that's the headline the Daily News gave it, and it's appropriate enough:
B'klyn bike horror
Woman, 28, killed by truck
By NANCY DILLON
and JONATHAN LEMIRE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Jose Cruz, driver of ice cream truck that ran over and killed bicyclist, a lawyer.
Body of Elizabeth Padilla is covered at Park Slope intersection after cyclist fell while riding between trucks and was crushed.
A bicyclist who tried to squeeze between two trucks on a bustling Brooklyn street was crushed to death yesterday after she fell underneath one of the rigs, police said.
As Elizabeth Padilla, a 28-year-old lawyer, attempted to pass a 10-wheel Edy's Ice Cream truck, the driver of another truck parked on Fifth Ave. in Park Slope opened his door, witnesses said.
Padilla swerved to avoid the door but hit the side of the moving ice cream truck, causing her to topple under the vehicle's large rear wheels, police said.
She was killed instantly, just six blocks from her apartment.
"She's just the most wonderful, caring individual I've ever met," her husband's stunned uncle said last night outside her Berkeley Place apartment.
The uncle, who declined to give his name, said Padilla was a graduate of Cornell Law School and worked as an attorney for a nonprofit group.
She ran in marathons and rode her bike often, he said.
"She was a guide for a blind man in a bike race," he said. "That says it all. That's the type of person she was."
Padilla's shoes were torn from her feet during the 9 a.m. collision and remained clipped into the pedals of her high-end aluminum bike hours after the wreck.
Witness George Zampetis, 51, and another pedestrian chased down the ice cream truck and stopped it two blocks away, telling the driver, "You just killed a woman," he said.
"He didn't realize he hit her," said Juan Santiago, 48, a construction worker. "He was totally shocked."
The ice cream truck driver, Jose Cruz, sat with his head in his hands near the driver of the P.C. Richard & Son truck who opened his door. Cops did not give a summons to either driver.
"It was an accident," said Ioseb Peikrishuili, who was behind the wheel of the P.C. Richard truck. "I didn't see her."
What's shocking is how the news story is totally biased against the bike rider.
And that the driver that doored the cyclists was not charged.
Bike horror indeed, it was TRUCK HORROR.
galen_52657
06-10-05, 10:54 AM
Its a shame it happened. However, given the original statement posted, I fail to see how the truck drive opening the door could be blamed. Sounds like she was trying to fit herself into to small of an area. If she had passed the moving truck on the left and not the right, it would not have happened. If she did not have room on the right to miss the opening door without swerving left, than she did not have enough room to be there. Ride far enough left of parked vehicles that if they open the door, you don't have to adjust your line.
moxfyre
06-10-05, 10:59 AM
Its a shame it happened. However, given the original statement posted, I fail to see how the truck drive opening the door could be blamed. Sounds like she was trying to fit herself into to small of an area. If she had passed the moving truck on the left and not the right, it would not have happened. If she did not have room on the right to miss the opening door without swerving left, than she did not have enough room to be there. Ride far enough left of parked vehicles that if they open the door, you don't have to adjust your line.
I agree. It sounds like she was (tragically) at fault. However I'm skeptical that the way it was described is how it really happens. It's possible that in fact the ice cream truck was squeezing her by passing her on the left. Don't know if this is what really happened, but it's certainly possible, and that kind of @#()$ happens all the time to me :(
scarry
06-10-05, 11:06 AM
Its a shame it happened. However, given the original statement posted, I fail to see how the truck drive opening the door could be blamed. Sounds like she was trying to fit herself into to small of an area. If she had passed the moving truck on the left and not the right, it would not have happened. If she did not have room on the right to miss the opening door without swerving left, than she did not have enough room to be there. Ride far enough left of parked vehicles that if they open the door, you don't have to adjust your line.
Agreed, I would never put myself in such a situation, and if I did I would go slow enough to stop quickly if a door did open.
But the news coverage was shamefuly biased.
kirkmuffin
06-10-05, 11:35 AM
isn't it the law that a vehicle opening a door should check before opening it that its not interfering with traffic?
