Recreational & Family - Father teaches kid to ride without a helmet

Well maybe you have a point and aren't quite aware of it... seems like the more safety we wrap around, the less careful folks become. That traffic problem is probably more outta the isolation the drivers feel in their cushy comfort interiors while being held securely by their seat belts while surrounded by all kinds of air bags. Roll down a few windows, put metal back into the dash board, and remove some of those restraint systems and watch the motorists slow down.

WTF do I care if a cyclist falls down and goes boom (my phrase for the day it seems) if I pass him a bit too close, I don't want to cross the line or, Lord forbid, slow down. Besides, he's got a helmet on, he won't get hurt. :rolleyes:

From what i read, there's been a decline in motor vehicle fatalities over the past few years - for what reasons i don't know. But whether the metal-dashed, airbagless years were any safer in proportion to the fewer vehicles on the road, i don't know. We can't ask James Dean or Albert Camus, but there may be some stats out there.

From what i read, there's been a decline in motor vehicle fatalities over the past few years - for what reasons i don't know. But whether the metal-dashed, airbagless years were any safer in proportion to the fewer vehicles on the road, i don't know. We can't ask James Dean or Albert Camus, but there may be some stats out there.

I know the actual fatalities have gone down, so that guarantees that the death rate has dropped since we know the number of vehicles (and drivers) has gone up. If you like statistics, knock yourself out (they collect bike numbers too):

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/departments/nrd-30/ncsa/

I took my kiddo in for his 6 year-old medical check up here recently. The check up package that we got to fill out ahead of time from his pediatrician actually included a written agreement that I had to sign saying that I would provide him with a helmet if he were doing anything that involved wheels. During our visit I ask her what would she do if a parent didn't want to sign it. She said that she would refuse to treat their child. Then she reached into her drawer and pulled out a how-to-buy-a-helmet spec sheet that included some nice discount coupons good at just about any of the local bike shops and discount stores. Pretty cool!

I love that!

I've always insisted my kids wear helmets. No helmet -- no bikeride. I know, when i was young, (shortly after the dinosaurs perished) no one had ever seen a bike helmet -- maybe a few 'hairnets' among European racers. But then, when I was young, no one seemed to see smoking, obesity, or no-seat-belts as life-threatening. As we grow older, hopefully, we get a little smarter. I actually did crash, coming down a bike path (flat terrain). I was wearing a bike helmet. I got off with a cracked collar bone. The bike helmet didn't make it -- large crack on the side.

As a kid, the first person I knew who died was killed when he fell off a bicycle. So I started wearing an open face motorcycle helmet when BMXing around. (they were mandatory for BMX racing) I was an innovator (not an imitator!) and got much greef for doing so. But he who laughs last, has lived through it!

And now that they make helmets for kids, the rule is;

NO HELMET, NO RIDE! Words to LIVE by!

included a written agreement that I had to sign saying that I would provide him with a helmet if he were doing anything that involved wheels. !

I imagine that pediatrician won't have many patients, not treating kids that don't wear helmets in cars.

Fair enough. I guess I forgot that's what this thread was about and got sucked into the 'great crazy helmet debate.'

Also, I agree that "me and my friends are ok and never wore helmets" is a pretty lame argument.

If you dont like helmets, or dont like pro-helmet folks, and are really looking for a way to justify it, find yourself some statistics.

I have never been in a car wreck, and dont plan on being in one, but I still wear my seatbelt in case of an accident. The chance of a head injury or death from a head injury may be small on a bike, but unless you're out to proove something ("i'm cooler/more rebellious/more dangerous than you" or whatever), get yourself a cheapo styrofoam hat and wear it when you ride your bike. Or if you dont like the cheapo styrofoamness of cycling helmets, get yourself a motorcycle helmet or a football helmet or something. :)

Be safe, be happy, dont die. ;)

Seat belt? Why aren't you wearing a helmet in your car? Why aren't there laws requiring everyone in a motor vehicle to wear one? You wants stats? Check out the helmet threads in Advocacy and Safety. You'll find plenty of stats. 34% of the traumatic head injuries in the U.S. are from motor vehicle accidents.

