Advocacy & Safety - Was I buzzed?

I was commuting to work on my fixed gear this morning enjoying a massive tailwind (albeit contemplating the ride home after work) when I approached one of the diciest parts of my commute- a stretch of shoulderless, narrow parkway posted at 25mph with horrible pavement and a tall curb (for the locals, it is the stretch of Minnehaha Parkway between Lake Nokomis and Hiawatha). Anyway, it was about 6:20am- and I can normally make it all the way to the river with maybe a handful of cars passing me- so this is not a high traffic time of day. I wouldn't even consider using this stretch of road during rush hour, since there is no room for a bike to pass a stopped car on the right, and cars back up for blocks during the evening- but this was early morning with light traffic.

Anyway, I heard a car approaching me from behind, and notice a car driving toward me from the opposite direction. The car behind me wasn't slowing down, from the sound of his tires. I gave the glance over the shoulder to let him know I know he is there. I was soft pedalling at about 20 mph with a mighty wind at my back. The car behind me still wasn't slowing, and while I normally ride about where the right wheel of a car would be, self-preservation took over and I rode a bit closer to the curb- just as the black Ford passed me within a foot of me- probably close to 40mph (where it is posted at 25). It was clear he didn't swerve or anything, but he made no effort to slow or move left to pass. Actually, he couldn't move left at this point anyway, since there was the car coming from the opposite direction. It was a rare instant where the only traffic on the road converged at once.

As is one of my compulsive traits, I memorized his plates and vehicle description- something I often do to pass the time when I ride. I contemplated chasing him to catch him at the light, but I saw him turn right at the next intersection, which was maybe only two blocks away from where I was passed. I was annoyed, but not irate. Everything was fine- but it was a situation where there simply was no room for error. It was the principle of the matter that annoyed me.

Imagine my shock when I saw the guy getting out of his car at the bakery on the corner. I did I complete double-take at the mustashioed middle-aged red-headed guy... and I found myself yelling a profanity-free admonition suggesting that he learn how to drive and that he might want to give me a bit more room on the parkway next time. There were several people walking their dogs at the intersection, probably wondering what that was all about. I thought I handled the situation as well as could be expected- especially considering that I had enough tools in my bag to dismantle his parked car.

Anyway, after thinking more about this encounter, I was left with the uncomfortable feeling questioning how deliberate his actions were. I'd almost rather experience the an unmistakeably nasty encounter than the vague, passive-aggressive, is it/isn't it varitey. On the other hand, he didn't need to swerve toward me because the road was already so narrow- he was already about as close as possible when he passed.

Why didn't you try talking to him rather than yelling at him?

I get buzzed (1ft or less pass) like this at least once a week. Sometimes I think the driver just doesn't care, notice or know where the right side of their car (actually usually truck) is. Sometimes, like yesterday*, it is obvious they are being agressive as I get flipped off or yelled at after/during the pass.

*Yesterday I was riding in a narrow outside lane just inside the right tire track. A sliver jacked up pickup buzzed me very close, like 6" at about 45mph. The driver gave me the finger thru the rear window and then high fived their passenger.

Al

Why didn't you try talking to him rather than yelling at him?

That sounds like a good idea- like maybe too sensible- something I'd think of after the fact- I was so surprised to see him out of his car- and at that point, I was on a one-way portion of the blvd.

Hey- I thought I was doing a good job keeping my wits about me at the time (relatively speaking).

It doesn't matter if it was intentional or not. Negligence kills just as easily as intention. Certainly it's up to you and how you feel you want to handle the situation. I know I swing between the extremes of politely telling people to "Please be careful" to actively damaging thier vehicle. I'd say he got off easy.

All of that said living in New York my definition of getting buzzed is FAR different than it used to be :D

I probably come in physical contact with about 2-5 cars every day on the way to work.. usually just me tapping them to let them know I am there.

He saw you, he disregarded you. I had the same thing happen to me on a four lane arterial highway early one morning. Very low traffic, great visibililty. I hear a truck approaching from the rear. I am at the right side tire mark of the right lane. Nobody is in the left lane. I can tell by the engine sound that they guy is going fast and has not let off the gas at all. Dude almost clips me with the mirror of a 25' long delilvery van.

