General Cycling Discussion - Police

I asked this question on another thread but decided to start a new one. How many of you have had a run in with the law while on your bike. My only one (so far;) ) was getting pulled over on a lonely country road when I sailed thru a stop sign. I was pulled over and given a warning. Whatever. Am I alone as a law breaking criminal on 2 wheels, or are there others out there?

I was pulled over and fined £20 for passing a red light. I had stopped, but decided to get a jump on the large bus behind me so crossed just as the other lights changed to red and before mine turned green.
I was also ticked off by a policewoman for cycling across (not along) a wide pavement in central London buisness district early on a Sunday morning (imagine the crowds).

UK cyclists should avoid showing their driving license as ID. You dont have to show it, but if you do, it can be endorsed (penalty points added) for cycling offenses.

Irrespective of where you live, if you have to show your driver's license as identification, tactfully ask/beg the officer not to write your license number on the ticket.

I have had very little trouble with either the San Diego County Sheriff's deputies or nearby cities' traffic enforcement officers, but I always ride within the spirit, if not the precise letter, of the law. Perhaps because of their bicycle patrols, our local law enforcement personnel generally realize that bicyclists can legally make vehicular left turns, take the lane where appropriate, etc. Most also tolerate trackstanding at stop signs, instead of insisting that one unclip and plant a foot on the ground.

I don't mean to throw stones and I may not be reading the spirit of this thread as meant, but it seems to me that by hiding or (if you like) avoiding the fact that one has a drivers licence when busted for breaking the law, one is perhaps avoiding taking responsibility for ones actions.

Sure you will pay the price levied by the police whether you have a drivers licence or not. But what's the difference? You might collect demerits? Is there any reason that you shouldn't?

I stand ready to be corrected if I've made an incorrect assumption here.

I'm always happy to see the cops when I'm on my bike. If a cop car is in the area the motorists behave a lot better for a while.

Originally posted by MediaCreations
I'm always happy to see the cops when I'm on my bike. If a cop car is in the area the motorists behave a lot better for a while.

Ditto for that. I've never had a problem with the police when I've been on my rides. Mind you, I generally don't break the law either. In fact, when I've had reason to report other incidents to the police, they've actually been very helpful.

I would love to tell my story about how Dekalb County police strip-searched me, threw me in jail and sprayed me with a fire hose, but my only tale is how an Atlanta policeman politely asked me to keep to the right (except there were too many potholes on the right.)

Yep, my complaint is I want to see more of them on the freeways and neighborhoods yanking drunks and speeders. To be fair, they probably spend too much time answering domestic disputes.

Don't get me wrong. Police corruption is quite real. Sheriff Sidney Dorsey is an example, recently convicted for conspiring to murder his political opponent who beat him in the election.

His ass is goin to jail.

I was almost hit by a Tulsa Police car this morning. He rolled down his window and said he wasn't paying attention like he should and was sorry. Tulsa have better than average respect for cyclist, and boy am I glad.

There is an infamous intersection out here in No. Cal. (Alpine Rd. & Portola Rd. in Portola Valley) where the police regularly wait to hand out tickets to unobservant cyclists. The police were out again today. We had been warned by cyclists going the other way that the cops were there, so we all came to a near stop (they don't require you to actually take your foot out the pedals) and avoided a ticket. There is a water fountain just after this intersection and as we were filling up, two guys sailed around the corner and were nailed by the police.

I received a ticket there a couple of years ago myself and now am very careful to make sure there are no police around. The annoying thing is that it is a 'T' intersection. There is a long grade leading up to the intersection and a well-used bike lane. At the stop sign I generally make a right-hand turn, remaining in the bike lane. So they are handing out tickets to cyclists in a bike lane who are turning left into a bike lane. There is very little pedestrian traffic at this intersection. Now on the day I was ticketed, there was a strong headwind so you HAD to pedal around the corner!

