View Full Version : Bicyclist self-defense?
77Univega
06-24-05, 09:27 PM
--- The thread entitled "Scared for my Life" elicited a lot of responses. I saw an ad for a video for sale, http://cyclistdefense.com, but it occurs to me that the same information should be available as a public service.
Does anyone know which bicycling advocacy groups publish practical education on how cyclists can self-defend from criminal assault?
Many neighborhood groups, community colleges, adult education, and private martial arts schools offer self-defense classes. Check your newspaper, yellow pages, and internet.
Why would they need to have special classes just for cyclists? Anybody can take these classes.
pacman76
06-25-05, 04:57 PM
Many neighborhood groups, community colleges, adult education, and private martial arts schools offer self-defense classes. Check your newspaper, yellow pages, and internet.
Why would they need to have special classes just for cyclists? Anybody can take these classes.
it might be that having to deal with dismounting and/or mounting a bike, or just having to manage the machine in the process of defending yourself requires an extra finess or moves that are demonstrated in these videos, but not in your average self-defense class. just food for thought.
i looked at the web site and it looks like its marketing a little bit to the american upper- and middle-class paranoiac to me. as it is, i'm not much of a self-defense person.
operator
06-25-05, 05:11 PM
Defending yourself from what. You can't defend yourself form a 1/2*m*v^2 of a car.
Snuffleupagus
06-25-05, 06:16 PM
The best defense is a strong set of legs and lungs, combined with strong situational awareness. Unless absolutley necessary, avoid conflict. Even the military teaches to "get out of the kill zone." Only a half-wit will stand and fight if there is any option for escape.
The best defense is a strong set of legs and lungs, combined with strong situational awareness. Unless absolutley necessary, avoid conflict. Even the military teaches to "get out of the kill zone." Only a half-wit will stand and fight if there is any option for escape.Amen. But some basic skills might make it easier to "get out of the kill zone." Like knowing how to escape from holds, maybe a little bit about pressure points, verbal skills, etc. You can be careful and be prepared without being paranoid.
Snuffleupagus
06-25-05, 07:49 PM
Amen. But some basic skills might make it easier to "get out of the kill zone." Like knowing how to escape from holds, maybe a little bit about pressure points, verbal skills, etc. You can be careful and be prepared without being paranoid.
Right you are. Verbal 'judo' and some basic skills are good to know.
spacefuzz
06-27-05, 12:50 PM
go to a martial arts school and ask about self defence seminars. just remember you might have to defend yourself wearing biking shoes with cleats so wont be able to run or kick. so dont get off the bike if you dont have too. if you ride with a frame pump that would make a good defense weapon.
Try aikido. It perfectly fits with cycling.
lilHinault
06-27-05, 09:18 PM
Aikido is good because it teaches you to roll when you fall, a good skill to have, I can say!
I'm wondering if I should take Krav Maga or something that can really teach me to hurt people, I want useful skills!
If it's legal in your state, carry a gun in your handlebar pack. If not, carry a knife. Hell, when I was in Arizona, I openly carried my .45 in a leg holster on my MC. Go ahead, make my day. :D
Aikido is good because it teaches you to roll when you fall, a good skill to have, I can say!
I'm wondering if I should take Krav Maga or something that can really teach me to hurt people, I want useful skills!
Believe me aikido could really hurt. As always, you just have to know what to do :). Aikido is not about rolls and falls, it's about using attacker's energy against the attacker.
But if you want to kill a person who is attacking you, then I'd say one of the so-called "hard" kung-fu styles would be a good choice :)
spacefuzz
06-28-05, 08:07 AM
Aikido is good because it teaches you to roll when you fall, a good skill to have, I can say!
I'm wondering if I should take Krav Maga or something that can really teach me to hurt people, I want useful skills!
all martial arts can hurt people and all are usefull in there own way. they just require different levels of skill. but dont carry a knife unless you know how to use it, if you start a knife fight you will get cut.
i agree knowing how to fall is excellent for bikers, when i crashed in a crit knowing how to fall and roll from jujitsu really saved me a lot of pain and maybe a broken collar bone.
