Classic & Vintage - Reynolds 501 in the 1970:ties?

I been told that Reynolds 501 was used from 1984 onwards. If so, then a frame from 1970 cant be Reynolds 501, right?

right.... some people can't read well, and 531 looks like 501.

Its just that the seller insists that it is a 501.... strange...

Maybe he is wrong about the year? Maybe the decal's been partially scraped away? Maybe he put a Reynolds decal on a bike that may or may not be Reynolds tubing?

Maybe he is wrong about the year? Maybe the decal's been partially scraped away? Maybe he put a Reynolds decal on a bike that may or may not be Reynolds tubing?

First, he is a she :)
Second, she is first owner and the bike has been repainted but with decals 'transfered'.
Third, according to the picture It sure seems to me like a pre-84 frame.

Look for a serial number on the bike. Depending on the brand you might be able to use the serial number to get its correct age and material.

I think there was recently some discussion of this on CR list,
and IIRC 501 was marketed in France before it was generally
available.
then again, maybe I'm completely off base here (it could happen!).

marty

The 1970 Pro Sprint World Champion was Johnson from Australia and he rode for Carlton. The frame certainly does resemble a Carlton from that period, which were very similar to the Raleighs. I believe Carlton used the same the same serial number scheme as Raleigh, so you may be able to date it using the serial number codes on the Retro Raleighs website.

Assuming it is from the stated time period, it could be Reynolds 531, either butted or plain gauge, depending on the model level. 1970 is far too early for Reynolds 501. A check of the inner diameter of the seat tube should distinguish between the two 531 possibilities, with butted tubes running 27.0 mm or just over and plain gauge running in the mid 26 mm range. Anything in the 25mm range is almost certainly hi-tensile steel.

The other possibilty is Truwel tubing. According to my sources the 1970 team was Carlton-Truwel.

Ok, so, how bad is Truwel tubing? If it is that, and how to find out?

Ok, so, how bad is Truwel tubing? If it is that, and how to find out?

Since the original tubing decal is gone, I don't know of any way to tell. From what I've read Truwel (or Tru-Wel, I've seen it both ways) was good tubing. It was used by a number of reputable British manufacturers, notably Carlton and Dawes. During the period in question, Carlton even the gave the option of having their top line frame manufactured using Reynolds or Tru-Wel tubing.

Were you able to determine anything from the seat post diameter or serial number?

Since the original tubing decal is gone, I don't know of any way to tell. From what I've read Truwel (or Tru-Wel, I've seen it both ways) was good tubing. It was used by a number of reputable British manufacturers, notably Carlton and Dawes. During the period in question, Carlton even the gave the option of having their top line frame manufactured using Reynolds or Tru-Wel tubing.

Were you able to determine anything from the seat post diameter or serial number?

Havent recieved the frame yet, but I will post here as soon as I does. (ten days from now atleast)

Ok, I got the frame today, and I am getting nuts...

It has been repainted, a poor paintjob, you can see the rust (which the seller said note existed) underneath the paint. She has not masked the headset properly so there is paint on the both races in the head tube. The rest of the headset, races on the fork and so on is missing. The bottom bracket is missing the lockring and that side is thus painted with a thick coat of paint while the adjustable cub is screwed as far as it gets into the frame.
The paint is already falling of on some spots. The 'Carlton' sticker has moved after it was put on so there is a ugly mark where it sat before it slided 1 cm to the side. And the sticker is loose in some places and with a damage. Thats the reasons why I am bad right now. Looks almost like it has been painted with a brush, a really thick coat of paint. Ohh yes, there is something white on the bottom bracket shell, looks like paper stuck in the paint. And it looks like there is a nail going through the fork just over the hole for the front brake.

To the problem of finding out what it really is...
The seat tube is 25 mm something.
It is heavy as hell, 2.9 kg stated, could be correct.
Feels like it is a seam inside the seat tube and it is not butted. Atleast not what I can tell.
It got stamped dropouts with a serial on saying '294131'
Rear dropout spacing is 120 mm.

So, I dont know if I should laugh or cry. This is although clearly NOT what I expected.

Please give me some advice on what to do, and also what it can be. The seller stated it was a Carlton International 501. There is a sticker on it which she had not taken a picture of which says 'Specialist bicycle development. Ilkeston Raleigh England.' on the seat tube.

Argh, help!