Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Phil spec'ed bearings in Nashbar hub?

I'm pretty sure that this can be done. Does anyone know for a fact if this is true? Also, how much do they run? The Phil website is a bit confusing - I'm not sure how they price them.

I'd like to put Phil spec'ed bearings in my new Nashbar (formula/IRO) track hubs. Has anyone else done this?

once again (as far as myself and the forum can tell) the nashbar hubs are not IRO/formula. similar, but not the same. look closely.

the concept is sound. i think that someone on the forum did this with IRO hubs. it seems like a great idea, and i think you should go for it and let us know the result.

oh! now i feel like an idiot. I guess I missed that thread. Thanks for the FYI, though.

Yeah, i'll probably do it. They already feel pretty solid, but it would be nice rolling on Phil's bearings, though. I guess I should call Phil & see which ones I need.

once again (as far as myself and the forum can tell) the nashbar hubs are not IRO/formula. similar, but not the same. look closely.

the concept is sound. i think that someone on the forum did this with IRO hubs. it seems like a great idea, and i think you should go for it and let us know the result.

actually, i think i have some info about this; i saw a picture of a novatec hub (black) that had the smae cut-outs and shell as the nashbar hubs, so i did a little digging, and it looks like novatec and formula hubs are made by the same taiwanese company.

this was all pieced together from catalog listings and posts to various forums, so i can't prove anything though

Don't call Phil and ask about bearings on your Nashbar hubs. They probably won't know.

Pop them out and stamped on the bearing housing will be a number. This is the standard ISO (I think it's ISO...some standards body at any rate) cartridge bearing size.

Formula and Novatec are NOT the same company.

Formula Engineering Inc.
www.formulahubs.com

Novatec - also known as JoyTech.
www.joy-tech.com.tw

Or perhaps call Nashbar, they should be able to tell you the size, which is all you need. Once you have that, the Phil site is pretty detailed on which bearings to order for a specific size.

Another good choice for Bearings is NTN Bearings. They are probably nicer than Phil bearings (more expensive though). The good thing about NTN though is that you can likely find them in most major cities in North America. Again, all you need is the size of your Nashbar bearings.

Formula and Novatec are NOT the same company.

Formula Engineering Inc.
www.formulahubs.com

Novatec - also known as JoyTech.
www.joy-tech.com.tw

good to know, thank you.

So when you find out what the size is, can you post it? Please!

As trevor said, look at the bearing seal very closely, you'll probably have to remove the wheel froom the frame, and find a number on the seal. You might need a magnifing glass if you don't see to well. Call mr. phil with this number, a few bucks and days later and brand new bearings show up at your house!

Guys. This isn't hard. Just do it.

n6000rs
you're gonna need a 15mm cone wrench and and a 17mm(?!) wrench to get the nuts off.

I'll take these bad boys apart this weekend and let you know what I find. I lost my cone wrenches, so I have to pick up some new ones.

I'll take these bad boys apart this weekend and let you know what I find. I lost my cone wrenches, so I have to pick up some new ones.

umm, i already did, check out the post above yours.

ahhh, oops! i though that n6000rs was some sort of crazy internet jargon i wasn't familar with.

i feel stupid.

okay. nuts are off. How exactly do you pop the bearings out? it's been ages since i've overhauled a hub like this.

nevermind. i read the IRO hub maintence thread. MAN i've been asking some stupid questions...

So.. Just to clear things up, which Phil spec'd bearing is an exact match for the bearings in the Nashbar track hubs?

I see that the Nashbar hub is a 6000 series, but Phil has several bearings that begin with 6xxx, but nothing that says '6000' specifically.

Anyone know for sure? Otherwise I'll disassemble one and measure with my .001" micrometers, but I just dialed in my chain tension, and I don't want to lose it if I don't have to. ;)

peace,
sam

Looks like Phil doesn't sell 6000s anymore. You want a straight 6000, it's gonna be 10mm ID, 26mm OD, and 8mm thick. SKF is good.

This is the standard ISO (I think it's ISO...some standards body at any rate) cartridge bearing size.

Metric, as it turns out.

What are the other good cart. bearing manufacturers? I've heard about SKF. Who makes those Enudra/Enduro ones and how do they stack up vis-a-vis Philso and SKF?

What are the other good cart. bearing manufacturers? I've heard about SKF. Who makes those Enudra/Enduro ones and how do they stack up vis-a-vis Philso and SKF?

SKF makes very high quality bearings. One of the best names in the industry. You can even order ceramic bearings from them if you want to do that. Advantages are a better roundness, longer wear, lower rolling friction in the bearing resulting in a smoother spin. Not cheap, but they last a long time.

Looks like Phil doesn't sell 6000s anymore. You want a straight 6000, it's gonna be 10mm ID, 26mm OD, and 8mm thick. SKF is good.

Damn Phil and his black metal soul! Why do you not sell 6000s anymore!?! Oh well, probably because they have no need of them. I suppose I can forgive him...

Thanks for the dimensions, that is just what the doctor ordered. I'll look into some bearing sources. I don't plan on replacing my bearings right now, since the carts in there are smoother than most, but it'll be good to have some high quality replacements in mind for when they eventually go south.

peace,
sam

Anyone have quick links to good bearing sources?

Last I heard they were just out of stock on the 6000 bearings. You could email brent at philwood and check to see if they have any in stock.

Anyone have quick links to good bearing sources?


http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPBEARINGSSC/BB5000

ABEC-5, 9 bucks apiece

Last I heard they were just out of stock on the 6000 bearings. You could email brent at philwood and check to see if they have any in stock.