Offhoff
06-29-05, 09:20 AM
Aikido was designed to fight an opponent wielding a sword. Therefore it is form that both controls the center and contains no attacks. It is simply about using the opponents energy to hurt them.
An Aikido master is one of the most difficult opponents one can face. Up there with Jeet Kun Do (developed by Bruce Lee) and Muay Thai, perhaps the most demanding martial art around.
I've studied Aikido and Okinawan Go-Ju Ryu Karate for a decade and can tell you that either would be highly efficient with or without bike shoes on. 99.999% of the world is not trained to fight AT ALL. Meaning that even if you have a few lessons your going to do much better then any other way.
Well not useful at all as a fighting form Capoeira is still my favourite martial art.
Jacobino
07-03-05, 08:49 PM
Has anyone ever needed bike self-defense? It seems like your speed, alertness, and maybe even the appearance of being healthy and fit would discourage a lot of attackers, and then you've got practically got a whole arsenal of weapons and shields when you consider your tools, your lock, and the bike itself.
I've biked in a lot of places where I'd be afraid to walk, but never had to defend myself. Has anyone ever been in a "bike self-defense" situation?
77Univega
07-03-05, 08:58 PM
Has anyone ever been in a "bike self-defense" situation?
---See the thread entitled "Scared for my life!" Dated June 21st. /www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=115649
ya its called U-lock upside their stupid head
rule number one, motorist exits vehicle and ive got no place to go, that is considered and act of war, my life is threatened and I will respond accordingly
Don Gwinn
07-04-05, 02:02 PM
1. Stay on the bike and run away.
2. If number one fails, get free of the bike. Use it as a fence if you can. If you can't, get away from it.
3. Weapons are your friends. Firearms are the most effective against deadly force. Pepper spray is useful as well. Knives are fine for people who know what they're for and what they're not. A knife is NOT a tool to be pulled out so you can engage in a duel with a thug who pulls a knife on you, for instance. But for a person stuck in an untenable position with someone larger, stronger, and maybe more skilled who clearly has bad intentions, a knife can be a great leveler as long as you have practiced enough to be able to deploy it when you're frightened, heart pumping, and twisted into a pretzel--or getting pounded.
4. Which martial art you study matters about a thousandth as much as HOW you learn it and how you practice it. Not to pick on Aikido, but most people who teach it couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. They train to "pull off moves" against compliant opponents. A real fight will begin before you're ready and it will be chaotic. You will NOT be in control in a real fight. If you want to be prepared for that, you have to practice that way. Boxing, wrestling, judo, jiu-jitsu, kickboxing and muay thai all have their limitations, but the advantage they offer is that the majority of people teaching those arts will put you in situations where you apply the ideas and techniques they teach you against someone who is genuinely trying to win just as hard as you are. That changes everything.
5. My recommendation would be Judo, even though I don't practice it. Judo is cheap, it's nearly ubiquitous, it will teach you throws (good for escape) and some groundfighting depending on where you practice it (good for escape when the worst has already happened and you're on the bottom.) It's also very rare to find a judo school where you don't work against people who are of similar skill and doing their very best to throw you before you can throw them. It won't teach you to take a punch, but a fit person with a year or two of judo under their belt is formidable.
FotoTomas
07-05-05, 12:04 AM
About 15 years ago while on a borrowed bike and riding on a sidewalk I was attacked by a person as I passed. I was struck hard by the assailant's arm as he attempted to knock me off the bike. I did not fall and recovered enought to call to my friend on the street (the bikes owner riding with me) and told him of the situation. He never saw the assault as he was ahead and on the road. We rolled on. I do not know why I was attacked nor do I care at this point.
As for now...I have taken several courses in defensive tactics through the agency where I work. In addition I took an extensive course on police cycling where the bike was demonstrated as an effective weapon in its own way. I also tend to pack a pistol and pepper spray where ever I go, even on the bike off duty.