The cyclist could have been riding more defensively, but at the end of the day, the doorer is at fault.
brokenrobot
06-10-05, 12:23 PM
We need a clarification on which direction the truck that hit her was coming. That's a one-lane-each-way road where cars and delivery trucks often doublepark; sounds to me like the PC Richards truck was making a delivery, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that it was doubleparked, so when she passed it she was at the far left edge of her lane, right alongside oncoming traffic. When the door was opened, then, she would have possibly swerved / fallen into oncoming traffic, under the rear wheels of the truck going the opposite way... which would be supported by the photos placing her directly in the center of the road, and which would also explain how she was hit by the back wheels only.
I'm not certain the above is accurate, but it certainly would fit with the layout of 5th Avenue at that intersection and with the available evidence... All I'm saying is: it's far too early to start blaming the cyclist, based on the little we know! She was almost certainly too close to the PC Richards truck, true - but it's also quite possible that she was in exactly the only place she could be physically, and exactly where she *ought* to have been legally. If so, the PC Richards driver (if he was double-parked, as I suspect) should be cited for reckless endangerment at the very least.
slvoid
06-10-05, 12:31 PM
It seems like she put herself in a situation where being doored would easily have tragic consequences. But the truck driver caused it by opening the door w/o looking. I've had that happen a lot and certainly try to give a good loud "YO" if I see a truck with a driver stopped and about to open the door.
Laika
06-10-05, 12:38 PM
Without speculating about fault, I'll say for those who are some distance away from Brooklyn & may not have a feel for the lay of the land, that 5th Avenue in Brooklyn is a two-lane, two-way avenue. In the section where this woman was killed, it runs through a mixed commercial area, with lots of delivery trucks and passenger cars making sudden, surprising and frequently illegal decisions about where they move, place and manuver their vehicles. It also happens to be a recommended bike route and if fact just a few blocks from where this happened has a well marked bike lane.
It's a popular route for both commuters and roadies going to the park to ride loops, and it can be very congested at nearly any hour. (My own scariest personal experience there- I was headed southbound, in the bike lane, commuting home after midnight one night, well lit and reflected, when a northbound private carting truck swerved out of his lane across the southbound lane and through the bike lane, finally coming to a halt about two feet from where I'd skidded to a halt. Gotta pick up that trash!)
It's a tough route. She was an experienced cyclist. There was no malice involved. This was probably, sadly, just another stupid, preventable, million-to-one accident where everyone and no one is to blame.
galen_52657
06-10-05, 12:40 PM
OK...we have 2 fatalities being co-mingled here....
rollfast68
06-10-05, 12:43 PM
I agree that the person who opened the door was at fault and should be charged with reckless endangerment. There are too many accidents involving doors. Many people who don't ride bikes don't even realize that it's a problem. The city should educate with public service announcements, like ones about saving water & electricity, and having safe sex, that are on subways and buses, bus stops etc. Taxis should have a sticker about it. It is crazy and easy to blame the cyclist. People need to know to look and make sure it is clear before they open their door.
lilHinault
06-10-05, 12:52 PM
Just remember, every time a biker gets killed by a car or truck, an oil executive gets his wings!
Stacy
06-10-05, 01:24 PM
Without speculating about fault, I'll say for those who are some distance away from Brooklyn & may not have a feel for the lay of the land, that 5th Avenue in Brooklyn is a two-lane, two-way avenue. In the section where this woman was killed, it runs through a mixed commercial area, with lots of delivery trucks and passenger cars making sudden, surprising and frequently illegal decisions about where they move, place and manuver their vehicles. It also happens to be a recommended bike route and if fact just a few blocks from where this happened has a well marked bike lane.
The impression I had from the Newsday (http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/brooklyn/nyc-dead0610,0,3735632.story?coll=nyc-manheadlines-brooklyn) story is that she tried to stop to avoid the door but couldn't unclip,. and fell beneath the rear wheels of the tractor trailer ice cream truck.
