Best tandam tire?

[alex_t]

Hello to all,

I was wondering if people could share their advice on what tires to suggest for a tandem (26" wheels) that does mostly road cyclo camping. I have recently been having a problem with side wall wear. I believe it is because the side wall protection (where the rim is supposed to sit) was getting caught on the rim during inflation and totally destroying the side wall rigidity. I have not been able to test this theory yet because it was only discovered last week-end. Advice on other solutions and tire suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Alex

[Mhendricks]

On our Raleigh Coupe we use Avocet FasGrip City w/kevlar 26 x 1.5. Slick tire with great rolling resistance. 1000 miles with a problem and going strong. About 80 lbs. PSI.

[cedo]

http://www.precisiontandems.com/arttiresbymark.htm

Try this link.

[will dehne]

We own a C'Dale Tandem. My weight was 240 lb. and we go on Wisconsin R to T which are lime stone and bumpy. The original equipment tires lasted a few hours.
The solution was top of the line Continentals with 80 PSI. No more flats for several years. Hope this helps.

[TandemGeek]

A good friend up in Virginia has posted his summary of results a few times on Tandem@Hobbes and it's a pretty comprehensive run down that you may find useful:




Here is our tire data. We currently use the Performance Fast City ST/K -
26x1.25 inflated to 110psi.

Our team weight is 280 plus the bike. We have used the following rear
tires:

Specialized Fat Boy's - 26x1.25 - slick, no kevlar, 400gm, $20 ,low rolling
resistance, lasted about 2200 miles (wore through to casing), but had about
4 flats.

Specialized Cross K - 26x1.25 - moderate tread, kevlar, 400gm, $28, moderate
rolling resistance, had a couple of flats and then replaced them after about
500 miles because the noise & rolling resistance was too high.

Avocet City/K - 26x1.25 - slick, kevlar, 400 gm, $33, low to moderate
rolling resistance, lasted 1200 miles (wore through to casing), no flats. I
have used these (26x1.5) on my ATB for several years plus several thousand
miles and never had a flat!! The main problem is the high costs.

Performance Fast City ST/K - 26x1.25 - semi slick, kevlar, 400 gms, $16-$20,
moderate to low rolling resistance. It is a blackwall and has a slight
tread, but a 1/4 inch smooth rib in the center. I just retired this sample
with 3002 miles on the rear wheel -- no flats. We did a 200 mile loaded
tour a while back without problems. I think it might be the best road tire
for the money. We inflate them to 110psi (rated at 90psi). We have used
the 1.5 version (no longer available) on both of our mountain bikes and
neither of us has ever had a flat on them. I would definitely give this
tire a try first - no connection with Performance:

http://www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=2314

One other note on the above tire - we did have a flat, but it was due to
melting the rim strip on an 8 mile descent without a drum brake (nothing to
do with the tire). That was my reason for replacing the tire. I was
concerned that there might be heat damage. I checked the tire when I
replaced it and could find no problems in the sidewalls or anywhere else
other than considerable wear.

Also available are the following:

Panaracer Pasela TG Compe Foldable Tire - 26x1.25 - light tread, foldable,
240gm, $25, moderate to low rolling resistance (?). I have one of these,
but haven't used it yet. Others like this tire. They've said it was thin
and fast, It looks like a good tire for the road. I can't comment on how
long it will last. It is foldable, so it is good for as a spare when
touring.

Ritchey Tom Slick - 26x1.0 - slick, 320gm, $18-$20, very low rolling
resistance. I haven't tried these, however, some folks have and have
reported good results, others bad. I believe this also comes in a 26x1.4
version.

The above are primarily road tires. Also, good tire fit may depend on your
rims. We are currently using a Velocity Deep-V. If you are doing
significant off road, we can't provide much help.

_~o __o
_`\<,`\<,_
(*) / / (*)

[turtlendog]

A couple thoughts:

I burned through a pair or Tom Slicks in short order when pulling a BOB Yak on my single. Wouldn't even think of putting them on the tandem for touring purposes (assuming a fairly comperable load).

