Towing a trailer on a tandem

[mirla]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I was hoping to rent a tandem bike in Chicago, and tow my little one in a trailer (either ours or rented). However, when I asked for confirmation that this was possible, I was told that "Our wagons can only be attached to single bikes. It will not work with a tandem." Any idea why this would not work?

The Tandem is supposed to be a KHS Tmania Sport. The rented wagon would be a Trek Transit. We could also bring our Burley Bee if it makes a difference.

I don't see anything weird about the back of the tandem in the picture that would preclude attaching a trailer. Do they just not want us to do this, or is it really impossible?

Thanks!

[Gus Riley]

We tow a BOB with our tandem with no problems. Looking at the way the Burley trailers attach at a LBS today, I honestly see no problem towing a child trailer with a tandem. I know I have seen one being towed by a Quad before (from the east coast to Alaska), so it is most like mechanically doable with a tandem. Sounds like the rental place has a policy preventing towing with their tandems.

[zonatandem]

At tandem rallies have literally seen over a hundred tandems hauling kid trailers.
Even saw a tandem hauling an Adams tandem trail-a-bike with a Burley trailer attached to the trail-a-bike tandem! Do-able, but had to be careful on the corners!
The LBS is full-a-beans!

[Gus Riley]

At tandem rallies have literally seen over a hundred tandems hauling kid trailers.
Even saw a tandem hauling an Adams tandem trail-a-bike with a Burley trailer attached to the trail-a-bike tandem! Do-able, but had to be careful on the corners!
The LBS is full-a-beans!

This is encouraging information! We are exploring the feasibility of towing a Burley Nomad behind a Burley Piccolo, attached to our tandem.

The "destruction manual" says not to do so, because the rack is not designed for any more weight than 85 lbs. Talking with a LBS manager in Springfield, he thought it was possible "If, I could redesign the mount hardware from the rack to the tandem." I am thinking in the same direction.

The next question is whether or not this combination can take the strain of the TransAm route.

[Dr. Moto]

I own a Trek Transit. The Transit attaches to the left chainstay with a quick-release clamp. As long as the chainstay is not too thick or thin, and there is enough clearance between the stay and the spokes for the quick release bolt, you should be fine on any kind of bike.

[zonatandem]

With the Mooserack to attach the Piccolo to the tandem you have one of the sturdiest
'hitches' available. Also with the Mooserack the Piccolo will track 100%; as with other types of attachments (like to the chainstay) there is a possibility of the trail-a-bike clipping a curb if you get a bit too close. As for a transcontinental trip . . . I opine it is possible to do it. However, such a l-o-n-g choo-choo train could be a bit tough to handle in city traffic vis-a-vis the open road.

[Retro Grouch]

There are some other issues: If the tandem has a hub brake or a rear disc brake, trailers that attach to the chainstay might not work.

[bentbaggerlen]

On a rail trail outside boston we passed a tandme, pulling a tandem trail a bike, pulling a trailer.. Sure its doable but I would really watch the down hills. As far as pulling a trailer, we do it quite often. No problems at all. We use a Cycle-Tote trailer equiped with brakes and have no problems towing as much as 150 lbs.

[Gus Riley]

There are some other issues: If the tandem has a hub brake or a rear disc brake, trailers that attach to the chainstay might not work.

Not meaning to hijack this thread, but this is an excellent point. One which we plan to convert to prior to our TransAm trip. We hope to install a drum brake and a disk system on the back...I have no idea if the two are compatable. I do know a disk brake setup alone is not enough for the load we will be pulling, and neither is our XTR (friction) type brakes, so a drum will be part of our setup for sure (the Piccolo won't have any impact on it).

Another thing we are considering is installing a brake on the piccolo...this would help us slowly desend down some of the longer/steeper hills. We'd have to make sure the child doesn't ride them.

[phinney]

I think a rear disk and a rear drum are mutually exclusive (I'm no expert). Common wisdom seems to be that a drum is better for long descents than a disk. Not sure why this is, certainly my experience with motorcycles is just the opposite - but that doesn't necessarily mean anything for bicycles. I've never had any bicycle brake fade significantly on a descent, nor a tire blow off a rim.

A disk and a rim brake could probably be combined on the front along with a hub and rim brake on the back. That has got to be tremendous overkill though. How about just rim brakes and stop every so often to take in the view and let the brakes cool? Maybe tow a log on the way down?