Cyclist error or not, this is a residential neighborhood, plenty of pedestrians, kids going to school, etc., why do we allow tractor trailer trucks to travel on streets like this?
galen_52657
06-10-05, 01:33 PM
It's Brooklyn. The truck that ran over her was not a tractor-trailer according to the story. The truck that opened it's door was a tractor-trailer. If there are stores nearby, they need their deliveries.
Based on the information given, it would seem like rider error.
anders
06-10-05, 02:06 PM
It's Brooklyn. If there are stores nearby, they need their deliveries. Based on the information given, it would seem like rider error.
Of course stores need their deliveries, and the truck driver had a right to open his door, but the truck driver should have checked to see that it was safe for him to do so first.
anders
06-10-05, 02:13 PM
I agree that the person who opened the door was at fault and should be charged with reckless endangerment. There are too many accidents involving doors. Many people who don't ride bikes don't even realize that it's a problem. The city should educate with public service announcements, like ones about saving water & electricity, and having safe sex, that are on subways and buses, bus stops etc. Taxis should have a sticker about it. It is crazy and easy to blame the cyclist. People need to know to look and make sure it is clear before they open their door.
I agree with this compeletely.
galen_52657
06-10-05, 02:19 PM
Of course stores need their deliveries, and the truck driver had a right to open his door, but the truck driver should have checked to see that it was safe for him to do so first.
Thats true. Maybe he checked his mirror and was to high up to see her. We don't have those kinds of details. But one thing is for sure. I NEVER ride in a possition on the road where a door could hit me. If a guy jumped out of a truck in front of me, I would T-bone him before swerving out in the road. We all ride. We all know the dangers. If you are smart, you minimize the dangers as best you can. People open doors. People do all kinds of dumb stuff. If you are aware of that, then half the battle is won.
anders
06-10-05, 03:30 PM
If you are smart, you minimize the dangers as best you can. People open doors. People do all kinds of dumb stuff. If you are aware of that, then half the battle is won.
I agree, but most drivers expect bicyclists to ride as far to the right as possible. I mysel stay out in the road to avoid car doors, but this often annoys motorists and some of them even get aggressive. And to make it worse, many cars today, particulary suvs, have longer doors and tinted windows so it even more dangerous.
Laika
06-10-05, 05:59 PM
since there's a brooklyn cm tonight, I of couse have to work late, but anyone local who's interested in goint down to the intersection, CM's going by there around8. which with critical mass being the way it its, means they'll get there shortly after 8:30, if they don't all get arrested.
goldenchild
06-10-05, 06:43 PM
I was there to see the body that morning, just stopped at gorilla for my morning shot of espresso only to hear the commotion. I thought to myself "I'd bet anyone a million dollars that's a bike accident up the block". As I walk over, sure enough there's the body laying there. I didn't find out until that evening that it was a woman that got hit, as I couldn't tell becuase their head was so badly crushed.
My thoughts and well wishes go out to the family. A very sad day. Just last month I lost a friend who was killed on Houston and Ave A while coming home to bklyn from work, now this.
I ride 5th Ave everyday, and it's been getting more and more crowded with cars and trucks than ever before. 2 months ago I was hit and went thru the windshield of a car that made an illegal u-turn in front of me. This was on 5th and Garfield as I was heading home in the evening traveling southbound in the bike lane. The driver ended up getting arrested but only because he happenend to have warrants out on him. Now he's upstate serving his time.
I'm a former messenger of 4 years, I still race the alleycats, and I still race mountain bikes, and I consider myself a very experienced cyclist, and I'm very comfortable in traffic. What's my point?
My point is is that no matter who's at fault for anything, the drivers or cyclists, it's up to us the cyclists to survive the streets. Sure the driver that hit me was legally at fault but I like to think of it as being my fault for not anticipating his move. It's a war out there and the only ones that'll be hurt is us so ride as aggressive as you can but think DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE.
NYCommuter
06-10-05, 07:28 PM
First of all, yes, this is Brooklyn. But a part of Brooklyn where 10 wheelers do not belong. It is very residential and, as others mentioned, this is a popular and official "bike" route for a lot of riders.
Second, I think the reporting, as well as some comments here, is really biased against the cyclist.