That is fantastic.

Hope the doctor also stops treating any kids that their parents will not sign a contract agreeing to put the kids on a vegetarian diet and prohibiting deserts. Maybe she could also mandate putting SPF 95 sunscreen on the kids every morning, even rainy days just in case the sun comes out later. How about a contract that parents only buy Volvos since they are the safest cars. How about a contract that requires each parent to put a $1,000 water filter system in their homes. And certainly the doctor would like to see the kids toes protected, so parents you need to sign a contact that your kids will only wear steel toed boots and never be allowed to go outside the house barefoot. We all know that mosquitoes carry disease, so each kid should be covered in netting to protect them each time they go outside.
What's sad is that people obviously unfit for parenthood are pumping out babies right and left, so more educated people feel like they need to step up to the plate and do something about it. I'm big on Darwinism, if someone wants to do something that can get themself killed, I'm all for it. But a parent endangering their child is wrong, as the child not only doesn't know better, but thinks everything their parent does is perfect. By they way, I don't have as much of a problem with the lack of a helmet as I do with the girl riding all over the busy street. I live in LA and dodging stupid children and even adults who walk aimlessly through streets and parking lots with their eyes on the ground and blocking all traffic is a daily habit. Stupid and careless people bug me, sorry if that offends anyone.

What's sad is that people obviously unfit for parenthood are pumping out babies right and left, so more educated people feel like they need to step up to the plate and do something about it. I'm big on Darwinism, if someone wants to do something that can get themself killed, I'm all for it. But a parent endangering their child is wrong, as the child not only doesn't know better, but thinks everything their parent does is perfect. By they way, I don't have as much of a problem with the lack of a helmet as I do with the girl riding all over the busy street. I live in LA and dodging stupid children and even adults who walk aimlessly through streets and parking lots with their eyes on the ground and blocking all traffic is a daily habit. Stupid and careless people bug me, sorry if that offends anyone.
Well, it didn't offend me. I agree 100%. I get annoyed by parents who are too stupid to keep their kids safe. These idiotic arguments about how people survived without helmets, or that we should put babies in strollers into helmets, are just small-minded people doing what they do best. You never hear of anyone being *worse off* after crashing with a helmet on, do you?

In all the years of cycling and skateboarding I can say that the bike helmets I've owned have been used zero times, despite some horrific encounters messin' (sans helmet) I'm still here (yay). My skate helmet did take a couple bonks on the back from coming in on the vert fakie and blowing it. My kids always ride with a hemet despite my growing up without one. I sometimes go for spins without my lid but when I'm going to be playing in traffic I wear mine. It's rare I don't wear mine.

Of course teens aren't going to want to wear one(dork factor). Watch a bunch of kids sessioning somewhere though and you will see lids. Kids, well it's the parents that drive that bus obviously. Ithink the way the laws are requiring kid lids is cool because it causes a grandfathering effect, in a few more generations it'l be a moot point. Look at the benches of the NHL, you actually see visors now. Who'da thunk it?

Well, it didn't offend me. I agree 100%. I get annoyed by parents who are too stupid to keep their kids safe.

Ok, now take it a step further. How about not letting your kids ride bikes at all, helmet or not? Better yet, why allow them to leave the house? They could trip and fall, or get abducted, or be hit by a stray bullet. Or, get how about getting mad at parents who buy two story houses, as stair falls cause thousands of injuries and even death each year.

As stupid as you think one parent is for letting their kid ride without a helmet, there is a parent out there who thinks you are a idiot for letting them ride a bike at all. Or, they think you are an idiot for driving them in a car rather than the center seat of a modern minivan with 10+ airbags.

Safety is great, but take it too far and pretty soon you won't leave the bed for fear of slipping in the shower.