An email is a good idea. On the other hand, I downloaded the PDF version of the catagol and they're not listed there either, which suggests that they're not carrying them anymore. They didn't actually fit any PW hubs, if I remember right (which I might not).

Hate to bring back an old thread, but I discovered today that Phil Wood does offer the 6000 bearing used in Nashbar hubs:
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=BB1053

On a related note, you can also get ceramic hybrid bearings for these hubs, for true greased-lightning goodness:
http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=BB3600

good to know. thanks keevohn.

Anyone have quick links to good bearing sources?

Both of these companies make bearings that are of high enough quality for Moi Seiki Machine CNC machine tools. These are machines that produce parts for such automotive comanies like Honda, Denso, and Toyota.

NTN makes quality bearings. (http://www.ntn.co.jp/english/)

NSK (http://www.us.nsk.com/public/enu/region_27.asp?rg=us&lg=enu)

Mori Seiki (http://www.moriseiki.co.jp/english/index.html)

VBX is a bearing company based in SoCal that does bulk 6000 and 6001 series cart brearings for hubs, also 6903 bearings for Phil and similar cartridge bearings. I think there is a direct site but he does a big Ebay business too.
If bought in bulk the bearings are about a buck a piece.

I prefer Enduro bearings in the BB because they ditch the retainer and toss an extra BB in there. Plus the lube they use is the tits.

where is VBX in the quality spectrum? found a bunch on ebay, looks like a great deal. too good in fact.

This thread is great. I just found out that after 7000km, my Nashbar hub's bearings are shot.
I'll be trying to find some good 6000RS bearings locally.

I don't know how one would compare the quality of each brand with out lab equipment, but heres a part # reference guide:

http://www.nationalprecision.com/bb6.htm

Note that Phil doesn't make their own bearings, they just spec them. Not sure what their spec is. But anyway, no point in paying their markup, just figure out what part you need and go buy good stuff.

Also, somewhere above in this rather old thread was a mention of a formula overhaul how-to thread, anybody know where to find that.

IRO Hub Maintenance thread:
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=91522&highlight=iro+hub+maintenance

anyone know the dif between 6000, 6000ZZ, 6000-2RS, ect. all the ones i've seen seem to have the same dimentions. maybe the matterials are different.
what would be the best quality matterial then?

great thread btw!

IIRC (from working@an auto race shop), number designations are indications of the RPMs they were designed for (i.e. witstanding 14,000 RPM compared to 30,000 rpm). They have nothing to do with the outer physical dimension, nor do they have anything to do with how the bearing holds load (cylindrical cartridge bearings are designed to take only radial loads).

Whether one is better than the other for a bike is up for debate. Ceramic bearings, which generally have humongous RPM ratings relative to their stainless counterparts, are supposedly the bees knees for racing (I've had them in a pair of ZIPPS). One might infer that this means that steel bearings with high RPM ratings may be smoother than other with lower RPM ratings, but what about durability?

Frankly, I can't tell the difference between a set of Phil spec, Formula OEM bearings, and VBX cheapies in my hubs. I have had slightly longer lifespans with Enduro bearings, but I think that has more to do with the excellent super-web grease that they put in more than the construction of the bearing itself.
I haven't tried ceramic bearings in my fixie wheels because I don't want to spend 25 bucks per bearing, and don't mind changing my cheapies out every few thousand miles (once, perhaps twice a year max).

The 6000 is the size, the letters at the end denote the types of seals, among other information -- it's an ISO naming convention.

Z = single pressed steel shield
ZZ = dual pressed steel shields
RS = single contact seal
2RS = dual contact seals
N = retaining ring groove around the edge of the bearing internally
NR = retaining ring groove around the edge of the bearing internally, with retaining ring

So, for our purposes, 60002RS bearings would be optimal, performance wise. Some bearing manufacturers don't follow the ISO naming standard (NTN and NSK among others) but you can find high-performance parts from folks like ***, SKF, Steyr, and Koyo without problem.

ooh yea, I forgot about that. NSK has the part number variations for RPM rating.

As a side note, Zipp hubs use ZZ (dual shielded) bearings to eliminate seal drag. Phils, you'll notice, are pretty stiff to turn when not installed on a wheel. That can be attributed to seal drag. In theory, you could run a 6000ZZ bearing and potentially get some energy savings over a 2RS (at the expense of most likely having to replace the bearings more frequently due to contamination) but I expect most people will prefer the sealing to the decreased friction.

i ****ing love you guys! thanks for taking the time to make such informed replies.

Ceramics....hmmmmm......this could keep me occupied.

Glad we have some ISO gurus in here. Thanks Sashae and ATN!

http://www.thebikebench.com/cat_bearing.asp?CatID=2
http://www.abiindustries.com/
http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=docs&id=7

WOOOO!
My girl picked me up some Nachi 6000-2NSE's yesterday from the local bearing supply.
<3

I can't wait to get these in.
It feels like I'm running a dragging brake on the back wheel right now.

rad, let us know how it works out.

bearing gurus... would these be a good option?

http://cgi.ebay.com/6000-2RS-STAINLESS-SINGLE-ROW-RADIAL-BALL-BEARING_W0QQitemZ250076064843QQihZ015QQcategoryZ36796QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

If you are in the UK then yea, probably sinc shipping is going to be an issue.

Really, the difference between a so-so bearing and the best of the best stainless/phil/007 bearing isn't that huge. You're going to have to try hard to find a crappy cartridge bearing with dual lip seals.

Formula and Novatec are NOT the same company.

Formula Engineering Inc.
www.formulahubs.com

Novatec - also known as JoyTech.
www.joy-tech.com.tw

Because they have different websites? This isn't a very convincing argument. Not that I'm saying they have to be the same company now, just more saying we don't know from what's been presented.