Commuting - What's your tire recommendation?

Man is there ever an end to cycling junk that you "need"? Waiting for new cassette and chainring to come in and after 2nd flat this week in < 500 miles, it's time to look at tires.

Here's what I need:
1. better flat protection
2. lower rolling resistance
3. sized 700x28/x32/x35 [ the rim wasn't made for thinner tires ]
4. tires able to handle 125 lbs apiece

Good to have
5. reflective sidewalls [ for late fall, winter ]
6. not too slippy in wet. [ it's high desert here, 15..17 inches / year and much as snow. Not riding in snow. ]

Here's what I have: michelin--dynamic--380 grams-- 87 max PSI -- $13 -- easy to get flats, medium high rolling resistance.

Here's what I have found: [sorted by weight]
continental-- gran prix 4 -- 260g -- ?? psi -- $51
-- reputation: "good in wet", kevlar layer
continental-- ultra gator skin -- 308 g -- 125 psi -- $35
-- "weak in wet" "weak flat protection"

specialized-- 05 all sport -- 320g -- 125 psi -- $21
-- new, lower rolling resistance than armadillos
specialized-- 05 all armadillo-- 456g -- 100 psi -- $32
-- "hard ride", "great cut protection", "weak sidewalls"

schwalbe-- marathon plus-- 690g -- 100 psi -- $34
-- 95 load capacity, hard to get flats, "high rolling resistance", 4 mm of tread


SO, which would you recommend? Or is there another that would be best in this size group?
Price is NOT a primary concern and I always throw away tubes and it doesn't take much here to make a bigger difference than the initial price. I need to cut down the hassle of changing flats to about 1/year max. But I also would not like to have to pedal harder.

And the answer from oracles of cycling wisdom is...........?

Oh, for math challenged, 1 oz is about 28 grams. 30 is good ballpark. Since this is part of the revolving power train, double the weight to get the effective weight.

Why are you looking for such a high pressure rating in a wider tire?

Armadillos are great. I've been using them for a bit over a year now (probably about 2500ish miles on that bike), and haven't had a single puncture (touch friggin' wood!!!!!). I use 700x28 @ 105psi rear/95 psi front. They're fine when the roads are wet (like that happens much here!!!). I think a lot of the 'hard ride' comments were from previous generations of this tire... the current ones are much better. They roll better than the Panaracers Urban Max tires I had on before them (700x32), and much better than the knobbies I throw on in the winter!

Marathons seem to get good reviews from many members here too, and the reflective sidewalls would be a bonus. I'm thinking about trying these in a month or two when my rear tire wears out.

Dunno why you need 125PSI in a 32, I run the Panaracer Pasela TG (TourGuard) 700x32 at 95PSI and they're great.

I have gotten one puncture (front tire, small shard of glass) so far.

I had 700x38 Armadillos on prior to these, and found them to be very slow and heavy (they weigh twice as much as the Pasela TG) and high rolling resistance.

Schwalbe Marathons, not the Plus. I have over 800 miles without a flat, and they look good (no cuts or gouges), in spite of my route having quite a bit of glass and spiky tree waste. The Marathon Pluses weigh more than a pound more and cost about $10 more. I'm no weight weenie, I'm just not sure that I would be getting a lot more for the extra weight and cost.

Rivendell "Speedblend (http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/tires_tubes/10054.html)" tires.

Because...well...they're so darned pretty, and the color matches my bike, and they're just neato and fun and stuff.

Really.

(Here's what they look like while riding) (http://www.tandemhearts.com/rbw-2004/FA1G3679.jpg)-good thing I can't watch them while I'm riding, or I may very well crash...

PSI was max rating for tire. I think I would want about 80psi.

Rivendell "Speedblend (http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/tires_tubes/10054.html)" tires.
..

You win the contest for the most colorful tire!!!

continental-- gran prix 4 -- 260g -- ?? psi -- $51
-- reputation: "good in wet", kevlar layer


Continental Grand Prix 4-Seasons are $38 at biketiresdirect.com. (Also, $37 at Performance after a 20% coupon and 10% Team member points back) Mine have done well. (120psi for my 700x25 size, BTW)

Thanks, I only took the price from one site. I was looking for ballpark. Thanks for the psi update.