I wish this thread would die.....

http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/8607/bulletholeglass4tu.jpg
like so?

i learned to ride with no helmet, wasnt even heard of when i learned. Same here. Been in TONS of accidents as a kid, trying to do crazy things. Never hit my head. Don't want to cause a flame war, but helmets are overrated. If you are a kid, doing your wobbly 3 miles per hour on a tiny bike, how hard can you hit your head anyway?? You're more likely to get a concussion just playing soccer (my brother did) or even running!

However, I must mention I learned to ride on dirt roads (dirt doesn't hurt nearly as much asphalt when you hit it!) that have almost zero traffic (and whatever traffic occasionally does come by is literally crawling). I would be far more concerned about the girl's learning to ride in the middle of a fast road, than her not wearing a helmet...

If you dont like helmets, or dont like pro-helmet folks, and are really looking for a way to justify it, find yourself some statistics.

Huh? Why should WE do it? It is the pro-helmet folks who make a claim that wearing helmets saves lives. The onus is on them to prove it.

You never hear of anyone being *worse off* after crashing with a helmet on, do you?

This is just ridiculous. How do you KNOW they wouldn't've been better, had they crashed without a helmet??

There is a suggestion that helmets, by essentially making your head a little heavier and much bigger in size, may CONTRIBUTE to rotational injuries to your brain which, actually, are the most dangerous ones. You are also just plain more likely to hit your head when wearing a helmet, because it has such a large diameter. I saw a bike rider go over the handlebars once and do an absolutely spectacular sommersault. His head didn't even touch the ground and he got away without any injuries at all! Now, had he been wearing a helmet, it would probably have touched the ground and he might've injured his head or neck...

Anyway, this IS turning into another helmet flamewar... I've seen enough of those and participated in plenty myself. Better run away from this thread before getting sucked into another one. Whoever does choose to engage in this, have fun! :)

My mom never got me a helmet either. That was back in 1993 or 94.

Sure it is. She tells them to get their vaccinations, what to feed them when they're throwing up, what medicines to give them, on and on. It's not "dictating" but it's advice on how to keep the kid healthy. If you don't like it, you take your kid somewhere else, which is what you'd do. I have heard of parents who fear vaccinations and refuse them for their kids, and there are doctors who will refuse to take patients who do that too. Same situation.

No, it isn't. The doctor DOES NOT dictate to you what vaccinations your child gets. You can always tell a doctor that you don't want your child to have a vaccination - the doctor will try to talk you out of it, but you can do it.

SCHOOLS on the other hand can (and do) refuse to allow your child to enroll without the proper vaccinations, but you can always choose to home-school. I wouldn't recommend it though.

Most people who buy helmets don't have the foggiest idea how they should fit...for instance, if you wear one too big there is usually some air space between the head and the helmet liner...this is bad because in an accident your head could still fracture from the impact of the inside of the helmet. S-M-L helmets don't fit properly. Only a few brands go by actual head size...Bell helmets are one...

Okay so no bike helmet on a 6 yo is bad. But this reminds me of my neighbor about ten houses down. He routinely rides his riding mower with his 6ish yo on his lap. Yup, every weekend, there he is with the little kid on his lap. Now if that isnt' a disaster waiting to happen I don't know what is.

Everyone is focusing on the helmet. I'd like to comment on the other issue in this thread: having observed a parent rearing his/her child at a level of safety that is less stringent than yours, should you say something or mind your own business?

I vote for minding your own business. I am pretty certain that helmets were not in when I taught my son how to ride. Four years later, they were in when I taught my daughter - and I bought her one and she wore it.

As soon as they were both capable (according to my judgment), we were out (TOGETHER) riding the neighborhood streets. I taught them the rules of the road. When I thought they were ready, we graduated to slightly busier streets, and, before long, we were riding on all sorts of streets together (that’s TOGETHER - as in Daddy is with them, watching them, protecting them, parenting them).

I cannot tell you how many busy bodies stopped their cars right in the middle of the road to make wise cracks about how, if I loved those dear children, I wouldn't expose them to this danger and that. The memory of those do-gooders insulting me in front of my children still peeves me to this day.

Generally, I would respond with a "you raise yours, I'll raise mine, thanks" or "I know where my kids are, where are yours."

