Living Car Free - ever notice...

how odd some things seem after being car free a while?

i bike for almost everything but use my roomates car on occasion - i filled it up with gas for him and realized what a novelty the process was. paying, then selecting the grade and filling it up!! i laughed because it's been like two months since i've been to a gas station. when you rarely do something it's actually interesting

and this morning my co-workers radio playing a traffic report, i can't remember the last time i've actually listened to a traffic report to plan my route to work.

At the Gas Pump! Absolutely! Was there a couple weeks ago. Borrowed a truck to move some stuff. Being a good borrower, of course I'm returning it with a full tank (pricey these days, too). Must have taken me five minutes to pump the gas. Had to read all the instructions, go back into the cab for my bank card, etc. Luckily the place wasn't busy—somebody would have been checking my head for exit wounds.

I DO like to watch the morning traffic reports, though, and think 'Poor cagers, quite a lineup for the bridge—looks like another care-free commute for me, though.'

i find the morning traffic report very entertaining. but since i dont have to deal with that stuff i have the luxury of viewing it like a soap opera. hey konageezer, are from vancouver bc or vancouver, wa?

It's probably been over a year since I used a gas pump. It might have been much more than that though. I can't remember.

My contribution is hearing about people talking about looking for parking spots. Apparently, a big part of owning a car is finding a place to park it. People at work talk about how many blocks away they had to park, and how they come an hour early so they can be a couple of blocks closer to work.

Me? I park closer than any of them in the same spot every day.

Another odd thing I find. When you go to a mall with someone in their cars, they will spend up to 5 minutes driving around to find the closest parking spot to the door. Then when they don't find any spot close by, they have to park farther into the parking lot and walk it anyways...

Another odd thing I find. When you go to a mall with someone in their cars, they will spend up to 5 minutes driving around to find the closest parking spot to the door. Then when they don't find any spot close by, they have to park farther into the parking lot and walk it anyways...
Not always true. I personally PARK defensively because I actually care about my cars. I try to find a "quiet" corner spot FAR away from the entrance of the mall. By doing this, I hope to minimize door dings & scratches.

But I have no idea how you guys do it car free......don't you guys go on vacation? Take short weekend trips? Take road trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? I personally love driving and there is no way anyone can take my car away from me.

And don't even bother saying how much money a car cost.....I know. I bet I pay a higher insurance premium than 95% of people on this board. Don't think so? Try me.

aarrg!! you hit my biggest amusing pet peeve

when my four co-workers and myself go for lunch we always do this. there's a wide open sea of spaces on island over, yet every driver, rolls right up to the front 6-8 rows and circles

same in a parking garage. i make a bee line for the roof - or, go the opposite direction the way all cars are going.

i share a car with my partner. for a two person family, both adults it's great. benefit of a car when i need, yet i still bike to work. it's been a huge financial benefit. one insurance payment, gas for one car, oil change for one. and the miles aren't much more, as when i do use the car it's just for small errands, like to home depot.

once in a while i'll rent a car for the day if something conflicts, and it's $33 dollars at the local enterprise. not much more than a long cab ride.

for a single car free person wanting to go up to the mountains, or hiking, i think renting is the best! most car free people are in urban areas, and local (non-airport), locations are very affordable, and not very busy. every downtown has a budget or avis or whatever, plus you can select a truck, or car, depending on your need

even renting two weekends a month would be cheap than most peoples car payments and insurance.. of course it's a little more if under 25

i like road trips too - but on empty roads :) even driving into the mountains here in colorado is miserable some weekends because I-70 is so congested, and that's one of the most beautiful drives in the world.

does anyone else rely on rentals occasionaly?

<<But I have no idea how you guys do it car free......don't you guys go on vacation? Take short weekend trips? Take road trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? I personally love driving and there is no way anyone can take my car away from me.>>

i find the morning traffic report very entertaining. but since i dont have to deal with that stuff i have the luxury of viewing it like a soap opera. hey konageezer, are from vancouver bc or vancouver, wa?

There's a vancouver wa? Seriously, I've been through there, going to Portland, of all places. Nice town. I enjoyed what I like to call "the historicalness" of the place.