Around here the city police and county sheriff are okay. The CHP have some sort of personal issue with all cyclist outside the city limits. They have wronged myself and many cyclist in the area on many occassions (see Rants: Local Gendarmes). Because of this incident, many riders dread the presence of Cycle Hating Patrol and have zero respect for them. After calling the local DA and telling him several tales of "injustice". The DA commented that their office doesn't consider the CHP law enforcement, "just ticket writers".
California law is a little fuzzy when it comes to carrying ID or a driver's license. Cyclist are not required to carry legal ID. However, if there is a citable offense, then a cyclist is required to produce legal ID. In most cases this means a driver's license which also means points against your license and possible car insurance rate increases.
I guess this turned into another rant. Sorry. I also understand that this is one sided.

Originally posted by John E
Irrespective of where you live, if you have to show your driver's license as identification, tactfully ask/beg the officer not to write your license number on the ticket.

I have had very little trouble with either the San Diego County Sheriff's deputies or nearby cities' traffic enforcement officers, but I always ride within the spirit, if not the precise letter, of the law. Perhaps because of their bicycle patrols, our local law enforcement personnel generally realize that bicyclists can legally make vehicular left turns, take the lane where appropriate, etc. Most also tolerate trackstanding at stop signs, instead of insisting that one unclip and plant a foot on the ground.

Wow, is that true? I just got a ticket in CA for not completely coming to stop and the cop didn't write my license number on the ticket... does this mean NO points??? BTW, I did stop but I didn't put my foot down.

Originally posted by lin_kieu
I asked this question on another thread but decided to start a new one. How many of you have had a run in with the law while on your bike. My only one (so far;) ) was getting pulled over on a lonely country road when I sailed thru a stop sign. I was pulled over and given a warning. Whatever. Am I alone as a law breaking criminal on 2 wheels, or are there others out there?

Maybe next time you sail through an intersection on this open country road, you will think twice about it. The next time it could be a semi who decided to sail through and you won't be as lucky. How about thanking the officer for doing his job and looking out for your safety.

Originally posted by grego262


Maybe next time you sail through an intersection on this open country road, you will think twice about it. The next time it could be a semi who decided to sail through and you won't be as lucky. How about thanking the officer for doing his job and looking out for your safety.

Believe me, if I was on a regular road I would have. However, I was on a country lane, completely devoid, except for the hidden state trooper, of traffic, which makes the fact I got stopped even more irritating. There was no one else on that road except me. Even after I left him, I didn't see another car for 45 min. On roads with traffic, I obey all Stop/yield signs, lights and various other traffic laws. The reason I had picked this road is because of the known seclusion so that I could do some flat out time trial training. I don't need a bored cop to look out for my safety on a deserted road. I'm quite capable of doing that myself.

It occurs to me that, if I stopped for every stop light and stop sign on any of my routes, I would average something near 6 km/h. Might as well walk.

Originally posted by lin_kieu


Believe me, if I was on a regular road I would have. However, I was on a country lane, completely devoid, except for the hidden state trooper, of traffic, which makes the fact I got stopped even more irritating. There was no one else on that road except me. Even after I left him, I didn't see another car for 45 min. On roads with traffic, I obey all Stop/yield signs, lights and various other traffic laws. The reason I had picked this road is because of the known seclusion so that I could do some flat out time trial training. I don't need a bored cop to look out for my safety on a deserted road. I'm quite capable of doing that myself.

Sorry you feel that way...The officer was doing his job, to protect and to serve. He may very well prevent a DUI or speeder from hitting you someday, on that road.

Originally posted by velocipedio
It occurs to me that, if I stopped for every stop light and stop sign on any of my routes, I would average something near 6 km/h. Might as well walk.

Are you implying that you don't and that your average is much higher?

Originally posted by velocipedio
It occurs to me that, if I stopped for every stop light and stop sign on any of my routes, I would average something near 6 km/h. Might as well walk.
:eek:

I average just under 14 mph with all the stops and hills, etc.

Sounds like you're talking about a path! :(

I was stopped riding through a neighborhood which had experienced some burglaries. I had taken a week off work in October and was riding in the middle of a weekday. They checked their porto-rogue gallery and let me go.