All of this makes me more aware of my surroundings where I hope to never need any of what I know. Even so I practice often.
I think each and every cyclist should have some training in self defense with or on a bike. Like most forms of knowledge it could be invaluable if needed. :)
Don Gwinn
07-05-05, 08:19 AM
All of this makes me more aware of my surroundings where I hope to never need any of what I know.
MUCH more important that what specific type of Kung Phooey you practice.
KrisPistofferson
07-05-05, 10:44 AM
Ever seen a guy hit with a U-lock? ;)
I think each and every cyclist should have some training in self defense with or on a bike. Like most forms of knowledge it could be invaluable if needed. :)Do you think cyclists are at a greater risk than pedestrians? Why or why not?
http://www.hightechsafety.com/telescopic.htm
Or a knife, but use it like a fencer, not a thug.
Do you think cyclists are at a greater risk than pedestrians? Why or why not?
Yeah. We share the roads with cars, pedestrians do not. We are not as maneurable as people (i.e. can immediately stop and jump out of the way, etc.) And drivers can identify with pedestrians - after all, once they get out of their cars, they are pedestrians. However, they can go their entire lives without ever getting on a bicycle. And the only times I've seen pedestrians targeted was when (a) some punk teens were shooting paintballs at anyone (including bicyclists); or (b) some really fat whale of a woman is waddling down the street and people yell out obscenities at her.
Travelinguyrt
07-05-05, 03:16 PM
ALWAYS carry pepper spray or Mace
For action against a vehicle carry a small can of oven cleaner, looks like shaving foam but it can work wonders incontact with a painted vehicle surface
I carry also a small boat horn powered by a mini air preasure can works wonders to scare the S+++ out of lane hoggers, those who nose into cross walks, and in general traffic miscreants. sounds like a 90' yacht coming up the street or a 40 ton truk
Yeah. We share the roads with cars, pedestrians do not. We are not as maneurable as people (i.e. can immediately stop and jump out of the way, etc.) And drivers can identify with pedestrians - after all, once they get out of their cars, they are pedestrians. However, they can go their entire lives without ever getting on a bicycle. And the only times I've seen pedestrians targeted was when (a) some punk teens were shooting paintballs at anyone (including bicyclists); or (b) some really fat whale of a woman is waddling down the street and people yell out obscenities at her.Sorry, I meant to ask if cyclists are at a greater risk of street crimes and random violence than pedestrians. I ride through some very rough neighborhoods, in fact I both live and work in the high-crime inner city.I feel much safer when I'm riding my bike, compared to walking. I figure I can elude both criminals on foot and in cars, although a younger person on a bike would have a chance of catching me. I just wondered what the general opinion is, and especially what fototomas and other law enforcement types think.
FotoTomas
07-06-05, 09:39 PM
I would say that cyclist are less likely targets for general street crimes in most if not all locations. On the otherhand they are sometimes targeted. My partner is a retired NYPD Detective and told me of several incidents where street crime was directed at the cyclists in the city. People would knock them off the bikes and steal the bikes, as well as anything the riders had on them.
Most street crime is directed at pedestrians that appear to be weak or lost. It happens suddenly and often violently. Cyclist by their activity are less likely to be confronted unless they are in transition such as parking or walking the bike.
All of this is my opinion based on somewhat limited experience. Until I started to bike seriously on my on I did not keep up with info affecting cyclist.
Don Gwinn
07-06-05, 11:40 PM
Do you think cyclists are at a greater risk than pedestrians? Why or why not?
No. However, members of both groups are at greater risk than most of them would care to admit. There are no safe neighborhoods and no safe times of day, only safe people.
My sister was nearly abducted from a busy gas station in a good neighborhood at 1:00 in the afternoon in Springfield, IL. THERE ARE NO SAFE TIMES OR PLACES. Be a safe person!
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