Living Car Free - bicycle locks

i was just wondering what kind of locking schemes you all used. since my bike is my only transportation and i only have one, i get really paranoid. i use a kryptonite chain lock and a u-lock with those wire things-the ones that fit on the u-lock and can be wound around and thru stuff. its takes time to lock and unlock but i dont feel so queasy while at work. anybody use the krypto new york chain lock?

I have an Onguard Beast chain, but I don't use it at work. But then there are hundreds of bikes parked where I work. I just some kind of Onguard ULock around the front tire and chain. (I know about Sheldon's method, but physical constraints make it impractical in that location)

What is the number one, toughest bike lock?

I use a Kryptonite U-lock with a wraparound "Kryptoflex" cable for my wheels. I have had just about every kind of lock cut before I stepped up to a U-lock, no complaints. I also keep the bike inside with me at home. My system seems to keep the wolves at bay within reason, but I wouldn't leave my bike locked up for several nights like many do.

I'm also car free, I use a lot of different locks. I have a Kryptoflex to hold the front wheel, and back wheel, bike frame, and rack to the tree (or whatever I'm locking to), then a bike club u-lock to the back wheel and the frame. Then a small cable thought the frame, seat, and rack. When I have my Burly trailer I have cable locked to, then I lock it to my rack and back wheel.

Good luck,

GEEK

kryponite chain and a u-lock.

Koffee

kryptonite 2000(the mini version)

What is the number one, toughest bike lock?

1. Kryptonite New York 3000 U-lock (four pounds).

2. Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit Chain lock (eight pounds).

Thanks folks. I'm gonna get me a NY3K.

What's this stuff about the "flat keys" being bad or something?

What's this stuff about the "flat keys" being bad or something?
Ignore it. If they can get past the laser cut keys to pick your lock then they desreve a free bike. It's the round BiCable keyways that raise my hackels

At work, I use a Kryptonite NY Chain on the front wheel + frame and a Kryptonite tubular key U-Lock (read: easily picked) on the back wheel and frame. I already had the latter lock and haven't been bothered to send it back to the company. I figure the NY Chain is enough of a deterrant for would be bike thieves that the second lock is there just for looks.

I use a Kryptonite U-lock (from the replacement program) through one wheel, the frame, and the bike rack. Then I add a strong cable and heavy padlock, with the cable through both wheels, the frame, and the bike rack. My bike is also insured through our homeowner's policy.

Mini U Lock rear wheel to post.
Cable lock to front wheel and frame.

If you're in an area that strips a lot of bikes get a 7' small diameter cable. Loop it through your handlebars, run it through the gap in your chainring, through the seat and to the mini.
Someone could still strip the bike but they'd either have to cut the cable or cut bothe the brake and shifting cables.

Course you could order like 5 matched key mini's and wrap the bike in 1/2 mile of cable, and some thief will just throw a chain to the post/ bike rack and yank the whole thing out of it's concrete...

What's this stuff about the "flat keys" being bad or something?

Conventional wisdom from before the Bic pen exploit - a circular lock has to be picked multiple times to get it to open, so it takes longer to open a lock of the same quality without specialized tools. Now that "specialized tools" = a pen, circular locks are not so good.

What is the number one, toughest bike lock?
1. Kryptonite New York 3000 U-lock (four pounds).

2. Kryptonite Fahgettaboudit Chain lock (eight pounds).

Abus (http://www.abus.de) from Germany make some very beefy U-locks too. And there are several companies that manufacture strong padlocks to be used with a chain of your choice. Many of those will make virtually any chain the weakest link in your locking strategy. See Abloy (http://www.abloyusa.com/padlockspecs.htm), for example.

--J

Oh yes, as an answer to the original question: I use a medium security Abus U-lock (Sinus 46 or something like that) in combination with a small frame-installed rear wheel lock. My bike is usually more locked than 90% of its neighbours in the bike rack. That has been enough so far (knocks wood).

What is the number one, toughest bike lock?

Kryptonite seems to be big in the US. However, for something a little closer to home and probably just as good* try the ABUS Granit X-Plus 54. The Granit Extreme 59 if you want to use one rated for motorcycle protection.

The better ABUS locks can be made with custom keys- i.e. if you get a D-lock and a cable lock, you can get them with identically matched keys to save yourself hassle.

