Sincitycycler
06-20-05, 10:13 PM
Wouldn't spinning more help him out with the acceleration he lacks in the Alps? His lack of climbing punch seems to be what everyone is bagging on Jan these days...
Professional Cycling For the Fans - How come Ullrich likes to mash in the mountains?
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Jakey
06-20-05, 10:52 PM
You would think... but when you have ridden...successfully that way for so long... do you want to try to change and risk losing the ability you have?
doctorSpoc
06-20-05, 10:56 PM
accelerating with the pure climbers is not necessary... if a rider is disciplined and does his own pace and accelerates sensibly he can bring back the more explosive climbers as they settle into their regular pace... look at Salvodelli at the Giro. if a guy that is not explosive tries to go with the explosive guys he will.. explode... Jan is not an explosive climber and he is never going to be one. he needs to ride his race, based on his abilities and the way HIS body can best achieve the required end result. Just because another rider can get up a hill best by spinning doesn't mean that is the best way for everyone in the world to get up a hill... everyone is built differently and what works for one does not work for all...
doctorSpoc
06-20-05, 11:04 PM
think about this.. imagine that Lance had not returned to cycling after cancer and Jan was now working on his 8th TdF victory... would we be reading post like... why do all these guys spin up hills when if you can get up hills so much faster by mashing a big gear like Jan the 8 time winner of the TdF??
cedo
06-21-05, 05:15 AM
Yes, except it is well documented that spinning is more efficient on steep climbs and more than one masher has changed his style to emulate the spinners. Even if your body is different and your natural tendency is to ride one way, sometimes a conscious change in style can generate dramatic improvement. Perhaps, as great as Ullrich is, there is some stubbornness there too. "I won the TdF once mashing, I can prevail again."
doctorSpoc
06-21-05, 11:32 AM
carmichael (Lances coach), in his book actually doesn't agree with you about spinning being more efficient.. he actually says you use more total energy spinning than you do climbing at a lower cadence... and advise to be consious that you should make sure you feed and hydrate accordingly. he says, what spinning does is it kind of off loads the work from the legs to the heart and lungs (higher HR, more oxygen uptake)... your legs push with less force every revolution, but you actually use more total energy because you are using the full complement of your leg muscles more times a minute. he claims the advantage to spinning is that a greater portion of the work is done aerobically... so less lactic acid, less fatigue, more sparing of muscle glycogen... but you could imagine that for an individual there is really an optimal cadence (it's not faster is better) where they trade off the various factors based on THEIR physiology (efficiency, lactic acid build up, an induviduals natural ability to spin, ability to flush and buffer lactic acid etc.)... i'm not even sure that carmichael really understands what's going on, but for whatever reason some people go up hills faster spinning and some people go up faster at a lower cadence (maybe people like Ullrich just have a greater capacity to flush and buffer lactic acid than others so their optimal cadence for climbing is lower?). Ullrich came up in the East German system... something tells me they would have tested him a few times as a younster to determine what is the best way (cadence) for him to get up hills... they were pretty maticulous about stuff like that. climbing is a very mental thing as well and spining at a high cadence for long periods of time is very mentally taxing... there are so many factor that i really don't think you can make a blanket coment like spinning is better for everyone
plus.. it's a little more that winning the tour once.. he has a 1st and FIVE 2nd places and a fouth at the tour de france,1st tour of spain... the list goes on... i think it's pretty clear he is one of the best climbers in the world how many finished lower than him do you call good or great climber... bottom line... if it aint broke don't fix it.
plus.. it's a little more that winning the tour once.. he has a 1st and FIVE 2nd places and a fouth at the tour de france,1st tour of spain... the list goes on... i think it's pretty clear he is one of the best climbers in the world how many finished lower than him do you call good or great climber... bottom line... if it aint broke don't fix it.
timmhaan
06-21-05, 11:40 AM
jan must have an amazingly high percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers.
jbonus
06-21-05, 01:04 PM
I'm a big Jan fan. I respect Lance a geat deal. Lance reminds me of Michael Jordan. I'm from Chicago and I remember how Patrick Ewing and Charles Barkley could never get past Jordan. Clyde Drexler was lucky to get one while Jordan was retired in the mid-90s. Both Ewing and Barkley are members of the 50 NBA Greatest and they played in the Finals but they never won a ring. Jordan stood in their way. So it is with Lance and Jan, who won his only TDF in '97 before Lance got it going. But I don't think Jan will win after Lance retires.
doctorSpoc
06-21-05, 02:26 PM
I'm a big Jan fan. I respect Lance a geat deal. Lance reminds me of Michael Jordan. I'm from Chicago and I remember how Patrick Ewing and Charles Barkley could never get past Jordan. Clyde Drexler was lucky to get one while Jordan was retired in the mid-90s. Both Ewing and Barkley are members of the 50 NBA Greatest and they played in the Finals but they never won a ring. Jordan stood in their way. So it is with Lance and Jan, who won his only TDF in '97 before Lance got it going. But I don't think Jan will win after Lance retires.