I've been happy with the Bontrager Hard Cases that came on my Trek but have tried nothing else. We've got a couple thousand flat-free miles on them, and they seem to be wearing pretty well. They hold the road pretty well but are a little heavy. (I'm talking about 700c so YMMV)

All the LBS guys are impressed enough with Hard Cases choose them for their singles.

[stever]

re tyres
always a problem on tandems
we have settled on schalbwe marathon xr 1.9
not the fastest tyre on the planet but great for tours

we tried panaracer pasela's 1.5 but they wore out kinda quick

also with the schalbwe's they give a modicum of suspension due to width
heres a link
schalbwe tyres (http://www.biketrax.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b53s122p507&tbv=SCHWALBE_Marathon_XR_Tyre_ACCESSORIES_Tyres_-_General)

heres yours truly with tandem in krakow poland ready to go
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/7991/hotellge128zv.th.jpg (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hotellge128zv.jpg)




im missing a stoker... shes getting ready?????????? ....... ho hum must be familiar to other tandem "captains" :)


poland slovakia tour (http://www.polandtour.coolfreepage.com/index.htm)

[Janet]

Hi all. On this same subject, we seem to have problems with either the valve stem pulling out of the tube or the tube getting cut right around the valve stem. We try being very careful with removing the air hose from the valve when pumping up the tire, but I wonder if we are doing something wrong which is either causing the stem to pull out of the tube or causing it to get cut in that area. We also thought that maybe the nut that holds the stem in place on the rim is too tight - which would press the tube up into the rim hole too much and cause the cutting. Anyone else have problems like this and any ideas on how to remedy? Or are we just using cheap tubes?

[TandemGeek]

Anyone else have problems like this and any ideas on how to remedy? Or are we just using cheap tubes?

What brand/model rim do you have and what type of tubes are you using?

[TandemGeek]

Anyone else have problems like this and any ideas on how to remedy? Or are we just using cheap tubes?

What brand/model rim do you have and what type of tubes are you using?

[MichaelW]

To prevent damage to the valve, use a quality rim tape such as velox. Round off the edges of the valve hole with emery cloth.
When you put the tube back on, use the retaining nut on the valve to prevent it moving.
Put the tyre on then losen the nut and push the valve inside the rim a little to seat the tyre properly. Use the nut to pull the valve back out again.

[Steve Katzman]

Hello to all,

[snip] I believe it is because the side wall protection (where the rim is supposed to sit) was getting caught on the rim during inflation and totally destroying the side wall rigidity. I have not been able to test this theory yet because it was only discovered last week-end.[snip]
Alex

Alex,

I can't recommend any 26" tires, as we use only 700c's. However you might want to check that the brake pads (assuming you use rim brakes) are not rubbing the side walls of the tire(s). This can happen without your intervention as the brake pads wear. When this happens, mysterious side wall failures can occur. Just something to be aware of.

[Janet]

Hi TandemGeek, You're going to push me on this one. We have a Santana Arriva with I believe 700 c 48 spoke rims which from the Santana web site they say are Sun Rhyno rims. The tubes we have used several different types and I couldn't be sure which ones to tell you. I know that right now we are using some Giant brand tubes and they seem to have a better reinforced area around the valve stem. We have not noticed any stems pulling out of this kind but the kind we used before definitely pulled out. But like I said, we have also seen on the Giant tube that it got cut around the stem - almost like the retaining nut had kept it so close in to the tube that it was cut. So, the theory is that maybe the nut is just there as a guide rather than tightening it down to keep the tube really snug in that place. The tubes we use generally have threads on them to help hold the air line on to the stem. Our LBS suggested getting a smooth stem so that it isn't so hard taking the air line loose but the problem there is that it is more difficult keeping the air line attached as you put 120psi in. When we are finished pumping air, we are trying to carefully remove the air line but it is hard getting it loose and the stem is pulled or moved back and forth in the process - which might be why the stem eventually comes out of the tube. So, I thought that maybe we are just not removing the air line properly or there was some other "trick" we didn't know about. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help!

[Janet]

Thanks. I need to find this velox tape but what you describe sounds like it could be a help!