I have an ABUS Manhattan d-lock and a Steel-O-Flex 1000. For my hometown of Sydney, using them in combination is massive overkill, so I only carry the d-lock.



* If not better. These guys never used the stupid barrel-key design that was a big Kryptonite design flaw.

The problem with ABUS is that you can't find it here in the USA! At least, not readily (for someone who may find it in their bike shop somewhere tucked in the corner). I'm not sure what the heck is going on, but ABUS is just not here. So whenever the internationals get online and advocate ABUS, it doesn't really do anything for us here in the States. You can't get it, so that's why we talk about the Kryptonite and On Guard locks. ABUS is not closer to home for us... it's farther.

If anyone knows of a place you can walk in and buy the locks here in the States, let me know. And no, I'm not willing to have it shipped, because the heaviness would probably cost me a ton in shipping (unless sent bulk or reduced rate somehow!).

Koffee

The problem with ABUS is that you can't find it here in the USA! At least, not readily (for someone who may find it in their bike shop somewhere tucked in the corner). I'm not sure what the heck is going on, but ABUS is just not here. So whenever the internationals get online and advocate ABUS, it doesn't really do anything for us here in the States. You can't get it, so that's why we talk about the Kryptonite and On Guard locks. ABUS is not closer to home for us... it's farther.

If anyone knows of a place you can walk in and buy the locks here in the States, let me know. And no, I'm not willing to have it shipped, because the heaviness would probably cost me a ton in shipping (unless sent bulk or reduced rate somehow!).

Koffee

I ordered mine from LockItt (http://www.lockitt.com/Ulocks.htm)... they offer free shipping, but only for orders over $100. I purchased 2 of the Granit X-Plus 54 U-locks with the 12" shackle, as some of our local bike racks (including the ones at work) won't easily accomodate the more common sizes.

My only complaint is that it doesn't come with any mounting hardware, although to be fair there's probably not enough freespace on my frame anyway... for now, I just bungee it to the rear rack. I'm thinking of trying a Topeak OS rack (http://www.topeak.com/products/rack_009.html), however, which looks like it can handle this a bit more elegantly.

EDIT: You're absolutely right, tho... they certainly aren't easy to find in the USA! :(

My concerns about bike locks are in 2 different areas.

Indeed, some U-locks such as Kryptonite and others are really tough. However, I learned that even they can be picked with as much as a bic pen! Having these locks is better than not (I have one) but are there ones that can't be picked?

Also, as other members have pointed out, they tend to be heavy or cumbersome to carry. For example, taking up a lot of panier space, heavy in a backpack, and "one more thing" by strapping it to a rack.
Dependinig upon the area where you live, are carrying these locks more trouble than they're worth?

That's what I have to say. I welcome any replies.

Are there ones that can't be picked?No. Anything man made, man can unmake, and the fact that there is a key for that lock implies that someone can pick it. (Please, someone, bring up the Medeco example to prove me wrong...)



Dependinig upon the area where you live, are carrying these locks more trouble than they're worth?It depends on the area in which you live. ;) Seriously, I've never been to a place that didn't have at least one or two disenfranchised youth who would be willing to steal someone's unlocked bike for a joy ride. Hell, I've been that disenfranchised youth (although I never did steal a bike, mostly because I didn't see any unlocked ones). Maybe you live in one of those areas, and no-one disreputable ever passes through. But I'm guessing you don't, and so yeah, the lock is worth it.

No. Anything man made, man can unmake, and the fact that there is a key for that lock implies that someone can pick it. (Please, someone, bring up the Medeco example to prove me wrong...)


I've met people who have claimed to have been able to pick Medeco locks. However none of them have ever claimed to have been able to do it in under an hour. The real question that should be asked is not whether a lock can be picked, but rather is it worth the effort?

I ordered mine from LockItt (http://www.lockitt.com/Ulocks.htm)... they offer free shipping, but only for orders over $100. I purchased 2 of the Granit X-Plus 54 U-locks with the 12" shackle, as some of our local bike racks (including the ones at work) won't easily accomodate the more common sizes.

My only complaint is that it doesn't come with any mounting hardware, although to be fair there's probably not enough freespace on my frame anyway... for now, I just bungee it to the rear rack. I'm thinking of trying a Topeak OS rack (http://www.topeak.com/products/rack_009.html), however, which looks like it can handle this a bit more elegantly.