Jan is even more unlucky than that... he happened to be on Bjarne Riis's team in '96, so even though he might have given Riis a run for his money even then, he couldn't attack his team captain... his 1sh 2nd place at the tour.. he must have been thinking and been told... look Jan there will be plenty of Tours for you to win you are young.. doh!!
Jan is even more unlucky than that... he happened to be on Bjarne Riis's team in '96, so even though he might have given Riis a run for his money even then, he couldn't attack his team captain... his 1sh 2nd place at the tour.. he must have been thinking and been told... look Jan there will be plenty of Tours for you to win you are young.. doh!!
ShinyBaldy
06-21-05, 04:23 PM
Jan is even more unlucky than that... he happened to be on Bjarne Riis's team in '96, so even though he might have given Riis a run for his money even then, he couldn't attack his team captain... his 1sh 2nd place at the tour.. he must have been thinking and been told... look Jan there will be plenty of Tours for you to win you are young.. doh!!
in 96 - he was within two minutes of Riis... in 1997 - he won by a margin of over 9 minutes...
but those were the days before his knee problems
in 96 - he was within two minutes of Riis... in 1997 - he won by a margin of over 9 minutes...
but those were the days before his knee problems
skydive69
06-21-05, 06:02 PM
You would think... but when you have ridden...successfully that way for so long... do you want to try to change and risk losing the ability you have?
I guess if your definition of riding successfully means you get dropped in the mountains, than I guess he is one of the most successful riders ever! He is well practiced now to continue the practice in the TDF. Of course that will bring out the spitting, cursing Germans blaming Lance for beating their big gear mashing hero.
I guess if your definition of riding successfully means you get dropped in the mountains, than I guess he is one of the most successful riders ever! He is well practiced now to continue the practice in the TDF. Of course that will bring out the spitting, cursing Germans blaming Lance for beating their big gear mashing hero.
ShinyBaldy
06-21-05, 07:12 PM
I guess if your definition of riding successfully means you get dropped in the mountains, than I guess he is one of the most successful riders ever! He is well practiced now to continue the practice in the TDF. Of course that will bring out the spitting, cursing Germans blaming Lance for beating their big gear mashing hero.
.... how many TdFs have you actually followed? You seem to be in the delusion that Ullrich cannot climb. Yet oddly enough he has consistently climbed better than what? Everyone but Armstrong in the last 8 years of TdF history.
As for your references to spitting fans - most of them were drunk. Being German has nothing to do with it. I'm sure American fans aren't well represented by the instances of arena beer tossing, attacking players, etc
.... how many TdFs have you actually followed? You seem to be in the delusion that Ullrich cannot climb. Yet oddly enough he has consistently climbed better than what? Everyone but Armstrong in the last 8 years of TdF history.
As for your references to spitting fans - most of them were drunk. Being German has nothing to do with it. I'm sure American fans aren't well represented by the instances of arena beer tossing, attacking players, etc
doctorSpoc
06-21-05, 07:22 PM
I guess if your definition of riding successfully means you get dropped in the mountains, than I guess he is one of the most successful riders ever! He is well practiced now to continue the practice in the TDF. Of course that will bring out the spitting, cursing Germans blaming Lance for beating their big gear mashing hero.
think someone seriously needs a reality check... for more than a decade now there has been only one other person in the world better than Jan and in one of those years there has been no one in the world better than him... that doesn't sound too shabby to me??? what are you talking about???
think someone seriously needs a reality check... for more than a decade now there has been only one other person in the world better than Jan and in one of those years there has been no one in the world better than him... that doesn't sound too shabby to me??? what are you talking about???
cedo
06-21-05, 07:47 PM
bottom line... if it aint broke don't fix it.
I agree that Ullrich is an exceptional climber -- maybe not a mountain goat, but more than good enough that he loses almost no time, even on the steep stages.