For me, the bottom line is that each parent has to take charge of raising his/her own child. That includes determining what activities they will be exposed to and when and how much protection and protective gear they need to be wearing.

The experience I shared with my kids was priceless to them and to me. We developed a bond during those rides that lasts to this day - but, if I allowed them their way, the do-gooders would have had me banned from the roads.

More often than I can count, I've watched young kids fall or pinch their fingers - accidents that seem predictable to me but not to the parents. As much as I would like to step in and prevent those accidents, it is not my place.

To the OP, you did the right thing by keeping quiet. That dad may be a little on the loose side according to your safety standards, but, at least he is out there working with his daughter. My guess is that they will both do just fine.

Caruso

......

Having observed a parent rearing his/her child at a level of safety that is less stringent than yours, should you say something or mind your own business?

I vote for minding your own business.

......

Caruso

Here, here.

Some dads do wierd things. I was doing a lot of divorce work when the local GM plant shut down. When their UAW bennies ran out the divorces came out of the woodwork. I ran into dads who were afraid of their kids growing up smarter than they were. They would quietly subvert their kids education by saying things like; forget that book report, lets go to the baseball game. Of course, the kid would go along. The rationale was, a job at the factory is good enough for me, it's good eonugh for you too. Hey dad, the factory just shut down! Almost unbelieveable. bk

No, it isn't. The doctor DOES NOT dictate to you what vaccinations your child gets. You can always tell a doctor that you don't want your child to have a vaccination - the doctor will try to talk you out of it, but you can do it.

SCHOOLS on the other hand can (and do) refuse to allow your child to enroll without the proper vaccinations, but you can always choose to home-school. I wouldn't recommend it though.

You're right in that the doctor doesn't dictate what immunizations your child receives ... they follow the guidelines. I have worked as an ortho/neuro nurse in the hospital setting, a pediatric nurse in a physician's office and now work as a school nurse. I have observed doctors advise parents that they will need to find a new doctor if they do not agree with the recommendations made by them. The majority of the doctors for whom I worked at the practice were not taking new patients because they were already so busy, so asking a patient to leave just opens it up to those who have been trying to get in to that practice. As a school nurse, I have personally sent out letters to folks advising them they have a 30 day grace period in which to comply with the state law that requires their child to be up-to-date on immunizations. I have only had one parent who chose not to comply and she removed her two children from school. The last I heard, DCS was looking in to the case because no other school would take them (no immunizations) and she was not home-schooling ... just keeping the kids at home.

When it comes to the helmet issue, children are not capable of making rational decisions at a young age. It is a parent's responsibility to provide safety for our child(ren). Everyone has differing opinions and that's what makes the world go 'round and makes it a more interesting place to live. Personally, I wear a helmet, my husband wears a helmet and our 18-year-old daughter wears a helmet. If the law requires a helmet, by all means wear a helmet. If it comes down to choice, it's a choice of chance or a choice of safety. I have cared for patients in the hospital setting who suffered injuries in bike, motorcycle and car accidents. If a helmet can help protect my head from some of the injuries I have seen inflicted on others, believe me ... I'm wearing the helmet.

I have cared for patients in the hospital setting who suffered injuries in bike, motorcycle and car accidents. If a helmet can help protect my head from some of the injuries I have seen inflicted on others, believe me ... I'm wearing the helmet.

So, do you wear a helmet while driving your car?

Yes, I do.

:D J/K, of course. No, I don't wear a helmet when riding in a car. I buckle up and depend on the steel of the car roof to come between me and the road should my car overturn. I didn't mean to imply in my previous post that people should wear helmets in their cars, but I can see why someone would read it that way.

Quite the norm in some countries... (http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/julian/bikes/bikes.html)

http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/julian/bikes/bike.jpg

Though seat belt and child seat use is compulsory. (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_982.html)

Quite the norm in some countries... (http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/julian/bikes/bikes.html)

http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/julian/bikes/bike.jpg

Though seat belt and child seat use is compulsory. (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_982.html)


I've never seen as many crazies as in Thailand. No joke, the whole family on a moped, no helmets, shorts & t-shirts with sandals for mom & dad, & the baby was butt-naked.