I am from the other Vancouver. Not so much historicalness, but hey.

But I have no idea how you guys do it car free......don't you guys go on vacation?
Yes. Bike, bus, train, or plane.


Take short weekend trips?
Yes.


Take road trips?
Yes. Road bicycling trips.


Hiking trips?
No.


Camping trips?
I've got one planned in a couple of weeks. I'm taking a bus.

Not always true. I personally PARK defensively because I actually care about my cars. I try to find a "quiet" corner spot FAR away from the entrance of the mall. By doing this, I hope to minimize door dings & scratches.

But I have no idea how you guys do it car free......don't you guys go on vacation? Take short weekend trips? Take road trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? I personally love driving and there is no way anyone can take my car away from me.

And don't even bother saying how much money a car cost.....I know. I bet I pay a higher insurance premium than 95% of people on this board. Don't think so? Try me.


I do take vacations, Greyhound can take you places too... If I had a license I could rent a car, but sometimes I just go with a friend who rents a car. I am actually going on a camping trip this weekend, except I'm biking there with my burley nomad trailer.

Nobody's trying to take your car away here. :) We are discussing a car free lifestyle. that doesn't mean NEVER driving a car (or being a passenger in one). Some chose to go that way, but that's their choice.

Not always true. I personally PARK defensively because I actually care about my cars. I try to find a "quiet" corner spot FAR away from the entrance of the mall. By doing this, I hope to minimize door dings & scratches.

But I have no idea how you guys do it car free......don't you guys go on vacation? Take short weekend trips? Take road trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? I personally love driving and there is no way anyone can take my car away from me.

And don't even bother saying how much money a car cost.....I know. I bet I pay a higher insurance premium than 95% of people on this board. Don't think so? Try me.

if you feel that way then why the hell are you posting here. take you car and drive away from this board troll

But I have no idea how you guys do it car free......don't you guys go on vacation? Take short weekend trips? Take road trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? I personally love driving and there is no way anyone can take my car away from me.



For many of us, car free means free of car ownership, not use. I maintain a driver's license and rent a car if I really need one, but that is rare. Most of my longer vacations are to Europe, funded through the money I save not having a car payment, fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc. Sometimes I take my bike with me, sometimes I go really light and train everywhere. My weekend trips are hopping flights to visit places around the USA and Canada. I get to/from the airport by bus which lets me off right at the terminal door, meaning no parking fees at the airport lots. I love to travel, and contrary to what many people think, being car-free has allowed me to travel much more than I did when I owned a car.
Honestly, I'm not a skinflint. I simply choose to direct my limited disposable income elsewhere than a motor vehicle which I wouldn't use that much anyway. I haven't had a car in four years and for me, it has been a discovery of new found freedom. I'm sure others would have a great deal more difficulty living car-free. I happened to find a way to make it work for me.

If you feel that way than why the hell are you posting here. take your car and drive away from this board troll.

Amen, brother!

For many of us, car free means free of car ownership, not use.
Point very well taken. Speaking about living car-free, I can't think of another better City to do that than in NYC. I personally have 2 cars & 4 bikes (well, 3 now since I sold one).....I drive about 12,000 a year between two cars (I only drive on the weekends). Although I'm paying up the nose for insurance, I still can't justify not owning a car. The convenience of ownership is very important to me. This past month alone, I've driven my bikes up to MA for rides as well as driving Upstate to hike. In a few weeks, we are camping and I'm driving there with all my gear (including my my bike & my wife's bike).

The only way I can really enjoy biking is if I drive AWAY from the city into a nice part of the burbs to bike. And I will not give that up.

http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/500/12916Zoar_001.jpg
http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/data/500/12916Zoar_003.jpg

Again, thank you for articulating your point across in such a polite manner.

Same goes for most of the members who responded to me. :)

if you feel that way then why the hell are you posting here. take you car and drive away from this board troll


Amen, brother!

Awww, did I pinch a nerve? I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was trolling when I simply replied BenyBen's post. I just wanted him to know that NOT ALL driver do that. I guess if you consider that trolling, then I guess I'm trolling.

