View Full Version : No brakes illegal?
FireTeamCharlie
07-02-05, 03:04 PM
I and a few friends of mine were zooming down a hille going around 40 MPH, on out BMX bikes racing, at the bottem of the hill a cop stops us because he saw my friend stick his shoe in his tire. He yelled at us about how no brakes is illegal and then ranted about us not wearing helmets (Helmet law in mass is 18 and under must wear a helemt or be fined).
I and a few friends of mine were zooming down a hille going around 40 MPH, on out BMX bikes racing, at the bottem of the hill a cop stops us because he saw my friend stick his shoe in his tire. He yelled at us about how no brakes is illegal and then ranted about us not wearing helmets (Helmet law in mass is 18 and under must wear a helemt or be fined).
You state's traffic laws should be available on-line; if not at your local library. This is entirely possible, I live in Ontario and a bike - defines as a vehicle on the HIghway Traffic Act -bikes must have (at least) a rear brake.
California law stipulates that a bicycle must have a brake system capable of causing at least one tyre to skid. The precise wording and specific requirement are a bit nonsensical, particularly for those of us who realize that the FRONT brake is by far the most important one, and that skidding the front tyre is a recipe for disaster, but the intent, that bicycles have effective stopping capability, is sound.
Pick your political fights intelligently. Yes, from a purely libertarian position, neither brakes nor helmets should be mandatory, but your personal and economic cost of meeting both requirements is so trivial that you should just go along. Besides, the upside is that good brakes or a helmet just might save your life sometime.
Yes, from a purely libertarian position, neither brakes nor helmets should be mandatory, but your personal and economic cost of meeting both requirements is so trivial that you should just go along.
As an essentially libertarian person, I'm not sure I agree with that. Lack of a helmet may result in injury only to the cyclist, and therefore I am against mandatory helmet laws as an unreasonable limitation of my freedom. Lack of brakes could result in injury to another person, however, and I don't feel my freedom trump another person's safety.
operator
07-02-05, 05:07 PM
I and a few friends of mine were zooming down a hille going around 40 MPH, on out BMX bikes racing, at the bottem of the hill a cop stops us because he saw my friend stick his shoe in his tire. He yelled at us about how no brakes is illegal and then ranted about us not wearing helmets (Helmet law in mass is 18 and under must wear a helemt or be fined).
He coudl've smacked you with about a hundred bucks worth of tickets. What's your point?
-=Łem in Pa=-
07-02-05, 05:26 PM
I and a few friends of mine were zooming down a hille going around 40 MPH, on out BMX bikes
I was on my Townie doing some hill training and I come up on Lance Armstrong,
so I yell "on yer left" .............
... he saw my friend stick his shoe in his tire...Florida Traffic Law 316.2065(14) States "Every bicycle must be equipped with a brake or brakes that allow the rider to stop within 25 feet from a speed of 10 mph on dry, level, clean pavement"
The law says you have to have them but the law doesn't say you have to use them.
So does your "friend's" bike actually have brakes? If not and your "friend" was riding it in Florida then yes that would be illegal. If your "friend's" bike DID have brakes that could meet those standards but your "friend" decided to be stupid and not use them, then no, being stupid is not illegal.
d.tipton
40 MPH with no brakes? Training for a Darwin award?
marcelinyc
07-02-05, 06:18 PM
I and a few friends of mine were zooming down a hille going around 40 MPH, on out BMX bikes racing, at the bottem of the hill a cop stops us because he saw my friend stick his shoe in his tire. He yelled at us about how no brakes is illegal and then ranted about us not wearing helmets (Helmet law in mass is 18 and under must wear a helemt or be fined).
didnt know bmxers use cycling computers...[/
spinbackle
07-02-05, 07:26 PM
didnt know bmxers use cycling computers...[/
Didn't know 40 mph was attainable on a BMX even on a good downhill.
catatonic
07-02-05, 10:57 PM
Just put the brakes on....all BMXs should have a mount around the chainstays for a caliper or similar style of brake.
Plus all you need is a tektro or whatever you can get for $10 + cable + brake lever. If you are worried about cable tangling, get one of those Oryg cable detanglers.
sestivers
07-03-05, 12:02 AM
Didn't know 40 mph was attainable on a BMX even on a good downhill.
It's not.
Didn't know 40 mph was attainable on a BMX even on a good downhill.
Having raced BMX, I seriously doubt that anyone was doing 40 on a BMX bike. In Virginia I think you have to be able to stop in a certain distance and may include a skid requirement, but doesn't specify brakes. I'm not going to bother looking it up, because it's state law and doesn't apply to you, although common sense should.
Cyclaholic
07-03-05, 02:41 AM
As an essentially libertarian person, I'm not sure I agree with that. Lack of a helmet may result in injury only to the cyclist, and therefore I am against mandatory helmet laws as an unreasonable limitation of my freedom.