After 4,000 miles, I wouldn't consider any other tire than the Marathon Plus. I consider the extra weight of the tire a virtue. I demand and expect the same flat resistance on my bike tires that I do on my car tires.

Paul
(who wonders what the opposite of a weight weenie is?)
:)

I've been running Gatorskins (700x25) for about 6 months/1500 miles, and no flats so far. I used to flat about once a month with the Specialized "All-Condition" tires my bike came with.

I'm not sure I'd say the Gatorskins have a reputation for weak flat protection, so much as "less indestructible than Armadillos".

After going through the rear OEM Michelin Dynamic 28mm that came on my Giant Cypress SX in about 500 miles, I switched to the Michelin Transworld City. After another 1700 miles, no flats and no visible wear. It has a center ridge, but the side tread is deep and prevents anything from wearing a hole in the tire (a big problem with the slicks). I bought mine from REI for $20, but Airbomb also has them for $16.50.

http://store.airbomb.com/mmAIRBOMB/Images/large/q/TR8262.jpg

Thanks. I say the transworld and they looked like the best Michelins. They are 390g and have a "puncture strip" but not kevlar. Biggest drawback is they are only rated for max of 87psi, the same as the dynamic. I would like a rating of 100, so I can ride at 80 or 90 psi without worry.

Update on the schwalbe marathon plus
TPI is 207 and load is 100 Kg not pounds, so 220/tire. Great information from schwalbe NA.

I'm really torn between the schwalbe marathon, the conti GP4, and the specialized all sport.

Is it a bad idea to mix tires? This is not like a car or bike, max speed is only about 30 mph.

...Is it a bad idea to mix tires? This is not like a car or bike, max speed is only about 30 mph.

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't think it would be a problem. Sometimes the actual rolling diameter/width is off from the reported size, probably not enough to be markedly noticeable though.

You win the contest for the most colorful tire!!!

Thanks-I like them so far. I have them on a celeste/team Bianchi...kinda cool!

I voted other - I have Shwable Marathon's (not pluses) and I am very pleased with them. I road them through a complete downpour yesterday with no problems at all. They have reflective sidewalls.

Agreed the reflective sidewalls are a big plus. What's their rolling resistance like? Are you pushing dogs and cats or just merrily cruising along.

Right now I leaning towards a do it yourself Conti Attack/Force. I just found out there is also a marathon slick, which I knew. But just discovered it has a kevlar belt. It's also 10g lighter than normal marathon.

So thinking:
front: marathon slick 700x30
rear: marathon 700x32
I'm just not conviced I need the marathon plus. This would be about $20 cheaper than conti route and it would fit the current rims.
The other option would be:
front: marathon slick 700x30
rear: marathon plus 700x28 [690g] or 700x32 [790g]
But again not sure I need pluses and the extra pound of weight.

Schwable's seem to have a very good reflective sidewall and that is a big plus.

Well, I've got 26's, so you have to remember that I was coming from a 2.1" Mountain Tire. TO me, the rolling resistance is just great! Again, I was VERY impressed with how they handled the rain and deep puddles.

I understand thanks. We don't have much rain here, but it's good to know.

I consistently pump the Transworlds up to about 90 with no problems. I suspect that the pressure ratings are about as accurate as the width ratings of tires. +/- 10% at least. I have a Michelin Dynamic on the front still which is a 700x28 and it is exactly the same width as the Michelin Transworld 700x32 on the back. Same company can't even get it right. If they can't get this right, then how can you/we expect that the PSI rating is anywhere near accurate? Most bicycle components are incorrect as well (witness weightweenies.com)

The Schwalbes, while arguably the best tire for touring out there, are ridiculously heavy. They are built for loaded touring IMO, not commuting (except maybe NYC, Chicago to save rims). The heft is not flat protection, but load protection. Both tires are almost 2 lbs heavier than the Transworlds. In fact, I think it would be hard to find a heavier tire on the market. That'll slow you down as much as the extra 10 psi gains you.