Btw, I've been a member on this board since 2002 and I posted more than both of you. Don't normal "trolls" come and try to stir things up and leave?

Oh and the comment about "take you car and drive away from this board troll", why don't you try to be a little more mature and respectful of others in this community? I mean, you should be lucky that I'm a cyclist & a driver. At least I'm looking out for cyclists when I drive. I stop when I see someone getting a flat to ask if they need help. I also drive next to them and "PROTECT" them if I see that it's a dangerous stretch of road (this way cars behind me won't run him/her over). Of course I ask if he/she minds.....most of the time, they say "thank you" and ride along side me and sometimes they'll ask me if I mind if they draft off me (after they know I also ride) I usually give them the thumbs up and drive at a constant speed (slowly accelerating).

Is it wrong to love both cycling and driving? I spent thousands on bikes the past 3 years. I've also spent thousands on "racing school" (Skip Barber) to enhance my driving skills & to learn how to be a safer driver.

If that's wrong, please tell me why.

Buying gas *is* weird, because I was car free for a long time then got a scooter, and I was always buying gas when the only use I had for gas stations before that was which ones had air for my bike tires lol.

The searching for a parking space thing is weird too.

To me it's weird that people don't ding each others' cars up MORE, and that something supposed to be functional like a car "has" to have a shiny paint job. That's just bizarre.

Eating in a car is bizarre and I won't do it (ok maybe if starving) and eating while driving is such a no-no with me, I've never done it. Maybe once or twice as a kid, as a passenger.

And I see no problem with renting a car if needed or wanted, or renting a truck or whatever.

I may be car-free very soon, yippeee! And this means I'll certainly be renting a truck if I move, and renting a car if I want to take a trip somewhere etc that's a long distance, stay awhile kind of thing. But around here, going around by bike rules!

To me it's weird that people don't ding each others' cars up MORE, and that something supposed to be functional like a car "has" to have a shiny paint job. That's just bizarre.
Same can be said about bikes. Some people have real beat up bikes and others have shiny, really well maintained bikes. It's sad to say, but I see more beat up bikes than shiny bikes (same goes for cars).

This is the same reason why I have two cars. One for utility & hauling the bikes around and the other for myself to enjoy. I don't eat in it & I wash it when it's dirty.

And for those who say "rent". Yes, that's a smart thing to do since you're not paying for insurance & maintenance for the time that you don't use it. However, if renting is you only interaction with cars, you have no idea what you're missing. Please don't judge "cars" from the crappy rentals you get......that's the same as someone who buys a Walmart bike and says that bikes are heavy & difficult to ride.

A person riding a Walmart bike probably has no idea what he's missing, same goes for someone who has only driven rentals. I was in BOTH these categories. I used to drive an old beat up car and had no idea what a "real" car is capable of. I used to ride "Huffy" and had no idea what a "real" bike is capable of.

Try driving a BMW or a Lexus or a sporty Vette. Take it on a nice mountain road and it'll be difficult for me to believe you didn't enjoy the ride (well, I guess it's possible if you're not a car person). Same goes for a bike. I challenge someone who is riding a Walmart bike to ride a higher end bike (Trek, Specialized, C'Dale, etc.) down a nice smooth curvy road and it'll be hard to believe if that person will not enjoy the ride.

But I guarentee you that rental cars vs. near luxury (or luxury cars) are day & night.......same as Huffy vs. Lightspeed.

Wow Cadd if you're putting on 12000 miles a year just on weekends, you probably are coming out OK owning, as opposed to renting, you sound like you've done the math and know it well.

I put more like 7k a year on my car and almost all of it errends that can be done by bike. The tiny bit that's left, can be done by bike trailer or just a pull-wagon.

Oh, and a rental Neon with a V6 in it I drove once was pretty fun, read around on the bimmer.org forums and you'll find a few bimmer owners admitting they got dusted in autocross by those....

Your posts are off-topic. This forum and this thread especially is not intended to talk about how much we love cars and how we like to park them or how we use cars to bicycle. It was a rather troll-like response. If you have any questions, please PM me or any of the moderators. Thanks.

Let's keep the attitude and the spirit of this forum intact.




