Busting Guys With Road Rage?

[dokushoka]

*deleted*

[teadoggg]

were there any witnesses other than you two? I don't know much about legal stuff, but maybe you could try to nail him for assult? talk to the cops, tell them what happened, and ride them (the cops) until they do something. this sorta bullsh*t has to stop, seriously.

best of luck. maybe you'll get to deal with a cop who's into cycling. i'm glad to hear you guys are all okay.

[timmhaan]

wow, that guy has a serious anger problem. give your uncle a call and see what he recommends. at the very least, you should add yourself to the police report as a witness. chances are nothing will happen, but you know never know. these things are good to have on record.

[absntr]

Oh man. Scary - glad all three of you are okay sand safe. It sounds like it could have been intentionally worse. This fella obviously had full intent on seeing something happen.

You're doing the right thing by filing a report. Do you know if his (not your roommate's obviously) report amounted to anything?

On a side note - did you manage to track down your girl's bike?

[absntr]

Aside from assault, is this even close to vehicular manslaughter or intent?

[BostonFixed]

Why don't you call your uncle and have him pull some strings for you, unless he hates cyclists.

[dokushoka]

Well, I actually made a 911 call that night as a witness, giving the cops a full description and license number, and my roommate is down filing a report right now, so I'm waiting to see what comes of it. After that, I want to call my uncle and see what he says. He's a good guy and will be happy to help, but I just wanted to see if there was anything else we could do to get the ball rolling.

[Hawkear]

Aside from assault, is this even close to vehicular manslaughter or intent?Probably not manslaughter (no one was killed), but definitely assault with a deadly weapon, maybe even an attempted murder charge.

[deadly downtube]

most of my bike friends would've started aiming for the windows and slashing tires as i try and calm everyone down lol... i figure, sure it'd feel good to drag him out of his SUV and give him some lessons in life, but he's just gonna fix his SUV and possibly road rage some innocent bicyclist.

going to the cops probably wouldn't do anything unless the guy left visible injuries. the only way he could get in trouble is if he has a prior record or is escaped from the mental asylum..
to get action taken you would have to tell the cops he threatened your life and you truly believed your life was in danger.

[r-dub]

unless someone is injured, the sfpd generally doesn't care when motorists assault cyclists (unless it happens in front of a donut shop, but that's another story), and they will tell you as much when you 'report' an incident. My partner was assaulted and my first fixie run over and destroyed a couple years back in front of 3 cops. They said they saw it, but weren't going to chase after the guy. When reporting at the station, I gave them the full description and license, and had two witnesses from the street with me. They said if they happen to pull the guy over they'll do something, but they wouldn't send an officer to his house or anything simple like that. *uck a whole bunch of the sfpd. Too busy harrassing folks who don't happen to be white or rich and assaulting folks for fajitas.

[anarchocyclist]

I hate to be the one to point this out, but if this jerk really is a cop, 999 times out of 1000 he'll walk, regardless if your higher-ranking uncle lends a hand or not.

[Judah]

Post his license plate # and a description of his SUV. Also, where did this happen?

[sillygirl]

If the police are not fully responsive, make sure to call sfbc and file a report with them as well. Bicycle violence statistics underrepresent actual violence because of cops' tendancy to not take reports or to brush off non-injury accidents. SFBC does alot to make the statistics more representative. Also, the more reports they get of police "abuse" the easier it is for them to fight it. Report #: 415/431-BIKE x303

[Mouton]

There's no way that guy was a cop, just a hot headed liar.

turns out he really is a cop? Silly me and my optimisim!

[filtersweep]

I'm beginning to believe it is better to get even- outside the law.

A law prof in Ohio was sentenced to 2 yrs of probation and community service after being found GUILTY of aggravated assault after she DID run down a cyclist- in front of witnesses, and largely admit to it to police. That is the best of all worlds- in that she actually was found guilty and hadn't plead down to some petty traffic offense. Aggravated means using a weapon. Imagine if she shot him in the foot to get his attention?