Nonetheless, my opinion. If I had come in second to Lance as many times as Ullrich has, I would give serious consideration to emulating Lance, in lieu of slavishly adhering to my old style.
I agree that Ullrich is an exceptional climber -- maybe not a mountain goat, but more than good enough that he loses almost no time, even on the steep stages.
Nonetheless, my opinion. If I had come in second to Lance as many times as Ullrich has, I would give serious consideration to emulating Lance, in lieu of slavishly adhering to my old style.
skydive69
06-21-05, 08:00 PM
think someone seriously needs a reality check... for more than a decade now there has been only one other person in the world better than Jan and in one of those years there has been no one in the world better than him... that doesn't sound too shabby to me??? what are you talking about???
There is that old saying that you are only as good as your last effort. He looked like an old lady when the heat was applied on the climbs in the Tour de Suisse, and will be made to look the same in the mountains of France - much to my glee. Anything that distrubs the euro trash german fans delights me!
There is that old saying that you are only as good as your last effort. He looked like an old lady when the heat was applied on the climbs in the Tour de Suisse, and will be made to look the same in the mountains of France - much to my glee. Anything that distrubs the euro trash german fans delights me!
skydive69
06-21-05, 08:06 PM
.... how many TdFs have you actually followed? You seem to be in the delusion that Ullrich cannot climb. Yet oddly enough he has consistently climbed better than what? Everyone but Armstrong in the last 8 years of TdF history.
As for your references to spitting fans - most of them were drunk. Being German has nothing to do with it. I'm sure American fans aren't well represented by the instances of arena beer tossing, attacking players, etc
Well, I am sure he will continue his historical performance vis-a-vis Lance. As far as your assesment of the german fans, did you give them sobriety tests? I wonder how you happen to know that THEY (and "they" represents a hell of a lot of spitters and cursers) were drunk? Perhaps some of those arena beer tossers will come to the tdf this year and let a few lugis fly in Ullrich's direction!
As for your references to spitting fans - most of them were drunk. Being German has nothing to do with it. I'm sure American fans aren't well represented by the instances of arena beer tossing, attacking players, etc
Well, I am sure he will continue his historical performance vis-a-vis Lance. As far as your assesment of the german fans, did you give them sobriety tests? I wonder how you happen to know that THEY (and "they" represents a hell of a lot of spitters and cursers) were drunk? Perhaps some of those arena beer tossers will come to the tdf this year and let a few lugis fly in Ullrich's direction!
ShinyBaldy
06-21-05, 08:11 PM
Well, I am sure he will continue his historical performance vis-a-vis Lance. As far as your assesment of the german fans, did you give them sobriety tests? I wonder how you happen to know that THEY (and "they" represents a hell of a lot of spitters and cursers) were drunk? Perhaps some of those arena beer tossers will come to the tdf this year and let a few lugis fly in Ullrich's direction!
apply the same reasoning - how do you know they are german? or european? did you check their passports?
oh? you weren't there?
you seriously have some issues if you are hoping that people will toss things at Ullrich. What's he ever done to you? Or are you just one of those armchair fans who get really into the sport - antagonize the opponents of your favorite and hope ill upon them?
apply the same reasoning - how do you know they are german? or european? did you check their passports?
oh? you weren't there?
you seriously have some issues if you are hoping that people will toss things at Ullrich. What's he ever done to you? Or are you just one of those armchair fans who get really into the sport - antagonize the opponents of your favorite and hope ill upon them?
Bécane
06-21-05, 08:28 PM
Some people spin ,some people mash.
Louison Bobet, TdF winner 1953, 54, 55, would mash hills on 47-23! :eek:
Louison Bobet, TdF winner 1953, 54, 55, would mash hills on 47-23! :eek:
ed073
06-21-05, 08:43 PM
Some people spin ,some people mash.
Louison Bobet, TdF winner 1953, 54, 55, would mash hills on 47-23! :eek:
Clavette (RIP) always insisted on a 44-tooth inner.
Louison Bobet, TdF winner 1953, 54, 55, would mash hills on 47-23! :eek:
Clavette (RIP) always insisted on a 44-tooth inner.
Bécane
06-21-05, 08:49 PM
Clavette (RIP) always insisted on a 44-tooth inner.
And Virenque on 40 or 41 IIRC.
And Virenque on 40 or 41 IIRC.
skydive69
06-22-05, 05:42 AM
apply the same reasoning - how do you know they are german? or european? did you check their passports?
oh? you weren't there?
you seriously have some issues if you are hoping that people will toss things at Ullrich. What's he ever done to you? Or are you just one of those armchair fans who get really into the sport - antagonize the opponents of your favorite and hope ill upon them?