I agree that he was doing his job. But, common sense, which is sometimes lacking in the law, should have told him that I am/was hardly what could be described as a threat to public safety. If he pulls over a speeder or DUI, great. They are a threat to safety. Heck, if I was in a car speeding down that road that day instead of on a bike, I'd accept the responsibility for my negligence. If am speeding down a coutry road, chances are that I do it in the city as well. However, as a cyclist, I feel that I/we are generally more concious and attentive to our surroundings, both on our bikes, and in our cars, when we drive them ;) .
Now this is a purely subjective point of view, but if I were a cop, sitting in my patrol car on a lonely stretch of road and saw someone speeding by in their car over 30 MPH over the speed limit, yeah I'd pull him over. He broke the law first and foremost, but also figure that a ticket may teach him a lesson so that he won't do this when in a crowded city street and put innocent people at risk.
Now if I were the same cop and saw me go by on bike going at most 25 MPH on a 45 MPH road and blow the STOP sign, I wouldn't bother, unless I was a fellow cyclist and wanted to politely warn him make some friendly bike banter. Obviously, I'm not encased in a ton of metal that potentially could kill someone, and obviously I'm not going to be blowing STOP signs in regular traffic unless I had a death wish. And the cop was not being polite. He looked like some muscle headed ex-marine who had a bug up his butt. The simple fact that he tried a scare tactic (lie) on me about carrying my drivers license on me at all times shows his mindset. BTW, I checked with a lawyer, and there is no such law in Michigan.

I agree lin_kieu, I would have been pissed too. Obviously this cop had nothing better to do and you happened to catch his wrath. This is probably the same guy who gives out tickets for going one or two miles over the limit. You can't argue that you didn't break the law, but sometimes circumstances need to be considered IMO. I see cops speeding in their cruisers all the time, but who is going to give a cop a ticket? At least it was just a warning, no money of yours going into the city coffers.

I have been pulled over twice. First time was for not coming to a complete stop near the University. He made me go back to the stop sign and try it again. That one was at a congested area and I thought it was stupid at the time but he was right. Second time I was pulled over because I was riding a BMX bike and the cops thought I might have stolen it since the bike was too small for me. One of the cops recognized me from the motor pool and they let me go. Sometimes I wish a bike cop would chase me for fun, just to see if I could outrun him. It's hard to outrun a Motorola though :D
-BT

I don't get it. Cyclist are not pedistrians, and are not cars. You are on your bike you blow a stop sign and you get a warning. From what I learned growing up while riding your bike you are supposed to obey all traffic laws. You blow a stop sign, (breaking a law) and get a warning and are pissed off about it. How is the situation different that you were on your bike and not in your car. I'd feel safer knowing that the cop stopped me and warned than sitting there and do nothing.

Carrying your license may not be a law, but I would hope you carry some sort of identification on you, I do every time I am on the street be it running or cycling.

I would have to agree with lin_kieu. I ride my bike to work about every day before 6am. I pass several lights and each one I usually run the red. IF I was in a car I would not have to worry about it because there is some trigger mechanism and the light changes before I would come to a complete stop. On my bike, to legally make it all the way to work, I would have to push the pedestrian crosswalk button at each intersection - one of the lights doesn't even have one of those, I would have to wait until the next car came along to cross. My point is - I use good judgment when I run the 2-3 red lights on my way to work each morning - the law is good, but cycling defiantly has it's gray areas. (BTW- When I ride the same route home I stop at every red light, because there is traffic, and I would DIE if I tried to cross)
Joe

Grego, I understand your view and as far as breaking the law goes that isn't in dispute. I guess my issue is with the enforcement. If we are going to say that all infractions and laws need to be inforced no matter what then I see no need for cops, just set up cameras and robots at all intersections and stop signs. Lin ran a stop sign on a deserted country road on a bike. Ranks pretty low on the crime scale if you ask me. I bet most riders on this board would have done the same thing, under those circumstances.

Originally posted by velocipedio
It occurs to me that, if I stopped for every stop light and stop sign on any of my routes, I would average something near 6 km/h. Might as well walk.