Why? because he could. I got the name of the company - and Italian food store - and sent them a letter. Never heard a word back from them.

That sounds like a good idea- like maybe too sensible- something I'd think of after the fact- I was so surprised to see him out of his car- and at that point, I was on a one-way portion of the blvd.

Hey- I thought I was doing a good job keeping my wits about me at the time (relatively speaking).
I can understand that. Maybe next time.

Why? because he could. I got the name of the company - and Italian food store - and sent them a letter. Never heard a word back from them.


*sigh* People!

You GO to the store at night and put roaches and mice in the mail slot ;)

I get buzzed (1ft or less pass) like this at least once a week. Sometimes I think the driver just doesn't care, notice or know where the right side of their car (actually usually truck) is. Sometimes, like yesterday*, it is obvious they are being agressive as I get flipped off or yelled at after/during the pass.

*Yesterday I was riding in a narrow outside lane just inside the right tire track. A sliver jacked up pickup buzzed me very close, like 6" at about 45mph. The driver gave me the finger thru the rear window and then high fived their passenger.

Al

The other clearly agressive indicator is the sudden rev of the engine way beyond all needs. (well there goes 3 bucks... fool!) I was well on the side of the road yesterday (actually in a BL) and just past a freeway off ramp when this truck that was exiting (and had plenty of room thankyou) blasts by me like he owns the local gas station. Happens at least once a week. The real joke is when they do this on a level road and I keep up with them at the next couple of lights. I would love to be able to reach into their cab (seems like it is pickups that do this most often) and tap them on the shoulder... just to let them know I am right there with them.

The following has nothing to do with me riding on the road, but it just happens to be a interesting picture of driving human nature. Near my office is a small sandwich place where I often take lunch. It is on a corner that has been in perpetual construction... sometimes the road floods, often there is loose gravel and many many pot holes. Watching how the drivers take this corner, while at lunch, is very enlightening. Some simply negotiate it and drive cautiously by applying the right amount of power for the wet conditions and the loose pavement... their vehicles accelerate smoothly and evenly. Others seem to feel that the only solution is gross application of power, they stomp on it and their wheels spin and gravel is thrown about as the vehicle struggles to grasp the wet roadway and often fishtails a bit. Lots of noise, lots of exhaust and little progress.

if you are going 20MPH on the road, it is reasonable to go in the center of the lane, I would go in the center of the lane on that road if I were you, fsck the idiots that need to be there "first" and are so self important, the waint might do them good, or get them off the earth as they give themselfs a heart attack, because it is going to take them 1 to 5 minutes longer to get where they are going.

The real joke is when they do this on a level road and I keep up with them at the next couple of lights.
I often hear these stories of folks catching up to drivers who did bad. I have never come close to this experience, probably because the roads I ride are 45-50mph with traffic lights every 0.5-1mi apart. Even riding 25mph+ which I always do I never/rarely have a chance to catch up. Rarely as in someone could harrass me right before a red light, but this has never happenened or when it does they are in far left lane and me in right lane with cars between us.

Al

Others seem to feel that the only solution is gross application of power, they stomp on it and their wheels spin and gravel is thrown about as the vehicle struggles to grasp the wet roadway and often fishtails a bit. Lots of noise, lots of exhaust and little progress.


MMM. Sounds like the Bush's foreign policy. :rolleyes:

Others seem to feel that the only solution is gross application of power,.
I have neighbors that owns two jacked up trucks. They live across the street and a few houses down. The son drives one, the father the other. They both squeal the tires every time they turn to leave their driveway and floor it, engine roaring to reach the stop sign 300 or 100yds (depending which way they go)down the 25mph street . I'd say they are going at least 40mph before they hard brake to a rolling stop, then rev. squeal their tires again.

I've thought about saying something, but its obviously ingrained in them and they already view me as the weird cyclist.

Al

In that situation, I would have slowed way down as soon as I saw the oncoming car if it looked like all of us were going to pass at the same time, so the car behind me had room and time to pass me safely before the oncoming car got there. With all three of you in that tight of a road, he probably didn't have anywhere to go without getting into a head on collision... True he could have slowed, but so could you. If there was no oncoming traffic and he still passed that close, then I'd say you were buzzed.