Oh, it probably was Italians waving German flags, wearing German stuff, and letting the lugis fly. Have you ever listened to an interview with Lance on the subject or do you think the world is or should be what you want it to be? Oh, you don't pay attention to anything but your on bleatings?
oh? you weren't there?
you seriously have some issues if you are hoping that people will toss things at Ullrich. What's he ever done to you? Or are you just one of those armchair fans who get really into the sport - antagonize the opponents of your favorite and hope ill upon them?
Oh, it probably was Italians waving German flags, wearing German stuff, and letting the lugis fly. Have you ever listened to an interview with Lance on the subject or do you think the world is or should be what you want it to be? Oh, you don't pay attention to anything but your on bleatings?
sh_wn
06-22-05, 06:39 AM
speaking of which, What has LA said about it? I'm curious because I've seen some crazy stuff over in Europe...
Walter
06-22-05, 07:01 AM
A TdF victory, a Vuelta victory, 4 other TdF podiums. Many victories in many other races (I don't feel like looking up his Palmares). If Ullrich quit today he's had a career most riders in the history of the sport would've been quite proud of.
No, he can't beat LA in France but I don't see how that degrades everything else he has accomplished. The TdF is big but it's not the entire sport (my only complaint with the Armstrong legacy btw).
Btw if not for the "Eurotrash" we wouldn't have this sport to talk about and LA wouldn't have that race which has made him a celebrity and a multi-millionaire. Have you seen the newest Chris Horner Gatorade commercial? No? Wonder why? He sure won alot of US races....
:beer:
No, he can't beat LA in France but I don't see how that degrades everything else he has accomplished. The TdF is big but it's not the entire sport (my only complaint with the Armstrong legacy btw).
Btw if not for the "Eurotrash" we wouldn't have this sport to talk about and LA wouldn't have that race which has made him a celebrity and a multi-millionaire. Have you seen the newest Chris Horner Gatorade commercial? No? Wonder why? He sure won alot of US races....
:beer:
doctorSpoc
06-22-05, 07:10 AM
Oh, it probably was Italians waving German flags, wearing German stuff, and letting the lugis fly. Have you ever listened to an interview with Lance on the subject or do you think the world is or should be what you want it to be? Oh, you don't pay attention to anything but your on bleatings?
isn't this thread about how effective Jan Ullrich's climbing style is... you are a little off topic with your spitting Germans tirade. and what does that have to do with Jan anyway? i guess he set up a keg on the hill and paid a bunch of Germans to swear and spit on Lance??? you need to go start a thread about how bad German fans are but don't mention Jan's name 'cause i'm sure he was very embarrassed by the whole incident like i'm guessing most Germans were.
and take your meds... just kidding, but you need to relax a little..
isn't this thread about how effective Jan Ullrich's climbing style is... you are a little off topic with your spitting Germans tirade. and what does that have to do with Jan anyway? i guess he set up a keg on the hill and paid a bunch of Germans to swear and spit on Lance??? you need to go start a thread about how bad German fans are but don't mention Jan's name 'cause i'm sure he was very embarrassed by the whole incident like i'm guessing most Germans were.
and take your meds... just kidding, but you need to relax a little..
fishigan
06-22-05, 07:19 AM
I was checking out BBC this morning, "Basso says he does not think Ullrich is in good enough shape to challenge this year."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/4118122.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/4118122.stm
doctorSpoc
06-22-05, 07:33 AM
It's in French but here's a list of Jan's Palmarès... this is the smaller list, there is also a complete list...
1er = 1st
2eme = 2nd
etape = stage
Classement Général = general classification
monde = world
tour = tour etc, etc.
2005
2eme du Grand Prix des Cantons d'Argovie
3eme du classement général du Tour de Suisse (Classement Général)
1er de la 2eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Weinfelden-Weinfelden CLM Ind)
2004
5eme du Teag Hainleite
2eme de la 1ere etape du Tour d'Allemagne (Karlsruhe (Bad.-W.) - Karlsruhe CLM Ind)
1er du classement général du Tour de Suisse (Classement Général)
1er de la 1ere etape du Tour de Suisse (Sursee - Beromünster)
4eme de la 6eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Frutigen - Linthal)
1er de la 9eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Lugano - Lugano CLM Ind)
4eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
3eme de la 16eme etape du Tour de France (Valréas - Villard-de-Lans)
2eme de la 17eme etape du Tour de France (Bourg d'Oisans - L'Alpe d'Huez (CLM Ind))
3eme de la 18eme etape du Tour de France (Bourg d'Oisans - Le Grand Bornand)
2eme de la 20eme etape du Tour de France (Besançon - Besançon (CLM Ind).)