I find this surprising. I stop for all of the red lights on my commute, and can still cover the 24km distance in well under an hour.

Originally posted by sscyco
IF I was in a car I would not have to worry about it because there is some trigger mechanism and the light changes before I would come to a complete stop. On my bike, to legally make it all the way to work, I would have to push the pedestrian crosswalk button at each intersection -

That's not true. If a cyclist (or any other vehicle) has stopped and ascertained that they have a non-responsive sensor, they are legally allowed to then proceed through the red light. I do this myself quite often. However, I will not blow through a red light without first stopping and making sure.

Originally posted by Bigtime
If we are going to say that all infractions and laws need to be inforced no matter what then I see no need for cops, just set up cameras and robots at all intersections and stop signs.

Scary, but they already are doing that in England. I lived there for 3 years with my fiance. There are cameras everywhere at intersections, stop/yield signs, and pedestrian xings. If you commit an infraction, the camera operator reviews the tape, copies your license number, and you get a ticket mailed to you. Granted the number of traffic infringements are proabably lower there than here (I've never heard of any such study), but that's a little too much monitoring for me. ;)

I totally agree. They are testing cameras here as well, and they've used them in Phoenix for a few years now. I am totally against them, but not much I can do about it. Yet another case of the few screwing things up for the many.

Originally posted by grego262
I don't get it. Cyclist are not pedistrians, and are not cars. You are on your bike you blow a stop sign and you get a warning. From what I learned growing up while riding your bike you are supposed to obey all traffic laws. You blow a stop sign, (breaking a law) and get a warning and are pissed off about it. How is the situation different that you were on your bike and not in your car. I'd feel safer knowing that the cop stopped me and warned than sitting there and do nothing.

Carrying your license may not be a law, but I would hope you carry some sort of identification on you, I do every time I am on the street be it running or cycling.

I'm not/wasn't pissed. Annoyed yeah. Like I said, had he been good natured about it I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought. The weighing factor was the fact that he tried to tell me that carrying my drivers license was law in MI, when it wasn't. I found that later to be false, as I had guessed it was. I found that to be an insult to my intelligence, as though I wouldn't find out the truth. He was very short and curt with me. By his attitude, you would have thought I had blown a stop sign at a school crossing just after school was let out. I put 2 and 2 together and figured it was a hot day, the guy was bored, and decided to take out his frustrations on this insignificant cyclist who posed no threat to anyone. I'm no cop hater. I think they serve a very useful function in society - when they do it right and empathy where empathy could be warranted, as in my case. As Bigtime pointed out, how many of us haven't seen a cop speeding or rolling thru stop lights/signs, just to turn into Ram's Horn for a bite to eat? I see it on average once a month here. So since I know that it's not safe for him to do so, should I race him down on my bike and give him a warning? Behaviour like that could get me run over by him.

As for ID, I carry a photocopy of my drivers license and insurance card along with a few buck in a ziplock bag with me now. Not because of the cop, but because of the rash of cyclist getting mowed down by gas guzzlers.

Originally posted by Bigtime
I totally agree. They are testing cameras here as well, and they've used them in Phoenix for a few years now. I am totally against them, but not much I can do about it. Yet another case of the few screwing things up for the many.

I was watching an interview with Jude Law recently, and he was talking about those in England. I guess if you look hard enough there's a license plate cover that you can buy that will fuzz out the numbers on film. Apparently he has one and gives the infamous British "V" to the camera as he rolls thru a red light.:D

My only "run in" with a policeman was with an Alcorn County sherrif's deputy riding from Corinth, Mississippi to Kossuth, Mississippi on Mississippi 2. Now if you can find that on a map, you are doing pretty well. It is a sparsely traveled rural state highway with a 55 mph speed limit. He wanted me totally off of the road, on the gravel shoulder.

