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I have had little luck finding tandems in my SIZE (small ... 29" inseam captain and 27" inseam stoker) in the Louisville metro / Southern IN area. Thus, I may decide to simply use the reviews of my fellow cyclists to choose a tandem for purchase prior to a test ride. I really do NOT like this idea as I have a number of years of experience on a single and understand the importance of testing a bike before purchase.
But, my options are somewhat limited. Thoughts?
I was considering, and still am, the budget models of KHS Milano and Raleigh (i.e. $1000 to $1250). But, now see that 3 of the Burley's can be purchased for $1600 to $2000 and the Trek T1000 and Cannondale (always my favorite) RT1000 can be purchased for around $2100 to $2200.
I feel "stuck" with this decision. I want to support my LBS ... as he has been giving me good deals for 15yrs. He can order just about anything with exception to Trek currently.
Any suggestions or opinions are appreciated.
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First, lemme say this:
None of the bikes you are considering are bad. I don't think you would be disapointed with any of them. The KHS and Raleigh are less expensive mainly because the frames are welded overseas and they use some knock-off parts here and there.
They all have similar geometry. The Aluminum framed bikes will be the stiffest.
The other thing is, because you are getting your first tandem, you are at the bottom of the learning curve and things you might notice after 6 months of riding tandems you will not notice in the first month because you are concentrating on learning to start/shiftgears/stand/stop and all the basic stuff.
I tested the Cannondale, Trek, Longbikes and Santana and the KHS back-to-back on 2 seperate days of test riding. I could not tell that much difference between them. We were tandem noobs - in fact, the test rides were our first tandem rides - and if we went back today, we might have a different opinion. We stand a lot better now - without wobbling all over the road - so that might make a difference. Attempts at standing during the test rides lead to wondering all over the road no matter which bike we were on.
Because I could not tell that much difference, I purchased the cheap bike (KHS) and saved over $1,200 between it's price and the next least expensive model that was at the shop at that time - the 2004 Cannodale.
The were all nice bikes and I liked them all.
First, lemme say this:
None of the bikes you are considering are bad. I don't think you would be disapointed with any of them. The KHS and Raleigh are less expensive mainly because the frames are welded overseas and they use some knock-off parts here and there.
They all have similar geometry. The Aluminum framed bikes will be the stiffest.
The other thing is, because you are getting your first tandem, you are at the bottom of the learning curve and things you might notice after 6 months of riding tandems you will not notice in the first month because you are concentrating on learning to start/shiftgears/stand/stop and all the basic stuff.
I tested the Cannondale, Trek, Longbikes and Santana and the KHS back-to-back on 2 seperate days of test riding. I could not tell that much difference between them. We were tandem noobs - in fact, the test rides were our first tandem rides - and if we went back today, we might have a different opinion. We stand a lot better now - without wobbling all over the road - so that might make a difference. Attempts at standing during the test rides lead to wondering all over the road no matter which bike we were on.
Because I could not tell that much difference, I purchased the cheap bike (KHS) and saved over $1,200 between it's price and the next least expensive model that was at the shop at that time - the 2004 Cannodale.
The were all nice bikes and I liked them all.
Thanks for the info -- that does make me feel a little better. I appreciate it. I'm hoping my LBS will make me a CAN'T PASS THAT kind of deal on the 2005 Cannondale. But, I'm not holding my breath. The 2005 Cannondale Road Tandem does have a nice color/paint scheme this year IMO.
We ordered our Cannondale without a test ride and it's worked out great. If the bike shop is good they will be able to order the right size and then be able to swap out stems or whatever to fine tune the fit.
A test ride wouldn't have done me any good. I wasn't used to a tandem and wouldn't have known how to evaluate one. Even now if I rode a couple of different ones I would probably think the one that felt most like the Cannondale is best just because it's what I'm used to. We ride the tandem a-lot so I don't get out on my road bike like I used to. If I go more than about a week between rides on the road bike it doesn't feel at all right for the first hour or so, too twitchy.
We ordered our Cannondale without a test ride and it's worked out great. If the bike shop is good they will be able to order the right size and then be able to swap out stems or whatever to fine tune the fit.
A test ride wouldn't have done me any good. I wasn't used to a tandem and wouldn't have known how to evaluate one. Even now if I rode a couple of different ones I would probably think the one that felt most like the Cannondale is best just because it's what I'm used to. We ride the tandem a-lot so I don't get out on my road bike like I used to. If I go more than about a week between rides on the road bike it doesn't feel at all right for the first hour or so, too twitchy.
Thanks Phinney. Looks like since I'm in the same boat ... no prior tandem experience ... I will most likely be fine with no test ride. Thanks again for the feedback.
In regard to the Cannondale ... I guess you are completely happy with it? Anything you'd change? Which model year do you have?
We ordered our Cannondale without a test ride and it's worked out great. If the bike shop is good they will be able to order the right size and then be able to swap out stems or whatever to fine tune the fit.