3eme du Tour du Latium
1er du Coppa Sabatini
5eme du Tour d'Emilie
2003
23eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 120 pts.
24eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 120 pts.
1er du Rund um Köln
5eme du classement général du Tour d'Allemagne (Classement Général)
2eme de la 6eme etape du Tour d'Allemagne (Bretten - Bretten CLM)
2eme de la 7eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Silvaplana-Silvaplana)
3eme de la 9eme etape du Tour de Suisse (à Gossau C.L.M.)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Paris)
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement général)
5eme de la 10eme etape du Tour de France (Bourg d'Oisans - Gap)
1er de la 13eme etape du Tour de France (Gaillac - Cap' Découverte)
2eme de la 14eme etape du Tour de France (Toulouse - Plateau de Bon)
3eme de la 16eme etape du Tour de France (Bagnères-de-Bigorre - Luz)
4eme de la 20eme etape du Tour de France (Pornic - Nantes)
3eme du Hew - Cyclassics Cup
5eme du Tour de Bochum
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
5eme du Tour de Nürnberger
2001
27eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 70 pts.
3eme de la 8eme etape du Tour d'Italie (Rieti - Montevarchi)
3eme de la 18eme etape du Tour d'Italie (Sanremo Circuito Dei Fiori)
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Dunkerque CLM)
5eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
4eme du Coupe Luk
2eme du Coppa Agostini
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
1er du Tour d'Emilie
1er du Championnat du Monde CLM
2000
23eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 70 pts.
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Futuroscope)
5eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
2eme du Coupe Luk
4eme du Les Trois Vallées Varésines
1er du Coppa Agostini
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
3eme de la 7eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Valencia-Morella)
1er du Jeux Olympique en ligne
2eme du Jeux Olympique C.L.M. Ind
1999
5eme de la 4eme etape du Tour de Bavière - Bayern - Rundfahrt (Pfarrkirchen EZ CLM Ind)
1er du classement général du Tour d'Espagne (Classement Général)
1er de la 6eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Béjar - Ciudad Rodrigo)
2eme de la 7eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Salamanca - Salamanca CLM Ind)
5eme de la 14eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Andorra - Castellar del Riu)
1er de la 21eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (El Tiemblo - Avila CLM Ind)
1er du Championnat du Monde CLM
3eme du Milan Turin
1998
68eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 20 pts.
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
1er de la 8eme etape du Tour de France (Meyrignac l'Eglise - Cor)
1er du Tour de Nürnberger
2eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
1997
26eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 70 pts.
4eme de la 1ere etape du Semaine Catalane (Lloret de Mar-Lloret de Mar)
5eme du Grand Prix Primavera
5eme de la 1ere etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Narbonne - Baraqueville)
1er du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
2eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Prologue à Rouen)
4eme de la 10eme etape du Tour de France (Pau - Loudenvielle Vallée du Louron)
1er de la 11eme etape du Tour de France (Luchon - Andorre)
1er de la 13eme etape du Tour de France (St-Etienne CLM Ind.)
2eme de la 14eme etape du Tour de France (St-Etienne - L'Alpes d'Huez)
2eme de la 15eme etape du Tour de France (Le Bourg d'Oisans - Courchevel)
3eme de la 16eme etape du Tour de France (Courchevel - Morzine)
2eme de la 21eme etape du Tour de France (DisneyLand Paris CLM Ind.)
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
3eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
2eme du Classement U.C.I.
1996
65eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 15 pts.
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
4eme de la 18eme etape du Tour de France (Argeles Gozost-Pamplona)
1er de la 21eme etape du Tour de France (Bordeaux-Saint Emilion CLM Ind)
3eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
1er = 1st
2eme = 2nd
etape = stage
Classement Général = general classification
monde = world
tour = tour etc, etc.
