Professional Cycling For the Fans - Stage 3: La Châtaigneraie - Tours

this is a GREAT photo!!!!:

http://www.velonews.com/images/details/8385.11696.f.jpg

related story:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/details/articles/8385.0.html

this is a GREAT photo!!!!:

http://www.velonews.com/images/details/8385.11696.f.jpg

Those silly sprinters. I think Robbie and Stuey are in love.

So, lets see, robbie embarass' petacky in italy and tommy embarass' robbie in france?

Poor old Stuey.

How many times has he come 3rd, 4th or 5th? :)

Alanbikehouston. You're being ridiculous. There are some fantastic, sound-minded American opinions on this board. But yours is a fine example of the American attitude that I (and, pretty much all of not-America) despise.

This will be hard for you to understand, but cycling isn't just about who ends up in the #1 spot. You're missing half the race, if you're only concerned with who finishes at the top. That's why the Tour recognizes the Lanterne Rouge, as well. Being in there, making the time cuts, and finishing the blasted Tour is victory in and of itself.

I can't say anything about Boonen or the jerseys, that hasn't already been said.

But for the record... you didn't just call Van Looy a clown, did you? Tell me I'm wrong about that.

All right... please... no name calling, etc.


You're an idiot.

The good news is that you'll be gone at the end of July.


Above all, it's a great race to be enjoyed, so let's sit back and savor it before OLN yanks coverage next year! ;)

Koffee

alanbikehouston, if you like the GC competition, that's fine. But many among us like the points, KoM, and young rider competitions, because:

1. There are more legitimate contenders for each competition.
2. There are intermediate lines on almost every stage for points and KoM classifications meaning more opportunities for pitched racing.
3. The young rider classification introduces us to new talent with new backstories and new futures instead of the same (coining this phrase right here) Trautwigian rah-rah.

And as others have mentioned, those who race all year are likely competitors for the green jersey. We were watching Boonen and McEwen slug it out in the Tour of Qatar in February when Lance was showing up at anonymous cyclocross races in California. When Lance hangs 'em up in three weeks, we will be watching Boonen, McEwen, Hushovd, and the gang race to the "falling leaves" in October.

alanbikehouston will disappear for good when Lance retires. That's the good news. The bad news is we have three more weeks of it.

This will be hard for you to understand, but cycling isn't just about who ends up in the #1 spot. You're missing half the race, if you're only concerned with who finishes at the top. That's why the Tour recognizes the Lanterne Rouge, as well. Being in there, making the time cuts, and finishing the blasted Tour is victory in and of itself.


But you have to admit, much of the prizes of stage races really are lesser prizes that are mostly all about sponsorship money.

Like Tricky Dick winning the KOM last year. As if he was the actual 'king of the mountains' :rolleyes:

But you have to admit, much of the prizes of stage races really are lesser prizes that are mostly all about sponsorship money.

Like Tricky Dick winning the KOM last year. As if he was the actual 'king of the mountains' :rolleyes:
Oh, I agree that the other jerseys are lesser prizes than the Golden Fleece. And everything's always about money.

But Erik Zabel doesn't feel any less pride for his six green jerseys because of it. Nor should he. The jerseys are representative of 21 days of consistant effort and finishes.

I think the Maillot Pois will go to a rider who better represents the spirit of the KOM this year, too. But you can't take the pois away from Virenque. If he's the first to the summit, is he not the King of that Mountain?

The OTHER Jerseys are all about adding excitement to the Tour for those who are not GC Contenders. They were created to add new dimensions to the Tour and in my opinion it allows for more excitement from day1.

Alanbikehouston is right (sort of) in that the real time gaps won't start to appear for the GC until the racers hit the mountains.

For many people, the GC is what it is ALL about. Those folks might as well sleep for the first 10days. Having the Green Jersey gives people excitement and some real drama from day1.

The King of Mountains Jersey I think is amazing as well. As far as Richard Virenque NOT being the ACTUAL King last year I would definitely disagree. I mean he wasn't the strongest climber on ALL of the climbs, but he was the most consistent climber by far. Sure he couldn't match Lance on the sprint climbs...but when Lance, Basso and the rest of the GC contenders were drafting off their team mates, Virenque was in break after break on solo climbs. I LOVE the Polka Dot Jersey because it really gets guys to pound hard in the mountains! I sure hope that Voekler tries for the Polka Dot this year...I wonder if he has it in him!