Awww, did I pinch a nerve? I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was trolling when I simply replied BenyBen's post. I just wanted him to know that NOT ALL driver do that. I guess if you consider that trolling, then I guess I'm trolling.

Btw, I've been a member on this board since 2002 and I posted more than both of you. Don't normal "trolls" come and try to stir things up and leave?

Oh and the comment about "take you car and drive away from this board troll", why don't you try to be a little more mature and respectful of others in this community? I mean, you should be lucky that I'm a cyclist & a driver. At least I'm looking out for cyclists when I drive. I stop when I see someone getting a flat to ask if they need help. I also drive next to them and "PROTECT" them if I see that it's a dangerous stretch of road (this way cars behind me won't run him/her over). Of course I ask if he/she minds.....most of the time, they say "thank you" and ride along side me and sometimes they'll ask me if I mind if they draft off me (after they know I also ride) I usually give them the thumbs up and drive at a constant speed (slowly accelerating).

Is it wrong to love both cycling and driving? I spent thousands on bikes the past 3 years. I've also spent thousands on "racing school" (Skip Barber) to enhance my driving skills & to learn how to be a safer driver.

If that's wrong, please tell me why.

Your posts are off-topic. This forum and this thread especially is not intended to talk about how much we love cars and how we like to park them or how we use cars to bicycle. It was a rather troll-like response. If you have any questions, please PM me or any of the moderators. Thanks.

Let's keep the attitude and the spirit of this forum intact.
You got it dude. I don't think I disrespected anyone here. If I did, I do apologize.

One question....
Was this comment directed towards me?
Let's keep the attitude and the spirit of this forum intact.
or was it directed towards the member who wrote posted the below?

if you feel that way then why the hell are you posting here. take you car and drive away from this board troll


JAMES,
I'm sorry that I took your thread OT. That wasn't my intention. Perhaps, I can start a thread about cars in another section of the forums and maybe a poll to see how many miles people drive annually.

Try driving a BMW or a Lexus or a sporty Vette. Take it on a nice mountain road and it'll be difficult for me to believe you didn't enjoy the ride (well, I guess it's possible if you're not a car person).
But I guarentee you that rental cars vs. near luxury (or luxury cars) are day & night.......same as Huffy vs. Lightspeed.

Okay, I'll bite. Haven't driven a BMW, Lexus or sporty vette on a mountain road, but I have owned a Volvo and Mercedes Benz and driven those on mountain roads. I haven't been into cars in a few years, but I imagine they are still considered luxury and rate above the typical rental car. For the amount of money and effort I shelled out keeping those babies running on the road, it just wasn't worth the occasional thrill from winding down mountain roads, especially considering those mountain roads were just as likely to have significant traffic from others looking for the thrill of winding down mountain roads. Now if you want to talk about a REAL thrill, forget the car and take a motorcycle on that mountain road. Having once used motorcycles as my primary means of transportation, I can tell you from experience that there is nooooo comparison. :eek:
Your analogy of a wal-mart bike versus a higher end bike is right on target. I am often explaining to wal-mart riders that part of their problems is not the cycling itself, but from what they are cycling on.
I think it is more important that people are not so much car-free, but less car dependent. Your posts indicated you do not drive during the week. I would say that pretty much means you have found a way to live less car dependent than others. As I have said in these forums before, I know many people that routinely bike 60+ miles for training, but it never occurs to them to bike one mile for a simple errand or go to a movie. There are many couples that maintain two motor vehicles when their needs could be perfectly served by only one, freeing up significant resources for other things which they think they can not afford due to the necessity of maintaining that extra car.

The most important part of the news for me is now the weather report! I spend more time analyzing the weather channel and its reports than I do watching the local news.

Koffee

You got it dude. I don't think I disrespected anyone here. If I did, I do apologize.

One question....
Was this comment directed towards me?
or was it directed towards the member who wrote posted the below?


We want this forum to be about car-free living. We need to be civil to one another. This goes out to everyone, including you and others. Thanks.