2005
2eme du Grand Prix des Cantons d'Argovie
3eme du classement général du Tour de Suisse (Classement Général)
1er de la 2eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Weinfelden-Weinfelden CLM Ind)
2004
5eme du Teag Hainleite
2eme de la 1ere etape du Tour d'Allemagne (Karlsruhe (Bad.-W.) - Karlsruhe CLM Ind)
1er du classement général du Tour de Suisse (Classement Général)
1er de la 1ere etape du Tour de Suisse (Sursee - Beromünster)
4eme de la 6eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Frutigen - Linthal)
1er de la 9eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Lugano - Lugano CLM Ind)
4eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
3eme de la 16eme etape du Tour de France (Valréas - Villard-de-Lans)
2eme de la 17eme etape du Tour de France (Bourg d'Oisans - L'Alpe d'Huez (CLM Ind))
3eme de la 18eme etape du Tour de France (Bourg d'Oisans - Le Grand Bornand)
2eme de la 20eme etape du Tour de France (Besançon - Besançon (CLM Ind).)
3eme du Tour du Latium
1er du Coppa Sabatini
5eme du Tour d'Emilie
2003
23eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 120 pts.
24eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 120 pts.
1er du Rund um Köln
5eme du classement général du Tour d'Allemagne (Classement Général)
2eme de la 6eme etape du Tour d'Allemagne (Bretten - Bretten CLM)
2eme de la 7eme etape du Tour de Suisse (Silvaplana-Silvaplana)
3eme de la 9eme etape du Tour de Suisse (à Gossau C.L.M.)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Paris)
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement général)
5eme de la 10eme etape du Tour de France (Bourg d'Oisans - Gap)
1er de la 13eme etape du Tour de France (Gaillac - Cap' Découverte)
2eme de la 14eme etape du Tour de France (Toulouse - Plateau de Bon)
3eme de la 16eme etape du Tour de France (Bagnères-de-Bigorre - Luz)
4eme de la 20eme etape du Tour de France (Pornic - Nantes)
3eme du Hew - Cyclassics Cup
5eme du Tour de Bochum
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
5eme du Tour de Nürnberger
2001
27eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 70 pts.
3eme de la 8eme etape du Tour d'Italie (Rieti - Montevarchi)
3eme de la 18eme etape du Tour d'Italie (Sanremo Circuito Dei Fiori)
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Dunkerque CLM)
5eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
4eme du Coupe Luk
2eme du Coppa Agostini
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
1er du Tour d'Emilie
1er du Championnat du Monde CLM
2000
23eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 70 pts.
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
4eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Futuroscope)
5eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
2eme du Coupe Luk
4eme du Les Trois Vallées Varésines
1er du Coppa Agostini
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
3eme de la 7eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Valencia-Morella)
1er du Jeux Olympique en ligne
2eme du Jeux Olympique C.L.M. Ind
1999
5eme de la 4eme etape du Tour de Bavière - Bayern - Rundfahrt (Pfarrkirchen EZ CLM Ind)
1er du classement général du Tour d'Espagne (Classement Général)
1er de la 6eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Béjar - Ciudad Rodrigo)
2eme de la 7eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Salamanca - Salamanca CLM Ind)
5eme de la 14eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (Andorra - Castellar del Riu)
1er de la 21eme etape du Tour d'Espagne (El Tiemblo - Avila CLM Ind)
1er du Championnat du Monde CLM
3eme du Milan Turin
1998
68eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 20 pts.
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
1er de la 8eme etape du Tour de France (Meyrignac l'Eglise - Cor)
1er du Tour de Nürnberger
2eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
1997
26eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 70 pts.
4eme de la 1ere etape du Semaine Catalane (Lloret de Mar-Lloret de Mar)
5eme du Grand Prix Primavera
5eme de la 1ere etape du Grand Prix du Midi Libre (Narbonne - Baraqueville)
1er du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
2eme de la 1ere etape du Tour de France (Prologue à Rouen)
4eme de la 10eme etape du Tour de France (Pau - Loudenvielle Vallée du Louron)
1er de la 11eme etape du Tour de France (Luchon - Andorre)
1er de la 13eme etape du Tour de France (St-Etienne CLM Ind.)
2eme de la 14eme etape du Tour de France (St-Etienne - L'Alpes d'Huez)
2eme de la 15eme etape du Tour de France (Le Bourg d'Oisans - Courchevel)
3eme de la 16eme etape du Tour de France (Courchevel - Morzine)
2eme de la 21eme etape du Tour de France (DisneyLand Paris CLM Ind.)
2eme du Championnat de Zurich
3eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
2eme du Classement U.C.I.
1996
65eme de la Classement Coupe du monde sur route avec 15 pts.