I'm not sure what the law is in your country/state but if you were to suffer a head injury that leaves you physically incapable of looking after yourself and you had no family to look after you does the state assume responsibility for your care at the state's expense? If so then it could be argued that the state has some right to legislate such that it reasonably minimises the chances of you suffering that injury. Ofcourse if there is no such facility run by the state then my argument is moot.
cruentus
07-03-05, 10:59 AM
In New Jersey a bike must have brakes.
Jersey bike laws can be found here:
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/bike/regulations.shtm
40 mph on a BMX bike is entirely possible.
ghettocruiser
07-03-05, 09:02 PM
There is absolutely NO reason that a BMX (or a cruiser, a lowrider, or pretty much anything else) couldn't roll down a hill at 40mph. With a tailwind, you don't even need all that big a hill. BMXs steer pretty twitchy at speed, but a lot of streetriders use slick tires at pretty high pressure. They roll faster than a mountain bike with knobbies.
You just need to let go of the brakes.
Which apparently wasn't an issue here...
Eatadonut
07-03-05, 10:32 PM
what's the point of a BMX with no front brake? aren't there like...50 tricks any good BMXer could think of that need a brake? the only valid reason for you to not have a front brake on your bike is that the cable broke, and you haven't had the opportunity to replace it.
sestivers
07-04-05, 01:53 AM
There is absolutely NO reason that a BMX (or a cruiser, a lowrider, or pretty much anything else) couldn't roll down a hill at 40mph. With a tailwind, you don't even need all that big a hill. BMXs steer pretty twitchy at speed, but a lot of streetriders use slick tires at pretty high pressure. They roll faster than a mountain bike with knobbies.
No, you really can't. I won't say it's not possible. But having a good deal of experience on a road bike with better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, and a top gear 3X that of a BMX, there is no way he's reaching 40 mph on anything short of a half-pipe the size of a pro football stadium.
You have to pedal HARD in the top gear of a road bike to reach 40 mph, even down a good hill.
They're just trying to brag, or else meant 40 kph.
Da Tinker
07-04-05, 10:44 AM
Look here:
http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/
And to quote the law on brakes:
"(7) Every bicycle operated upon a way shall be equipped with a braking system to enable the operator to bring the bicycle traveling at a speed of fifteen miles per hour to a smooth, safe stop within thirty feet on a dry, clean, hard, level surface."
Better law than many states which state that the bike must be equiped with a brake capable of making the braked wheel skid on clean, dry pavement. Which is silly, since if you skid the front wheel, make ready to eat pavement.
As far as the speed, if he's lacking brakes, he likely lacking any instrumentation as well. Subjective speed versus real speed is often skewed.
I'm not sure what the law is in your country/state but if you were to suffer a head injury that leaves you physically incapable of looking after yourself and you had no family to look after you does the state assume responsibility for your care at the state's expense? If so then it could be argued that the state has some right to legislate such that it reasonably minimises the chances of you suffering that injury. Ofcourse if there is no such facility run by the state then my argument is moot.
Canada has universal health care. While I do pay through my taxes for the preventable medical conditions of others (the obese and smokers are more of a problem than cyclist without helmets, I think) this is not a DIRECT effect on me. I only approve of limiting the freedoms of one person when that freedom has a DIRECT effect on another.
Yes, indirect effects can be very significant, and should not be ignores. That is why governments have policies to promote healthy living, exercise, etc. There are a lot of ways to encourage behaviours that put less burden on "society" without unreasonable limitations of individual freedoms.
ghettocruiser
07-04-05, 05:31 PM
You have to pedal HARD in the top gear of a road bike to reach 40 mph, even down a good hill.
Alright. There's no way I can argue this over the internet. But I think you really need to find some steeper hills.
recursive
07-05-05, 09:57 AM
40 mph on a BMX bike is entirely possible.
Out of a cannon. ;)
Or theoretically, a steep enough hill. I'm sure they do exist, but they're pretty rare.
thechrisproject
07-05-05, 10:13 AM
He coudl've smacked you with about a hundred bucks worth of tickets. What's your point?
Wasn't the point the question stated in the thread title?
...a steep enough hill. I'm sure they do exist, but they're pretty rare.
Not that rare at all, well maybe in Wisconsin... Every Sunday night in Portland, ZooBombers go 40 MPH on 16" kids bikes, the people with real BMX bikes go faster...
FireTeamCharlie
07-05-05, 01:07 PM
I live in New England of course there is hills big enough. Also I have brakes.Some People that I ride with don't. Also we got this figure from a car that was behind us, she was going 35Mph and we passed her, so it is possible to go 40, when I get my speedometer I'll really get to see if we're going 40 but I know its possible.
ObscureRefMan
07-05-05, 01:15 PM
In New York, a brake is required. To quote:
§ 1236. Lamps and other equipment on bicycles.
(c) Every bicycle shall be equipped with a brake which will enable the operator to make the braked wheels skid on dry, level, clean pavement.
All NY state bicycle-related laws can be found here:
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=128&a=58
thechrisproject
07-05-05, 05:47 PM
That skid rule is stupid. It's easy enough to make a back brake skid, but you can get way more stopping power with a front brake.