I was buzzed last night, but I wasn't riding, and it was an entirely different thing ;)

buzzed.

I was buzzed last night, but I wasn't riding, and it was an entirely different thing ;)



lol ;)

In that situation, I would have slowed way down as soon as I saw the oncoming car if it looked like all of us were going to pass at the same time, so the car behind me had room and time to pass me safely before the oncoming car got there. With all three of you in that tight of a road, he probably didn't have anywhere to go without getting into a head on collision... True he could have slowed, but so could you. If there was no oncoming traffic and he still passed that close, then I'd say you were buzzed.

I was buzzed last night, but I wasn't riding, and it was an entirely different thing ;)

I hear you, and that is along the lines of "walking away to live another day" principle... and that it does no good to engrave "I had the right of way" on my tombstone- but damn- I'm just as entitled to the road and it is his responsibility to pass me safely- and on the Parkway, it isn't like I can just ride off into the grass or step off the road- it has a nasty curb.

It is insanely poor design- considering the city owns all the property around there and it would take nothing to widen the road.

It really hasn't been the same since crosstown was cut down to one lane- people use the parkway as a residential freeway.

BTW- how about the wind today? I'll have 20 miles against it after work... :mad:

In that situation, I would have slowed way down as soon as I saw the oncoming car if it looked like all of us were going to pass at the same time, so the car behind me had room and time to pass me safely before the oncoming car got there. With all three of you in that tight of a road, he probably didn't have anywhere to go without getting into a head on collision... True he could have slowed, but so could you. If there was no oncoming traffic and he still passed that close, then I'd say you were buzzed.

I was buzzed last night, but I wasn't riding, and it was an entirely different thing ;)

I disagree.

It's to difficult to check a car approaching from the front and one from the rear and try to adjust your speed so all 3 of you don't meet at the same time plus keep your eye on the road.

I think if you were out in the lane farther, you would have been safer. You may have also motioned with your hand out that it was not safe to pass. 9999 out of 10000 nobody is going to hit you from the rear. The driver threaded the needle between you and the oncoming car because he could fit between - not by much - but he could fit. If you made the space smaller, he would have had to slow down.

Sounds like the guy was just trying to get around, and to be courteous.

I consider getting buzzed something like within 6 inches and it has to be intentional - otherwise it's just another unaware driver.

I often hear these stories of folks catching up to drivers who did bad. I have never come close to this experience, probably because the roads I ride are 45-50mph with traffic lights every 0.5-1mi apart. Even riding 25mph+ which I always do I never/rarely have a chance to catch up. Rarely as in someone could harrass me right before a red light, but this has never happenened or when it does they are in far left lane and me in right lane with cars between us.

Al

I am talking about 35MPH roads with lights perhaps .5 mi apart... with enough traffic so that the average speed is perhaps 30MPH or so.

Anything beyond that and they are long gone. It just amazes me that some motorists go through such "effort" to pass me, and in reality end up sitting and waiting at the next couple of lights right in front of me. This certainly shows that I am not holding up their progress. ;)

This is not the drag strip type of traffic I know you can experience at times... I have no suggestions for that other than what we have discussed at length on other threads.

I have neighbors that owns two jacked up trucks. They live across the street and a few houses down. The son drives one, the father the other. They both squeal the tires every time they turn to leave their driveway and floor it, engine roaring to reach the stop sign 300 or 100yds (depending which way they go)down the 25mph street . I'd say they are going at least 40mph before they hard brake to a rolling stop, then rev. squeal their tires again.

I've thought about saying something, but its obviously ingrained in them and they already view me as the weird cyclist.

Al

Now now... that is no way to be... Bet neither truck has ever seen any real dirt. :D

Of course a night commando raid to let the air out of the tires might be good karma.

Rest assured that those tires cost them a pretty penny apiece.

It just amazes me that some motorists go through such "effort" to pass me, and in reality end up sitting and waiting at the next couple of lights right in front of me.
I've nearly wiped out my legs/lungs trying to catch up to a vehicle that buzzed me, I see they get stopped at a light in the far distance and wanting to 'show them' I put everything into catching them, sometimes hitting 30mph even with a slight headwind, only to get to the light just as it turns green and missing giving them 'a look' by 10sec. 'Someday' I think.