The other Jerseys add more dimension to the Tour. Sure Boonen will never wear the Maillot Jaune in Paris, but that doesn't take away from the excitement and risks he will take throughout the sprint finishes

And yes, having the other Jerseys allows sponsors to get exposure, even if they aren't sponsoring a GC contender. It allows more money to be spent on the tour and hopefully this means we get to continue to see the tour year after year.

This crap is hard to wade through, so hoping that this is not a duplication ...

McEwen argued that O'Grady was not bumping shoulders - he concedes that to be normal, accepted stuff - but rather had his arm/elbow locked with his own and pressing down on his. His reaction was intended to try to avoid crashing given the lack of control it caused for him. [N.B. He estimated that they were doing over 60 KPH at the time, which is normal.] Looking at about fifteen replays from several angles and several speeds (but not being a sprinter myself) I have to agree.

Even better: while he was describing this in a post stage interview, he switched from French to Australian, no doubt to prevent a misunderstanding. Then he said that the decision was made by the commisaires who, to paraphrase as best I can, "have themselves never raced", etc., etc. He kept his cool, which was a surprise given the circumstances. That comment may come back to haunt him, however.

If someone finishes behind twenty guys in the GC, and gets the "Green Jersey", he is like the lady who goes to the "Miss America" contest and wins "Miss Congeniality". He has won a prize, but it is NOT the prize that the contest was truly about. The Tour de France is about the GC. The "Green Jersey" is a side-show for the guys who don't have a chance to win the GC.
People like you need to get their head checked.
The Tour is not just about the yellow jersey, it’s about a celebration of bike racing.
Lance will never and probably could never win the green jersey; Boonen will never win the yellow jersey. The different jerseys are for completely different styles of riders. Quite often the other competitions are more exciting than the GC. Its amazing seeing these sprinters turn their selves inside out at 43mph at an intermediate sprint for 6 points. Or the hill climbers who take off 30km into a 200km long mtn stage and stay away until halfway up the last time.
These other classifications have delivered some of the greatest individual efforts and have provided some of the most memorable characters of bike racing.

As far as Richard Virenque NOT being the ACTUAL King last year I would definitely disagree. I mean he wasn't the strongest climber on ALL of the climbs, but he was the most consistent climber by far.

Why? Because he tried to finish in a high place on top of each mountain? As if that is at all relevant to the whole point of the race itself? Armstrong finished what... 2nd, 1st, 1st, and 1st on the major mountain stages.

Counting places in the middle of a stage is like saying a rider was dominant because they led the peloton with 5km to go before a bunch sprint finish.


Sure he couldn't match Lance on the sprint climbs...

What is a 'sprint climb'?


but when Lance, Basso and the rest of the GC contenders were drafting off their team mates, Virenque was in break after break on solo climbs.

And when the actual important moments of the overall competition come around, Virenque was far off the back.


People like you need to get their head checked.
The Tour is not just about the yellow jersey, it’s about a celebration of bike racing.

Well originally it was about being the fastest to complete the route. I don't know what it's about now.


Lance will never and probably could never win the green jersey;

If points were distributed equally for every stage finish - and not giving more points on flat stages, Armstrong would have won the green jersey last year.



I think the Maillot Pois will go to a rider who better represents the spirit of the KOM this year, too. But you can't take the pois away from Virenque. If he's the first to the summit, is he not the King of that Mountain?

Well yeah, I guess he is. But it's not so hard when no other riders are trying to compete for it.

Like making sprint bonuses count for as much as finishing position. I guess it's a fair competition, but it's kind of odd and it has diminished prestige when there are so many different prizes.

Well originally it was about being the fastest to complete the route. I don't know what it's about now.

Yes, I agree. The race is such a beautiful spectacle, like it or not, it is the centerpiece of bike racing known worldwide - All the attention is brings. That’s what I meant by celebration.



If points were distributed equally for every stage finish - and not giving more points on flat stages, Armstrong would have won the green jersey last year.

Yeah, but they weren’t. If cat4 mountains had the same points as HC mountains the KOM competition could have been different also.

