General Cycling Discussion - My NY Chain (or EV Disc lock) was cut!

Hi:

I have been commuting to work by bike since last month. The neighborhood (Cerritos, CA) where I locked my bike is a pretty safe one. However, to protect my first road bike I bought a NY chain with a EV mini disk lock around a metal light pole cemented into the ground.

On my way back home, I usually leave the bulky chain around the pole and use it the next day morning. This scheme has been working well until ...

last Monday, my chain/lock disappeared. Out of emergency I had to leave my bike inside a nearby grocery store for that day and picked it up in the afternoon. I contacted the local sheriffs, and they said they did not remove the chain/lock. If this was indeed done by a crook, what would be his motivations in cutting a lonely chain/lock hanging around a light pole?

I'm not sure if I should continue to commute by ride. Glad that my bike is still with me ...

Hmm perhaps some drunk guys decided it would be fun to see if they could lift it all the way over the top of the light pole? :D Apart from that im stumped

Criminals didn't quit school and become criminals because they're smart did they!

they probably thought, there's a $70 lock, let's get it!
:rolleyes:
bk

Hi:

I have been commuting to work by bike since last month. The neighborhood (Cerritos, CA) where I locked my bike is a pretty safe one. However, to protect my first road bike I bought a NY chain with a EV mini disk lock around a metal light pole cemented into the ground.

On my way back home, I usually leave the bulky chain around the pole and use it the next day morning. This scheme has been working well until ...

last Monday, my chain/lock disappeared. Out of emergency I had to leave my bike inside a nearby grocery store for that day and picked it up in the afternoon. I contacted the local sheriffs, and they said they did not remove the chain/lock. If this was indeed done by a crook, what would be his motivations in cutting a lonely chain/lock hanging around a light pole?

I'm not sure if I should continue to commute by ride. Glad that my bike is still with me ...

This same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. Some people will steal anything, especially if it's there all night and they've got the means. I was just happy it didn't happen when my bike was there!

the NY chain, who ever stole it will probably hang it in there trophy room

Sheriffs don't care about that stuff. Your local Public Works would and most likely took it off with an axle grinder or pneumatic bolt cutters. They're good but not impregnable, or even the best for that matter.

Did it have a "round" style key? If it did anyone could have taken it.

No, the EV disc lock uses a flat key. I also called the City Hall, and they told me their Public Work staff won't do it either. I come to believe the crook just wants to show off his arsenal and determination.

I plan to use a quality U-lock (Onguard Bulldog or NY 3000) and bring it with me while riding from now on. Would this be a good idea?

No, the EV disc lock uses a flat key. I also called the City Hall, and they told me their Public Work staff won't do it either. I come to believe the crook just wants to show off his arsenal and determination.

I plan to use a quality U-lock (Onguard Bulldog or NY 3000) and bring it with me while riding from now on. Would this be a good idea?

Why don't you double up? A U-lock such as you mentioned and a chain or heavy cable. Theives usually carry tools to break one type of lock, not two.

BTW, have you thought that perhaps it was a nearby business? Years ago the street where I lived and worked on installed parking meters in front of the residents houses/businesses. Not liking the idea that we had to pay to park in front of our own houses, we formed the Neighborhood Parking Meter Authority. Several of us went out one night with a Sawzall and cut the damn things down. The neighborhood scrapper was more then happy to haul them away. Anything's possible...

Flat keys can be picked in less then 5 minutes by a skilled person. But I think they did it just because they can! OR sometimes the local authorites may not know who might have done it but maybe Public Works removed it since they don't like stuff attached to their poles and left there. This should teach you two valuable lessons though: 1) don't rely on one lock to lock your bike, use a second different type of locks (as Ziemas mentioned) like a Krypto NY U-Bolt or the Masterlock Cuffs or the new armored cable locks (cables by themselves are too easy to defeat); and 2) take your locks home with you!

That's a lot of work just to get a piece of chain.

Why don't you double up? A U-lock such as you mentioned and a chain or heavy cable. Theives usually carry tools to break one type of lock, not two.

BTW, have you thought that perhaps it was a nearby business? Years ago the street where I lived and worked on installed parking meters in front of the residents houses/businesses. Not liking the idea that we had to pay to park in front of our own houses, we formed the Neighborhood Parking Meter Authority. Several of us went out one night with a Sawzall and cut the damn things down. The neighborhood scrapper was more then happy to haul them away. Anything's possible...

