Stop for this light?

[JohnBrooking]

So here's the setup. I went through this intersection today, not on my normal route. The blue arrow is me, approaching this T intersection with a stoplight. There was a good 7-8' wide shoulder, not a bike lane, but still with a regular white line, so I was comfortably in the shoulder, not the car lane. As I approached, the light turned red. There were cars coming from the left, the leg of the T, waiting to turn left into the direction I was going. I was slowing, but then I thought "Do I really need to stop?" Legality aside, from a purely safety standpoint, I'm in my "lane" and the the cars have their own, and the likelihood of them veering into my lane and hitting me as they turn, either accidently or on purpose, is pretty small. But maybe it would be best to stop anyway, out of courtesy if not legality.

So I thought it'd make a good philosophical discussion for this forum. Before I tell you what I did, I'd like to hear what you think, and why.

[Laika]

Not a chance I would stop. say what you like about my outlaw ways, but that light is clearly placed to facilitate the flow of motor vehicle traffic off the base and onto the bar of the "T" and there isn't any reason to stop, provided you're i no danger and not impeding motor vehicle traffic. Of couse, I'm a dangerous rebel and ought to be stopped. ;)

[twahl]

Guess I'm the lone ranger here. I'd stop. I don't consider the shoulder to be a bike lane. If there was no traffic coming from the left, I'd probably blow it, but with traffic coming, I'd stop, if for no other reason than to promote in the minds of drivers that I am following the same rules they are. As an aside...imagine yourself 20 yeards back with two cars in front of you. The one in front wants to turn left at that intersection, and you are going to go by on the right, in the shoulder lane. Guess what? The driver of the second car is going to go by in the shoulder lane too. Too bad he didn't see you.

I try to avoid shoulders at all times, it's just not the safe place to be unless there's some rather odd circumstances.

[JavaMan]

I think I actually stopped for one of those by mistake!!! :D

...Must not have been paying attention...

[Bekologist]

I think the light applies to bicycle traffic as well, and you are supposed to stop. However, at stops like that I usually yield to the traffic, and pull thru in sync so I'm coming thru in the spacing between two of the cars, or after the line of cars has gone thru the light if traffic's rippin.

[Robert Gardner]

If the white line is marking the edge of the road without a curb it is called a "Fog Line" to prevent you running off the road at night or in a fog. Technically you may not be on the road way if you are on the off road side of that line.

[Helmet Head]

After stopping and making sure it's clear of pedestrians, I might consider proceeding, slowly, in the shoulder, at ped speed (4-5 mph), until I was through the intersection.

[Spider]

Yeah, I used to ride through an intersection like that. This street had bike lanes too. Usually, I would run the red, but carefully. If you blow through the light at full speed, it kind of freaks out the drivers turning left onto the street. There was also a lot of pedestrian traffic at this intersection, so I had to be darn sure nobody was trying to cross. If there was too much going on, I would treat the light as a stop sign, then go when things cleared up. If there wasn't much traffic, I would go through it carefully.

[Hawkear]

What if it were a bike lane? I encounter several of these on my commute, and I stop occasionally, and go slowly through them (after making sure no pedestrians are crossing).

[djbrod]

I have a similar situation on my commute and I stop.

[Anthony King]

[T]hat light is clearly placed to facilitate the flow of motor vehicle traffic off the base and onto the bar of the "T" and there isn't any reason to stop, provided you're in no danger and not impeding motor vehicle traffic.

You just summed up my disposition to all traffic lights.

I find it hard to answer this question. If I didn't think I'd confuse any of the drivers making a left turn I'd go. It's hard to tell from the line drawing. I'd have to have been there, though if I was I'd probably be in the lane, not the shoulder, so I'd stop in that case.

[becnal]

I would treat it as a yield sign, also watching out for pedestrians. You never know if the Pedestrians have a green light.

[tippy]

... Technically you may not be on the road way if you are on the off road side of that line.

Florida's traffic law states that anything outside the white line is consider shoulder is NOT a lane of traffic. The traffic brochures state that a bike has a right to be on the roadway but highly encourages cyclist to take the shoulder (but not required) if practible [safe]. The only rules that are stated about riding on the shoulder is that the cyclist should ride with the flow of traffic as if it were a lane (but it's not).

Shoulders are big huge grey areas. They're not traffic lanes so traffic rules don't apply. They're not pedestrian pathways so pedestrian rules don't apply either.

If I approached the T, I would let the traffic pattern dictate my actions. I would definitely approach it with extreme caution but legalities (not aside) are very vague to non-existant. All the more reason to be cautious. If I didn't stop, I'd surely be going slow enough to stop if I had to.

d.tipton

[va_cyclist]

I'd probably stop and go if it was clear, or do a slow roll-through if nobody at all was around. The thing with lights is that you usually can't see what signal the other side is getting. You can infer it, of course, but unlike a stop sign, you can't be sure of who's got ROW and who doesn't. You only know when you do, and in this case, I don't think you do.

[vtjim]

If there were no cars around, I'd probably go through it. I'd slow down first, though.

I try to set a positive image for cyclists, from the cager's point of view. Probably doesn't do any good, but it makes me feel self-righteous. :)

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I try to set a positive image for cyclists, from the cager's point of view. Probably doesn't do any good, but it makes me feel self-righteous. :)
Diogenes was looking for a few good men like you.