EDIT: You're absolutely right, tho... they certainly aren't easy to find in the USA! :(


Thanks. The ABUS Granit 59 HB U-lock... is that the maximum security lock and does it fit around the frame and wheel while locked to an ummoveable object?

Koffee

Thanks. The ABUS Granit 59 HB U-lock... is that the maximum security lock and does it fit around the frame and wheel while locked to an ummoveable object?

Koffee

The Granit 59 appears to be the highest security U-lock which Abus (http://www.abus.de/us/main.asp?ScreenLang=us&sid=17177761052220280720056748110104&select=0106) has to offer, according to their website (you have to look under "Motorbike security" to find it). It's available in both a 260mm and 310mm length (approximately 10" and 12", respectively), but I'm not sure which version LockItt is selling... you might want to email pat@lockitt.com to check (they were pretty prompt when I inquired about the Granit 54).

In the larger version, I doubt you'd have any trouble fastening it through your frame/wheel to an appropriate object. My lock's approximately the same size, and I'm not having any trouble with that scenario.

The "Abus" lock has become somewhat of a "cult" item in the USA, because it is so difficult to find. Each April, the editors of "Cycling Plus" test bike locks. No Abus U-lock has done better in the tests than the Kryptonite New York 3000. But, some Abus locks have done worse. Even, MUCH worse.

Because the New York 3000 is in every good bike shop in America, it is not going to become a "cult" item. But, it remains the best bike lock sold in America that is readily portable (weighing only four pounds...compared with the eight pound locks that can provide equal security).

Indeed, some U-locks such as Kryptonite and others are really tough. However, I learned that even they can be picked with as much as a bic pen! Having these locks is better than not (I have one) but are there ones that can't be picked?

If you have one of the old tubular cylinder kryptonite locks you can send it in to get a replacement for a free replacement; they even cover shipping. If you have one from another company you're probably out of luck.

The "Abus" lock has become somewhat of a "cult" item in the USA, because it is so difficult to find. Each April, the editors of "Cycling Plus" test bike locks. No Abus U-lock has done better in the tests than the Kryptonite New York 3000. But, some Abus locks have done worse. Even, MUCH worse.


Do you mean that some Abus locks have done much worse than the NY3000, or much worse than Kryptonites generally?

If the former, this is to be completely expected. Abus makes a very wide range of locks- some very good and some very basic. But so does Kryptonite, which makes many locks which are much worse than it's NY3000.

If it's the latter, I'd like to know about it though.

I'd assume that the best locks made by any specialist lock company would be pretty much of a muchness. But it's always fun to have unusual gear :)

No. Anything man made, man can unmake, and the fact that there is a key for that lock implies that someone can pick it.
Well, that goes without saying...but locks do a number of things (obvious, I know, but...):

- keep the 'honest' people out
- sends a message depending on your lock choices and methods - "is it worth it?"
- keeps the aforementioned "disenfranchised youth" from yanking a piece of your ride

If you have a dollar store cable lock and a six dollar Wal-Mart U lock with a "bic key" barrel and you're located somewhere like NYC, Boston, Portland, Madison, etc, then a thief is going to look at your bike and then look at the bike next to it with the NY3000 and armored cables...Guess which bike that worthless piece of garbage is going to give a crack at first? That’s how car thieves generally operate. Sure, if they want something that is highly desirable then they’re going to get it no matter what, but I’m going to try to stack the odds in my favor with good locks.



It depends on the area in which you live. ;) Seriously, I've never been to a place that didn't have at least one or two disenfranchised youth who would be willing to steal someone's unlocked bike for a joy ride. Hell, I've been that disenfranchised youth (although I never did steal a bike, mostly because I didn't see any unlocked ones). Maybe you live in one of those areas, and no-one disreputable ever passes through. But I'm guessing you don't, and so yeah, the lock is worth it.

Exactly. Some deterrent is better than no deterrent. I live in a small city/decent-sized town with virtually no real crime and I had a bike stolen! (Though it was unlocked – dammit!) I've lived in some pretty high-bike-theft locations, but I wasn't expecting anything to get ripped off here. Now OTOH, the locks I use here don't really have to be of the highest quality. I cheaped out and have a lowball u-lock, a lowball 5' cable lock, and a couple of 21" dollar store cable locks. When I really want to secure it, I usually u-lock the frame, big cable the wheels, one little cable for the seat and one for the panniers. In a place where theft is a problem, I wouldn't even think of locking the panniers - someone's gonna have a knife and just cut those suckers loose. But here, no one is really going to think of that, and virtually no one even knows how to pick a lock. The tweakers would rather bust out a car window than mess around with three or four locks on some bike. Most of the time just the U or a cable is enough. And the kids are going to grab a bike off someone’s driveway than some ‘old dude’s’ geek special lashed up in front of the grocery store.