Al

Now now... that is no way to be... Bet neither truck has ever seen any real dirt. :D

Of course a night commando raid to let the air out of the tires might be good karma.

Rest assured that those tires cost them a pretty penny apiece.
I know one of them hasn't seen dirt, its an extended cab, clean white parade queen with a shiny bed. The other is more of a beater with mud tires and 'used' looking side panels and brush guards.
But just because someone uses the capabilities of the truck, doesn't mean I respect them, many folks don't go anywhere practical with the 4WD, but just go out to public lands off of established roads and tear them up for fun. Guys who peel out and drive agressively in the city with such trucks give me the (probably right) perception they do the same in the desert to the detriment of existing legal roads and worse to places with no roads at all.

Al

BTW- how about the wind today? I'll have 20 miles against it after work...

Yeah, I think I'm going to take the light rail out way south and turn it into a tailwind after work ;)


It's to difficult to check a car approaching from the front and one from the rear and try to adjust your speed so all 3 of you don't meet at the same time plus keep your eye on the road.

You don't ride brakeless or fixed, do you? I do that like 10 times a day it seems.

I know one of them hasn't seen dirt, its an extended cab, clean white parade queen with a shiny bed. The other is more of a beater with mud tires and 'used' looking side panels and brush guards.
But just because someone uses the capabilities of the truck, doesn't mean I respect them, many folks don't go anywhere practical with the 4WD, but just go out to public lands off of established roads and tear them up for fun. Guys who peel out and drive agressively in the city with such trucks give me the (probably right) perception they do the same in the desert to the detriment of existing legal roads and worse to places with no roads at all.

Al

"All hat and no cattle" as they would say in Texas.

Just like the wide Hummers here in La Jolla... Makes me laugh when I see these things with "Jill's Nail Salon" on the side. Obviously a wise investment. :rolleyes:

Sounds like the guy was just trying to get around, and to be courteous.

I consider getting buzzed something like within 6 inches and it has to be intentional - otherwise it's just another unaware driver.


OK- riding home- and not on that road- since it is faster to take the dedicated bike path next to it during that stretch after work- I noticed how narrow the road actually is- and it probably was close to within six inches- and it would have to be intentional, otherwise he would have hit me (there is no room for error).

OK- riding home- and not on that road- since it is faster to take the dedicated bike path next to it during that stretch after work- I noticed how narrow the road actually is- and it probably was close to within six inches- and it would have to be intentional, otherwise he would have hit me (there is no room for error).


Do you mean intentional like he was trying to squeeze by without regard to your wellbeing or intentional in a "Hey Cletus, hold my beer and watch this!" kind of way?

You don't ride brakeless or fixed, do you? I do that like 10 times a day it seems.
I ride both fixed (mostly) and a many geared bike with front and rear brakes.
I can control my speed equally well on both. Just as one learns how to pedal faster/slower on a fixed, one learns how to pedal faster and feather brakes on a freewheel bike.

And on both bikes it is very, very difficult to just perfectly time ones speed so you are in the right place when being passed by a 45mph truck with a 55mph car coming the other way. The challenge is not physical (i.e. slowing/speeding) its mainly mental.

Sure its possible if you are riding in relatively manageable lower speed differential urban traffic, thats a whole different game.

Al

...self-preservation took over and I rode a bit closer to the curb...
I think you need to re-think your "self-preservation" plan. I agree with a previous post, you should move to the middle of lane to "indicate" to overtaking vehicles that you feel the lane is not safe enough to share. I think this person would have buzzed you no matter where you were on the road. If he buzzes you while you're at the curb, you have no place to go. If he buzzes you while you're in the middle of the lane, you have a little roadway left in case things get dicey.

d.tipton

I think you need to re-think your "self-preservation" plan. I agree with a previous post, you should move to the middle of lane to "indicate" to overtaking vehicles that you feel the lane is not safe enough to share. I think this person would have buzzed you no matter where you were on the road. If he buzzes you while you're at the curb, you have no place to go. If he buzzes you while you're in the middle of the lane, you have a little roadway left in case things get dicey.