What the? Did you try applying for a resident's permit instead of doing something outrageously illegal?

What the? Did you try applying for a resident's permit instead of doing something outrageously illegal?
They wern't giving them out. No notification by the city was given that the meters were being installed. One day some city workers came and installed the meters. Pay up or move your car. I don't think so.

The chances that your chain "was cut" are just about zero. Your chain went over the top of the pole, or you forgot to lock the shackle. I've walked past bike racks where a lock was open, next to the bike. Someone got the lock out, their cell phone rang, or something, they got distracted and walked away. A few weeks ago, I came home with groceries, left my bike on the front porch, and went to put the groceries away. Next morning, there was my bike. Still on the front porch. NOT locked.

Lock got picked? Not many highly experienced locksmiths could open the new Kryptonite locks in less than ten minutes. And, a crook with THAT exceptional level of skills would be out stealing Cannondales, not wasting his time and skills on an old chain.

"Cycling Plus" said it took them eight minutes to cut a Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit chain with a powered cutting tool. Took ten minutes for the New York 3000, which is the toughest lock sold in the USA. So, that chain went "over the top" of the pole, or was never fully locked from the git-go.

Over the years, a number of folks have claimed that a top-of-the-line Kryptonite lock was broken, picked, or cut. Not ONE of those people could produce any remnants of the lock...I guess we are supposed to think that criminals are just "neat freaks", who always clean up their mess. "Neatness" has never been a trait of any of the crooks I've known.

I've known maintence guys that would cut a chain off something just because they COULD - my bet is on a public utilities worker.

I've known maintence guys that would cut a chain off something just because they COULD - my bet is on a public utilities worker.

Good guess, one of my first thoughts.

The fire dept. MUST have tools to break locks quickly, they have the key to everything. Sometimes police and utility workers too. Maintenance guys do need to use that kind of a tool on the job sometimes.
The wrong tool can be loaned to a friend. Or "borrowed".

My friend the Captain in the fire dept always laughs at my Kryptonite NY lock and also the NY chain. He can cut them very, very, quickly if he wants. If he were the wrong type he could loan out certain equipment.

... My friend the Captain in the fire dept always laughs at my Kryptonite NY lock and also the NY chain. He can cut them very, very, quickly if he wants. If he were the wrong type he could loan out certain equipment.

I don't think so. I think that five minutes into the project, your friend the "Captain" would be sweating and cursing. The folks at "Sold Secure", "Cycling Plus", and the ART Foundation have access to the best available tools. Using power tools, the "record" for breaking a 2005 Kryptonite New York 3000 is ten minutes...a record set by people who have broken hundreds of locks over the years, not by a braggadocious public servant encountering the New York 3000 for the first time.

And, many folks who brag about their speed at breaking locks use a lock that is sitting on a test bench. That allows many access points using a variety of tools. If the New York 3000 is correctly positioned around the rear wheel, about twenty inches off the ground, and a beefy locking post, it becomes difficult or impossible to effectively use most breaking and leverage type tools.

AND, using "high power" leverage and prying tools that strong enough to break a "gold-rated" lock is likely to cause heavy damage to the rear wheel or frame. The rear wheel or frame will fold or break long before the lock bends or breaks. The thief ends up with a bike he can't ride or sell.

So, the bottom line is: No crook is gonna bother a bike that is CORRECTLY locked with a NY 3000 or Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit. A third of the bikes in a given neighborhood are locked ONLY with cable locks, which means a crook has a wide choice of bikes that he can take in five seconds or less. A crook ain't gonna waste ten minutes on ONE bike lock when he can break about fifty cable locks during that same time period.

I don't think so. I think that five minutes into the project, your friend the "Captain" would be sweating and cursing. The folks at "Sold Secure", "Cycling Plus", and the ART Foundation have access to the best available tools. Using power tools, the "record" for breaking a 2005 Kryptonite New York 3000 is ten minutes...a record set by people who have broken hundreds of locks over the years, not by a braggadocious public servant encountering the New York 3000 for the first time.


Yeah, but they dont have The Jaws of Life. Also, Ziemas is awesome for that parking meter story.

Yeah, but they dont have The Jaws of Life...

Kryptonite ran a funny ad back around 1985, based on a true story. A college student in a small village lost the keys to her Kryptonite lock (an 80's model, not a much stronger 2005 New York 3000). The officer from the village police used every method he could think of to try to open the lock. No luck.