How about this, some of us will enjoy the competition for the other jerseys, some of us will not.

Why do people always start calling people idiots on these message boards?

This thread is about a stage that saw a breakaway nearly survive and two of them were still dangling out there with a mere 5 second advantage for quite some time. They never quit, they had great heart and they gave it their all. Then we saw an amazing sprint by Tom Boonen to come out of nowhere and win by a bike length. We saw firsthand two of the great Tour sprinters with a history of hostility mix it up to the point that one of them was relegated. Can't ask for much more from such a flat stage.

Now, I'm not saying that you have to like the other jerseys, you don't. But I would argue that without them you wouldn't have seen Dekker on that break (he did fight for the Polka dot jersey) and we wouldn't have seen the Peloton driving at such incredible speeds to try to catch them (teams at the front were trying to defend the polka dot and green jerseys) and we certainly would never have seen a rider try to use his head as a weapon in the sprint (he obviously really wants that green jersey.)

this is a GREAT photo!!!!:

http://www.velonews.com/images/details/8385.11696.f.jpg

related story:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/details/articles/8385.0.html
BTW, that first photo is AWESOME.

Well....there goes green for Robbie. Uphill battle for him now.

Hey alanbikehouston, here is another perspective.

Are flatlanders like Boonen, McEwen, Dekker, OGrady et al, blokes who have a shot at stage wins probably 10-12 times during the Tour and race for the win on each of those days less worthy of accolades than some 58kg whippet who follows wheels for 21 days and finishes 9th on GC?

Just a thought.

Hey alanbikehouston, here is another perspective.

Are flatlanders like Boonen, McEwen, Dekker, OGrady et al, blokes who have a shot at stage wins probably 10-12 times during the Tour and race for the win on each of those days less worthy of accolades than some 58kg whippet who follows wheels for 21 days and finishes 9th on GC?

Just a thought.



Some people just don't get our sport.

This crap is hard to wade through, so hoping that this is not a duplication ...

McEwen argued that O'Grady was not bumping shoulders - he concedes that to be normal, accepted stuff - but rather had his arm/elbow locked with his own and pressing down on his. His reaction was intended to try to avoid crashing given the lack of control it caused for him. [N.B. He estimated that they were doing over 60 KPH at the time, which is normal.] Looking at about fifteen replays from several angles and several speeds (but not being a sprinter myself) I have to agree.

Even better: while he was describing this in a post stage interview, he switched from French to Australian, no doubt to prevent a misunderstanding. Then he said that the decision was made by the commisaires who, to paraphrase as best I can, "have themselves never raced", etc., etc. He kept his cool, which was a surprise given the circumstances. That comment may come back to haunt him, however.

O'Grady held a straight line, McEwen didn't, plus he used his head to try and 'unbox' himself. I think he deserved the DQ. Watching McEwen is never dull! McEwen seems to be short of a lengh at the moment. That can change in a day though.

O'Grady held a straight line, McEwen didn't, plus he used his head to try and 'unbox' himself. I think he deserved the DQ. Watching McEwen is never dull! McEwen seems to be short of a lengh at the moment. That can change in a day though.



Stu's elbow was certainly overlapping Robbie, but Robbie wasn't coming past, so the head butt was unnecessary.

Good to watch, though.

Why? Because he tried to finish in a high place on top of each mountain? As if that is at all relevant to the whole point of the race itself? Armstrong finished what... 2nd, 1st, 1st, and 1st on the major mountain stages.

Counting places in the middle of a stage is like saying a rider was dominant because they led the peloton with 5km to go before a bunch sprint finish.


Ok so you don't agree with the Green Jersey and the Polka Dot Jerseys competitions. But they are a part of the race now, and people will "play the game" to win. The Polka Dot Jersey isn't about who can win the entire stage, its about who can get to certain peaks first. If the rules were different, perhaps there would be different Kings of the Mountain. Based on the rules of the Race, Virenque was the best in that competition.



What is a 'sprint climb'?


I am simply referring to the sprints that the climbers make to get to the line and collect the points for the Polka Dot, similar to how the Sprinters Sprint for the line to collect their points.



And when the actual important moments of the overall competition come around, Virenque was far off the back.


Agreed. He was never a GC contender.