I agree 100%. The curb is your enemy. Not only does it give you nowhere to go. It tends to be populated by things (peds) who make unpredictable movements and who are moving at a very great speed differential to you.

I think you need to re-think your "self-preservation" plan. I agree with a previous post, you should move to the middle of lane to "indicate" to overtaking vehicles that you feel the lane is not safe enough to share. I think this person would have buzzed you no matter where you were on the road. If he buzzes you while you're at the curb, you have no place to go. If he buzzes you while you're in the middle of the lane, you have a little roadway left in case things get dicey.

d.tipton

There is no room to pass anyway- or there shouldn't be- hence my initial reference that it is the diciest part of the commute. The road is two narrow lanes with maybe an extra foot on either side of a vehicle positioned normally in the lane. There are no peds there- since it is a parkway with an MUT that runs along the road- and it is 6-ish in the morning. It isn't like any ordinary road- there is no shoulder, no parking, it is narrow and confining with nasty pavement, and it is lined with curbs. I didn't think he'd even risk passing me without crossing the center line... you'll just have to trust me.

There would have been no way to buzz me if I were in the middle of the lane- he wouldn't be able to get by. The issue was that he couldn't slow down for a few seconds to let the other car clear the oncoming lane so he could safely pass.

if you are going 20MPH on the road, it is reasonable to go in the center of the lane, I would go in the center of the lane on that road if I were you, fsck the idiots that need to be there "first" and are so self important, the waint might do them good, or get them off the earth as they give themselfs a heart attack, because it is going to take them 1 to 5 minutes longer to get where they are going.
I absolutely agree. In fact, even if you were going slower, still take the center of the lane so impatient motorists don't get the wrong idea that it is safe to pass you within the lane without even slowing down. You are the cyclist, you are in a better position to know how much of the lane you need, you should be the one calling the shots here. In situations like this, I never get buzzed when I am in the center of the lane. Motorists can easily see that they have 2 choices--either wait until I pull over to the right for them to overtake me within the lane, or wait until there is no oncoming traffic, so they can pass me by pulling into the other lane.

As others have pointed out, your first mistake was riding in the right tire track -- thus appearing as if you were yielding the part of the lane to your left to passing traffic -- instead of using the full lane by riding closer to, or even left of, center.

Your second mistake was yielding even more of the lane to your left by moving right when you heard him behind. Of course he buzzed you... your behavior (via lateral lane selection and body language) was communicating an invitation to him to do exactly that.

First thing I do when I'm in a situation like this is move LEFT to make it crystal clear to the approaching motorist that I am not yielding the lane to him.

I, like Roody, never get buzzed when I am in the center of the lane.



Motorists can easily see that they have 2 choices--either wait until I pull over to the right for them to overtake me within the lane, or wait until there is no oncoming traffic, so they can pass me by pulling into the other lane.
Amazingly enough, it is that simple.

Serge

Is it possible he didn't even see you? He should have at least slowed down. I nearly was run down today by a lady who looked right at me, made eye-contact and everything. She was stopped while I was in the intersection I guess she felt she was more important than me because she pulled out to cream me while looking me in the eye.

I don't agree to the idea you should pull further left. It may have worked early on, but at some point it does become clear they're not going to yield to you. Once it's clear somebody is intent on running you down you don't help them along.

The issue was that he couldn't slow down for a few seconds to let the other car clear the oncoming lane so he could safely pass.
That's what he wanted you to think, and you did exactly what he was asking you to do: submit, and yield as much of the lane to him as possible.

Can you blame him for asking? I can't.
Can he blame you for yielding, if you didn't feel it was safe to do so? Your call...

Although much of it is subconscious, we are constantly communicating in traffic. Motorists with motorists, cyclists with cyclists, and cyclists with motorists. Of course we can't usually talk to each other, so we resort to other means. The main tools a cyclist has to communicate with a motorist are:

Lateral lane position selection.
Body language, including but far from limited to explicit hand signals.


Think of the incident from the driver's perspective. He's driving down the road, in a hurry to get his cup of java or whatever, and sees a cyclist up ahead in an ambiguous lane position... looks like he can squeeze by, even though there is another car coming the other way, especially if the cyclist moves over a smidge. Can you blame him for continuing until the cyclist is aware of his presence behind him? So he keeps going. Then what happens? The cyclist looks back. "Good, he knows I'm here, maybe he'll let me by now...". Then what? The cyclist moves right... "Excellent, and thank you very much..." Buzzzzzzz....