[weed eater]

some really good advice here, particularly about reporting to the SFBC. to any thinking person, this is assault with a deadly weapon, but that doesnt usually seem to play out. i have a theory that in order to treat cars like deadly weapons in cases like this, we (society) would have to admit that cars are, in fact, dangerous, and not the safe, cuddly, child-toting panaceas to modern life that they have been made out to be. astonishingly, drivers are often the ones who get treated as the victim in cases like this.

whew. ok, i'll stop. thank goodness you three are OK. lately when confronted with people like this, I pull over, get on the sidewalk, and let them exit my life as quickly as possible. agh. bad juju.

[dokushoka]

*deleted*

[steaktaco]

all I can say is – if I ever get a hold of that guy's email address, I'd submit it to porn sites.

once I was crossing a bottle-neck of a bridge and, all of a sudden, felt an SUV's sideview mirror pushing me from behind. I looked at the guy, he looked back at me blankly, and then kept driving at the same speed. I had to untangle my bag to get free. oooo, I should've followed him home and started stealing his mail from then on to ruin his credit score.

[weed eater]

I'm beginning to believe it is better to get even- outside the law.

A law prof in Ohio was sentenced to 2 yrs of probation and community service after being found GUILTY of aggravated assault after she DID run down a cyclist- in front of witnesses, and largely admit to it to police. That is the best of all worlds- in that she actually was found guilty and hadn't plead down to some petty traffic offense. Aggravated means using a weapon. Imagine if she shot him in the foot to get his attention?

is this the prof who ran down the guy because he was in her way and she was in a hurry to get to some recreational cycling trail to go for a ride?

[steaktaco]

Jordan just got back from the SFPD. The guy taking the report quickly realized that he knew the guy who did this, and that, he was indeed, a cop. The guy took Jordan very seriously, and took a detailed report. He apologized profusely to Jordan, and when Jordan asked if this guy had a previously record of this kind of crap, the cop told him that he pretty much did. The dispatched that took my call also recognized the incident and included my call in the report.

Then the LT. came out and made Jordan tell him the whole story. Apparently he tried to intimidate Jordan into changing his story. When Jordan wouldn't back down, the LT. said that the charge is attempted assault with a deadly weapon. This guy is gonna get some serious **** for this.

White Ford Explorer
plate no. 3nwj435
His name is Ron

Be careful if you see this guy, please. He has serious issues.

maybe ron never learned how to ride a bike.

[Judah]

Wow! Colin, you guys should call the SFBC with this info ASAP! Have Jordan tell them what happened at the police station. Someone with such obvious anger issues should NOT be a cop.

Make a stink about it, this is serious stuff, you have an off-duty cop bullying people and using his cop-status to back him up. Then you have the Lt. at the station trying to pressure people to change their stories to protect the @sshole. Plus, you have documentation and witnesses. Come on guys, make a difference, you'll be my heros, and thus entitled to anything in my box of spare parts. :p :D

Also, thanks for posting the info for us. I will look out for this guy.

[anarchocyclist]

There's no way that guy was a cop, just a hot headed liar.

turns out he really is a cop? Silly me and my optimisim!Just more evidence that that particular profession draws hotheads and turns them into liars. In my experience, that is: YMMV.

[dokushoka]

Wow! Colin, you guys should call the SFBC with this info ASAP! Have Jordan tell them what happened at the police station. Someone with such obvious anger issues should NOT be a cop.

Make a stink about it, this is serious stuff, you have an off-duty cop bullying people and using his cop-status to back him up. Then you have the Lt. at the station trying to pressure people to change their stories to protect the @sshole. Plus, you have documentation and witnesses. Come on guys, make a difference, you'll be my heros, and thus entitled to anything in my box of spare parts. :p :D

Also, thanks for posting the info for us. I will look out for this guy.

We're on it. Jordan is really fired up now.

[Terror_in_pink]

Sorry about your run-in, aggressive drivers suck.

Sorry to stray from the subject but while everyone is talking smack about cops (and you'll usually hear me complain about this too) hear this out.... While i was in LA riding with the LA gears (bike gang), we were riding through sunset on the strip, there was thick traffic and about 30 of us had taken a lane, a cop parked in the middle of the street picked up his loudspeaker and said "Go, Bike gang! Go bike gang!" They can be cool too ya know.