Someone said a while ago that he buys the cheapest slicks he can find, usually less than $10. Add Mr. Tuffy liners and you have formidable flat protection. We did that on my wife's commuter with Performance tires and Mr Tuffy. No flats in 1000 miles and no visible wear to the tread. They look brand new. They'll last at least 3-4000 miles. I would have done the same, but couldn't find that tire in the width I wanted. In fact, I bought/returned 2 or 3 other tires in various sizes before I settled on the Transworld which matched the Dynamic's width (closer to 30). Continental is horrible about this. I think they do it to come in near/under competitor's widths/weights. Their 32s and 28s were exactly the same width and both were about 26mm on my rims as I remember. WTF? Returned.

Let us know about your experiences with whatever tire you choose.

By the way, do you usually ride roads or bike paths?

Never got a flat on thousands of miles on armadillos. totally bomb-proof and last a long time, too.

Never got a flat on thousands of miles on armadillos. totally bomb-proof and last a long time, too.

Yeah, you and a lot of others. I've heard they had a harsh slow ride. So was considering the new all condition sport.

noticeably harsh ride. 'tis true. but for commuting - I'll take a harsh ride over even a rare flat change in heavy traffic.

Let us know about your experiences with whatever tire you choose.

By the way, do you usually ride roads or bike paths?

Today, I'm thinking of
700x32 on rear, marathons 510g and 700x30 marathon slicks on front, 500g.

They are heavy, heavy. An extra 120g/tire. Since this is rotating weight it will be just over one extra pound.
If I hate it after about a year, I'll replace with sepeciallized all condition sports. They are closer in weight but are training tires and unknown characteristics. I'll call the schwalbe's my training handicap. I might order and wait til fall to put them on, and just put in Mr Tuffy in the mean time. I don't need the sidewalls until fall.

I ride on both surfaces:
road 1/8 mi; path 1/8 mile; road 3 miles; path 1/2 mi; road rest.
The 2 paths are connecting shortcuts and only one has a small amount of dogs/peds on it. The second is generally free as it's an underpass between town and industrial park. If you're not going to industrial park, you're not likely to go out of the way to the small park in the area.

The problem is the roads and lanes and paths are rarely cleaned so lots of debrie on them. I usually miss the broker beer bottles. It's the metal fragments that have snagged me twice.

Why are you looking for such a high pressure rating in a wider tire?

Armadillos are great. I've been using them for a bit over a year now (probably about 2500ish miles on that bike), and haven't had a single puncture (touch friggin' wood!!!!!). I use 700x28 @ 105psi rear/95 psi front. They're fine when the roads are wet (like that happens much here!!!). I think a lot of the 'hard ride' comments were from previous generations of this tire... the current ones are much better. They roll better than the Panaracers Urban Max tires I had on before them (700x32), and much better than the knobbies I throw on in the winter!

All I've ever had on my Trek are Specialized Turbo Armadillos 700 x 26. In fact, I've had these on for so long, I can't remember. Bought a back-up set in 2002 and those have been sitting in my closet. Wish they never stopped making them.

I don't even give a second thought to the weight of the tire. The way I see it, the weight I'm concerned about is mine :)

If I ever do get concerned I can make up the weight difference by leaving my ULock at home - I don't use it 99% of the days anyway.

Continental is horrible about this. I think they do it to come in near/under competitor's widths/weights. Their 32s and 28s were exactly the same width and both were about 26mm on my rims as I remember. WTF? Returned.


You're measuring the full diameter of the tire? I just put 3 700x25 4-Seasons on two of my bikes, and they're all 24.5mm +/- 0.3mm

Ive been using Armadillos for several years on my commute and have never had a flat with one. They do ride a bit harsh as mentioned before. I found the 700X38c to be a bit heavy and sluggish too. Im currently trying out two sets of Bontrager "Race Lite Hardcase" in 700X25 and 700X32. They are definately smoother and way more quiet than the Armadillos. Time will tell how they hold up. http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Tires/5731.php

Thanks for all your suggestions. I was stumped for a long time thinking I couldn't find tires in the size I needed. I ordered the schwalbe's. It will be interesting to see how they work out. Thinking about it some more, I hate flats so much, I'll go ahead and put them on. I've been riding the last two days at 75 psi and a much harder ride. I won't go to maximum.