What else would you expect to happen?

Is it possible he didn't even see you? He should have at least slowed down. I nearly was run down today by a lady who looked right at me, made eye-contact and everything. She was stopped while I was in the intersection I guess she felt she was more important than me because she pulled out to cream me while looking me in the eye.

I don't agree to the idea you should pull further left. It may have worked early on, but at some point it does become clear they're not going to yield to you. Once it's clear somebody is intent on running you down you don't help them along.You are so right, even for a different reason than you think. There would have been no "buzzing" if the OP had been further left "early on," that is, right from the start. When a cyclist rides in the rightmost part of the lane, he or she is clearly offering to share that lane wit anyone else who comes along. What sense does it make for a cyclist to offer to share the lane if the lane is not wide enough to share?

If a lane is not wide enough to share, you cannot share it. You can only give it away, or keep it all. The OP chose to give it away, then got pissed when the motorist accepted his gift.

I had a frustrating discussion/arguement over lunch with a coworker. It started with me mentioning how I got the weekly 'get da fk of d'road' yelled at me yesterday. He was adamant that while I may have a legal right, I am still totally in the wrong to hold up cars by travling at 25mph, legal means nothing, its is societal norms I should follow - he actually admitted he goes out of his way to itimidate cyclists who are on the road so they don't get too comfortable with it, especially if they are no as far to the right as possible, otherwise too many people will. We went on with lots of details I am leaving out, but by the end of lunch we were not speaking any more. The strangest part is that this guy rides the bus because he thinks there are too many cars and the enviromental issues, but he also strongly feels that bikes on roads is the totally wrong approach. He also said he will have zero symathy if I'm ever hit - that in fact I'm the one with the problem putting my family at risk of the resulting possible trauma to them. Anyway its feels good to vent a bit, but also showed me how some otherwise reasonable folks are so bent out of shape about 'their' roads being used the 'wrong way'. You may think he was trying to ruffle my feathers knowing I'm a cyclist, but believe me it was a lot deeper than this in his convictions.

Al

I was commuting to work on my fixed gear this morning enjoying a massive tailwind (albeit contemplating the ride home after work) when I approached one of the diciest parts of my commute- a stretch of shoulderless, narrow parkway posted at 25mph with horrible pavement and a tall curb (for the locals, it is the stretch of Minnehaha Parkway between Lake Nokomis and Hiawatha). Anyway, it was about 6:20am- and I can normally make it all the way to the river with maybe a handful of cars passing me- so this is not a high traffic time of day. I wouldn't even consider using this stretch of road during rush hour, since there is no room for a bike to pass a stopped car on the right, and cars back up for blocks during the evening- but this was early morning with light traffic.

Anyway, I heard a car approaching me from behind, and notice a car driving toward me from the opposite direction. The car behind me wasn't slowing down, from the sound of his tires. I gave the glance over the shoulder to let him know I know he is there. I was soft pedalling at about 20 mph with a mighty wind at my back. The car behind me still wasn't slowing, and while I normally ride about where the right wheel of a car would be, self-preservation took over and I rode a bit closer to the curb- just as the black Ford passed me within a foot of me- probably close to 40mph (where it is posted at 25). It was clear he didn't swerve or anything, but he made no effort to slow or move left to pass. Actually, he couldn't move left at this point anyway, since there was the car coming from the opposite direction. It was a rare instant where the only traffic on the road converged at once.

As is one of my compulsive traits, I memorized his plates and vehicle description- something I often do to pass the time when I ride. I contemplated chasing him to catch him at the light, but I saw him turn right at the next intersection, which was maybe only two blocks away from where I was passed. I was annoyed, but not irate. Everything was fine- but it was a situation where there simply was no room for error. It was the principle of the matter that annoyed me.

Imagine my shock when I saw the guy getting out of his car at the bakery on the corner. I did I complete double-take at the mustashioed middle-aged red-headed guy... and I found myself yelling a profanity-free admonition suggesting that he learn how to drive and that he might want to give me a bit more room on the parkway next time. There were several people walking their dogs at the intersection, probably wondering what that was all about. I thought I handled the situation as well as could be expected- especially considering that I had enough tools in my bag to dismantle his parked car.

