Mountain Biking - Upgrading from Shimano Alivio -> LX

Right now I have a 8-speed Alivio on my brusier and I want smoother shifting, so I thought about the better derailluers. Will it fit on my bike? Or will it not because of my shifters, or do I need a bigger cassette? What should I do?

Thanks in Advance.

The derailleur won't care how many gears it's shifting.

Whether the upgraded derailleur will make a significant difference is another question! :)

Ok...?

As long as the derailer has more possible gears (or equal) as your shifters do, your ok.
Most say 8 or 9 gears, or 7 or 8.
I might be wrong (probably am) but i thought the new LX series was just a new name for the cheaper series. You should probably go for xt atleast. Just order my XT upgraded from either alivio or deore, i forget.

As long as the derailer has more possible gears (or equal) as your shifters do, your ok.
Most say 8 or 9 gears, or 7 or 8.
I might be wrong (probably am) but i thought the new LX series was just a new name for the cheaper series. You should probably go for xt atleast. Just order my XT upgraded from either alivio or deore, i forget.


LX is one step above the Deore and is the first level of "Race" level components, LX, XT and then XTR. It is a very nice product. I love mine on my NRS.

You aren't going to notice improved shifting going from Alivio to LX unless: the Alvio is misadjusted or worn out.

As long as the derailer has more possible gears (or equal) as your shifters do, your ok.
Bulldust.

It doesn't matter how many 'speeds' the derailleur is asked to shift, so long as it's range of motion (the travel between it's limits) can cover all the gears.

A new, more expensive derailleur is often not the ticket to better shifting. Spend some time to setup and adjust your current system before spending unnecessary money. http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQrindx.shtml

The more accurate answer is rear derailleurs are designed to move from big to small cassette cogs and remove slack from the chain while doing so. all 9 sp compatible derailleurs will work with lower systems (ie 7 and 8 sp). 8 sp derailleurs will also work with 9 sp systems but cannot remove as much chain slack as 9 sp derailleurs. 8 sp systems and early 9 sp systems can remove up to 39 teeth worth of slack while current Mega 9 derailleurs can remove 43 Teeth worth of slack. to determine how many teeth worth of slack needs to be removed 1) add # teeth on small chain ring + # teeth on small cassette cog 2) add # teeth on large chain ring + # teeth on large cassette cog 3) subtract #1 from #2 and thats the number of teeth your rear derailleur will need to remove. Current Mega 9 systems have 43 teeth of slack (44+32)-(22+11) = 76 - 33 = 43 teeth. I hope that helps...

wow, extra information. So i shouldn't upgrade, won't do much for my Alivio. Right?

Bulldust.

It doesn't matter how many 'speeds' the derailleur is asked to shift, so long as it's range of motion (the travel between it's limits) can cover all the gears.

A new, more expensive derailleur is often not the ticket to better shifting. Spend some time to setup and adjust your current system before spending unnecessary money. http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQrindx.shtml

Thnx for the website.

You aren't going to notice improved shifting going from Alivio to LX unless: the Alvio is misadjusted or worn out.

Bulldust (to qoute Stubacca). I have LX on my brand new NRS properly adjusted and setup. My brother-in-law has Deore on his brand new Cannondale properly adjusted and setup and we BOTH notice a big difference between LX and just regular Deore.

You will notice a difference but only if you change the shifters to LX as well as the Derailleur.

8 sp derailleurs will also work with 9 sp systems but cannot remove as much chain slack as 9 sp derailleurs. 8 sp systems and early 9 sp systems can remove up to 39 teeth worth of slack while current Mega 9 derailleurs can remove 43 Teeth worth of slack. to determine how many teeth worth of slack needs to be removed 1) add # teeth on small chain ring + # teeth on small cassette cog 2) add # teeth on large chain ring + # teeth on large cassette cog 3) subtract #1 from #2 and thats the number of teeth your rear derailleur will need to remove. Current Mega 9 systems have 43 teeth of slack (44+32)-(22+11) = 76 - 33 = 43 teeth. I hope that helps...Actually that's highly technical bunk in regards to this conversation.

The only difference here is range of motion. You can get an 8 speed derailier to shift a nine speed system perfectly as the cassette wdth is exactly the same.