There are many ways to read this story; one fact that I think has been overlooked is that the ice cream truck was moving when she avoided getting doored by a parked truck: "Padilla swerved to avoid the door but hit the side of the moving ice cream truck, causing her to topple under the vehicle's large rear wheels, police said."
If the ice cream truck was moving, as indicated in this story, I don't see how she did anything reckless.
The way I see it, this is a classic case of dooring. She stopped short of hitting the door of the legally* parked truck (*see pics...), could not unclip in time and fell under the wheels of the ice cream truck (http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/bronx/nyc-dead0610,0,581723.story?coll=nyc-manheadlines-bronx).
What a horrible way to die.
She was riding with moving traffic. There is no indication that she was riding too fast (the fact that she did not hit the door indicates so), and I don't see why she should have passed to the right of the moving ice cream truck.... If you look at the photos and imagine a 10 wheeler, that would have meant riding on the other side of the double yellow line...
Bottom line, if ANYONE is at fault here, it is the person that opened the door.
That was reckless, and deserves punishment.
I ride on that spot everyday and as I read all the reports and look at the photos, I am convinced that Elizabeth Padilla was sadly and tragically killed in a one in a million situation. Not sure we can really blame anyone here, but I certainly feel that she was not reckless or careless... She was not trying to "squeeze" in, she was riding in the crowded streets of Brooklyn. A ten wheeler belongs there less than she did. She, like all of of us, deserved a safe place to ride her bike.
O.
Laika
06-10-05, 07:35 PM
I ride 5th Ave everyday, and it's been getting more and more crowded with cars and trucks than ever before.
good thoughts and comments all the way through, I just wanted to respond to this in particular...
ironically, I've recently added 5th Ave from Dean to 3rd to the park as part of my commute because it seems safer than Flatbush to GAP to the park, which is what I'd done before.
slvoid
06-10-05, 09:27 PM
Actually, I ride 5th avenue all the way everyday and since school is out, it's been less congested and dangerous than before. Aside from trucks, the next most dangerous thing would be those damn parents in minivans and suv's.
BadAssBiker
06-10-05, 09:48 PM
There are some pics of the memorial during Brooklyn Critical Mass here. (http://nyc.indymedia.org/feature/display/152253/index.php)
The community support was amazing, brought a tear to my eye.
Edit: The pictures have been moved here. (http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/152278/index.php)
slvoid
06-10-05, 10:08 PM
Aw man, I forgot, I would've loved to be there to lay down some roses...
nycm'er
06-11-05, 01:01 AM
My point is is that no matter who's at fault for anything, the drivers or cyclists, it's up to us the cyclists to survive the streets. Sure the driver that hit me was legally at fault but I like to think of it as being my fault for not anticipating his move. It's a war out there and the only ones that'll be hurt is us so ride as aggressive as you can but think DEFENSE DEFENSE DEFENSE.
Good post, good point.
We are on our own, the cops won't ticket these people but they will arrest cyclists for fabricated legal violations. I think it was sad to see all the posters on this forum blame the cyclist, if you haven't been here, if you haven't ridden here, and you really don't know how she was killed, yet you blame her...
Maybe suggested bike routes should not have commercial traffic on them and the speed limit should be lowered, anything to cut the aggressiveness. It seems that if you take someone's life, negligently or "accidentally" you should automatically lose your license for a long while. That would bleed some of the aggressive arrogance out of some of these drivers.
Brian
06-11-05, 01:56 AM
By choosing to ride in NYC, you are accepting a certain amount of risk. For those of us that know what NYC is like, this should come as no surprise. What happened was tragic, but I fail to see how anyone can blame either party. None of us were there.
One of my Aussie mates, Jock (a regular on The Aussie Thread) nearly met a similar fate - he was unable to unclip and fell beneath the wheels of a moving truck. He survived, and still rides and races today. I'm curious about what his thoughts on the subject are.
nycm'er
06-11-05, 07:53 AM
The stories are very clear, she was avoiding being doored, in NYC you door someone, you do not have "control over your vehicle" and you are at fault.
I think the larger point some of the city riders were making, is that these trucks don't need to be there, nor do they need to be such a protected sacred cow.