When we move though (which we will in a year or two), realistically it will be to a higher crime locale, and when we do I'll have to invest in some real locks. But yeah, locking in even low crime areas is HIGHLY recommended.

Lastly, has anyone had any experience with Onguard locks? Are they good quality or are they worthless junk? I'm just curious, as I see them on Nashbar and REI. In fact, I think Nashbar dropped Kryptonite completely.

Onguard is widely regarded as pretty reputable.

Check this list for the Sold Secure rating:

http://www.soldsecure.com/Leisure.htm

The "Abus" lock has become somewhat of a "cult" item in the USA, because it is so difficult to find. Each April, the editors of "Cycling Plus" test bike locks. No Abus U-lock has done better in the tests than the Kryptonite New York 3000. But, some Abus locks have done worse. Even, MUCH worse.

Because the New York 3000 is in every good bike shop in America, it is not going to become a "cult" item. But, it remains the best bike lock sold in America that is readily portable (weighing only four pounds...compared with the eight pound locks that can provide equal security).
If I'm not mistaken in the last test Cycling Plus tested one of the mid-range Abus U-locks. Is it really fair to compare a top of the line lock against a middle of the road one?

I'd like to see a comparison of the Abus Granit 54 U-lock against the Kryptonite NY3000. The Abus has a much larger shackle than the Kryptonite, allowing you to lock up to a grater number of places.

As for me I use an Abus Granit Extreme Plus 59 chain. It's heavy, but part of the reason I ride is fitness. I feel secure leaving my bike in the city centre with this lock.

There's something to the idea of buying an off market lock.
Bike thieves often figure how to break one specific lock or type of similar locks then look for that lock.
Having an Albus might give some of the more novice thieves a hard time.

After all didn't we just go through the everyone using the same brand of locks that thieves figured out how to pick thing?

My only complaint is that it doesn't come with any mounting hardware, although to be fair there's probably not enough freespace on my frame anyway... for now, I just bungee it to the rear rack. I'm thinking of trying a Topeak OS rack (http://www.topeak.com/products/rack_009.html), however, which looks like it can handle this a bit more elegantly.

Unfortunately, not only is the Topeak OS Rack unable to fit the Abus Granit 54 lock, it can't accomodate my Arkel panniers either... not without completely removing the locking mechanism, at least. So much for that idea. :(

i was just wondering what kind of locking schemes you all used. ..... anybody use the krypto new york chain lock?
My utility bike came with a frame mounted lock that clamps the rear wheel. I use that in low risk environments because it is quick. It just prevents some joker from
hopping on the bike and riding off. I might use it at the farmer's market or when
it is also locked in a storage room at work. I lug the krypto new york chain for any
street parking where the bike will be out of my sight even for a minute. I lock it to
something solid immovable with the new york chain. I like the chain better than
a U lock because I can get it around more things. Sometimes it is hard to find bike parking in my neighborhood.

I use a NY3000 ulock to secure the frame and a cheapie cable to secure the front and rear wheels. The rear wheel also has the security of a built-in lock (don't know what it's called, it came with my Trek T80).

Are combination locks no good?

Are combination locks no good?

I wouldn't say no good, but usually less good than key locks.

Here's a bit on interesting insight.
I was surfing one night and tripped across a couple of websites on How To Steal A Bike, how to pick locks, and lock breaking.

Veeeery interesting. (yes there are websites for this, no you can't have them)

One of the 'tactics' that seems popular (it was kind of suggested) was to buy a popular lock and take it home and practice picking it. Once a thief is proficient, then go out riding on a bike (easy excuse to hang around bike racks) and find someone using that lock. They then sit locking up their bike until you leave, pick it, steal it and ride it to their vehicle or stash, then walk back to thier bike.
Or (a simple one i'm conviced happed to me, luckily i cross locked) thief x follows see rider with combination cable riding down the street. Follows rider and locks up next to him/her while watching you lock up. They see the position of the tumblers. (They don't need to see the actual combo, just the relative position to the other tumblers. Most people carry a combo lock just one number off. If a thief can see that starting point it only takes a couple minutes to set the lock to the number they saw, then change each tumbler in sequence one or two up or down. If they see the back of the tumbler when they lock it they can open it in seconds. Just set the number they saw then rotate all tumblers in unison till the lock opens.)
The site also talked about special tools and practicing with a lock. One thief describes buying several of the same expensive lock and practacing all day in his garage with various tools until he found a quick way of breaking it. Then he'd find any bike with that lock and pop it.