[PaulH]

Red = stop; green = go. It is just that simple. Why should I even think about it?


Paul

[AndrewP]

I have an intersection like that on my way to work. There is a business on the right, so apart from watching for pedestrians I watch for cars on the road with the green going straight through into the business parking. I never stop for the red.

[sbhikes]

I plead the fifth.

[patc]

Well, I may or may not stop, but its a moot point because I never ride on shoulders. In Ontario the shoulder is not part of the road, so technically signals don't apply, but you also have no ROW. I prefer to interact as a vehicle so I avoid them. We don't have all that many shoulders outside the rural part of the city anyway, the preferred street design is to use an "urban cross section" with a raised curb.

[mpop]

I will admit I normaly stop at lights, but there is a T intersection like that here, and I do always blast it. It is slow speed (25MPH posted) don't have to worry about cars comming from the right, and it not like any one is going to get hurt.

[DonD]

I'd slow down as I approach the intersection, but probably wouldn't stop unless there was heavy traffic coming from the left or I saw that cars were taking the turn rather wide.

- Don

[-=£em in Pa=-]

I have an intersection exactly like that on my ride in every day. I never stop.
Just like anything else...if you take a second to think and dbl check your
surroundings you wont have a problem.

[skinnytirebiker]

If there were no cars around, I'd probably go through it. I'd slow down first, though.

I try to set a positive image for cyclists, from the cager's point of view. Probably doesn't do any good, but it makes me feel self-righteous. :)


I agree with you. I think it would freak out the cars turning left if you ran the light. If there are no cars turning left, certainly you could run it. I too try to set a good example.

[lala]

No, I would not stop, but I would keep my eyeball on the folks with the right of way.

[Linchpin]

I come across that very intersection on my way home! Though the street names are differant and it is in Michigan.
Stop, no
Slow down, yup

When I'm riding past it I am on the shoulder, one of the few places on my 12.5 mile commute home that has a shoulder and I use it to ride slower and stretch out some, maybe even take a drink of water. I'm 4-5 feet to the right of the fog line, thus I'm not in the road, thus I'm not being considered as traffic, thus I have no inclination of obeying a traffic control device at that time.
The good thing for me is that there is also a left turning lane in place so I don't have to worry much about motorists hitting the shoulder to pass someone turning left.

[oboeguy]

No cars from the left ==> run it every time. What's the point of stopping? The light is there for cars. Cars from the left ==> yield. Cops in the area ==> STOP!!! I'm not a scofflaw, but I don't want a cop to get medieval on me for doing something I think is not only safe, but also safer than hanging around a bunch of eager-beaver motorists. That's my red light theory in a nutshell: it's safer to run it in order to minimize the time in your ride for which you're riding with cars (better still, if the cars catch-up, they already know a bike is on the road -- OTOH that could be bad if they don't like you blowing the light :D).

[Stubacca]

I'd slow down as I approach the intersection, but probably wouldn't stop unless there was heavy traffic coming from the left or I saw that cars were taking the turn rather wide.

- Don
Same here.

[tippy]

Red = stop; green = go. It is just that simple. Why should I even think about it?
...What's the point of stopping? The light is there for cars...
Red=stop, green=go applies to vehicular traffic in TRAVEL lanes just like the walk/don't walk applies to pedestrians in a pedestrian lane/crosswalk. As a pedestrian, crossing the roadway at any other place is at your own risk. A cyclist on the shoulder is NOT in a travel lane so red=stop, green=go does not apply. Because of this, the cyclist must take their safety into their own hands (not sure when you wouldn't do this anyway) and not rely on lights to keep you out of harms way.

Bike lanes ARE vehicular traffic lanes for "special" vehicles. In this case, the red=stop,green=go rules DO apply and the cyclist is required to obey these rules.

Like I said earlier, the shoulder is a big huge grey area. The rules for riding there (especially at intersections) are vague to none existent however I would tend to follow the same rules the other vehicles were following whether required by law or not.

There's a lot of T-intersections in my area but have green arrows for the right straight thru and only the left lane turns red. You need to be even more watchful here. MV drivers when presented with the red light will all of sudden swerve to the right to get the green arrow lane even at the expense of causing a right laner to move right onto (you guessed it) the shoulder. Guess where you are at? Generally the left turners from the perpendicular lane are restricted from entering the right lane because that traffic is still moving. These are even freakier to drive through. Just because you made it passed the intersection doesn't mean it's over.

d.tipton

[caloso]

I have a similar intersection that I often pass through. Two added factors: the shoulder is marked as a bike lane; and there's nothing but a fence and drainage ditch on the righthand side so there's never anybody on that side.

I don't think I've ever stopped at that light. I realize it's probably an infraction and I'm willing to take my lumps and ticket if stopped.

[dynaryder]

No cars from the left ==> run it every time. What's the point of stopping? The light is there for cars. Cars from the left ==> yield. Cops in the area ==> STOP!!!


Ditto. I do this on my commute every morning.

[JohnBrooking]

Good point about drivers going my way swinging out into the shoulder. In this particular case, I was the only one going my way, and it's not a pedestrian area at all, not even any sidewalks, so there were no pedestrians. But I'm still tempted to stop for the purpose of setting a good example for the left-turning cagers, and not making them nervous. In fact, I actually did stop, although I think I pulled out again just as soon as all the cars were done turning. Which seems like a good compromise.