[TandemGeek]

When we are finished pumping air, we are trying to carefully remove the air line but it is hard getting it loose and the stem is pulled or moved back and forth in the process - which might be why the stem eventually comes out of the tube. So, I thought that maybe we are just not removing the air line properly or there was some other "trick" we didn't know about. Any thoughts?

You've identified the problem (in bold from your posting). The only tricks that I know include:

1. Spit into the pump's valve chuck before you install it on the tube's valve stem. It's gross but saliva does make chuck removal a bit less of a struggle.
2. Use tubes smooth stems which, as you note, sometimes cause certain valve chucks to blow-off during inflation.
3. Short of using smooth stem tubes, giving your threaded stems a few twists in emery cloth will cut-down the edges of the threads which will make chuck removal a bit easier while leaving enough bite to hold the chuck. (Note: Ditch the valve nuts)
4. Try using a different type of type of pump / valve chuck.

I had the same problem with my old-faithful Silca track pump when I switched over to deep section rims and 50mm valve stems. I solved it by purchasing a Blackburn TPS-2 pump (http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/11576-245_BLBTP1-2-Accessories-37-Pumps/Blackburn-TPS-2-Floor-Pump-offerIN050FO1.htm) in combination with using Wheels Manufacturing presta valve extenders (http://www.wheelsmfg.com/products.php?cat=access&prod=prestavalveext). The valve extenders probably aren't a viable option for you given that the RhynoLite is a box section rim. Regardless, since changing my equipment I haven't had a single valve leak whereas before they were rather common; usually pin-hole leaks that allowed us to ride about 20 miles before the tire became noticeably flat.

As for the valve hole, you would certainly want to check the inside of your rim at the valve stem hole for any sharp edges that might coincide with where your tubes fail. As noted above, smooth them down with some emery cloth. With regard to rim strip tape, Velox (image below) or a comparable brand of cotton rim strip tape is, IMHO, far superior to some of the alternatives -- noting that I have some of the alternatives. It costs about $2.50 a roll and is available from any decent bike shop or Etailers. As for valve nut placement, I can't help you there; haven't used one on my own bikes in 25 years.

http://www.unicycle.com/images/catalog/hardware/tires/veloxrimtape.jpg

[Janet]

Thanks, TandemGeek. You have been very helpful! We will try your suggestions and see what happens!

[ou98dtbiggs]

Well nashbar has a deal so I got 6 700c X 28c conti ultra 3000 for something like $10 a piece,and I got a set of ultra 2000 to compare for 13$ now that is savings$$$

[tornadobass]

With regard to rim strip tape, Velox (image below) or a comparable brand of cotton rim strip tape is, IMHO, far superior to some of the alternatives -- noting that I have some of the alternatives. It costs about $2.50 a roll and is available from any decent bike shop or Etailers. As for valve nut placement, I can't help you there; haven't used one on my own bikes in 25 years.

I just put this kind of tape inside my Burley's front wheel. About 2 miles from the end of a 35 mile rainy ride, we got a flat. There was a crack on the plastic rim liner over one of the spoke holes and I think the tube might have gotten pinched in there.

[TandemGeek]

I just put this kind of tape inside my Burley's front wheel. About 2 miles from the end of a 35 mile rainy ride, we got a flat. There was a crack on the plastic rim liner over one of the spoke holes and I think the tube might have gotten pinched in there.

Yup... 'When the newer materials eventually fail replace them with good-old Velox rim tape. The stuff lasts seemingly forever and if you're really careful you can even remove it to rebuild a wheel and then reinstall it once the wheel is finished.

[turtlendog]

I thought I should give you all an update on my experiences with Brotrager Race Lite Hard Cases. I cut one bad enough today to have to do an emergency replacment (but didn't puncture the tire). The glue that holds the 'tread' of the tire to the kevlar belt is failing, causing the 'tread' layer to bubble and come loose. I'm not too fond of that mode of failure since I love the corners.

[bockwho]

my lbs would only recomend a IRC tandem specific tire due to heat and wear length..

im running a 40 front dyad and a 48 rear dyad ...

the tires are 700 x30c

[TandemGeek]

my lbs would only recomend a IRC tandem specific tire due to heat and wear length..