A test ride wouldn't have done me any good. I wasn't used to a tandem and wouldn't have known how to evaluate one. Even now if I rode a couple of different ones I would probably think the one that felt most like the Cannondale is best just because it's what I'm used to. We ride the tandem a-lot so I don't get out on my road bike like I used to. If I go more than about a week between rides on the road bike it doesn't feel at all right for the first hour or so, too twitchy.
What do you look for on a tandem on a test ride? particularly if you are new to Tandems. They will feel like nothing you have ridden before on every count. Steering, pedalling, braking, balance- you name it and it will be weird. Providing it is a tandem that has some pedigree, and not a "Wallmart" special, you will not go too far wrong providing you get the size right. Even that can be way out and this is where the experience of your LBS will help. Plus the fact that as mentioned, swap over of parts to get a better fit or comfort will be possible at the LBS
Thanks Phinney. Looks like since I'm in the same boat ... no prior tandem experience ... I will most likely be fine with no test ride. Thanks again for the feedback.
In regard to the Cannondale ... I guess you are completely happy with it? Anything you'd change? Which model year do you have?
2004. We didn't like the seats at all. My wife, who has always ridden on whatever stock seat was on her bike and never complained, almost didn't make it through her first ride on this one. It came with a SelleRoyal which is very heavily padded. She thought she was "paralyzed for life". We replaced the seats with a Brooks Champion Special (B17 on springs), and a Champion Special 'S' for her. The 'S' model is also sprung but is not a B17 top. It looks like the perfect seat shape, a bit wider in the rear, shorter, and more rounded than the B17. She loves the new seat. We got rid of the suspension seat post which has enough stiction to not do much anyway. I replaced it with an old mountain bike seat post with adjustable setback.
The brakes were scary weak at first. No amount of adjusting helped but after a couple of rides they started getting stronger. Now they are very strong. I hope they don't get weak again when the pads get changed! I've seen some recommendations to add springs to the rear caliper. I tried this but didn't like the stiffer lever pull for the one brake versus the other. It seems to work fine without the spring now that the brakes are broken in.
None of the front water bottle locations are as easy to use as on my road bike. Not a big deal but something I noticed. I do like that there are six water bottle cages.
Loosening the front eccentric to adjust the timing chain doesn't work using the instructions in the manual. I made a simple puller for this.
The Cannondale branded components all seem to be 'fat' and over sized. I stripped out one of the screws in the Cannondale part which holds the stoker stem but it was easy to helicoil. The shifting is surprisingly good - comparable to my Ultegra road bike.
The handling is on the slow side compared to a normal bike. At low speeds you really have to crank the bars to get any kind of a turning radius. Beware narrow roads.
The stability sucks on gravel roads. I don't know if it's the extra weight due to the extra rider or what but we got a 'speed' wobble going on a gravel down hill and that was as close as I've come in a long time.
The brake calipers look like they may be in the way for mounting racks and fenders. I'm sure it can be done but probably not as easily as with conventional brakes.
All that I can think of. We love the bike and are enjoying cycling and each others company more than we have in years.
We got a 2005 Cannondale this year. I agree with what Phinney said. The stock seats are terrible but a different brand this year, Fizik Poggio. Very uncomfortable.
Maybe because we have a smaller size there are only 3 waterbottle mounts. We installed a rack on the back without much problem. All of the mounts are there. We replaced the tires. The stock ones were heavy 32's and treaded, with a maximum pressure of 100. We settled for 28's but would like 25's. However, I'm not sure the rims are compatable. They are Mavic A719's. Mavic's web site on the rims only goes down to 28 and 103 pressure.
We got a 2005 Cannondale this year. I agree with what Phinney said. The stock seats are terrible but a different brand this year, Fizik Poggio. Very uncomfortable.
Maybe because we have a smaller size there are only 3 waterbottle mounts. We installed a rack on the back without much problem. All of the mounts are there. We replaced the tires. The stock ones were heavy 32's and treaded, with a maximum pressure of 100. We settled for 28's but would like 25's. However, I'm not sure the rims are compatable. They are Mavic A719's. Mavic's web site on the rims only goes down to 28 and 103 pressure.
Hey rmac! I was at my LBS yesterday after the owner & friend called me to come in. He was prep'g a new 2005 Cannondale Lg/Md. He stated the rims could fit down to a 25 with no problem and that he would swap them out for no extra $$. So, that is good news.
I agree .. the seats appear to be WAY too uncomfortable. I'm so FAR PAST being able to deal with low profile NO padding seats ... I was fine 15yrs ago and 30lbs ago on them ... but NOT anymore!! ;) I'd swap those out too.
Otherwise, I LOVE the bike! Man ... what a beautiful paint scheme in 2005!
Here's the good news ... I was told I could have it for $2,000 plus tax (6%) and with 6 mos SAC. But, he asked that I NOT repeat this to anyone. We have a local Wheelmen club that he started about 35 yrs ago and folks would get upset if they find out they were charged more, etc. He simply knows I don't have the $2120 ... I will only have about $1200 or $1300 down and be able to make payments for 6 mos.
Sound like a decent deal?? I sure hope so. Now ... if my GF decides to NOT ride or I become single ... I'll have to ride my tandem solo after spending that kind of money!! lol :p
I'll offer up our experiences this spring...