PurpleK, I rode a Honda F4 (600) for a while and I agree with you 110%! A REAL THRILL! But that's too dangerous......hence the reason I got into cycling.......slower than a motorbike, yet, I'm able to feel the wind in my hair and the road in my butt :)


As I have said in these forums before, I know many people that routinely bike 60+ miles for training, but it never occurs to them to bike one mile for a simple errand or go to a movie.
I'm sure you heard this from others before......but *I think* the main reason people are willing to ride 60 miles for training and not to the movies or to the supermarket is because the fear of vandalism or thief. When I ride, the only way someone's going to take my bike away from me is by pushing me off it.

However, if I go to the supermarket or the movies, my bike is not guaranteed to be out there when I come back out.

This is the NUMBER 1 reason I don't commute to work. At first, I used to bring my bike into the office. Security gave me a hard time. They wanted me to lock it up on the street. They told me it was a fire hazard because of the wheels, the metal, etc :rolleyes: I told him that there are at least 2 people in the building that I see daily utilizing a wheelchair. I asked if that was a fire hazard as well? If it is, I asked if I should express my concern with FDNY or head of security. He didn't give me an answer, but I was told that I will not be allowed in the building again with my bike (this is the World Financial Center in NYC.....next to what used to be the WTC).

I don't have a super expensive bike (when compared to most folks on BF), but it's expensive enough to me......and I would be heart-broken if it was stolen. I would love to ride to the supermarket, but what do I do with it? Leave it out? Lock it up? I live in Brooklyn, NY.......it's not one of the best neighborhoods around. Here's a recent incident http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=116470

I hope I was able to shed some light on the subject. And I think this is the MAIN reason why people don't run errands or commute via bike.

Most definitely.

I wrote in the first thread in this forum the need to NOT make this the car-hating forum. This is supposed to be an informative forum for people to discuss their car free needs, concerns, questions, etc.

Car haters can head to Safety and Advocacy... or better yet, take it off the forums.

Thanks.

Koffee Brown

Forum Moderator

I'm sure you heard this from others before......but *I think* the main reason people are willing to ride 60 miles for training and not to the movies or to the supermarket is because the fear of vandalism or thief. When I ride, the only way someone's going to take my bike away from me is by pushing me off it.

folding. bike. I bought a Brompton folder because I was going on a business trip to Manhattan for 2 weeks, and the thought of no bike for 2 weeks at that time was enough to make me cough up the cash. I've since ridden that bike in the 5 borough ride and similar, and it has paid for itself in cab/train/bus fare savings. I never carry a lock with it because it goes wherever I do - movie theaters, nice restaurants, grocery stores, etc. Doormen don't register it as a bike when folded. Folds in seconds to carry-on luggage dimensions, pops into a shopping basket, or just use its front bag as your cart.

That's why I see quite a few people with folding bikes around here! That's actually a pretty damn smart idea!

Did you do this year's 5 Borough Bike tour? Not for nothing, but there were a lot of folding bikes there.....more so than recumbents.

I'm sure you heard this from others before......but *I think* the main reason people are willing to ride 60 miles for training and not to the movies or to the supermarket is because the fear of vandalism or thief. When I ride, the only way someone's going to take my bike away from me is by pushing me off it.

However, if I go to the supermarket or the movies, my bike is not guaranteed to be out there when I come back out.


Sure, some people probably don't want to ride for errands due to fear of theft. However, that is a much more valid argument someplace like New York City where bike thieves have raised their craft to an art form. (There is a reason why the original Krypto guarantee was not valid in NYC!) For most of the civilized USA, bike thieves are not as sophisticated and would not be willing to spend the time necessary to pry open a u-lock on a bike locked up to a pole in a high visibility location. This very moment, my bike is locked on a rack in an outside plaza open to the public, still with computer, lights, pump, seat bag, mirror, etc. on it. I've been doing this for years and no one has ever so much as touched my bike. I even have the option of parking my bike in a basement under supervision of a security guard or even in my office, but the outside plaza rack is easier to get to and leave without having to deal with elevators, etc. My point is that the bicycle community where I live does not have to be as concerned with bike theft than where you live, so it is probably not a major factor in deciding whether or not to ride the bike to the market. I know many cyclists in this city, and none have ever had a bike stolen that I am aware of. (After having said that, I'll probably go outside and my bike will be gone.)