If points were distributed equally for every stage finish - and not giving more points on flat stages, Armstrong would have won the green jersey last year.


Yep, and I believe he finished 2nd in the Polka Jersey Competition last year as well. He usually finishes high in that because of his big mountain finishes.



Well yeah, I guess he is. But it's not so hard when no other riders are trying to compete for it.


True. Virenque usually beat everyone by a large margin (except for Lance)



Like making sprint bonuses count for as
much as finishing position. I guess it's a fair competition, but it's kind of odd and it has diminished prestige when there are so many different prizes.

I don't like it downplays the GC that much. It does give the sponsors more exposure, which keeps it on TV though. Personally I don't give much thought to the other Jerseys once the flat stages are over, but it is cool that one race can be so multi dimensional. Everyone knows that in Paris there is only one TRUE winner, the other Jersey's are Minor Victories (like a stage win), still prestigious, but definitely taking a backseat to the GC winner.

Thank your stars for the green jersey competition. It's been the only interesting competition in the last few Tours.

McEwen had this to say about the green jersey:

Once he starts talking about the stress and struggles he's had to just get those one or two "bastard intermediate sprints", and how old rival Erik Zabel and new rivals like Thor Hushovd and Tom Boonen just never give up, ever, it becomes apparent the battle for green is a labour of love. Or maybe just laborious.

"Every stinking day, they put those intermediate sprints in those mountain stages... like, we're going for a sprint at the bottom of a 20k climb - they don't understand you're doing an absolute full effort, nearly popping you're eyeballs out of your head going for these sprints just to get another two point lead on your closest rival - then you've got to go uphill...

"It's things that, the things that people don't see about that competition are the worst things. Just constant stress - you know there's only one winner of the green jersey - and you could come into Paris being two or four points behind... one guy's standing on the podium with the green shirt on, and the other guy's got nothin'.

If O'Grady's elbow was overlapping, it was because Robbie put his elbow under Stu's. Robbie getting a whiff of Stu's armpit was uncalled for.

That said, I like Robbie's mojo. That's why we get pumped for the points competition.

Question:

Have Saunier Duval changed their jersey for the Tour? I'm thinking that most of the back is now white (previously yellow??) to distinguish them from the maillot jaune from the helicopter shots?

Obviously they've done enough to keep the SDTDF happy...

Someone fill me in....

Seems like prodir.com is more prominent on their jersey.

Bring back ONCE/Mercatone pink, I say.

damn, Dekker is an impressive rider.

That's all I have to say... daYMn he's a warrior...!
I love escapees... so much fight in them... right til the bitter end...
And hopefully there will be some daring ones in the next couple of weeks for me to enjoy!

His Paris Tours win was absolutely incredible.

this is a GREAT photo!!!!:

http://www.velonews.com/images/details/8385.11696.f.jpg

related story:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/details/articles/8385.0.html


DAMN straight...!!!!
it is an awesome wallpaper (it went straight o my wallpaper)
Boonen right in your face, with robbie and stu goin at it.
(note robbies finger ready for the brakes..)

His Paris Tours win was absolutely incredible.

Yeah, that was THE ride of 2004.

From cyclingnews.com:


Nuyens thought that the judges made the right call in disqualifying Robbie McEwen for bouncing off Stuart O'Grady in the finale. "O'Grady and McEwen must like each other a lot," he said. "I think it's completely justified for McEwen to be DQ'd, if you see the dangerous stunts he pulls!"

Robbie McEwen (Davitamon-Lotto), on the other hand, has been protesting his innocence. "I feel ****ty; and justified," he told VRT in response to Nuyens comments. "I looked at the images again. You have to look at the images taken from the front, then you can see that I didn't do anything wrong. I only reacted to what O'Grady did; I've really been flicked big time. I didn't bump him that hard; I only tried to get my arm from underneath his. I've fallen far behind now for the Green; I don't even think about winning it anymore. My advice to Nick: you should have a good look at the images!"

Previously, McEwen had criticized the race judges for disqualifying him. "The race judges have made a mistake," said McEwen after watching footage of the altercation with O'Grady. "If you look at the video replay you can see that it was O'Grady who started things by leaning on me. He put his elbow out and I had to lean on him to stop myself from falling."