IMO, they don't deseve such respect.
slvoid
06-11-05, 11:45 AM
The stories are very clear, she was avoiding being doored, in NYC you door someone, you do not have "control over your vehicle" and you are at fault.
I think the larger point some of the city riders were making, is that these trucks don't need to be there, nor do they need to be such a protected sacred cow.
IMO, they don't deseve such respect.
Exactly! They don't sail large supertankers into shallow harbors, they don't run a 100,000 volt trunk int the middle of the city, they don't run a 16 lane interstate superhighway through densely populated city, and they sure as hell shouldn't have 18 wheelers in dense urban traffic.
Stacy
06-11-05, 11:56 AM
Exactly! They don't sail large supertankers into shallow harbors, they don't run a 100,000 volt trunk int the middle of the city, they don't run a 16 lane interstate superhighway through densely populated city, and they sure as hell shouldn't have 18 wheelers in dense urban traffic.
Just allowing tractor trailer trucks on a street like 5th Avenue creates a dangerous situation. Take a look at the overhead photos . It doesn't look like there's enough room for a large truck to safely pass a parked tractor-trailer without crossing the double yellow line - not to forget any traffic passing in the opposite direction.
Of course businesses need deliveries but they don't have to be delivered in truck this large.
Stacy
bennyk
06-11-05, 03:45 PM
Of course businesses need deliveries but they don't have to be delivered in truck this large.
i guess i don't really disagree, but restricting this kind of traffic and requiring all cargo to be re-packed outside of the city for delivery would be prohibitively expensive.
bk
nycm'er
06-11-05, 05:40 PM
Are you sure? I don't know, but these trucks sit in traffic created by their size anyway, it would seem that if they were smaller and electric ( I think they get loaded just out of the city, if not in the city anyway) they would be much less a burden on themselves and city dwellers. Do you know it would be "prohibitively" expensive?
Brian
06-11-05, 06:19 PM
An electric truck? There's a great idea. A couple thousand pounds of lead and chemicals underneath. And it will be charged how? From electricity generated by a nuclear plant? Just wondering, that's all. Let me know if that's going to bring back this cyclist.
Maybe 2 smaller trucks would be a better idea. Twice as many vehicles on the road that way.
Not trying to start an argument here, just pointing out that there's no easy solution here.
slvoid
06-11-05, 09:36 PM
An electric truck? There's a great idea. A couple thousand pounds of lead and chemicals underneath. And it will be charged how? From electricity generated by a nuclear plant? Just wondering, that's all. Let me know if that's going to bring back this cyclist.
Maybe 2 smaller trucks would be a better idea. Twice as many vehicles on the road that way.
Not trying to start an argument here, just pointing out that there's no easy solution here.
You're looking at this from a completely wrong perspective. I don't care if it's generated by nuclear, the problem isn't the energy (For me at least), it's that trucks spew a lot of crap into the air, which my body has to filter out since I'm an air breathing engine. Replace cars in DENSE urban environments with electric and the air can be much cleaner. And rather than SLA, which is pretty old school, they can go with either metal hydride or lithium.
Smaller trucks and greater restrictions won't bring back this cyclist, but don't you think it might prevent future accidents?
slvoid
06-11-05, 09:39 PM
i guess i don't really disagree, but restricting this kind of traffic and requiring all cargo to be re-packed outside of the city for delivery would be prohibitively expensive.
bk
A lot of these trucks are loaded by the docks on the shore. Small stores don't need to be restocked with 18 wheelers. Large stores should have an area for those trucks to unload, just not in the street and they certainly shouldn't arrive by means of residential streets.
Brian
06-11-05, 09:51 PM
Replace cars in DENSE urban environments with electric and the air can be much cleaner. And rather than SLA, which is pretty old school, they can go with either metal hydride or lithium.
Cleaner air at the expense of what? Electricity isn't free, with the exception of solar. Electrics still have an environmental impact. NiMH of lithium to power a large vehicle? I'm sure companies would jump at the chance to spend an extra couple of hundred thousand for a truck with a lower GVW rating. Plenty of clean burning compressed gas cabs where I live (as opposed to petrol). Gas powered buses too.