It spoiled my riding in Northeast, Mississippi, and was the big reason that there were very few miles on my road bike from 1991 till the present. It was sad, because, while the air can be a little warm and humid, the hills are fairly small and the roads generally are very scenic.

police officers are human too, if you treat them shabbily they will treat you the same way, i have never been treated badly by any officer even on my worse day, treat them with respect and they will treat you with the same respect that you are giving them, treat them with disdain and the next word coming out of the mouth of the officer would be hands on the hood of the cars, and don't move...

That's not always been my experience in the US. I can think of several occasions where I treated the officer with respect but I was not treated likewise.

Originally posted by 2wheelsrule


Wow, is that true? I just got a ticket in CA for not completely coming to stop and the cop didn't write my license number on the ticket... does this mean NO points??? BTW, I did stop but I didn't put my foot down.

Right, in CA you don't receive points for bicycle infractions. At least not for failure to come to a complete stop. I don't know about running red lights, 'tho.

Respect is a 2 way street. If an officer doesnt show me respect then he will not get any from me. I drive trucks for a living and have dealt with police from just about every one of the lower 48 states. Most of them do thier jobs well. But is there always going to be the unprofessional idiots out there. I have had very pleasant encounters where I deserved the ticket and took it with no problem. then I have had encounters where the officer and I stood on the side of the road yelling and cursing at each other. 2 such incidence come to mind where I wasnt breaking any law and the officer was just out to collect a fine, An easy $300.00. I havent had an encounter with the law since getting back on my bike but I will handle it as I handle any encounter with police. I always start out politeness and courtesy. then I wait to see how the officer will act. Then if he is disrespectful then I give it right back to him, and smile while I am doing it .:D

I admit that 95% of my experience with cops have been, if not nice, at least polite and courteous. However that other 5% is what can marr the image of police in many people's mind, including mine. I think a big problem is these cops get bored handing out tickets and hearing the same excuses day in and day out. It could also be attributed to the fact that sometimes the power and position can go to their head. The fact that we've all seen a cop at one time or another run lights, speed and other various things that we, as mere citizens, could not, shows that a percentage of the police force think that they are above the law. I would love a mayor of a city to give the citizens the right to police the police.

Originally posted by kingajo
Respect is a 2 way street. If an officer doesnt show me respect then he will not get any from me. D
as they say respect is the key to long life....

Originally posted by lin_kieu
I admit that 95% of my experience with cops have been, if not nice, at least polite and courteous. However that other 5% is what can marr the image of police in many people's mind, including mine. I think a big problem is these cops get bored handing out tickets and hearing the same excuses day in and day out. It could also be attributed to the fact that sometimes the power and position can go to their head. The fact that we've all seen a cop at one time or another run lights, speed and other various things that we, as mere citizens, could not, shows that a percentage of the police force think that they are above the law. I would love a mayor of a city to give the citizens the right to police the police.


You are absolutely correct, its the 5% that screw it up for the good ones. The only time the police make the news is when we lose one in the line of duty, corruption, or accusations of abuse. Most cops, are good people doing a thankless job. Please keep that in mind. For the record I am a police dispatcher, a runner, and a cyclist. See you on the roads.

Greg, thanks for doing your job! Police / 911 dispatch is a demanding job.

As for blowing a stop sign? I admit, i have ran a few, but i always slow down to a respectable (under 10mph) speed, and look both ways. I have only been hassled by a police officer on my bike once, and i was in the wrong. Riding down some stairs on campus, i was going to be late for class. I stopped as soon as the cop yelled at me; but decided not to wait as he walked his bike down the 100+ stairs i just went down. I couldn’t afford to be late! ;)

Originally posted by LittleBigMan
Police corruption is quite real. Sheriff Sidney Dorsey is an example, recently convicted for conspiring to murder his political opponent who beat him in the election.

His ass is goin to jail.
Let me add to this statement: the fact that former Dekalb County Sheriff Sidney Dorsey is going to prison for murdering his political rival, Derwin Brown (whose widow will receive a Sheriff's pension thanks to Governor Roy Barnes, even though Brown never made it to office alive) is proof that justice is still alive and well.