Does anyone at your LBS do much tandem riding? The IRC is a "safe" recommendation but I can assure you that there are more options available to you.

The only constraint you'll face with the Dyad rim is tire width; although we have friends who run tires as narrow as 25mm on a Dyad, 28mm is a more suitable minimum and you can go as large as 41mm if you so choose. Sheldon Brown hosts a very good table for determining tire width compatibility, just be sure to remember that you base tire sizing on the inside rim width not outside: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html#width

As for tires, Mark Johnson has a very comprehensive article that, while clearly showing a bias towards Continental tires, may be of some benefit as you search for tire options that are ideally suited for your riding conditions, equipment, and team weight: http://www.precisiontandems.com/arttiresbymark.htm For larger diameter tires, Schwalbe are definitely worth a look and don't get a lot of press given their somewhat limited distribution channels. However, like Vredestein's tires, it may be worth the effort to find someone who can special order the size and grade tires that suit your needs, noting that the average LBS will rarely have any tires that are ideal for most tandem teams.

[Buckshot77]

Does anyone have an updated recomendation to add to this list? I want to replace the 26x1.95 hardcase tires on our T900 with something a little lighter and with a lot less rolling resistance. All of our riding is on paved trails with gravel road crossings being the only offroad. I'm planning to go with the fastcity as recommended above unless someone else has a good recommendation.

Thanks,
Rick

[dbohemian]

I currently have the Schwalbe Marathon racer 1.5 on my tandem and they seem very nice. Good ride and nice stick in the corners. I have only 500mi on them so far so I cannot comment on longevity but so far they still have the original mold marks on them.

D Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles

[masiman]

I like our Soma New Express (http://www.somafab.com/tires.html) tires. They are not the highest pressure (80 psi) but they have given very good wear. I think they have about 1200 miles and are still going strong. I expect over 2k but less than 3k with how they look.

[zonatandem]

Janet:
Next time you put a tube in your tire, do the following:
Cut a small piece ('bout 1") oval-sized section from an old inner tube. Puncture a small hole (with scissors) in center of that rubber patch. Slip it over the valve stem, thereby creating a bit of a rubber buffer zone between tube and rim/hole. Also just finger tighten that knurly knob . . . should help.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

[OldVelo]

Hi Buckshot77, we've clocked up approx 4000 miles on Panracer pasala tourguards ( 26 x 1.75) and they are still going strong. They are rather free rolling, steer well and give a little on the side walls so give a fairly good ride.

Oh, yes we ride on paved roads and rough tow paths. So far not a single puncture either! ( if that doesn't jinx them nothing will!)

Jon

[Leaky Gas]

Two recommendations:

Smooth pavement, long high-speed rides, credit-card touring -- Continental Gatorskin 700x28s.

Less-than-ideal pavement, in the city, occasional segues to the gravel-path Hike-and-Bike:
Specialized All-Condition Armadillo 700x28s.

[Leaky Gas]

Sorry -- just saw the 26x1.75 stipulation(!)

[Buckshot77]

Well we dropped the hammer and order a set of Performance Fast City ST/K - 26x1.25 these last night along with some new tubes since we're dropping from a 1.90 tire. Should make one heck of a difference on the riding. I'm excited to see how they do. I'll keep you guys posted as soon as we rack up some miles on them, but at 20-30 miles per week on the tandem it'll probably take us a while to get any real feedback on them.

Rick

[Buckshot77]

OK as an update, we finally got out on the tandem for an actual ride other than putting around the neighborhood. We put on 23 miles last night and the tires are great. I'm sure it also helped quite a bit that we went from a 26x1.95 to these at 26x1.25, but we definitely like the difference and really didn't notice any appreciable change in stability except for some really loose gravel at one road crossing. I think that had more to do with the fact the gravel was 3-4" deep than anything else though.

Rick

[JanMM]

good decision. I put a pair of those (Performance Fast City ST/K - 26x1.25) on our KHS Tandemania Comp last year and it made things noticeably zippier. Previous tires were 1.5" 70psi.