Each of us makes choices every day. You choose to ride in the city, you accept the risk. There is no other place in the world like NYC. If you want to live there, you've got to compromise.
Laika
06-11-05, 10:15 PM
Each of us makes choices every day. You choose to ride in the city, you accept the risk. There is no other place in the world like NYC. If you want to live there, you've got to compromise.
I totally understand what you're getting at here, and agree that the cost of consumerism must be paid at some point in the supply chain, vis a vis fuel choices for vehicles. But I do, as a Brooklyn native & lifelong NYC citizen, take exception to this one thought you've shared. It's really important, in NYC, to be willing to push back right now. There are mighty changes afoot, what with a billionaire mayor eager to curtail civil liberties and at the same time give away huge tracts of land to billionaire developers, and yet the west side stadium died in a hail of public and vocal dissent. We don't have to compromise, and every new yorker has a chance to remake the city in his own image, if he can find enough like-minded folks to push back.
One example-Commerce Bank recently tried to build a new facility on the same avenue where this accident took place. CommerceBank is a suburban chain, mostly, and their banks are for the most part freestanding buildings with drive-thru lanes. (If you don't know park slope, this sort of facility simply could not be less appropriate) This is what they had planned for their new branch in the heart of brownstone Brooklyn, but enough folks kicked up a ruckus that they've modified their plans to fit better with the spirit and character of the neighborhood.
The minute we give the momentum over to developers and profiteers is the minute we lose the city. Thes fukkers can and have been fought off before, but only if everyone here stands firm and claims the city for its citizens and not those who seek to bleed it dry.
OK, that's enough civic boosterism for now.
Brian
06-11-05, 10:24 PM
I understand your passion here. I lived in Rockland County for my first 7 years. Even though I have permanent residency in Australia, I'm still a New Yorker by birth.
slvoid
06-11-05, 10:40 PM
Cleaner air at the expense of what? Electricity isn't free, with the exception of solar. Electrics still have an environmental impact.
You obviously don't live in a dense city and if you do, you're obviously ignorant to the density of pollution here. The point isn't to eliminate pollution, it's to reduce the density of it. Gas powered isn't free either, it (DUH) also has an environmental impact, all the way from processing to combustion. Neither is solar if you follow it from production to end product.
Rockland county's much different from NYC. Millions of vehicles in a densely populated city spewing anything out in the air isn't the solution since most only drive 20-30 miles a day.
I understand you love to point out flaws and ask "what if?" but do you have any ideas for resolving the problem?
Brian
06-12-05, 12:16 AM
Funny, you and I used to agree on most things. I haven't been to NYC for just over a year now, but that doesn't make me ignorant. As I recall, most of the traffic was taxis and buses. No one is forcing people to drive in the city, there's plenty of alternative transport. Conversely, no one is forcing anyone to live in the city.
At the risk of generating a further argument, why do you choose to live in the city? I live near the beach, in a low density area, which still has excellent public transport. I'm not willing to sacrifice health and safety for whatever allure a big city has.
And no, I don't have a solution to the problem. But I'm realistic in my views as well. You are fighting politicians and the almighty dollar, which is almost always a losing battle.
bennyk
06-12-05, 12:21 AM
A lot of these trucks are loaded by the docks on the shore. Small stores don't need to be restocked with 18 wheelers. Large stores should have an area for those trucks to unload, just not in the street and they certainly shouldn't arrive by means of residential streets.
yeah, ok, i didn't think of that.
bk
bennyk
06-12-05, 12:25 AM
Are you sure? I don't know, but these trucks sit in traffic created by their size anyway, it would seem that if they were smaller and electric ( I think they get loaded just out of the city, if not in the city anyway) they would be much less a burden on themselves and city dwellers. Do you know it would be "prohibitively" expensive?
just thinking about the labor to change to smaller trucks / pay twice as many drivers, etc. was what lead me to think that.
i obviously don't have any empirical data, but i have some experience with shipping/freight charges and getting trucks to deliver equipment in the city.