[Leviathan]

is this the prof who ran down the guy because he was in her way and she was in a hurry to get to some recreational cycling trail to go for a ride?


That was actually in Dallas.

[wangster]

That cop must've been smokin some herb on his break... I'd have to say that in general cops around hollywood tends to be punks. I've met a couple of chill ones, but the majority are still pricks. Cops on the westside of LA tends to be more mellow and easier to deal with because you don't need to deal with them at all. Either way, TIP is right, once in awhile cops can be pretty cool.

[wangster]

Oh and by the way, I hope you guys get somewhere with that crazy cop...he should not have a job as a cop or anything involving him carrying a firearm.

[timmhaan]

or anything involving him carrying a firearm.

no kidding...that's a very scary thought. best not to think about that though.

[weed eater]

Sorry about your run-in, aggressive drivers suck.

Sorry to stray from the subject but while everyone is talking smack about cops (and you'll usually hear me complain about this too) hear this out.... While i was in LA riding with the LA gears (bike gang), we were riding through sunset on the strip, there was thick traffic and about 30 of us had taken a lane, a cop parked in the middle of the street picked up his loudspeaker and said "Go, Bike gang! Go bike gang!" They can be cool too ya know.

i've ridden in SF critical masses with bike cops. i guess that's one way to keep an eye on things!

[Maelstrom]

I have moved this to advocacy to get more people chatting about it. Will get some good responses here too :)

Maelstrom

[Judah]

Oh yeah, there are quite a few SF cops who are very cool, but the cop who did this is definitely not one of them. People with such issues should not be allowed to enforce the law, let alone carry a firearm. Sounds like he was trying to enforce his own "laws" and using the badge as his justification, then he was trying to get into a fight so that he could slap you with an "assaulting a peace officer" charge. That's BS.

[weed eater]

Oh yeah, there are quite a few SF cops who are very cool, but the cop who did this is definitely not one of them. People with such issues should not be allowed to enforce the law, let alone carry a firearm. Sounds like he was trying to enforce his own "laws" and using the badge as his justification, then he was trying to get into a fight so that he could slap you with an "assaulting a peace officer" charge. That's BS.

agreed.

[womble]

That was a seriously freaky story, and I'm glad you're making a stand on this- I hope you nail the guy.



He starts screaming about how we're breaking the law because we don't have lights (my girlfriend did, however) and that he couldn't see us. When I pointed out that he obviously did since he saw us well

One question, however. Does the above mean that two of the three of you were riding at night without lights? Not that this excuses the psycho behaviour, but it would be surprising for someone on this particular forum.

[dokushoka]

Two of us did not have lights and one of us did. It was on a well light street, however.

[womble]

Well lit streets or not, cyclists can still be surprisingly hard to see without lights. Hell, sometimes they're hard enough to see _with_ lights unless they are of the huge and flashing variety, and I cycle more than drive so I do keep an eye out for cyclists.

Hmm... I'm not sure if there's some kind of law in the US that requires cyclists to mount lights at night. If there is, the cop/his defense might try to use it.

That aside, get some lights!

[weed eater]

... it would be surprising for someone on this particular forum.

note that this thread started on the fixedgear/singlespeed forum and was moved to advocacy/safety

[womble]

Does this mean that fixed gear riders are psycho? :D

[powertoold]

In California, you're required to have front light and (rear light?) at night, but it doesn't mean that the officer is allowed to assault you if you didn't.

[dokushoka]

In California, you're required to have front light and (rear light?) at night, but it doesn't mean that the officer is allowed to assault you if you didn't.

Yeah I actually looked it up afterwards, and you indeed, required to have a light. Regardless, this guy was trying to run my friend down. Its one thing for an officer to try and educate to resolve a situation, its entirely another for an officer to create a situation...

[womble]

Yeah, I agree- the cop was clearly a nutter. Just bear in mind though that he's going to use every defense he can think of, and the lack of lighting will probably come up. So be prepared for it.