Sorry, I'm just jealous that my plans to get to the mountains this year aren't working out.

[Michel Gagnon]

We are exploring the feasibility of towing a Burley Nomad behind a Burley Piccolo, attached to our tandem.

The "destruction manual" says not to do so, because the rack is not designed for any more weight than 85 lbs. Talking with a LBS manager in Springfield, he thought it was possible "If, I could redesign the mount hardware from the rack to the tandem." I am thinking in the same direction.

The next question is whether or not this combination can take the strain of the TransAm route.

The 85-lb weight on the Piccolo relates to the weight borne on the hitch and carried by the rack. When you add a trailer behind the Piccolo, you don't increase the weight carried by the rack, so there won't be any problem.

In other words, the only problems you will have in your transcontinental route is with your legs... And for the long hills you might encounter, it would be wise to get a drum brake.

BTW, for two years, I have used my single touring bike to tow a Piccolo which, in turn, towed a child trailer. I used that combination for lots and lots of day rides in not-so-gentle terrain, for a total of 4000-5000 km, and I never had any problem, except for a flat. Both the bicycle and the Piccolo have fenders and mudflaps to remain clean.

I have also toured in mountains with the loaded single bike + trailercycle. At that time, my daughter weighed 45 lb, and I had another 40-45 lb of gear in the rear panniers.

[DCCommuter]

I've also pulled a Piccolo and a trailer with a single bike, as welll as a trail-a-bike tandem and a trailer.

Burley has two weight limits for the Piccolo -- 85 lbs, and half the weight of the rider of the tractor bike. Based on my experience, I believe these limits are driven more by handling than by concern that the hitch or trailer bike will fall to pieces. In general, the trailer makes the trailer-bike more stable. It lowers the center of gravity and provides a drag that makes the rig want to go straight. The thing you have to watch out for is braking. As long as you are pulling the load and it's not pushing you you'll be fine. Any vehicle pulling a trailer without brakes that weighs a significant fraction of the weight of the vehicle has to worry about jackknifing; some states now require trailer brakes on automobile trailers weighing as little as 1,000 lbs.

Jackknifing a bicycle is very scary because the tractor bike tends to pivot about the fork. It's happened to me once, I wasn't going that fast and I had a trailer with about 50 lbs. I was going down a not-very-steep hill with the brakes on, and the rear wheel lost traction and the bike swung one way and the trailer the other, with the front wheel still pointing forward. I managed to straighten out by releasing the brakes, which fortunately was an option. (My wife thought I was goofing around and yelled at me.)

I would opine that a trailer is safer behind a tandem than a single bike because there is so much more weight on a tandem being carried on wheels with brakes, so the risk of jackknifing is reduced.

[zonatandem]

Another option on your trans-trip is to not use a trailer, but panniers (could go with panniers front and rear on tandem + put a rack on Piccolo for panniers/trunkpack.
Definitely would suggest a drum for longer descents with load like you'll be hauling.
Just a-thinking out loud . . .

[Michel Gagnon]

...Jackknifing a bicycle is very scary because the tractor bike tends to pivot about the fork. It's happened to me once, I wasn't going that fast and I had a trailer with about 50 lbs. I was going down a not-very-steep hill with the brakes on, and the rear wheel lost traction and the bike swung one way and the trailer the other, with the front wheel still pointing forward. ...

It sounds counter-intuitive, but to avoid jackknifing, don't use the rear brake.

When you brake, your weight is transferred to the front, and the harder you brake, the less weight there is on the rear wheel. It is therefore very easy to have it skid, and when it skids, it might as well move sideways.

[Gus Riley]

Another option on your trans-trip is to not use a trailer, but panniers (could go with panniers front and rear on tandem + put a rack on Piccolo for panniers/trunkpack.
Definitely would suggest a drum for longer descents with load like you'll be hauling.
Just a-thinking out loud . . .


Good points concerning panniers, however, I'm not sure panniers will work on the Piccolo rack (where the Piccolo mounts to the tandem.) Which would leave only front panniers. I'm relatively sure that panniers will not work on the piccolo itself, I do not think there would be room for the pedals and feet to operate properly.

[zonatandem]

A seatpost rack on the Piccolo could utilize a trunk pack. A handlebar bag could be another possibility on the tandem and/or the Piccolo.
There are also triangle pack bags that can fit in the triangle portion of the tandem frame that would afford a bit more stowage space, but may take up room for water bottle cages. If you use a camelback system that would alleviate that problem.
Again . . . thinking out loud.