It was a close call between the GP4's the all sport and the marathons. this time I choose dependability. We'll see if I like or regret that decision. Any of the 3 is definitely better than the Michelins.

Speaking of Michelins, did you hear about the Indy race they blew? 20 cars qualified, but only 6 ran. The other 14 were pulled because the Michelin engineers said it was too dangerous for the race car drivers to drive at speed with their tires. Makes you pause.

Those are probably a good choice for a softer ride and durability together. (Well, you can't really go wrong with them on those two points) They also have deep tread, if you want that. The 4-Seasons are thinner lighter tires with no real tread, like race tires.

Problem with race cars is they choose the tire compound's formula to go with the conditions. If they don't bring the right tire for the conditions, they can't race. It's also possible the engineers screwed up the rubber formulation and they weren't performing right. Those tires get very hot. No relation to bike tires at all.

Those are probably a good choice for a softer ride and durability together. (Well, you can't really go wrong with them on those two points) They also have deep tread, if you want that. The 4-Seasons are thinner lighter tires with no real tread, like race tires.

That's good to know. I think spec. added a thinner armadillo type lining in the tire. But too many unknowns.



Problem with race cars is they choose the tire compound's formula to go with the conditions. If they don't bring the right tire for the conditions, they can't race. It's also possible the engineers screwed up the rubber formulation and they weren't performing right. Those tires get very hot.

The only scarey part is engineers don't know why the tires were failing, just that they were unsafe as it either ready to pop or a few popped.



No relation to bike tires at all.

No more that GE lightbulbs are related to GE refrigs. But still, the same company and the same processes at work. Companies develop a reputation for tight processes, average processes, or loose process controls. Sarbane-Oxley may add a touch of process control to some companies that were too loose, but that's a whole different discussion.

Problem with race cars is they choose the tire compound's formula to go with the conditions. If they don't bring the right tire for the conditions, they can't race. It's also possible the engineers screwed up the rubber formulation and they weren't performing right. Those tires get very hot. No relation to bike tires at all.
There's a big thread sitting in Foo about this.

Suffice to say, it wasn't a compound problem, rather an issue with the tire construction.

FYI update. Installed the schwalbe tires and went for a spin. The extra weight is totally not noticable. The recommended pressure is 90 psi. Well actually 95, but I went for 90. Range is 55-95. There is a slight sensation of bumpiness. Probably from the rear tire as it's a standard marathon. It will be interesting to see if the front marathon slick does as well as the marathon for puncture resistance. I didn't try the marathon plus so I don't know what it's ride it like.

I not even going to respond to the poll because your not using apples to apples comparisons! The Specialize Sport tire is a inexpensive tire thats at least $10 less then all the others. Now had you said Specialize All Condition Pro or Mondo Pro then I would had made my input in the poll.

Of the tires you mentioned the Armadillo is the most flat protected tire except for maybe the Marathon which is way too heavy. But if you want more then adequate flat protection with light weightness (about 230grms) and low rolling resistence your best buy would be either the Specialize All Condition Pro or the Mondo Pro; both of these tires come with a lighter version of the Flak protection that the Armadillo has which is far superior to anything the other brands offer (except for the Marathon).

I use Bontrager "Race Lite" I have over 1000 miles on them and no problems yet. I run with about 90-100 pounds of air. They are on a Trek 2200 and I weight about 190 pounds.

http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelworks/Tires/5730.php

I use Avocet Cross IIK (kevlar belt). You can get them here:

http://gtgtandems.com/parts/700c.html

Excellent rolling resistance and flat protection.

Relatively light, high psi (as high as 105 on 700x28, 95 on 700x32, 80-90 on 700x35 and 75-85 on 700x38).

Inverted tread good for many surfaces.