McEwen has been accused of head-butting O'Grady, but denies the charge. "I didn't butt him. If you look at the video very closely you can see that my arm was trapped under O'Grady's elbow. That twisted my body and pulled my head towards him."

It's not the first time McEwen and O'Grady have crossed swords. "It was a bit too much really, too aggressive," said Stuart O'Grady (Cofidis). "I was heading towards the line and then I suddenly saw Robbie McEwen's head on my shoulder."

"All I could concentrate on was making sure I stayed on my bike," O'Grady said. "I need a beer to calm my nerves. That's not how I saw today concluding… although I must admit that I'm not surprised by Boonen. He's pure class. As for Robbie, I can understand that he was desperate but he shouldn't make it dangerous."

So the judges put him back to 186th Place for today's stage. What is it with this guy? He's always got an attitude, same as last year. :fight:

Yeah, that was THE ride of 2004.



I concur.

He's a sprinter with a massive ego.....has been this way his whole amateur/pro career.

But he's got the results to back it up.

He's a sprinter with a massive ego.....has been this way his whole amateur/pro career.

But he's got the results to back it up.

Uhh, nope. The rest of them don't act like a punk as does McEwen.

Uhh, nope. The rest of them don't act like a punk as does McEwen.


Who's "the rest of them"??

I didn't mention anyone else.

Who's "the rest of them"??

I didn't mention anyone else.
I agree. What the hell? Hahaha.

Regardless, I like Robbie. He's a very, very good sprinter. But this is Boonen's year.

Obviously they've done enough to keep the SDTDF happy...
It was probably a smart move, OKed in advance by the ASO I should think, to allow them to wear at least enough yellow to keep their "brand" identity during the race. Unlike ONCE, who had to go to a completely new jersey to avoid confusion with the maillot jaune.

this is a GREAT photo!!!!:

http://www.velonews.com/images/details/8385.11696.f.jpg

related story:
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/details/articles/8385.0.html

That's the coolest photo I've seen in a while -- I predict that at the end of this tour, that photo will become one of a few that the press will bring out to tell the story in pictures.

Doesn’t O’Grady’s left elbow seem pretty far out – like he’s trying to block McEwen? That would be a violation – right?

On the other hand, I can’t buy McEwen’s explanation that his head butting was actually an effort to avoid a crash. Take a good look at his head… I don’t see how any reasonable person could say that a move like that would make a crash less likely.

Nabbed from an Aussie news website....

Jean-Michel Voets, who has been a race official for 20 years and is presiding over the jury on the Tour for the second year running, said his three other jury members were unanimous in excluding the former Brisbane racer from the third stage, which was won in style by Boonen.

"We relegated Robbie McEwen to the back of the peloton for what we call an irregular sprint," he said after the race.

"The whole world saw what happened and we believe we made the right decision. We have to make these kind of decisions to protect the image of cycling, especially on the Tour de France."


Message seems pretty clear to the bunch....."Be on your best behaviour boys....we're coming down on any funny business hard."

3 in a row for Boonen.

OK, boys, play nice. Try to keep the personal slogging out of threads.
Thanks, Lala.

That stage was an exciting one. The trio deserved a win, especially Decker. But was a sprint. Boonen coming out of nowhere and finding a whole was fantastic TV. I would encourage doubters of carbon fiber frames to watch this sprint. The power and pressure these guys are putting on the bike was just incredible to watch. If the frames don't break under such load I don't think the rest of us risk anything.

Doesn’t O’Grady’s left elbow seem pretty far out – like he’s trying to block McEwen? That would be a violation – right?
yeah, but at what point was this headbutt, McE butted him a couple of times, so maybe O'G was just trying to get him off of him. On the other hand, if O'G made a move off Boonen's wheel and went too hard into McE and sandwiched him, then I can see the both of 'em just trying to keep the other from the stage win, even if it ruined their own chances, just out of spite.

McEwen has been known to do this kind of sophomoric stunt before, so no excuses.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chris Horner try and 'have a go' as it's the 4th of July.

Once in a while, Chris comes here in Sacramento to train on the saturday morning River Ride. He blows the rest of us away (and everyone else seems to want to prove themselves), but I can say that i've ridden along side of him (at least in the warm ups and cool downs).

Good luck Chris H.