Professional Cycling For the Fans - Stage 10: Grenoble - Courchevel

Al Trautwig is an idiot. Bring back John Tesh.

Lance left it all behind in an effor to break Valverde. When he wasn't able to, Lance had no chance of winning again a guy with a better finish. Plus, Lance did the majority of work on the climb and doesn't have a win yet. He didn't give anything to Valverde.

Al Trautwig is an idiot. Bring back John Tesh.

Lance left it all behind in an effor to break Valverde. When he wasn't able to, Lance had no chance of winning again a guy with a better finish. Plus, Lance did the majority of work on the climb and doesn't have a win yet. He didn't give anything to Valverde.

No he didn't.

I don't know how you guys post on these boards all the time. 1 week and I want to slit my wrists (in a good way, I'm still posting aren't I :P). Plus the OLN board is even worse. Holy hat

Laggard, I thought there were no team hand ups in the last 20K, but Armstrong took a bottle from a guy in a discovery shirt on the last climb.


My understanding is that they can't accept any water from anyone in the team car. It gives the rider the opportunity to hold on to get a rest, even if only for a few seconds.

I think taking water from someone standing on the roadside is fair game.
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Has anyone ever put 31 minutes on the MJ in a single stage before?

This happens sometimes. It's no special thing. Dozens of riders always finish +30 minutes behind on mountain stages.

I shook Jan Urlich's hand at the start or the race. Should I not wash it as long as I can?

Should I not wash it as long as I can?

You're in France. People there don't wash anyway, do they? ;)

Bring back John Tesh.






:D That's funny.

This happens sometimes. It's no special thing. Dozens of riders always finish +30 minutes behind on mountain stages.

I know dozens of riders lose 30+ minutes in the mountains.

But 30+ minutes on the MJ? That's nothing special?? I have to believe that's rare - teams MUST defend the MJ better than that, normally, even in the mountains. Even a non-GC contender in yellow like Voekler last year didn't give up anything like 30 minutes in the mountains when he gave up the MJ.

But 30+ minutes on the MJ? That's nothing special?? I have to believe that's rare - teams MUST defend the MJ better than that, normally, even in the mountains.

How would it matter if the team helps? What is the difference between say... 35 minutes and 25 minutes behind?

Sprinters often take the MJ, and lose it big time on the first major TT or mountain stage. Just doing a quick look back I found that Elli in the 2000 Tour lost over 25 minutes while having the jersey on Hautacam. It's normal. I'm sure if I spent the time to look through every grand tour of the last decade I'd find many more...

I don't know how you guys post on these boards all the time. 1 week and I want to slit my wrists (in a good way, I'm still posting aren't I :P). Plus the OLN board is even worse. Holy hat

It doesn't get better; it only get's worse. ;)

How would it matter if the team helps? What is the difference between say... 35 minutes and 25 minutes behind?

Sprinters often take the MJ, and lose it big time on the first major TT or mountain stage. Just doing a quick look back I found that Elli in the 2000 Tour lost over 25 minutes while having the jersey on Hautacam. It's normal. I'm sure if I spent the time to look through every grand tour of the last decade I'd find many more...

The same way Lance's team helps him keep a pace by pulling for as long as possible. Just because the MJ is lost, does a team then quit and say "it doesn't matter if it's 25 or 35 minutes down - we've lost the MJ"?
I wouldn't think so...

So you found one such TdF stage with a 25 minute gap within the last 6 years - that would say it's not "normal", wouldn't it?

... i don't mean to be insulting but the "bluff" theory is just Dumb, Stupid, Nonsensical.. etc. and would have served no purpose... give it a rest already!

I'll not argue with you, becasue most of me agrees w/ you. However, it doesn't mean that that wasn't what happened.

(However, you can bet I'lll repost your reply if anyone on Disco hints that Stage 8 was a ruse ;) )

So you found one such TdF stage with a 25 minute gap within the last 6 years - that would say it's not "normal", wouldn't it?

I imagine it would take a lot of work to look up the info, but it seems that it's common for a sprinter to hold the yellow jersey until the first mountain stage and then have to ride in the grupetto in an effort to not be eliminated. So, I imagine it has to have happened more frequently than you would think.

That's a much different circumstance than Voigt's dropping 30+ minutes, though. First of all, he's not a sprinter; 2nd, it wasn't a flat stage that put Voigt into the MJ, in the first place (with multiple category climbs).

So if we redefined it to MJ-holders AFTER the first mountain stages (which cuts out the circumstance you originally cited, but applies to Voigt's situation, which is what I was referring to), I think it has to have been rare, unless there were crashes, or injury/illness.

Apparently Voigt has been ill the last few days. In fact he was eliminated today for finishing outside the time limit. This is highly unusual for Voigt, arguably one of the strongest riders in the peleton.

So if we redefined it to MJ-holders AFTER the first mountain stages (which cuts out the circumstance you originally cited, but applies to Voigt's situation, which is what I was referring to), I think it has to have been rare, unless there were crashes, or injury/illness.

Well, if you redefine it to German cyclists who ride for Danish teams then it gets really rare! ;)

The same way Lance's team helps him keep a pace by pulling for as long as possible. Just because the MJ is lost, does a team then quit and say "it doesn't matter if it's 25 or 35 minutes down - we've lost the MJ"?
I wouldn't think so...

That is exactly what they think. Why wouldn't they? If they're totally out of contention for a high GC finish, it doesn't matter if they're 25 or 35 minutes back. All riders and teams know this. You do know that if a rider obviously has no chance at the overall, they aren't going to help him get better overall time, right? It's a lot different from helping Armstrong hold a podium finish.


So you found one such TdF stage with a 25 minute gap within the last 6 years - that would say it's not "normal", wouldn't it?

Huh? I recalled it being one where a non GC rider held the jersey until the mountains and checked that year. Like I said, sprinters get the overall lead early in grand tours all the time. And if they hold it until a mountain stage, obviously they lose a huge amount of time on said stage.