Boy, that "[reply w/ quote]" is certainly a fabulous option! :rolleyes:

Look out, here's another bunch of crazy Taiwanese:

http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/dliu/family4.jpg

...nothing a little education won't help, I guess. (http://www.calstatela.edu/faculty/dliu/Default.htm)

I took my kiddo in for his 6 year-old medical check up here recently. The check up package that we got to fill out ahead of time from his pediatrician actually included a written agreement that I had to sign saying that I would provide him with a helmet if he were doing anything that involved wheels. During our visit I ask her what would she do if a parent didn't want to sign it. She said that she would refuse to treat their child. Then she reached into her drawer and pulled out a how-to-buy-a-helmet spec sheet that included some nice discount coupons good at just about any of the local bike shops and discount stores. Pretty cool!


Neat! Maybe he's even one of those doctors who won't prescribe birth control or morning after pills.
I love it when Doctors can make your decisions for you! Awesome!!!

Don't over react to the helmet thing. I was an adult before I saw my first bicycle helmet. Bell tried to sell them in the '70s and couldn't give them away. Unlike motorcycles where head injuries in the event of a crash are common and often severe, I can personally vouch for experiencing dozens and seeing maybe 100's of non-helmeted bicycle crashes without a single head injury. I probably still have gravel in my knees and elbows from all the crashes I took as a kid.

Bike helmets didn't become popular until municipalities started mandating their use. I wouldn't be surprised if the helmet manufacturers saw the success manufacturers of car seats had after they were made mandatory and lobbied for the same. Maybe even a little kickback money to the legislators, in NY that wouldn't surprise many people.

I remember when the legislation was first talked about in my area there just weren't the statistics to back it up but people generally thought "can't hurt". Then there was an outcry that it would be a burden on the poor to have to purchase helmets so the "state" provided them. It's been a good business ever since. Helmets don't cost that much, at least sensible ones, and we all get ripped off in bigger ways so not a big deal.

I wouldn't get too exercised at the dad about the helmet. The traffic on the other hand...

Don't know if you're still around but that is a beautiful post well deserving of a bump.

Neat! Maybe he's even one of those doctors who won't prescribe birth control or morning after pills.
I love it when Doctors can make your decisions for you! Awesome!!!

Step away from the God complex, please stand clear of the God complex. Yeah, Doc wuz right about one thing though... that doc won't be consulted for my kid's medical needs.

If you sign the contract and then don't put a helmit on your kid is the doctor going to sue you?

Strollers have wheels, are helmits required?

If you sign the contract and then don't put a helmit on your kid is the doctor going to sue you?
-I would say: this is severe bulls***. I would have stopped the show right there, ask for copies of my kids medical records and told them it was because I was going to go find another pediatrician that wasn't a lifestyle Nazi. F*ck them and their "contract".

I don't get why so many people think it's great that a doctor is trying to dictate peoples lives outside of the task of treating injuries. What next? Will you have to agree not to smoke and not to bring any fatty foods into the house? Not to buy any violence-oriented toys? Not to watch any violent TV? Not to own firearms?......
--------
You might keep in mind--that this "extreem helmet fetish" is only a recent phenomenon, and only in the USA. Most of the rest of the world still doesn't wear them, and because of that, head injuries from not wearing helmets while riding bicycles kills six hundred million people every day. ....Not.....
~

What's sad is that people obviously unfit for parenthood are pumping out babies right and left, so more educated people feel like they need to step up to the plate and do something about it. I'm big on Darwinism, if someone wants to do something that can get themself killed, I'm all for it. But a parent endangering their child is wrong, as the child not only doesn't know better, but thinks everything their parent does is perfect.

Guess we're all very fortunate that you know better for us than we do. What in the world did we do before there were more educated people than us?

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. Omnipotent moral busybodies, those who torment us for own good, will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis (paraphrased)