So, he went after the lock with the "Jaws of Life". He broke the "Jaws of Life". It turns out this tool costs THOUSANDS of dollars. So, the ad shows a photo of the student, smiling. And, a VERY unhappy member of the village council glaring at the embarrassed police officer. The village could have bought the student about ten new bikes for the cost of replacing that broken tool.

I would bring two locks. Get a nice beefy combination lock or something from U-Haul. match it with an armored cable and you have a formidable defense. ANd wrap the cable around hte wheels also, since often wheels tend to cost quite a bit.

I would bring two locks. Get a nice beefy combination lock or something from U-Haul. match it with an armored cable and you have a formidable defense. ANd wrap the cable around hte wheels also, since often wheels tend to cost quite a bit.

"Cycling Plus" editors were able to cut most "armored cables" in ten seconds or less. Even a cable that weighed MORE than a top U-lock, at four pounds, was easy to cut. Cable locks are okay to protect an inexpensive front wheel, or for keeping your bike from blowing over in the wind. They are NOT a security device. Calling them a "lock" is a form of consumer fraud.

Locating a worthwhile lock is easy. The ones that have been tested and that proved they could stop crooks have earned "gold" and "silver" ratings from the Sold Secure organization. It is silly to even THINK about buying a lock that did not pass the Sold Secure tests.

www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

Maybe the crooks were just practicing.

Kryptonite ran a funny ad back around 1985, based on a true story. A college student in a small village lost the keys to her Kryptonite lock (an 80's model, not a much stronger 2005 New York 3000). The officer from the village police used every method he could think of to try to open the lock. No luck.

So, he went after the lock with the "Jaws of Life". He broke the "Jaws of Life". It turns out this tool costs THOUSANDS of dollars. So, the ad shows a photo of the student, smiling. And, a VERY unhappy member of the village council glaring at the embarrassed police officer. The village could have bought the student about ten new bikes for the cost of replacing that broken tool.


About six months before the Kryptonite lock ruckus, I took an old Kryptonite lock (circular cyclinder) to a locksmith shop. I'd lost the keys and asked them to pick it open for me. The locksmiths (there are a bunch that work out of this shop) tried to pick it open. I picked up the lock, three weeks later, still locked tight.

I don't think so. I think that five minutes into the project, your friend the "Captain" would be sweating and cursing. The folks at "Sold Secure", "Cycling Plus", and the ART Foundation have access to the best available tools. Using power tools, the "record" for breaking a 2005 Kryptonite New York 3000 is ten minutes...a record set by people who have broken hundreds of locks over the years, not by a braggadocious public servant encountering the New York 3000 for the first time.

And, many folks who brag about their speed at breaking locks use a lock that is sitting on a test bench. That allows many access points using a variety of tools. If the New York 3000 is correctly positioned around the rear wheel, about twenty inches off the ground, and a beefy locking post, it becomes difficult or impossible to effectively use most breaking and leverage type tools.

AND, using "high power" leverage and prying tools that strong enough to break a "gold-rated" lock is likely to cause heavy damage to the rear wheel or frame. The rear wheel or frame will fold or break long before the lock bends or breaks. The thief ends up with a bike he can't ride or sell.

So, the bottom line is: No crook is gonna bother a bike that is CORRECTLY locked with a NY 3000 or Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit. A third of the bikes in a given neighborhood are locked ONLY with cable locks, which means a crook has a wide choice of bikes that he can take in five seconds or less. A crook ain't gonna waste ten minutes on ONE bike lock when he can break about fifty cable locks during that same time period.


Read the Cycling Plus article again, the part about what tools they use and why. They don't use what I'm talking about. I am not referring to prying or leverage tools either.

The lock tests are done with tools that a crook might carry, something that is not too huge. This test is appropriate for most situations. That's probably what a crook will carry, that makes good sense. The fire dept. does not have that limit. They can use big powerful noisy things. Things that a person in the right profession could possibly use. They can cut them very quickly. It's not in the best interest of cyclists for either one of us to explain in detail about the tools that can be used. I have witnessed what I am describing. I'm going to drop it, I don't want to go into great detail for all to see.

This is not a discussion about a crook possibly choosing what bike to take. You are right, the crook will take the bike with the lesser lock. This is a discussion about a chain that was actually cut. A utility worker thinking that it should not be on the light pole can get that thing off in a minute. He does not care about drawing attention to himself, he is doing something he thinks is justified and probably legal.