2eme du classement général du Tour de France (Classement Général)
4eme de la 18eme etape du Tour de France (Argeles Gozost-Pamplona)
1er de la 21eme etape du Tour de France (Bordeaux-Saint Emilion CLM Ind)
3eme du Grand Prix Breitling Karlsruhe
cedo
06-22-05, 07:34 AM
carmichael (Lances coach), in his book actually doesn't agree with you about spinning being more efficient.. he actually says you use more total energy spinning than you do climbing at a lower cadence... and advise to be consious that you should make sure you feed and hydrate accordingly. he says, what spinning does is it kind of off loads the work from the legs to the heart and lungs (higher HR, more oxygen uptake)... your legs push with less force every revolution, but you actually use more total energy because you are using the full complement of your leg muscles more times a minute. he claims the advantage to spinning is that a greater portion of the work is done aerobically... so less lactic acid, less fatigue, more sparing of muscle glycogen... but you could imagine that for an individual there is really an optimal cadence (it's not faster is better) where they trade off the various factors based on THEIR physiology (efficiency, lactic acid build up, an induviduals natural ability to spin, ability to flush and buffer lactic acid etc.)... i'm not even sure that carmichael really understands what's going on, but for whatever reason some people go up hills faster spinning and some people go up faster at a lower cadence (maybe people like Ullrich just have a greater capacity to flush and buffer lactic acid than others so their optimal cadence for climbing is lower?). Ullrich came up in the East German system... something tells me they would have tested him a few times as a younster to determine what is the best way (cadence) for him to get up hills... they were pretty maticulous about stuff like that. climbing is a very mental thing as well and spining at a high cadence for long periods of time is very mentally taxing... there are so many factor that i really don't think you can make a blanket coment like spinning is better for everyone[/B].
Thanks for the informative post. I was under the impression that spinning had been determined in the lab as more “efficient” than pounding. I thought that they had done studies to show that there is an optimal range for the human physiology in between true mashing, which requires too much muscular (anaerobic?) effort, and excessive spinning, where the legs are turning too fast to produce an appropriate amount of wattage for the amount of calories burned. Within that band (80 to 100 rpms?), some people might be optimized on the higher end (Armstrong?) or the lower end (Ullrich?), but everybody would want to spin a bit faster than was typical of riders in the olden days of racing where macho men put their bikes in a big gear and bullied their way up the mountainside.
Thanks for the informative post. I was under the impression that spinning had been determined in the lab as more “efficient” than pounding. I thought that they had done studies to show that there is an optimal range for the human physiology in between true mashing, which requires too much muscular (anaerobic?) effort, and excessive spinning, where the legs are turning too fast to produce an appropriate amount of wattage for the amount of calories burned. Within that band (80 to 100 rpms?), some people might be optimized on the higher end (Armstrong?) or the lower end (Ullrich?), but everybody would want to spin a bit faster than was typical of riders in the olden days of racing where macho men put their bikes in a big gear and bullied their way up the mountainside.
Sincitycycler
06-23-05, 02:46 AM
There is that old saying that you are only as good as your last effort. He looked like an old lady when the heat was applied on the climbs in the Tour de Suisse, and will be made to look the same in the mountains of France - much to my glee. Anything that distrubs the euro trash german fans delights me!
Can't believe that you're being this brutal to The Kaiser. I was reading a book about the TDF and it seems that Jan is more "human" than Lance. He's kind of like John Daly is to Tiger Woods: equally talented as but undisciplined.
Jan had kind of a drinking problem, his driver's license was suspended because of a DUI type offense, got nailed doing Ecstasy at a night club, and he cried when he thought he was going to lose his wife because he was screwing up so much, but she stayed with him. :)
One thing that Lance and Jan do have in common is that both of their fathers abandoned them as children...that sucks :(
P.S. Ullie can still drop your ass while riding a Schwinn Varsity...
Can't believe that you're being this brutal to The Kaiser. I was reading a book about the TDF and it seems that Jan is more "human" than Lance. He's kind of like John Daly is to Tiger Woods: equally talented as but undisciplined.
Jan had kind of a drinking problem, his driver's license was suspended because of a DUI type offense, got nailed doing Ecstasy at a night club, and he cried when he thought he was going to lose his wife because he was screwing up so much, but she stayed with him. :)
One thing that Lance and Jan do have in common is that both of their fathers abandoned them as children...that sucks :(
P.S. Ullie can still drop your ass while riding a Schwinn Varsity...
skydive69
06-23-05, 05:45 AM
Can't believe that you're being this brutal to The Kaiser. I was reading a book about the TDF and it seems that Jan is more "human" than Lance. He's kind of like John Daly is to Tiger Woods: equally talented as but undisciplined.
