Road Cycling - Cannondale? Good for more than a couple years?

First, I have always been a steel rider. But for some unknown reason I have suddenly developed a keen interest in the Cannondale CAAD7 or CAAD8 bikes. I suppose that I just think there ought to be a good aluminum bike in my garage. But, while persuing the Cannondale website I ran across this owners manual supplement, http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_files/0115936.pdf. I can read very well and I take pride in good communications skills. So, what should a potential Cannondale customer think of this warning, that for a serious (competitive) cyclist the CAAD7 is what Cannondale calls a two year frame?

If you've been a long time Cannondale rider I'd really like your thoughts on this. I know they're good bikes. That's not an issue. But the warning about the frame really disturbs me.

I dont know how true that is for the CAAD7-8 frames(and I hope it isn't since I ride an Optimo), but there's a guy who rides with us on a mid 90's cannondale (even has the old logo), so I assume the frames are more durable than Cannondale says, and that they're just covering their bases for the lawyers.

Seems like each CAAD generation gets lighter and lighter w/less material, I don't doubt the old generations might last longer than the current ones. That said, if I was buying an 8 I'd be more worried about a life under 10+ years as a result of my 2 or 3 year old coming after it with a hammer vs. it wearing out.

Optimo is the CAAD7.

I did read that too in the manual. It just might be there for legal issues. I guess I'll see in a year and a half.

I also think that is worst case scenerio. Like a pro/semi-pro riding close 100miles a day and then racing it on the weekends. But at that point, you would have a training bike, a race bike, and you'd be replacing frames and parts yearly or bi-yearly anyway.

Optimo is the tubing, not the frame. My CAAD8 has Optimo tubing too.

What they are saying is "Hey, we made this bike as strong and light as possible. Don't treat it like a BMX"

They are most likely being conservative because they don't want people riding these things into the ground over several years and not inspecting them occassionally.

Tempering this.......They have done extremely well in the EFBe fatigue test.

CAAD 5 (yeah, not Optimo I know) has been around for 5 years and I haven't heard of one of those falling apart yet?

Optimo is the tubing, not the frame. My CAAD8 has Optimo tubing too.

If you look at the Cannondale ARchives, they list the bikes as "Optimo". My friend has the Team Replica and it doesn't say CAAD7 anywhere, just Optimo.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95069.html

That warning was from 1995. So hopefully they learned a few things since then.

I rode a cannondale from 1992 thru late last year. No problems however the frame felt 'noodly' near the end of its life when hammering.. Otherwise it would have made a great commuter bike or something. I gave it to a budy.

ride on

If you search the Cannondale website, there's a PDF file somewhere with warnings about the CAAD7/8 Optimo frames.

They are intended for serious racers who only plan to ride the bikes for 1-2 seasons.

The frames tubes are seriously thin and can dent very easily.

I was going to get an R700 before, but changed my mind after I read that.

It's definitely not a bike you want to lock up.

There are different sorts of riders and riding. Pro riders use two or three frames over a eight month season, and then replace them. So, although they put a lot of extreme stress on a frame, that period of stress last less than 5,000 miles or so for each frame.

Recreational riders seldom generate even half the power of a top Pro. They do not ride as fast or hard as a Pro. So, their frames are used for many years without enduring "maximum" stress for even a few minutes. The frames are stressed at low levels, compared to how Pros stress a frame.

As a result, many Klein and Cannondale frames from 1985 are still on the road today, and may still be on the road twenty years from now. Both Klein and Cannondale spend enormous amounts of money designing and testing their frames. If you are giving a Cannondale frame "typical" riding stress and typical care, it should last a long time.

In contrast, bike stores are flooded with "discount" bikes with generic aluminum frames from the same two or three factories in communist China. They are designed to LOOK like a Klein frame or a Cannondale frame, but looks can be deceiving. I would not trust those sorts of frames for a ride around the block.

When an aluminum frame like this does start to go, where does the fatigue usually start to set in? I have a Cannondale frame and am wondering what is the best area to keep an eye on?

The frames tubes are seriously thin and can dent very easily.



Dents yes, doesn't mean they are weaker though. Large diameter (thin) beats small diameter(thick) for strength.

P.S. 853 steel is thinner than SLX, but I'll still take 853.


When an aluminum frame like this does start to go, where does the fatigue usually start to set in? I have a Cannondale frame and am wondering what is the best area to keep an eye on?