The Fire dept. can cut down a metal utility pole in less that 5 minutes !! :) So can I but they won't let me play with their toys .. :(

Get back to me after you go to the Fire dept. I want to know if they let you play with the big toys. :)

Locking the chain to a pole was a bad idea in the first place. You need to hide the chain so these things don't happen. Leaving out exposed is just like leaving your cycle on a bike rack. Don't forget what happend and learn from it. Always hide your bicycle and lock.

...The fire dept. does not have that limit. They can use big powerful noisy things...The Fire dept. can cut down a metal utility pole in less that 5 minutes !! )

Your faith in the Fire Department is touching. But, utility poles are not made out of the same steel used in Kryptonite New York locks or Fahgettaboudit chains. "Cycling Plus" was able to cut some standard steel U-locks in under one minute. The really good ones, took two minutes. The New York 3000 took more than ten minutes. Why? It is about ten times harder to cut than standard steel

The missing chain? Dude forgot to properly secure the lock.

Your faith in the Fire Department is touching. But, utility poles are not made out of the same steel used in Kryptonite New York locks or Fahgettaboudit chains. "Cycling Plus" was able to cut some standard steel U-locks in under one minute. The really good ones, took two minutes. The New York 3000 took more than ten minutes. Why? It is about ten times harder to cut than standard steel

The missing chain? Dude forgot to properly secure the lock.

I'm with the guy who's got the Fire Dept. hook-up. I work in a factory and we use hardened steel chains on some of our machines. When I mean hardened, I mean, they are hard! I took a friend's New York Chain in because she lost the key to her lock. The maintenance guys have a portable hydraulic press that can be fitted with shears or bolt cutting insets. This thing is small enough to be carried around my hand, similar in size to a 2 ton floor jack. Took all of 22 pumps of the lever to get through one link. ONE LINK! That was all that was touched. Then he did it to the other attached link. So her chain is two links shorter and she needs a new Disc Lock. But don't try and tell me it can't be done in less than ten minutes.

Your faith in the Fire Department is touching. But, utility poles are not made out of the same steel used in Kryptonite New York locks or Fahgettaboudit chains. "Cycling Plus" was able to cut some standard steel U-locks in under one minute. The really good ones, took two minutes. The New York 3000 took more than ten minutes. Why? It is about ten times harder to cut than standard steel

The missing chain? Dude forgot to properly secure the lock.


I base my comments on actually watching a NY lock be cut by a huge pneumatic angle grinder in about a minute. I prefer to go by first hand experience instead of what someone tells me. The latest article in Cycling plus (not the one from last year)....that reviews the locks and tries to defeat them explains what they used, the battery powered drill with a grinding wheel. See C+156, page 84

Comparing that to what I am talking about is like a 5 hp lawnmower compared to a Nascar engine. They leave out of the test one of the fastest, yet not very common methods completely, that is faster than all the above and can easily be concealed on your person. Not grinding.

Hardened tool steel up in the Rockwell 60-62 range can be ground very fast with the right grinder, I've done it many times in my shop, you can just make the metal disappear. Until you see it you can hardly believe it. When I was making custom hand made knives out of various types of tool steel at different hardness’s, 440c stainless, even stellite, I had a grinder that would make that stuff just melt away like balsa wood. I think it was 2hp. This is small equipment in the metal working trades.

BTW myself and a few other kifemakers tried to make a knife out of titanium. My 2hp grinder was useless, we finally just gave up. It was difficult to even forge. Tough stuff that ti.

Cyclists, do not worry about a thief carrying or concealing these big noisy grinders :) it's not going to happen, they are huge and they are so noisy you should wear ear protection. The good locks are pretty good protection against what you can hide under your coat. Or something that does not need a big generator to power it.

I'm with the guy who's got the Fire Dept. hook-up. I work in a factory and we use hardened steel chains on some of our machines. When I mean hardened, I mean, they are hard! I took a friend's New York Chain in because she lost the key to her lock. The maintenance guys have a portable hydraulic press that can be fitted with shears or bolt cutting insets. This thing is small enough to be carried around my hand, similar in size to a 2 ton floor jack. Took all of 22 pumps of the lever to get through one link. ONE LINK! That was all that was touched. Then he did it to the other attached link. So her chain is two links shorter and she needs a new Disc Lock. But don't try and tell me it can't be done in less than ten minutes.

The fire dept has one of those too.

Hi:

I went out to take a photo of where the NY chain was removed. Seems like it was removed by a power tool which left dark strips on the concrete.