Anyway, after thinking more about this encounter, I was left with the uncomfortable feeling questioning how deliberate his actions were. I'd almost rather experience the an unmistakeably nasty encounter than the vague, passive-aggressive, is it/isn't it varitey. On the other hand, he didn't need to swerve toward me because the road was already so narrow- he was already about as close as possible when he passed.
It's the same for me on my commutes in Oz that some drivers treat it as sport to come as close as they can, even when i legally take a whole lane for my safety.I commute in city traffic it means some close riding with alot of traffic lights so the time gained by the drivers impatience is negated so when i pull alongside and ask if theres something they wanted to say to me they always sheepishly say," i did not see you", one driver went through a red light when i knocked on the window, must of been feeling guilty anyway glad you are all right and safe riding.
Prom.T.

*sigh* People!

You GO to the store at night and put roaches and mice in the mail slot ;)

... and then make a phone call to the local health department!

I don't think it was intentional. Very few people are homicidal. He just had supreme confidence in his ability to "shoot the gap". That is my term for such occurrences.

How sad though that he weighed the very real possibility of striking you and sending your body hurling through space versus delaying getting to his donut by 30 seconds and chose the latter!

The other posters are right on with the statements that there are some sections of road where, if cars can not safely pass you, you have to be proactive and move to the center to so indicate. Remember that cars and cyclists see the road very differently. Cars take no heed of high curbs, crumbling shoulders, cracked pavement, debris, etc.

...The issue was that he couldn't slow down for a few seconds to let the other car clear the oncoming lane so he could safely pass.

And why should he? You may have inadvertantly indicated to the overtaker that you were willing to share the lane (whether you meant to or not) and the overtaker could have interpreted that as "business as usual" and buzzed right by. The point of my comment was that your movement to the curb is a signal of intention (whether you intended to send that particular message or not). IE Cyclist next to curb = Cyclist is willing to share the lane (regardless of how narrow); no need to prepare to slow. IE Cyclist in the middle of the lane = can't get by in same lane; cyclist feels it is unsafe to share lane; MUST slow down or pass in other lane or (hopefully this isn't that one in a million motorist) run over cyclist.

d.tipton

There is no room to pass anyway- or there shouldn't be- hence my initial reference that it is the diciest part of the commute. The road is two narrow lanes with maybe an extra foot on either side of a vehicle positioned normally in the lane. There are no peds there- since it is a parkway with an MUT that runs along the road- and it is 6-ish in the morning. It isn't like any ordinary road- there is no shoulder, no parking, it is narrow and confining with nasty pavement, and it is lined with curbs. I didn't think he'd even risk passing me without crossing the center line... you'll just have to trust me.

There would have been no way to buzz me if I were in the middle of the lane- he wouldn't be able to get by. The issue was that he couldn't slow down for a few seconds to let the other car clear the oncoming lane so he could safely pass.
It's hard to understand why you continue riding to the right, even though you admittedly know that riding in the middle of the lane will absolutely prevent "buzzing". And you continue to ride to the right, then get angry when someone (predictably) buzzes you. It is hard to have sympathy when you fail to do what you easily can do, to prevent something unpleasant, possibly dangerous, from happening. Please explain this paradox.

By the way, I don't understand what you mean when you say this "isn't like any ordinary road." You said it is a two lane road with a narrow lane and a curb by the side, with poor pavement. There are no parked cars to contend with. It doesn't sound very different from 80% of the streets I ride on. Can you explain what makes it so different?

It's hard to understand why you continue riding to the right, even though you admittedly know that riding in the middle of the lane will absolutely prevent "buzzing".
I struggle with this. I find that for 2mi of my commute I must ride on a high speed multilane road with a narrow outside lane. I find it on average to be far more plesant an experience if I ride on the right tire track than in the center of the lane. This is because in either position I get buzzed badly, only about 1/wk when in the right tire track, about 3/wk if the in the center. And the later is far less pleasant because those buzzing me are far more agressive about it and always honk and scream at me. On top of that when in the center I get honked/yelled at an additional 3/wk on top of the close buzzes. I do not agree it is safer to ride in the center of these lanes, but instead about at the right tire track which lets cars do a partial merge right and does't mess up flow as much as in the center where cars still try a partial merge but far more agressively often resulting in multiple cars honking and squealing brakes as they jostle for position behind me. This is only the case for this type of road - on a single lane road or with less dense traffic I think center would be better and safer.