See details here:

http://avocet.com/tirepages/cross_2_specs.html

Aerodynamics indicate that a narrower front tire is more important then the rear tire. Since normal weight distribution puts more weight on the rear tire many riders pump up the rear tire to higher psi. But there is logic in going with a slightly thicker rear tire for a smoother ride and keeping pressures uniform. My own decision used similar logic and put a 7/8" wide Avocet FasGrip Time Trial 30 on front and 1 1/4" wide Continental Ultra GatorSkin on back. Polyurethane tubes are more puncture resistant then butyl rubber and I use one in the front skinny. But urethane tubes cost about 10 times what butyl tubes cost and the more durable Ultra GatorSkin gets a butyl tube. Vector analysis indicates that the “V” shape of channels in tires should be placed with the top of the “V” to the forward of the bike for best efficiency – think of the air, debris or water scooting out as the tire comes down and the bottom of the “V” or forward and outside pointing channels, push the backs or bottoms of “Vs” and like a paddlewheel slightly aid forward movement. Aerodynamics are about 80% of the resistance to movement of a bike and for speed and efficiency should be kept in mind.

I think you broked my brane.... http://www.speakeasy.net/~bkr/smilies/crazies.gif

Well just think of it that where the tire hits the road the top of the "V" is most efficient facing forward on the bike. Ritchey Tire is the one that sells "Vector Analysis" design mountain bike tires designed for commuting - Ritchey Slick. Slicks have great efficiency, this tire is slick only right down the middle and the grooves that do exist on the Slick are basically big curved "Vs"; OK so erase the bottom apex of the "V" or \ /. Ritchey put arrows on the tire to indicate the rotation direction.
forward
|\ /|
|\ /|
|\ /| road surface
|\ /|
|\ /|
rear
Now if you sprayed water right at the road surface towards the tire which way would it rotate?
Yeah, it rotates down towards the rear, adding a little momentum.

I used the Avocet Cross (700x38c) for years on my 1994 Cannondale T700 touring/commuter bike and found them to be very reliable. I now have a 2005 Kona Cinder Cone that I use for a commuter and have installed the Specialized Nimbus EX (26x1.5"). So far I like the ride and feel but will know more about reliability as the kilometres add up.

Ritchey Tire is the one that sells "Vector Analysis" design mountain bike tires...

Good goddess, I thought you were joking...

Your pic makes no sense according the car tires. Car tires have the tread design opposite of what you showed...assuming I'm looking at your pic right. With a directional car tire the water has to be force out from under the middle of the tread out to the sides and away from the tire thus the pattern is like this:
|/ \|
|/ \|

So that water is pushed out from the front to the rear and out to the sides away from the tire. If you do it the opposite way with a directional tire the water would shoot towards the front of the tire causing more water needing to be run over by the tire and thus hydroplaning could be become more of a problem instead of less.

I llike to use a skinnier tire in front for aerodynamics and a thicker tire in back for comfort. But if I was using one tire then I like Continental Ultra GatorSkins that go to 120 psi.
The Ad says:
Ultra Gator Skin, The kilometre king - HANDMADE IN GERMANY A durable carbon black compound, good puncture protection and the Duraskin fabric make the Ultra Gatorskin a veritable kilometre eater. Available in widths from 23mm to 32mm, it can be used on the way to the office just as well as for serious training or when touring with baggage. An immensely popular tire, durable, rugged and priced at about US$35.

If you talk about water shooting straight forward,straight tire grooves, to be run over again, then yes it would hydroplane easily. But if you talk about jets from grooves shooting forward and to the side then the tire/wheel is propelled backward - the way you are going and would make you faster. The conclusion - maybe you are putting on car tires backwards, and maybe simple designs for bicycle tires like the Ritchey Slick - with grooves shooting water forward and to the sides - and said to be designed using "vector analysis" are correct. If you put little rockets on your rims which way would you point the exhaust jet. Forward at the road/rim interface causing the vehicle to go forward. I setup the Continental Ultra GatorSkin to shoot the water as much forward and to the sides as possible. The tread pattern is similar to the Ritchey Slick and should be put on like the Ritchey Slick. If a really strong wind was blowing and the jet of water landed right in the path of the tire - then yes it would hydroplane more easily. But I want efficiency and speed and rarely see wind blowing that fast. When you look at a car or bike tire from the top or front, most seem to be on with the grooves looking like they are swooping back, at the pavement that would mean the sides of the tires the grooves are forward - gee - most cars look right.