Purple, I see your point. When I leave NYC, I have to start letting my guard down slowly. I don't know if you've ever met anyone on vacation from NYC before......we DON'T TRUST ANYONE!

If you have the option of having your bike in a secured location, please do it. It seems to be also protected from the elements as well. Don't take a chance man. All it takes is one bad apple and your stuff could be gone.

Did you do this year's 5 Borough Bike tour?

No. 2002.

There are less expensive folders that probably ride better than Bromptons, but nobody can compete in the quick/small fold department, and that, in my opinion, makes all the difference in actually using it as a go-everywhere pocket bike, sans lock, as I do. I'm currently lusting after the new models with titanium bits, shaving off several pounds....

Yeah Koffee I pay a lot of attention to weather reports--especially wind speed and direction. Nobody else seems to care much! Another thing--last winter I stopped to help co-workers scrape snow and ice off their car windows. I don't miss doing that several times a day, but it was kind of fun to help out once in a while. Other times it was nice to ride past them shouting "Idon't have to do that!!!!" And to think, they feel sorry for me!

P.S. It is surprising that people would find it appropriate to post about loving their car on a car-free board. Cadd should feel welcome to read posts here, but we're not interested in how much he loves cars! I hope he and others, who maybe at least want to be less dependent on autos, will continue to read and get some good ideas. I don't know if he meant it as a joke, but it was pretty funny when he "bragged" about spending more on auto insurance than 95 %on th board. Dude...95% of us don't spend anything on insurance. Who has the last laugh? :) :D Thanks for sharing!

My sister-in-law rushed me out of the house for a morning ride before I had a chance to view the weather channel reports. She was insisting that we didn't need it... until we hit those killer winds on the way back and then she was wishing I'd gotten the wind direction! :D

Koffee

hahaha! Yeah, at the office, ppl ask ME the weather. :)

And by habit I tell them the wind direction... lol

been working a lot so i haven't been at my computer in awhile. just yesterday i got to ride past gridlock on the i-5 bridge. i waved and smiled. anyway, i dont think what i wrote to cadd was immature. it was concise and to the point. why is he talking about his love of the automoblie(that he uses to go on recreational rides)in the car free forums. cadd, you sound like an arrogant yuppie. furthermore, on the reasons i brought up having a car free forum was so that discussion like this didnt occur anymore, so that people could discuss car free issues without people like cadd posting. and whats so wrong with posting about not likeing automobiles and the attendant lifestyle/culture. i sure wouldn;t want to post it in advocaby where it would get turned into an argument.

hahaha! Yeah, at the office, ppl ask ME the weather. :)

And by habit I tell them the wind direction... lol

My brother frequently asks me what the weather will be like for the day. I can tell him nearly verbatim the forecast, since I usually watch it two or three times so I'm clear what the day may end up looking like. :D

Koffee

.........anyway, i dont think what i wrote to cadd was immature. it was concise and to the point. why is he talking about his love of the automoblie(that he uses to go on recreational rides)in the car free forums. cadd, you sound like an arrogant yuppie.
SS, I don't know if you read Koffee's initial post on this forum....but in case you missed it, here it is.

.....Feel free to discuss your car free concerns here... but keep in mind, this is NOT the forum for discussion about multi-use paths, arguing about your problems with cars, SUV's etc. or to flame people who drive. It's the spot for people to discuss getting around without cars, utility trailers, living without the car, etc.....
I don't know if you read the agreement when you signed up with BF 7 months ago, but do believe that it's not looked highly upon when you attack fellow members.

Anyway, do YOU understand why I posted what I did? I replied to BenyBen. Additionally, I was curious how everyone (who is car-free) got around without a car. Obviously, I know public transportation plays a major role (I take it 5 days a week myself). But what really baffles me is life without a car when it comes to trips & mini-vacations. Many people answered my question politely (train, Greyhound, plane, etc.). There is no need for hostility. I don't believe I was one who initiated this conflict between us.