See my post #8 with link.

See my post #8 with link.

Yeah, if your bike breaks there you are in a world of hurt.

Yeah, if your bike breaks there you are in a world of hurt.

I'm glad they have been paranoid about this since 1995. I actually feel safer.

Light stuff breaks sooner, but I'll take a 3 lb C-dale frame (CAAD 7 and 8 are lighter) over a 3 lb aluminum frame from ABC bicycle mart.

If you are careful handling it (don't bang it into things), and don't race, you'll be fine for years. The ride of these frames maks it worth it for me. I would imagine that they are being a little over protective with that wording, but a couple a seasons of hard racing might stress it more than someone doing recreational riding. If I was a serious racer, I'd probably be replacing my frame every couple of years anyway. These frames perform great in various independent stress tests too, if you search you'll find some links.

http://damonrinard.com/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm (old test from 1997, but compares CF and Ti at the time.) Notice the Big name company CF and Al actually beat boutique builder small diameter steel.

http://www.efbe.de/erenn.htm (up to date)

Yeah, that one, and there's a more recent one that has the 7 and 8. It was just posted this week for the 80th time I think. Now I can't find it. LOL

I'm glad they have been paranoid about this since 1995. I actually feel safer.


Yeah, if you are rough enough on anything it will eventually break. I think they are just covering themselves for liability. I was at a race last month and there was a crash and this guy had his forks break right in half on his Orbea. All this stuff will break if you try hard enough. :)

When an aluminum frame like this does start to go, where does the fatigue usually start to set in? I have a Cannondale frame and am wondering what is the best area to keep an eye on?

Around the whole bottom bracket area, especially under the BB, and under the bottm of the down tube.
Also toward the front ends on the chains stays.

After that, I would say the rear dropouts.

Thirdly, and less likely, would be toward the top of the down tube, where it meets the head tube.

the tell tail signs are usually cracked paint that often looks more like a squiggly line rather that a scratch.

It seems that the opinions so far would indicate that for competitive use by someone that most of us would consider a much stronger than average rider, the frame might begin to show signs of fatigue after a couple years or so. Fair enough? But I'd like the opinions of you experienced Cannondale riders/owners that have been kind enough to respond to my original post; I'm 55years old, 5'11" and 165lbs, typically ride 100 to 140 miles weekly during the riding season, I ride for fun and health, no competition beyond trying to stay fit and achieve small personal goals, average speeds (door to door) over mostly flat terrain with some rolling hills is 17.5 - 18.5 mph for rides of about 25 miles. Longer rides naturally end up with lower ageage speeds. I consider myself to have an exceptional appreciation for things mechanical and all my machines tend to stay in very good repair. In view of this, would the CAAD7 or CAAD8 (Optimo tubes?) be at least a 12-15 year frame?

I'm not sure anybody can really predict what will happen (that frame is new). But based on past frames Cannondale has recently made I think you are OK under those "light duty" conditions for a long time.

But why guess. Just do the periodic inspections. (which you should do for any frame BTW)


It has a lifetime warranty (so even if you happen to find a crack) you'll get a new frame out of the deal.

Listen to 53-11. CAAD 7 and 8's will last forevever, if you don't abuse them. Beer can thin tubing doesn't mix well with routine yard sale crashes where every Cat 4/5 goes down. My Merckx models came the same warning. Now, with two in their fifth year and several thousand miles on each, they are both going strong.

First, I have always been a steel rider. But for some unknown reason I have suddenly developed a keen interest in the Cannondale CAAD7 or CAAD8 bikes. I suppose that I just think there ought to be a good aluminum bike in my garage. But, while persuing the Cannondale website I ran across this owners manual supplement, http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_files/0115936.pdf. I can read very well and I take pride in good communications skills. So, what should a potential Cannondale customer think of this warning, that for a serious (competitive) cyclist the CAAD7 is what Cannondale calls a two year frame?

If you've been a long time Cannondale rider I'd really like your thoughts on this. I know they're good bikes. That's not an issue. But the warning about the frame really disturbs me.They ae just being upfront about a light frame and aluminum fatigue. I don't know of any manufacturer that warrants fatigue.

