Knee Hurts!

[flow2east]

I need your help.

I have significant knee pain (behind my upper part of the knee cap) after riding about 15 miles.

Does anyone know what might be the cause and how to fix it?

Thx

Ouch.

[Richard D]

First off if it's at all severe or lasts when you get off the bike - go and see a Doctor, preferably one who rides.

Possible causes - pedalling in too high a gear or bike set up.

[oxologic]

People say that if it is the back part of your knee that hurts, you have to lower your seatpost. Also, I think it would be advisable to start spinning at lower gears, thus allowing your knees to recover for some time.

[oceanrider]

Your knee should nearly straighten but not lock on the down pedal. There should be a slight bend. It may or may not be bike related.

[jmlee]

Since this is a question of a painful situation, let's be precise here:

The rule goes: pain in the front of the knee means saddle is possibly too low. Pain in the back of the knee means the saddle is possibly too high.

You talk about pain behind the knee-cap, which I would understand as still in front of the knee, i.e. under the knee-cap, which is a common site for cycling-related knee pain. (I raise the point only because Oxologic seems to understand it as behind the knee). I have experienced pain "behind the knee", i.e. on the back side of the leg. Lowering my saddle did help.

But, you should also assess the front-back position of the saddle, as well as, your gearing and cadence. Pushing a high gear at a low cadence (below 60 rpms) is a common source of "front of knee" problems. This is often reported as pain "under the knee-cap".

As stated above, if it *really* hurts, see a doctor.

Best of luck,
Jamie

[Pat]

Originally posted by flow2east
I need your help.

I have significant knee pain (behind my upper part of the knee cap) after riding about 15 miles.

Does anyone know what might be the cause and how to fix it?

Thx

Ouch.

You should do 2 things.

First, have your bike fit checked by a good Local bike shop. You may have the seat too low or your position over the pedals is wrong or your seat may be tilted wrong.

Secondly, check your cadence. When you ride, you should not feel stress in your joints (like your knees). Your cadence should be high enough that you feel as if you are spinning the pedals against very little resistance. You should try to hit at least 80 rpm and 90 is better. If you feel as if you are pushing the pedals, you may well be in too high of a gear. You may want to ride with an experienced cyclist to see if your RPM is adequate.

Another thing is people often push up their trailing leg (upstroke) with their power stroke (down stroke). The way to know when you are not doing this is to make an effort to lift up your leg on the upstroke. The upstroke generates little if any power, but if done properly, you will not rob yourself of power. Plus, if you are pushing your leg up, you could well be putting a considerable strain on the knees. The way I tell when I am doing this is when I feel a slight loss of pressure on the pedals on the upstroke.

I believe that something like 99.9% of the knee pain problems on bikes can be solved by proper fit and proper pedalling technique.

[flow2east]

WoW, I am truly amazed at the response I am receiving. It's a blessing to have so many folks willing to help out a stranger. Thx all.

I was hoping that I can ride through the pain and eventually when I got in shape that it would go away.

This is what happened to my runner’s knee. When I started running, I had pain outside of the knees. After a 5 mile run, it would hurt for couple of days. I training for about a year and the pain disappeared.

I am hoping for the same. Is this a bad idea?

As to my bike setup. I read quite a bit about setting up a bike properly and I think I did everything correctly. My knee is just slightly bent when fully extended and the seat is at the proper location (my knee is lined up with the ball of my feet at the mid point of the rotation).

Also the pain is only on my left knee - right is fine.

Thanks again everyone.

[lotek]

hoping that I can ride through the pain
I don't think this is a good idea. Knee pain from incorrect
setup won't get better, it will only cause permanent
damage to your knee.
Saddle adjustment is a fine tuning excersize, 1mm here
1 mm there.
Read this thread specifically the Plumb bob technique
(thanks Velocipedio and Pat5319) for saddle adjustment
Plumb bob (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10642&highlight=knee+pain)
the pain is only on my left knee - right is fine
This may be a result of your left leg and right leg not being
the same size. I'd suggest find a position that is comfortable
for both, although this might be a compromise position.
Best bet, is go get professionally fitted.

Marty

[Maelstrom]

It could also be caused by a muscular imbalance. You may want to look at your leg strength in sections. Are your quads (front of leg) strong than your hams, are your hams stronger than quads. A decent ratio for non-injury is a one to one strength. You will normally find very explosive athletes to have a 1:1.5 ratio (quad to ham). On average or in the average athlete it is usually 1:0.75 or worse. This is when injuries occur most often. Your hams being equal or strong is usually better.

[jetski]

I feel your pain. I too am having knee problems (feels like the pain goes right under my knee cap). I posted previously about it and recieved some exellent ideas, including the plum bob adjustment. I thought about just trying to ride through the pain, but decided that I enjoy this sport too much to take that chance. I have made an appointment with an ortho surg. that rides a road bike all over the world (a guy my mother in law works for luckily enough). Hopefully he will tell me that I can keep riding without tearing my knee up, but I want him to tell me that. In the mean time, I'm taking several peoples suggestions to take my bike to the LBS to let them fit me on my bike. 1 or 2 mm adjustments are easy to get wrong I would think, and would prefer to leave this up to the professionals.

[orguasch]

your leg should have aslight bend when the pedal is at its lowest point, and if your using a clipless pedal the shoes, should be slightly toed-in, the pointed toes should slight be going towards the frame,

[flow2east]

I understand about the toes slightly pointing in and also about keeping the knees in when pedaling. However, I have bowed legs and keeping my toes pointing in is an effort. My natural tendency is pointing them out.

I am using Look 296 pedals which has some flote and my feet to move around.

I am wondering if my bowed legs have anything to with my knee pain. If it is, what might a fix the problem besides going to surgery and having them broken and setting thme straight. :)

Thx

[orguasch]

other than the above suggestion I can't think of any, and come to thinks of it, I am slightly bow legged myself, and if I seat on the saddle not my usual seating position, I get the pain on my inner knee cap, but when i seat properly on the saddle it goes away, maybe try adjusting you seating position, it may help, there's no harm in trying so that when you go out and ride your bike its a pleasue and not a torture.:beer: :beer:

[RiPHRaPH]

the look pedals and platforms can also be adjusted (forward or back) and your seat can be adjusted backwards or forwards to simulate different leg distances. i am just illustrating that it can be one of several things, but the responses you have gotten about saddle height are GENERALLY correct and very good.

when you adjust anything on your bike do it in little tiny increments. a mm to a cm here or there can make a big difference. the more i talk to people the more i hear about people tweeking their set-up little by little to get that perfect set-up.

remember: biking should not hurt (your joints, etc)- don't let it go. when i started out i had the same problems and didn't have this forum to bounce things off of people and suffered for many months.

[flow2east]

It's getting better. I just did my longest ride ever - 40 miles. I averaged 15.8mph on the way out and 16.8mph on the way back.

I felt little something between mile 6-12 but it went away. I think I'm OK.

BTW: I only ride about twice per month. Two kids, job, wife, church. you know how it is.

[gmitchell]

Given your speed, distance, and amount your ride, your pain may just be caused by too much, too soon. I suggest some weight work in between riding if you have the equipment available somewhere. Go easy at the beginning! :D I also recommend lots of stretching. This has helped my knee pain as well.

[flow2east]

I fully agree with you. Too much too fast. It's that male ego thing.

Let me give an example: Golf - We know that we should let the club do all the work but some times you just want to crush the ball adn end up hiting it 10 feet.

Only if I had more time to ride.....

Life is a balance.