We test rode a '04 Burley (Samba?) with a softride beam - what a scary ride. Due to our weight & power, it was like riding a piece of fencing between two fence posts. Wobble city! The stoker was in constant motion, and the captain just had to adopt gentile suggestive control and realize it had a mind of it's own. Sort of fun in a wet-noodle rodeo kind of way, but not something I wanted to experience for more than 20 minutes. Think thrill ride at a carnival... (Stoker, reading over my shoulder wants to be quoted as "[the bike was] just terrifying" - her revised quote is a bit more colorful) Almost forgot - terrible brakes.
Next, we rode a Cannondale RT1000 road tandem. The captain felt very comfortable very quickly. The handling was confidence inspiring compared to the previous ride. Unfortunately, the bike was a L/S and we needed a L/M. The cockpit was too short, and that overpowered any other impressions the stoker may have formed. The other 'togetherness' issue was the bullhorn bars for the stoker. We discovered that the captain requires more clearance than 42 cm. She could not wrap her hands around the bars without touching the captain. Not good, but fixable with larger bars. Other problems - inadequate brakes, but they were not yet bedded in properly. The cables were still giving up their initial stretch.
We then had a test ride on a Santana Arriva. The captain was very impressed with the efficiency - it felt closer to a single than any of the others. Everything worked well, but the package didn't seem to be the sum of the parts. As captain, I was almost unwilling to hold the handlebars with one hand, even for a second. I just didn't feel comfortable with the dynamics. Another knock that is somewhat unfair is the movement of the stoker bars under heavy load. They just weren't tightened adequately, but my terror of having my seat moved under me really soured my opinion of the bike. Another factor was cost. It didn't seem to deliver twice the experience for twice the price. There were slightly less expensive models, but the value did not seem to work for us. The brakes were merely adequate.
Our last test ride (and our current bike) was a '04 Cannondale MT1000 mountain tandem. Since a significant portion of our riding is rails-to-trails type paths, it is a reasonable style of bike to consider. It was very stable - we were able to make corners and turns we would never have attempted on the other bikes. We could basically track stand at stop lights. Some of that stability has been exchanged for speed with the new 100psi 1.5" slick tires we've mounted, but the bike was the easiest to control. This control made the stoker feel comfortable and allowed her to relax and enjoy riding. Don't underestimate the discomfort the stoker will feel if they sense the captain is struggling for stability! (make sure the headset isn't a little tight - that messed us up for a while). Then there was the issue of the disc brakes - WOW! We like them a lot.
The other things that pushed us towards the MT1000 were frame stiffness (we feel stiff is good), price ($600 off list), aesthetics (blue with flames - too cool!), brakes (203mm discs to stop our 450lb vehicle weight), and perceived overall value.
After purchase, we ran up the tab with bar ends, new captain's saddle, two different sets of tires, bells, computer, pump, and water bottle cages (the fourth is under the down tube). A different stoker seat post is on order. The gearing seems a bit too low at times, but then we get humiliated by a big hill and those thoughts go away for a while.
Overall, we're very happy with the purchase.
Our last test ride (and our current bike) was a '04 Cannondale MT1000 mountain tandem. Since a significant portion of our riding is rails-to-trails type paths, it is a reasonable style of bike to consider. It was very stable -
Then there was the issue of the disc brakes - WOW! We like them a lot.
After purchase, we ran up the tab with bar ends, new captain's saddle, two different sets of tires, bells, computer, pump, and water bottle cages (the fourth is under the down tube). A different stoker seat post is on order. The gearing seems a bit too low at times, but then we get humiliated by a big hill and those thoughts go away for a while.
Overall, we're very happy with the purchase.
I have an MT 2000 and do ride it aggressively offroad. As to stability, that is exactly as you state. At speed, even downhill on rough terrain, this thing is so stable that the speed does get a bit scary occasionally, but then there are the very effective disc brakes that do come into their own.
On the gearing- I use 11/32 rear sprocket and although we do occasionally want a lower gear, we bend 12/34 cassettes too easily. On the front we have Sugano XD cranks that take the larger ATB sprockets. Initially it came with 48/38/26 but this was just a tad too high a gear. Luckily a change of sprockets to 48/36/24 just about gave us a low enough gear for the offroad hills, but 48/11 means that top speed is only compromised above 38/40 mph, by which time we are coasting in any case. We can stay with the Club roadies on their solos, but cadence does get a bit high at times. On the stoker seat post, for offroad at least, a suspension post is necessary, And both saddles did need changing, but that is the norm for most bikes.
I went for the Dale over other tandems, because of the ride it gave and so far I have not been proved wrong
Let me clarify the stability on our Cannondale. It is slow handling and very stable as long as the tires have traction. I was not thinking and let the speed get up too high on a very loose surfaced downhill. I fought an oscillation that had the front tire sliding each way for over 100 feet at about 25mph. Because of the stability and stiffness of the Cannondale we didn't eat gravel but if it was 5% quicker handling or 5% less stiff we'd have been down for sure.
On my single, even though the tires are narrower, it wouldn't have been a problem. I think the added stoker weight and input had a-lot to do with the oscillation happening.
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