Good cops are not paid well enough.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MisterJ
[B]My only "run in" with a policeman was with an Alcorn County sherrif's deputy riding from Corinth, Mississippi to Kossuth, Mississippi on Mississippi 2. Now if you can find that on a map, you are doing pretty well. It is a sparsely traveled rural state highway with a 55 mph speed limit. He wanted me totally off of the road, on the gravel shoulder.

I too "lived" in Corinth for 3 years in the 90's. You're lucky if the police were the only thing that bothered you. I've never had to outrun so many dogs in my life. Worse than even South Carolina and Tennessee - no small accomplishment. In, or within a few miles of Corinth it was ok, but out in the country it was hard to go more than a few miles without a good chase. I could also go into southern pick-up truck drivers, but that's another story.

Riding more happily in WI,
Blwyn

If acop has decided to give you a ticket, there is no way you can talk him out of it, but if he hasnt made up his mind, it is only too easy to talk him into giving you one, so always admit your errors and be polite.

Speaking from a bike cops point of view I treat both motorist and cyclist the same regarding traffic laws. The way I see it if cyclist are going to demand the equal rights to the road as cars do(which they are entitled to and deserve) then they need to follow the same rules of the road. If motorist continue to see cyclist just slow down to under XX mph for a stop sign or running a red light when there is a gap in traffic they will continue to see us as a bunch of little kids in adult bodies who shouldn't be out riding in the street.


Mike

Originally posted by bikecop
Speaking from a bike cops point of view I treat both motorist and cyclist the same regarding traffic laws. The way I see it if cyclist are going to demand the equal rights to the road as cars do(which they are entitled to and deserve) then they need to follow the same rules of the road. If motorist continue to see cyclist just slow down to under XX mph for a stop sign or running a red light when there is a gap in traffic they will continue to see us as a bunch of little kids in adult bodies who shouldn't be out riding in the street.


Mike

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!! :thumbup:

Originally posted by bikecop
Speaking from a bike cops point of view I treat both motorist and cyclist the same regarding traffic laws. The way I see it if cyclist are going to demand the equal rights to the road as cars do(which they are entitled to and deserve) then they need to follow the same rules of the road. If motorist continue to see cyclist just slow down to under XX mph for a stop sign or running a red light when there is a gap in traffic they will continue to see us as a bunch of little kids in adult bodies who shouldn't be out riding in the street.


Mike
there you go, it could not be explained in a more simple language

Couldn't have said it better myself...:D

Rich

Blwyn, ASRM?

I dunno... I loathe the popo as much as any other deviant out there... but like with all people your mileage may vary. It just seems to me that the only time they want to talk to me is when I'm doing something funny. Like riding through uppity neighborhoods after midnight. Even with my blinkies on... once on my own street no less. I think they believe anyone riding a bike at night is up to something... probably drinking, probably on two wheels because they lost their driver's license. Alas... when I had a car it was the same deal... lonely late night streets, see a cop... you are getting stopped. Never been stopped by a bike cop though... hehe, I'd like to see them catch me on those clunky machines they patrol on.

MisterJ: CSIP (since changed, but I don't know to what).

I have been given warnings for running stop signs, and speeding in school zones. The later I am most proud of since I was on an old chromo mtn bike. The weirdest thing I got pulled over for though... I was right across the street from one of my favorite lunch spots, when 2 cop cars, and 2 motorcycle cops surrounded me. It was a case of mistaken identity, and then one asked to take my bike for a test drive.

lin-kieu
I don't see your complaint. You did not get a ticket you got a butt chewing for running the sign. Take it like a man. You obviously did not see the cop on the road so you could just as easily have missed the car that would have hit you. If you did see mr policman and ran the sign anyway thats really asking for trouble.
I have found with most of the police I run into they are extremely proffessional and have only spoken to me when I have screwed up and this one did use commensense he did not ticket you he only gave you a warning. As for the drivers license thing everyone has a different interpretation of laws thats why we have courts. He probably was not BSing you he reads the law that way. Put a law book in front of 5 people you will get 5 different views.
It comes down to (and this is a mouldy oldy ) " Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"