I dont know how true that is for the CAAD7-8 frames(and I hope it isn't since I ride an Optimo), but there's a guy who rides with us on a mid 90's cannondale (even has the old logo), so I assume the frames are more durable than Cannondale says, and that they're just covering their bases for the lawyers.They started the whole business with the caad 7 optimo.

Listen to 53-11. CAAD 7 and 8's will last forevever, if you don't abuse them.

Well....Nothing lasts forever, but yeah depends on the usage.

You put some 300 lb guy on there and it won't last as long. Same guy on really light ultra Foco tubeset will fatigue that frame too.

If you look at the wording carefully, there's nothing in there to imply that it won't last more than 2 years. It said it is design to give a competitive edge to racers for 2 seasons. The meaning of a competitive edge is somewhat vague. It could mean that after 2 years, the frame will no longer be the best and lightest. It could mean the frames won't be as stiff. Given the context, it's more of a precaution than anything else. Cannondale is being a good corporate citizen. Informed consent is a good corporate practice. Give me all the details in all honesty and let me decide. It's practices like this that make me trust the brand.

It has a lifetime warranty (so even if you happen to find a crack) you'll get a new frame out of the deal.
Not if they tell ya the crack is due to fatigue.

Not if they tell ya the crack is due to fatigue.

"If a consumer finds even a small crack in the frame, they should stop riding the bike and return it to their Cannondale retailer for a FREE warranty replacement frame"

How do they know crack was from fatigue or from defect. I got this quote from here---> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95069.html

Listen to 53-11. CAAD 7 and 8's will last forevever, if you don't abuse them. That may well be the barnyard waste post of the week.

"If a consumer finds even a small crack in the frame, they should stop riding the bike and return it to their Cannondale retailer for a FREE warranty replacement frame"

How do they know crack was from fatigue or from defect. I got this quote from here---> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml95/95069.htmlYou ought to be bright enough to know that is old business that predated the caad 7 optimo. Try reading the new Cdale stuff. It's an out if they want to use it. Many manufacturers are much more liberal about warranty interpetations than others.

Thanks to all of my fellow forum riders for advice and opinion. The fatigue tests that were referenced were very interesting. Last Saturday (7/2) I went to a nearby Cannondale dealer to get a close up look. I had a chance to inspect an R800 (04') and an R1000. What was interesting is the response that I got when I asked what type of warranty Cannondale provided on the frame. I guarantee that the employee told me that, "Cannondale guaratees the frame for as long as the original purchaser owns it". I plan on verifying that with Cannondale.

What was interesting is the response that I got when I asked what type of warranty Cannondale provided on the frame. I guarantee that the employee told me that, "Cannondale guaratees the frame for as long as the original purchaser owns it". I plan on verifying that with Cannondale.Cdale does indeed have a lifetime warrany to original purchaser covering defcts in materials and workmanship, but not failure due to fatigue, accident or abuse!

http://www.cannondale.com/policies/bike_warr_policy2.html

Cannondale warrants the frame for the original purchaser's lifetime, but specifically exempts itself from fatigue damage.

On the other hand, I have *never* heard of Cannondale denying a replacement frame because the cracking was due to fatigue.

http://www.cannondale.com/policies/bike_warr_policy2.html

Cannondale warrants the frame for the original purchaser's lifetime, but specifically exempts itself from fatigue damage.

On the other hand, I have *never* heard of Cannondale denying a replacement frame because the cracking was due to fatigue.And how many Cdale warranty claims have you personally handled?

None... I said heard... I imagine that if Cannondale denied claims based on fatigue, there'd be plenty of folks posting and grouching on the internet about it.

Why - have you heard of Cannondale denying a claim based on fatigue?

None... I said heard... I imagine that if Cannondale denied claims based on fatigue, there'd be plenty of folks posting and grouching on the internet about it.

Why - have you heard of Cannondale denying a claim based on fatigue?

One of us will have to call Cannondale.

Yeah, if the tube bends they ain't going to do anything. If say the frame is "soft" they ain't going to do anything either . Both of these are fatigue.

A crack might be different......Maybe it depends on where the crack is?

Yeah, if the tube bends they ain't going to do anything. If say the frame is "soft" they ain't going to do anything either . Both of these are fatigue.

I wouldn't consider either to be fatigue. Fatigue = cracks.

None... I said heard... I imagine that if Cannondale denied claims based on fatigue, there'd be plenty of folks posting and grouching on the internet about it.