OFF TOPIC: Additionally, you have your own opinions & I have mine. It's "OK" if we don't agree. I respectfully agree that we have our disagreements. However, if your opinion is that I'm an "arrogant yuppie" after reading ONE of my post, then so be it. But I don't think anyone can really make a judgment without actually knowing someone. I hope you can be more open minded. If you decide to come and visit the big apple, please give me a call. I hope I can prove to you that I'm the LAST THING from being an "arrogrant yuppie" (to tell you the truth, I really don't know what you're implying? That I'm rich? Well, just a little history for you.....our family was on foodstamps & welfare when we came to this great country back in the early 80s). I worked for everything I have (which isn't much.....but I'm still working hard). Again, I extend my hands out and offer you to meet me in person when if/when you come to NYC for a visit and I hope I can make a better impression in person.

No more conflict from me.

Koffee, if you believe that I stepped over the line, please PM me to let me know & I will delete all my post in this forum. I know this forum was created to chat about a car-free lifestlye. But I also beleive that "curious" automobile drivers have the right to come in and check it out and also provide their opinion, concern and ask questions as well. If this is not the case, please let me know.

curiouys yes, proud automobile drivers-no

...Snip...

I know this forum was created to chat about a car-free lifestlye. But I also beleive that "curious" automobile drivers have the right to come in and check it out and also provide their opinion, concern and ask questions as well. If this is not the case, please let me know.

That sounds fair to me. Someone can be a proud car owner and still be open minded about the car free lifestyle I think. Cadd, I simply think some of your posts where slightly defensive of your car driving habits...




The only way I can really enjoy biking is if I drive AWAY from the city into a nice part of the burbs to bike. And I will not give that up.


Perhaps if you came around with something like "how do carfree ppl in NYC do it when they want to go out of town to enjoy biking out of the city?" Maybe there is a cheap train system/convenient greyhound who can take you out of there? You could also learn from doing this (train/greyhound outside of the city to cycle) at least once, if you haven't allready.

Remember, you're talking on a board where a lot of ppl DID give up cars (or never had one).

Now, let's all shake hands and be friends? :)

Beny,

I guess I was defensive about cars (hey, I would also defend bicycles on my car message boards too if someone bashes bikes or cyclists).

Anyway, I already looked into taking train rides up North (Metro North) where there are some great roads for riding. But I do feel it is inconvenient. I would have to pack my gear (& my wife's gear) get on the Subway (which is horrible on the weekends), take it out to the City to Grand Central and catch a Metro North train.

Truth be told, I would rather throw the bikes & gear into the back of my car & drive to where ever I want to ride and park the car and start riding.....but hey, that's me.....I enjoy driving as well, so it's a win-win situation for me.

I really give big thumbs up for people who gave up their cars (TWO thumbs up to those who don't live in a large city).

We should all probably bear in mind that this great site has many forums. Some of these might be more suitable for some of the posts I'm reading here, including Safety & Advocacy, Commuting, Politics & Religion, and even FOO.

If I correctly read the original threads leading up to the creation of this forum, the consensus was to make "Living Car Free" into an apolitical (if that's really possible) forum for cyclists who have either acheived a carfree lifestyle or are striving toward it. My understanding is that this is supposed to be a forum for practical questions, "how-to" tips, general observations, and support or encouragement.

If I misunderstood, somebody please set me on the right path.

I have probably been car-free for longer than most contributing to this particular sub-forum, and I abhor idealogues and the fundamentalists who are unable to accept other people's points of view, either by summary dismissal or name-calling.

I'm sorry SS and others, but I actually think Cadd has a point that at least is worth contributing to this forum and at most generating discussion on WHY people may not find car-free being so attactive.

I thought better of you, SS. But if you want to run this sub-forum as a despot, I might find somewhere else to go to contribute.

That's a good point - by default we WANT a lot of car drivers in here, learning the how-tos. And they may not want to be carfree, but they might want to know what to do if they lose their car or one of them and can't afford to replace it right away, or if gas rationing comes in, or whatever.

Otherwise we might have asked it to be called "The Anti Car Religion Forum" lol.