It isn't about chain slack or anything else because that's determined by cage length not how many speeds it was designed for. They had 11 and 34 tooth cogs on 7 speed cassettes and they had 44 and 22 tooth triples way back when as well

Thnx .
http://img195.echo.cx/img195/5421/textspeak7hi.jpg
I will break you of this habit
In regards to the question the SHIFTERS will play a bigger role in smoothness and precision than the derailieurs.

You will notice a difference but only if you change the shifters to LX as well as the Derailleur.

What kind of difference?

http://img195.echo.cx/img195/5421/textspeak7hi.jpg
[color=blue]I will break you of this habit
In regards to the question the SHIFTERS will play a bigger role in smoothness and precision than the derailieurs.

Hey man, sorry about that. I remember you burning me before. "I will be broken of this habbit!...only on bikeforums.net"

What kind of difference?
The difference between a Hurst and a column shifter.

Should I buy different shifters?

Should I buy different shifters?
Chances are it would have more of an impact. Alivio is pretty decent in my opinion I ran the previous generation Alivio on my commuter until about a year ago. The newer Alivio stuff on the newer bikes is so much better than what I had.

Actually that's highly technical bunk in regards to this conversation.

I didn't realize basic math now qualifies as "highly technical". :D

To be honest, when I had that exact question this is the information that gave me the confidence to step outside the marketing hype and use logic to figure out what would work. I almost take that as a compliment Raiyn, who'd have thought that knowing as little as I know about this stuff I'd be asked to dumb down my answers.

I didn't realize basic math now qualifies as "highly technical". :D

To be honest, when I had that exact question this is the information that gave me the confidence to step outside the marketing hype and use logic to figure out what would work. I almost take that as a compliment Raiyn, who'd have thought that knowing as little as I know about this stuff I'd be asked to dumb down my answers.
As I stated it's not about the chain wrap capacity as that's still a product of cage length.

It's also a moot point as the 8 Speed Alivio shifts 9 just fine. (Though that's not what he's asking)

I'm not sure why you think all the math helped you as it's the range of lateral motion that's important here, not the chain wrap.
Perhaps I should have said "needlessly wordy"?

If I were you I'd just get them properly set up. Alivio stuff should work fine. Make sure your cable moves freely, mech hanger is straight, nothing covered with crap. Don't bother upgrading (yet)

Bulldust (to qoute Stubacca). I have LX on my brand new NRS properly adjusted and setup. My brother-in-law has Deore on his brand new Cannondale properly adjusted and setup and we BOTH notice a big difference between LX and just regular Deore.

You will notice a difference but only if you change the shifters to LX as well as the Derailleur.
Ranger ain't talking bulldust... he's absolutely correct in the context of this question: replacing the derailleur will not have a significant impact.

There's more difference between the NRS and the Cannondale shifting than just the derailleur. As you rightly point out, the OP will only really notice a difference if he upgrades the shifters as well, which will mean buying new cassette and chain too if he's upgrading to 9 speed. At which point you're better off upgrading to SRAM X.7 triggers and derailleurs IMHO.

At which point you're better off upgrading to SRAM X.7 triggers and derailleurs IMHO.
Especially with pricepoint's $80 shifters / R.D. package

The bruiser is a free ride bike. Why are you upgrading components like those?

It would be like an XC rider getting a QR 20 wheelset.

The bruiser is a free ride bike. Why are you upgrading components like those?

It would be like an XC rider getting a QR 20 wheelset.
This is certainly true. I was merely answering the question.:beer:

This is certainly true. I was merely answering the question.:beer:

True say.

I suggest he save up for a better fork or some other such free riding component.

True say.

I suggest he save up for a better fork or some other such free riding component.
I agree. However what he has may be adequate for his level of progression

Speaking of progression, I can kind of do a wheelie now. I was practicing for like 3 minutes and I got it. I was so proud. Secondly! I wasn't paying attention and turned way too far and fell, bending my brake levers! el oh el! It's pointed 90 degrees up now! Looks like a set of Avids is in my future!

I'll make a thread with pics and such later.

Especially with pricepoint's $80 shifters / R.D. package
Exactly where I was going with that thought... :D

Exactly where I was going with that thought... :D
Great minds think alike:beer: