-speeds will last practically forever. Hyperglide cogs are thin and shaped in such a way that they'll grind and skip without too much wear compared to older stuff. Possibly not the best thing for the day-in, day-out demands of commuting.

But thank god Rayin is here to put you in your place. What a helpful young man.

In the "old days" I remember seeing bikes with internal geared hubs and fully enclosed chains.

You don't replace the chain and cassette together unless the chain has been run well beyond its life. Search this forum and/or read http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

Consider this: If you use an internal hub, the back sprocket can be expected to last much longer by virtue of it being thicker; wearing slower, the stress on the chain is reduced as well so it would last longer. And when the back sprocket is really worn, well just flip it over. I would expect to see 30,000km instead of a paltry 3,000km.

Contrary to what some of you apparently assume, I did clean my chain a number of times by taking it off, rinsing in kero and immersing in chainsaw bar oil thinned down with petrol so it can penetrate well; following this, I would wipe the outside of the chain as dry as I could get it to reduce dust pickup on the outside. I figure the less dust on the outside, the less will make it inside. The lube is needed inside, that's where all the friction is. The only real friction on the outside happens during derailing.

Apparently I did not clean the chain often enough, or is 3,000km all I can expect? If so, then this system sucks for commuting.

Most people get much better service life from a chain. Try cleaning and lubricating every 150-200km. Relubricate more often if you ride in rain. If you use an SRAM chain with a PowerLink, removing the chain to clean is simple. If not, then get a chain cleaning machine and use some degreaser with it, rinse, then drip on your bar oil/petrol homebrew. No need to fully immerse the chain in the lube. Just put a drop on each roller, spin the cranks, then wipe down.

You don't replace the chain and cassette together unless the chain has been run well beyond its life. Search this forum and/or read http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html
This is precisely one of the points I am making - I started out by just replacing both my bikes' chains, and in both cases, the chain skips on the 11T cog. On one bike, the 13T cog also skips if I increase the load. When I replaced one bike's cassette, skipping no longer occurred. And another member of this forum also reported exactly the same - he always got skipping on the smallest cog when replacing only the chain. The small cogs ruin the rest of the cassette. I have looked, but it is hardly worth just replacing the small cogs - for that money you are almost up to a whole cassette. I balk at blowing that sort of money every 3,000km (3 months).

I am beginning to think that I will put the old worn chain back on and ride it until it skips or is completely stuffed - and then replace the whole lot. This way I will get more milage while paying the same.

Relubricate more often if you ride in rain.Does riding in rain displace the lubricant inside the chain?

It depends on how dirty it gets and how much you want to clean it. On my road bikes that get the chain cleaned every second or third ride I have 7500 miles on chains with no problems yet. I never take the chain off. I just pedal backwards with the chain running through a rag. I clean the rear derailleur pulleys while spinning and touching with a rag. Once in a while I clean between the cogs with a 1" wide strip of a rag and while spinning I wipe the cog teeth off too. I don't take the wheel off. It takes very little time. I use a dry Teflon lube. It takes about five minutes to clean the chain and re lube it. About another five to clean the rear cogs and chain rings. No reason to take anything off or soak anything.
Even for dust, fenders with a good long front mud flap will keep your chain clean longer. Even more important with mud and rain.
The mountain bike that goes in the snow has about 5000 miles on the chain. And fenders.

The chainsaw oil will pick up a more dust and dirt than a dry Teflon bike chain lube. And grind everything up. That lube is made for things that get very wet. Rinsing with kerosene will wash some of the lube out of the rollers that is in the inside. That will speed up wear too. Don't do it.

If the dust is very fine and it gets very dusty all the time it's going to wear a little quicker than some.

Five minutes every other day or so and ten minutes a week and different lube will help.

Does riding in rain displace the lubricant inside the chain?
I think riding in the rain kicks up more dirty water and mud, so it gets the chain dirtier. I don't think the rain actually messes up the lubricant. One thing is that a wet chain rusts VERY quickly. I have left a wet chain sitting for a couple nights and there was a slight crunchiness from rust a couple days later (though it wiped off with a rag).

I would definitely not use that chainsaw oil as a chain lube. What I do on my commuter bike is take off the chain, put it in an empty plastic bottle 1/4 full with Simple Green, and shake the hell out of it. Then I wipe down the cogs with a rag while it's soaking. Then I take the chain out and rinse it, wipe it dry with a rag, and replace. (I do this maybe every 2 weeks.)

I used to use a light motor oil to lube my chain, but it's just not a good idea, picks up far too much dirt. The bicycle specific lubricants are far better. I don't like the spray kind, only the drip kind. I usually put barely any lubricant at all on the chain, only a couple drops. If it's noisy I'll add more later. Having a clean, dry chain is better than a dirty, lubricated chain.

And lastly, measure your chain with a ruler when you clean it. If 12 links are longer than 12-1/16", get a new one. Your cassette wears to match your chain, so there's basically no way the cassette can ever wear out if the chain never wears out.

Your cassette wears to match your chain, so there's basically no way the cassette can ever wear out if the chain never wears out.This strikes home with me. I'm willing to blow $10 on a cheap chain every month to save the cassette.

This strikes home with me. I'm willing to blow $10 on a cheap chain every month to save the cassette.Yeah, it's a good idea. I'd emphasize that the important thing is NOT how long you've used it, but how much it's elongated. There's really no significant mechanism for the cassette to wear out other than due to an elongated chain.

But if you manage to wear a well-maintained chain out in 1 month of commuting, then gosh you must ride in some really dirty conditions, or have a very long commute. My hat's off to you :)

This is precisely one of the points I am making - I started out by just replacing both my bikes' chains, and in both cases, the chain skips on the 11T cog. On one bike, the 13T cog also skips if I increase the load. When I replaced one bike's cassette, skipping no longer occurred. And another member of this forum also reported exactly the same - he always got skipping on the smallest cog when replacing only the chain. The small cogs ruin the rest of the cassette. I have looked, but it is hardly worth just replacing the small cogs - for that money you are almost up to a whole cassette. I balk at blowing that sort of money every 3,000km (3 months).

Is there any possibility that your rear derailer is improperly adjusted, misaligned, or bent? 3 mo/3000k seems awfully fast to wear out a chain and a cassette. Unless you've just been doing absolutely zero maintenance or possibly purposely throwing dirt and crud into the works and not cleaning or lubing the chain :)

But thank god Rayin is here to put you in your place. What a helpful young man.
If you read his other posts you might understand better