9 times out of 10 the trucking companies are doing their best just to get the stuff there in the first place. I can't even imagine how big a wrench size requirements/having to change trucks would throw into the equation.
bk
Brian
06-12-05, 02:22 AM
A lot of these trucks are loaded by the docks on the shore. Small stores don't need to be restocked with 18 wheelers. Large stores should have an area for those trucks to unload, just not in the street and they certainly shouldn't arrive by means of residential streets.
Is there existing space available to unload these trucks? Or would this be a requirement for future stores? I doubt that 1 square foot of NY real estate would be used for a loading dock unless absolutely necessary. And are trucks able to get to these locations without travelling on residential streets? I know we have strictly enforced weight limits here.
As far as smaller trucks, from a purely financial view, I can't see that happening. We move about 1,300 metric tonnes of aluminium per day, all by rail. We bring in our empty containers by rail as often as possible too. Next choice is 3 containers on a B Double. Our most expensive option is one box on a single truck. The difference between rail and trucks works out to $50/container x 300 containers/week. A single truck can deliver to multiple locations in one day. A smaller truck may have to go in and out of the city several times to deliver goods, or the supplier needs to send out more trucks to achieve the same volume. That means more truck miles for the same quantity of goods. Two prime movers put out twice as much pollution as one, and probably use twice the fuel, given that so much time is spent idling in traffic. To sum it all up, unless consumers will accept higher prices for their goods, the bigger trucks are going to have to be in city, and cyclists, pedestrians and motorists will need to deal with that.
becnal
06-12-05, 06:08 AM
Incredibly dumb bicycling, no matter how you cut it.
Brian
06-12-05, 06:37 AM
My wife made a similar comment about riding clipped in in NYC traffic.
PainTrain
06-12-05, 07:52 AM
"A bicyclist who tried to squeeze between two trucks"
Trucks should be there, shouldn't, air pollution blah blah.
One who tries this move is risking one's life. It's a hell of a big bet to avoid the inconvenience of stopping the bike and perhaps *gasp* walking the damn thing around the obstruction.
nycm'er
06-12-05, 07:57 AM
That means more truck miles for the same quantity of goods. Two prime movers put out twice as much pollution as one, and probably use twice the fuel, given that so much time is spent idling in traffic....
Good point, I have no data either. Twice the trucks may mean twice the traffic, if that is really the end result of smaller delivery vehicles. Sadly, your rail solutions have been nearly destroyed here. I wish I had a picture of the way McDonalds resupplies their restaurants in town. 18 Wheeler with a roller ramp thing from the curb to the front door. To be fair, I am not sure I have seen this between 9-5 but people have to wait for a break in the frozen cholesterol boxes to stop or walk out in the second lane of traffic around the rig. I don't have the answer, yet, but there are literally tens of thousands of car and trucks that don't leave the five boroughs ever; cabs, delivery trucks, FedEx, etc. That a truck could be smaller or non combustion still might not have saved this woman, but it would certainly change the feel of the "street". I think 95% of this country has its head in the sand about what things finally cost and the impact of extremely cheap goods. I would like to think that people who see the destructive outcome at home and abroad would gladly pay more to live a life with less effect on the world. i.e.death of a lawyer in Park Slope or a child in Iraq or pollution etc.
slvoid
06-12-05, 11:15 AM
My wife made a similar comment about riding clipped in in NYC traffic.
It's no more dangerous than FG's, toe straps, or platforms, if you know what you're doing.
Unfortunately some people either don't or they take risks and lose. It's unfortunately and freak accidents like this are a combination of poor cycling techniques combined with chance.
PainTrain
06-12-05, 11:47 AM
Maybe I was too harsh above; this might be the kind of thing (riding between vehicles) that you do successfully so many times, you forget how dangerous it really is.
Brian
06-12-05, 02:36 PM
It's no more dangerous than FG's, toe straps, or platforms, if you know what you're doing.
Unfortunately some people either don't or they take risks and lose. It's unfortunately and freak accidents like this are a combination of poor cycling techniques combined with chance.
No, not safer than platforms in traffic. Even pro riders can't always unclip in time.