[bkrownd]

Sounds like a drunk to me. Too bad nobody was there to apply the breathalyzer.

[jrowe]

I'm sorry to hear about the run-in, but glad everyone was okay. It really sounds like you've handled everything the right way, particularly the initial incident when the cop got out of the car. You have tremendous self-discipline. I hope this guys gets his ***** nailed.

--Jeff

[CB HI]

You should check to see if SF has a civilian review board (a group of none police with oversight powers). If yes, make a complaint to them - of both the original offense, as well as the attempted obstruction of justice committed by the LT.

If not, make the complaints to the mayors office and to Internal Affairs.

[anders]

Yeah, I agree- the cop was clearly a nutter. Just bear in mind though that he's going to use every defense he can think of, and the lack of lighting will probably come up. So be prepared for it.

Lack of lighting is no defense for his behavior. I find it ridiculous that you even mention this. He used his car as a weapon to harass the cyclists and he could have killed them. He should lose his job and go to jail.

Read this thread for another example of a cop behaving badly:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=104611

[womble]

Look, I agree that it shouldn't be a defense. But I doubt that the legal system is set up to persecute the cop like we all want it to. Have you read the thread about the legal professor who deliberately knocked a cyclist (another lawyer, no less) off his bike and has a history of hitting pedestrians? She got off with community behaviour. I'd like this incident to result in something harsher for the cop, and will read further developments with interest.

In general though, I do regard riding at night without lights to be a less-than-sterling example of intelligence. Do you disagree with this?

[dokushoka]

Look, I agree that it shouldn't be a defense. But I doubt that the legal system is set up to persecute the cop like we all want it to. Have you read the thread about the legal professor who deliberately knocked a cyclist (another lawyer, no less) off his bike and has a history of hitting pedestrians? She got off with community behaviour. I'd like this incident to result in something harsher for the cop, and will read further developments with interest.

In general though, I do regard riding at night without lights to be a less-than-sterling example of intelligence. Do you disagree with this?

I'm quite intelligent, thank you. Let's keep in mind I just watched my friend get run down by an angry driver. I don't think I need someone insulting my, or his, intelligence at the moment. I live in a major city that is quite well lit at night. Its not like we were riding down a dark country road. Give me a break.

[Sasquatchula]

A little OT, but have cyclists attemted to database info (vehicle make, model, tag number etc.)just as a repository that can be checked by other cyclists? I.E. someone in a brown Studebaker, tag # 1234567, tries running me off the road. I want to see if this guy has done this before, and enter said tag number. Now, I know there are a lot of holes and this could be abused, but just curious.

[womble]

Sorry about that- I can understand that you're pretty upset about the incident. I was probably overreacting to Ander's knee-jerk reaction and confusing justice with reality, and I wasn't meaning to insult your intelligence.

Still, I think you're overestimating the effectiveness of street lights. But I'll leave this argument for another day.

[womble]

A little OT, but have cyclists attemted to database info (vehicle make, model, tag number etc.)just as a repository that can be checked by other cyclists? I.E. someone in a brown Studebaker, tag # 1234567, tries running me off the road. I want to see if this guy has done this before, and enter said tag number. Now, I know there are a lot of holes and this could be abused, but just curious.

That's an interesting idea. What would it be used for- would it hold any validity in a court?

[Dchiefransom]

some really good advice here, particularly about reporting to the SFBC. to any thinking person, this is assault with a deadly weapon, but that doesnt usually seem to play out. i have a theory that in order to treat cars like deadly weapons in cases like this, we (society) would have to admit that cars are, in fact, dangerous, and not the safe, cuddly, child-toting panaceas to modern life that they have been made out to be. astonishingly, drivers are often the ones who get treated as the victim in cases like this.

whew. ok, i'll stop. thank goodness you three are OK. lately when confronted with people like this, I pull over, get on the sidewalk, and let them exit my life as quickly as possible. agh. bad juju.

There is actually legal precedent as to a vehicle being a deadly weapon, but only if you're in a special category as a citizen. If he'd done that to a uniformed cop, he could have been shot dead.