Jan had kind of a drinking problem, his driver's license was suspended because of a DUI type offense, got nailed doing Ecstasy at a night club, and he cried when he thought he was going to lose his wife because he was screwing up so much, but she stayed with him. :)
One thing that Lance and Jan do have in common is that both of their fathers abandoned them as children...that sucks :(
P.S. Ullie can still drop your ass while riding a Schwinn Varsity...
Actually, contrary to the tone of my post, I do like Jan. He is a fantastic racer and one of the best in the world - he apparently is also a nice guy. I'm just such a Lance fanatic - I get carried away, and start throwing barbs at the thought of someone who could unseat my hero! :D
Jan had kind of a drinking problem, his driver's license was suspended because of a DUI type offense, got nailed doing Ecstasy at a night club, and he cried when he thought he was going to lose his wife because he was screwing up so much, but she stayed with him. :)
One thing that Lance and Jan do have in common is that both of their fathers abandoned them as children...that sucks :(
P.S. Ullie can still drop your ass while riding a Schwinn Varsity...
Actually, contrary to the tone of my post, I do like Jan. He is a fantastic racer and one of the best in the world - he apparently is also a nice guy. I'm just such a Lance fanatic - I get carried away, and start throwing barbs at the thought of someone who could unseat my hero! :D
Grasschopper
06-23-05, 06:53 AM
speaking of which, What has LA said about it? I'm curious because I've seen some crazy stuff over in Europe...
What did Lance say about it? I was watching one of the 04 tour wrap ups OLN was replying recently or maybe it was an 05 build up show and they were talking to Lance about last year and this topic came up. On stage 17 where Landis and Lance were up in front with Ulrich, Kloden and Basso Lance wanted Landis to take the decent and win the stage. Landis took off, Ulrich jumped on his wheel as did the rest of the group so Landis wasn't going to win. Then Kloden attacked and took a huge lead and the comentators had given him the race. Lance says he said to himself "no way...not today...not a German" (That might not be exact) and goes for it closing and passing Kloden for the stage win. He said that after the L'Alpe d'Huez expierence with all the Germans spitting on him and cursing there was no way he was going to let a German beat him on that stage.
What did Lance say about it? I was watching one of the 04 tour wrap ups OLN was replying recently or maybe it was an 05 build up show and they were talking to Lance about last year and this topic came up. On stage 17 where Landis and Lance were up in front with Ulrich, Kloden and Basso Lance wanted Landis to take the decent and win the stage. Landis took off, Ulrich jumped on his wheel as did the rest of the group so Landis wasn't going to win. Then Kloden attacked and took a huge lead and the comentators had given him the race. Lance says he said to himself "no way...not today...not a German" (That might not be exact) and goes for it closing and passing Kloden for the stage win. He said that after the L'Alpe d'Huez expierence with all the Germans spitting on him and cursing there was no way he was going to let a German beat him on that stage.
skydive69
06-23-05, 09:27 AM
What did Lance say about it? I was watching one of the 04 tour wrap ups OLN was replying recently or maybe it was an 05 build up show and they were talking to Lance about last year and this topic came up. On stage 17 where Landis and Lance were up in front with Ulrich, Kloden and Basso Lance wanted Landis to take the decent and win the stage. Landis took off, Ulrich jumped on his wheel as did the rest of the group so Landis wasn't going to win. Then Kloden attacked and took a huge lead and the comentators had given him the race. Lance says he said to himself "no way...not today...not a German" (That might not be exact) and goes for it closing and passing Kloden for the stage win. He said that after the L'Alpe d'Huez expierence with all the Germans spitting on him and cursing there was no way he was going to let a German beat him on that stage.
That was one of the most exciting moments I have ever witnessed in bicycle racing. They had already assigned the win to Kloden, and Lance did the seemingly impossible - something he has often done.
That was one of the most exciting moments I have ever witnessed in bicycle racing. They had already assigned the win to Kloden, and Lance did the seemingly impossible - something he has often done.
Wurm
06-28-05, 08:32 PM
jan must have an amazingly high percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers.
Doesn't matter if they're "slow" or "fast", as long as they twitch when you need them.
Doesn't matter if they're "slow" or "fast", as long as they twitch when you need them.