The moral, always carry two locks.
If you see the combo your still fooled by my mini u
If you're a master at breaking my mini u, you still have to waste time on my cable.
If you can break a NYC chain in 30 seconds, the same technique might not work on a braided cable combo lock.
And unless the thief is targeting your specific bike (very unlikely) even the thief that can break your two locks, and has both tools with him, and has the time to spend/ risk on two locks, they'll move onto the easy break.

My new favorite lock... 3 braided kryptoflex cables wrapped in kevlar and magnesium ribbon locked with abs foam wrapped mini-ulock AND a motorcycle disk brake lock wrapped in fine steel wire. Try snipping, cutting, prying or torching THAT!
AHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa ehem.
(sorry)

The "Abus" lock has become somewhat of a "cult" item in the USA, because it is so difficult to find. Each April, the editors of "Cycling Plus" test bike locks. No Abus U-lock has done better in the tests than the Kryptonite New York 3000. But, some Abus locks have done worse. Even, MUCH worse.

Because the New York 3000 is in every good bike shop in America, it is not going to become a "cult" item. But, it remains the best bike lock sold in America that is readily portable (weighing only four pounds...compared with the eight pound locks that can provide equal security).
That is an unfair comparison as Cycling Plus tested a mid-range Abus against a top of the line Krypto. I'm sure the top of the line bicycle (not motorcycle) lock from both companies is adequate to protect most bicycles.

We use a MasterLock U-lock, a MasterLock Python cable lock, and a KryptoFlex cable interwoven with both. At least the would-be thief will be busy for a bit, and perhaps that's deterent enough for our purposes since we've decided we aren't letting the bikes out of sight for longer than five minutes. Also, anything detachable comes with us. We've already lost our headlights and have had to replace them, and that's not going to happen again.

Question: How do seatpost leashes work? Can't find any info on how one attaches them! Thanks.

-Rob

I've had my seatpost leashes attached at the bike store. One was looped through on both ends (I am not sure how they did that) and the other was looped through at the seat stays, then the seat-end was clamped in the saddle clamps. So in order to remove the seat from the seat leash you'd have to wrench open the saddle fixer bolts. (forgive my technical jargon! :))

I had a Terry saddle with a hole through the middle for a while, and I would run my cable through it as well as the wheel.

btw I use a Krypto (new) Evo lock and a Kryptoflex cable. On campuses or in busy downtowns for long periods of time I will use a NY3000 u-lock instead.

It's easy to break almost any lock in seconds. I've witnessed a guy pour liquid nitrogen on a heavy motorcycle U-lock and smash the metal to shards with a sledgehammer (the guy was my university physics teacher trying to free his bike from the post after having lost his keys by the way, nothing shady).

My approach to locks is that any of them is good enough to protect any bike when running a quick errand, and good enough to lock a very cheap bike for the day. I own a cheap bike that's not worth the volume of air it displaces, and its low value is almost theft protection enough. I just lock it to prevent drunkards from buggering off with it. With an expensive bike, I always find ways to get it inside a secure place or stay close by.

At any rate, over here it's very common to see bare frames locked to posts with a very strong (and otherwise unharmed) lock, and the rest of the componentry gone, so why bother :)

I had a Terry saddle with a hole through the middle for a while, and I would run my cable through it as well as the wheel.


Aahh! My saddle has a 'comfort void' as well! I'll have to try that, thanks!
:D

What is the number one, toughest bike lock?
As you are in Germany look at the Abus line of motorcycle locks. I use an Abus Granit Extreme Plus 59 chain/lock combo. I park what is one of the nicer bikes I've seen in Riga in the city center all day without a worry. I also use Pitlock (http://www.pitlock.de) locking skewers for my wheels.

http://www.abus.de/images/prod/zweirad/Motorrad/5912.jpg