Al

I got buzzed yesterday by an older man in a beat-up Ford pickup. This was on Ashcake Rd. in Ashland, which if you know it, is a nice road well-used by cyclists (part of Virginia Bike Route 76, with the BIKE-76 signs every mile or so). The road was wide, I was about 2' out from the shoulder, it was 7 am on a holiday, there was no other traffic, and he zoomed past completely within "our" lane making zero effort to give me room. His mirror was probably within 6" of my shoulder. I yelled out HEY! as loud as I could, and I saw him look up and into his rear view, and I made an arm gesture to show him how close he had come. He did not slow down or acknowledge me in any way. I almost caught up to him at the next light but it turned green too early and he was gone. Fortunately this kind of foolishness is the exception around these parts, but it happens maybe every other time that I ride.

I struggle with this. I find that for 2mi of my commute I must ride on a high speed multilane road with a narrow outside lane. I find it on average to be far more plesant an experience if I ride on the right tire track than in the center of the lane. This is because in either position I get buzzed badly, only about 1/wk when in the right tire track, about 3/wk if the in the center. And the later is far less pleasant because those buzzing me are far more agressive about it and always honk and scream at me. On top of that when in the center I get honked/yelled at an additional 3/wk on top of the close buzzes. I do not agree it is safer to ride in the center of these lanes, but instead about at the right tire track which lets cars do a partial merge right and does't mess up flow as much as in the center where cars still try a partial merge but far more agressively often resulting in multiple cars honking and squealing brakes as they jostle for position behind me. This is only the case for this type of road - on a single lane road or with less dense traffic I think center would be better and safer.

AlUnless I am mistaken, the OP indicated a single narrow lane in each direction.

Unless I am mistaken, the OP indicated a single narrow lane in each direction.
Yeah, he was, I know, hence my comment that my situation was not like a single direction laned road.
But I mentioned it as there have been several other digressions on this thread, and I have been thinking and experimenting with the idea that riding on right tire track on lanes to narrow to share may be preferable in some situations to center of the lane.

Al

I was buzzed by a taxi about a year ago and was almost killed. I have no doubt the driver was trying to hurt me. If I had not been laid out in a ditch, I would have tried to get a license number or something. I just hope and pray that the man is stopped before he hurts or kills someone.

I was buzzed by a taxi about a year ago and was almost killed. I have no doubt the driver was trying to hurt me. If I had not been laid out in a ditch, I would have tried to get a license number or something. I just hope and pray that the man is stopped before he hurts or kills someone.


I spoke with a sheriff's deputy friend of mine who does the inspections down here in GA and she said they do things like that and run red lights because they "get big tip". I also know that there is one man who stalks cyclists at night in an attempt to get them off their bike and then...I don't know, but he's a great motivational tool on a late night training ride.

I have been buzzed more times than I can count. Typically 10 to 12 times a day. It's not a big thing to me anymore unless it's 3am on Saturday or bad weather because driver's know where their mirrors are, especially on open road with low traffic traveling at high speeds. I know it sounds stupid, but in my experience it's more dangerous to ride in bumper to bumper traffic at 5mph(that's flow of traffic) than it is on the 60mph highway I ride daily. I've been mirrored so many times I no longer feel pain in the left side of my back and a couple of my zippers are now permanantly closed on my bag.

And you can't ride in the middle of the lane here unless you are traveling with the flow of traffic, which is ridiculous when the law requires all vehicles (motor and otherwise) to move into the left hand lane if available when passing a police officer on the side of the road. I was chased down and almost mowed over by one after making sure A) I didn't hit him and B) his partner didn't door me.

When it comes to riding a bicycle, I assure you, there is no winning any arguments except for the one about who's bank account has more in it and who's going to get eaten by the hungry bear in the woods.