[Michel Gagnon]

Panniers definitely work on the Piccolo rack. After all, that's a really hefty rack. The only thing that doesn't work on that rack is stuff on top of the rack. And even then, there is enough room in front of the Piccolo attachment to place my tent transversally.

As for the Piccolo, it is very easy to install a standard rack (the kind made for 700c or 26" wheels). Because you don't want the Piccolo to sway, keep the load light. In our case, I put 2 sleeping bags in panniers and mattresses on top of the rear rack of the Piccolo. Bulky, but light.

[Gus Riley]

Panniers definitely work on the Piccolo rack. After all, that's a really hefty rack. The only thing that doesn't work on that rack is stuff on top of the rack. And even then, there is enough room in front of the Piccolo attachment to place my tent transversally.

As for the Piccolo, it is very easy to install a standard rack (the kind made for 700c or 26" wheels). Because you don't want the Piccolo to sway, keep the load light. In our case, I put 2 sleeping bags in panniers and mattresses on top of the rear rack of the Piccolo. Bulky, but light.


This is all good news to us! Thanks!

[Michel Gagnon]

As with any new configuration, do a few shake up rides to see how best to distribute the load. Two years ago, when I toured, it was an 11-day loaded touring, including camping, some gravel roads, lots of hills, I started with load distributed like this:
(front wheel, rear wheel, trailercycle whee): 55 lb - 70 lb - 28 lb

It was very stable, but on gravel, the front wheel couldn't be steered! I changed it to roughly 45 lb - 80 lb - 28 lb, and it worked fine.

BTW, those weights are what I got when I wheeled each wheel of the fully loaded bike, including water and food, on a bathroom scale. Riders (170 and 45 lb) were not weighed.

[myrcurial]

BTW, for two years, I have used my single touring bike to tow a Piccolo which, in turn, towed a child trailer. I used that combination for lots and lots of day rides in not-so-gentle terrain, for a total of 4000-5000 km, and I never had any problem, except for a flat. Both the bicycle and the Piccolo have fenders and mudflaps to remain clean.

Like Michel, I've been using the long-train as well, both with the tandem and the single. We've got a standard single speed non folding Adams trail-a-bike (with the seat post hitch) and a Norco Axiom trailer that uses the left chainstay mount. The usual set up is to actually attach the trailer to the seatstay of the Adams just to get a little closer to level on the tow-bar. In the trailer is my 18 month old boy (about 35 pounds of kid+toys), the trailerbike has my 3.5 year old daughter and her waterbottle and mascot (about 40 pounds), and either the tandem with my wife and I (not a light team) or my touring bike, either of which have anything from 2 to 4 panniers just for picnics and clothing. What I've noticed is that the trailerbike doesn't bounce around as much when the trailer drag is present. Before the next long tour, I'm planning on adding a brake to the trailerbike with a long cable forward to the stoker position / only position just to add some extra brake power to the whole thing. I don't think there is any way to retrofit brakes onto the trailer (without resorting to an anchor). We've not had any problems other than Dad's legs giving ou before kids legs do.

[bcspain]

I've posted this pic before, but here goes.

The tandem is a Kent, the trailer is a Trek. We've hauled it all over, no problems.

[DCCommuter]

Before the next long tour, I'm planning on adding a brake to the trailerbike with a long cable forward to the stoker position / only position just to add some extra brake power to the whole thing.

I've been considering the same thing, especially for the tandem trail-a-bike. I think I would get the best braking using the front wheel on the tractor bike and the rear wheel on the trailer bike. The trailer bike frame has a hole that looks like it would take a caliper style brake. The only question is how to run the cable for quick release from the tractor bike. I'm thinking maybe an "in-line" style brake lever, as they usually have a two-piece mounting bracket that you can put on and take off without having to disassemble anything else.

[slagjumper]

A few comments.

1) On my bike my drum brake will interfere with trailers that connect to the left stay.
2) I have seen disc brakes get red hot on long decents. Issue is this can melt your panniers.

3) I swa a trailers in the $400 range that had brakes to prevent jack-knifing.

[kw0712]

I have an Apollo Elite Tandem and tow a tag a long in Sydney. There is myself (40yo male) and my two sons (9 and 6yo) on the strange looking contraption. It works very well, a little hard on the hills but I think the 6yo is along for a free ride. It is very stable and alot of fun.