As long as we can keep it from becoming some kind of a religious battle, we need to hear why some people don't want to be car-free, to hear their side which usually comes down to a lack of the how-tos. Then, we can see if some how-tos are possible. Maybe they are, and may they aren't. If they aren't, can they be come up with? Can bike builders, trailer builders, etc., to talked to about? Do they read these forums? If we can keep it adult, they just might, for new ideas.

wow, is it a full moon or something?

anyway, in response to a post a while back in this thread, I do not own a car, but when I need one i rent it or, cuz I am lucky enough to have access to such a thing, borrow one from City Carshare, a Bay Area car-sharing program.

For vacations, I take a train or a plane to my destination and then use public transit or bring or rent a bike. I always find exploring a place on foot, on the bus, or, ideally, on a bike, is the best way to get to know it. Things go by too fast in a car.

In future years, when my partner and I have more time to travel, we hope to go on "road trips" with bikes. camping, or just exploring and staying in hotels. When I was 12 I was fortunate enough to go on a guided bike tour of the British Isles and I have been fantasizing about re-doing that with my partner. i am sure it would be a completely different experience.

I've only been car-free for two years (though leaning that way for a decade), and I grew up totally dependent on cars. I used to road-trip a lot. And while I was very happy to finally lose the car, I have been sort of surprised at how little I miss it, especially for things like road trips. I think that the closer distance radius that transport by bike inspires has led me to acquaint myself more intimately with my immediate environs. I begin to understand what it was like in the times before cars, when travelling 20 miles was really quite an undertaking.

The most important part of the news for me is now the weather report! I spend more time analyzing the weather channel and its reports than I do watching the local news.

Koffee

Ive hit phase two of that myself, used to look at every weather report and radar map I could get on the net each day, now I dont even care.I stick my head out the window, maybe check weather radar, and start riding.Weather used to really bother me, especially rain, now its just something that makes each day different and interesting.After being soaked in downpours,having lightning hit poles nearby, and being sleeted,hailed,and snowed on while riding I found out I wont melt, it really is ok, and I cant change it anyway !!

Ive hit phase two of that myself, used to look at every weather report and radar map I could get on the net each day, now I dont even care.I stick my head out the window, maybe check weather radar, and start riding.Weather used to really bother me, especially rain, now its just something that makes each day different and interesting.After being soaked in downpours,having lightning hit poles nearby, and being sleeted,hailed,and snowed on while riding I found out I wont melt, it really is ok, and I cant change it anyway !!

I would be like this myself, except I'm not concerned about myself, mostly just the bike. As you well know, repeated exposure to rain without cleaning can be rather harsh on multi-speed bikes. Of course, that doesn't affect you. :) But if I know it's going to be a wet day, I take my crappy bike.

I use to have a car, so I know what having a car is like, and belive me for some people it is more hassel then it is worth, I was driving less then 2k a year, but I still have do pay $78 a month for the insureance, I did not have to pay much for the gas though since I had to fill up once every or every other month. I still had to pay the insurance when I stopped driving the car, I was happy the day I ditched the car, and was able to legaly able to cancle the insurance, I can think of many many things I would like to spend that $78 a month on instead of the car. As to vacations, don't get much of a chance for that, I only get 17 days off a year, and that includes vacation and sick days, so I can not really use them for vacations unless I don't get sick that year.

god...this forum has been up for what, a few days, and the fur is already flying! guys...the happy pills are under the keyboard, take two call me in the morning....sheesh.

Seriously though, car-free living is not hard at all, it's all a matter of importance.

If getting a giant ficus for your living room is super important, go rent that truck for a day. If it's not...or to you not worth renting over, let it go until it is reasonable.

OR....

...build up a bike that can haul it as well :D

...that's the route I am moving to slowly....working on building a very tough 26" touring bike that I'm going to drop all kinds of racks, etc onto so I can haul stuff around, go shopping etc. Only tough part is I want downtube 9-sp shimano (I already have most of the parts except shifters and cantis).

For me though, anything in the area is fair game for me to get to on my bike. For carrying stuff, I just use my messenger bag for now...I can stuff an entire week's groceries in it with no problems at all.

90% of living car-free is just a matter of doing it. Don't ditch the car yet, just drive it less and less until you haven't used it for a few months at all, then take the full plunge.