Why - have you heard of Cannondale denying a claim based on fatigue?Now you are speculating and generalizing. Sydney does nor really wate time keeping a finger on what cdale does or does not do. Never bought a frame based on warranty anyway.

If say the frame is "soft" they ain't going to do anything either .
Tell us about this 'soft' nonsense.

Tell us about this 'soft' nonsense.

I guess "deadening" of aluminum over time. I'm not even sure this happens.

Even if it did I wouldn't ask Cannondale to warranty it...Haha

Now you are speculating and generalizing. Sydney does nor really wate time keeping a finger on what cdale does or does not do. Never bought a frame based on warranty anyway.

I see... add Sydney to the list of people who have not heard of Cannondale denying a frame warranty claim based on "fatigue"...

Is it speculation to expect unhappy Cannondale owners to grouse about it, if they existed?

1-800-BIKEUSA.

that's their phone number.

I just called them up. They said cracks developing in the welds would be considered a defect. I tried asking about other cracks and they said that was a dealer call.

Aluminum doesn't have an indefinite fatigue life like steel. If you look at a stress vs. time graph for a steel alloy, eventually there is a point where, at a certain level of alternating stress, the steel will last indefinitley. Aluminum falls off until it brakes; there is no "equilibrium state" where it will last virtually forever (i believe carbon is the same way, especially with the harder epoxy matrix and more brittle carbon fibers you have to use in its production). That being said, it takes millions and millions of cycles of stress for aluminum to fatigue to the point where it will break-engineers tend to overbuild everything to handle extra load. Given that cannondale probably knows the average stress the bike will be under and rate of crack propogation for the alloy and areas around the welds in a frame, they can determine a "fatigue life" or "useful life" of a bike frame. Depending on the amount of stress that can be generated (known from tests of the best riders, I would imagine) they can determine a minimum life. This is probably why the list the period that they do; this is the minimum life under the expected stress, and a "normal" (i.e. mortal) rider will probably see a life much longer than that due to the fewer stress cycles and lower lower stress amplitude the frame will experience. Anyways, sorry for the long post, finally saw an opportunity to apply school to real life :) .

Cdale does indeed have a lifetime warrany to original purchaser covering defcts in materials and workmanship, but not failure due to fatigue, accident or abuse!

I think the only way to check for fatigue failure is to cut up the frame, dye the metal and look at it under a microscope. I don't think that would be practical for every frame they receive. They will probably not accept it if it's obviously damaged from an accident...i.e., bent in half, car tire tracks visible on it, etc. I have no experience in this matter, but that seems logical to me.

moore.speed good posts.

http://strongframes.com/tech_geeks_love/index.php?nav_level=2&page_ID=12&copyID=

For anyone else who wants to read further about Al, steel, and Ti. I haven't finished it yet, but it's pretty fast reading actually.

Cannondale WILL refuse to honour their frame warranty due to 'fatigue'. I am currently battling with them over my 5-year-old Scalpel (yes, a mountain bike). It's made from the Optimo tubing and is slightly more advanced than a CADD 5 frame. It had the downtube snap at the waterbottle braze-on (a clear cose fo a defect too). So, If you buy a Cannodale, and the frame breaks after a few years from routine riding, don't expect Cannodale to help you out.

Cannondale WILL refuse to honour their frame warranty due to 'fatigue'. I am currently battling with them over my 5-year-old Scalpel (yes, a mountain bike). It's made from the Optimo tubing and is slightly more advanced than a CADD 5 frame. It had the downtube snap at the waterbottle braze-on (a clear cose fo a defect too). So, If you buy a Cannodale, and the frame breaks after a few years from routine riding, don't expect Cannodale to help you out.

If they don't warranty it, you can still trade in your broken frame and upgrade it for a fraction of what it would cost new. People crash on and jump stuff hard on mtb's not saying that you did, but those frames get stressed a bit, and depending on what riding you do, how much you weigh, and how many miles you have on the frame, it might be fatigue.

Who knows! Atleast you don't have to pay even close to retail for a new frame!

Cannondale bikes last a really long time. I've seen several people on early 90s pre-CAAD Cannondales still cranking.

Does anyone know of any mainstream manufacturer that even makes disposable bikes??

Does anyone know of any mainstream manufacturer that even makes disposable bikes??

Yes. Carbon Cervelos and Scotts.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3156/2952489792_452c7c2657.jpg