Bob Gabele
07-05-05, 06:27 PM
No Brakes? Hell, why don't you just go out any play some serious football without a helmet? That's, at least, probably legal and the only person you put in jeopardy is yourself!!
recursive
07-05-05, 09:22 PM
I live in New England of course there is hills big enough. Also I have brakes.Some People that I ride with don't. Also we got this figure from a car that was behind us, she was going 35Mph and we passed her, so it is possible to go 40, when I get my speedometer I'll really get to see if we're going 40 but I know its possible.
Sounds like method 53x11 used to use in the good old days.
No, you really can't. I won't say it's not possible. But having a good deal of experience on a road bike with better aerodynamics, lower rolling resistance, and a top gear 3X that of a BMX, there is no way he's reaching 40 mph on anything short of a half-pipe the size of a pro football stadium.
You have to pedal HARD in the top gear of a road bike to reach 40 mph, even down a good hill.
They're just trying to brag, or else meant 40 kph.
Chuck is 14, and prone to exaggeration. I doubt any of the kids in question were anywhere near 40MPH. At my local BMX track, the speeds going into turn two can reach 50km/h. That's 33MPH. It's not a stretch that you could hit 40 on a fairly steep hill. You must have a slow road bike too. My wife and I can hit 60km/h going downhill without pedalling. My mates on their single MTB's go even faster down some of the steeper hills in town.
thechrisproject
07-06-05, 06:45 AM
there is no way he's reaching 40 mph on anything short of a half-pipe the size of a pro football stadium.
Just for the sake of argument: it's really not that hard, in some places, to find a road that is larger and as steep (or near) as a pro football stadium.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=77134&page=1&pp=25&highlight=judge
See post #9 in the thread above.
dwightonabike
07-06-05, 08:16 AM
No Brakes? Hell, why don't you just go out any play some serious football without a helmet? That's, at least, probably legal and the only person you put in jeopardy is yourself!!
I play rugby, which many uninformed people consider to be football without any pads at all. And judging by the results over the last eight years, I'm a much bigger danger to others than myself!
Bob Gabele
07-06-05, 01:32 PM
Yeah, Rugby's a great sport no doubt. My intent was not to impugne the motives of guys who play the sport.
My comment on the football without a helmet was made more as a comment akin to what an old opponent of former president Gerald Ford, who played football at Michigan during the 1932 to 34 seasons. He played without a helmet in those days...it was his choice. After one too many of Ford's embarassing moments, political opponent of his was noted for claiming that he must have "played too long without a helmet".
Hell, maybe that kid that rides without brakes may become President some day, right? But then again, he'll only do so if he never tells people about things like 40 mph and no brakes.
dwightonabike
07-06-05, 01:37 PM
Sorry Bob, I didn't have the historical knowledge to put your comment into context. I took no offense from it, I was just trying to be funny. You know that G.W. played rugby in college? Ruggers don't claim his as one of their own though, since he abandoned the best sport in the world to be a male cheerleader!
I live on a hill that when I drive down in my car, I usually do 35 or so. when on my bmx bike, I easily keep up with cars. I assume I'm going 35 or so when coasting down that hill....
as for no brakes on a bmx bike, there are a few reasons but I'll list the currently most common one.
in the progressing sport of bmx stunt riding there is a newwer breed of riders that don't run brakes. tricks that were once thought of as impossible without brakes are becoming common place. the more kids that remove their brakes, the more kids that remove their brakes. :)
think about skateboards, they don't have brakes.
todays stunt riding isn't your parents freestyle. :D
catatonic
07-06-05, 08:09 PM
true, but if you are not in the skatepark...those brakes should be on there.
It's not hard at all to remove the cable and the caliper if you use re-usable zip ties etc to mount the cable when getting back on the road. The calipers come off easily with an allen wrench
Cycliste
07-07-05, 08:29 AM
The law in MA says mandatory helmet for 12 years old or younger, anywhere at all times, not 18, though they are recommended for all riders or any age. You may recover from any body injury but hardly from a broken skull.
Your brakes (not feet :rolleyes: ) must be good enough to bring you to a stop, from a speed of 15 miles an hour, within 30 feet of braking. This distance assumes a dry, clean, hard, level surface.
This cop was only doing the right thing for your own and friends safety. Now that you've done it, keep it as a good memory and ride safe!
Mass bike laws can be found @ http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/
not everyone has a skatepark. more importantly, stunt riding on a bmx bike is about freedom of expression. doing stunts on various objects is part of the 'game'.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to give some insight on bmx freestyle in it's current state.
GameTimeTwo
07-07-05, 06:41 PM
My son was clocked at 42mph by the local police. It is a very steep downhill that I can do over 50 on my roadbike ( I got little nads ). So 40 is possible on a BMX bike for all you doubters or riders with smallers nads then me.
catatonic
07-07-05, 08:44 PM
I know all about trick riding, it's just there's ways to have the brake and still be able to do tricks, that's all.
I'm not really trying to argue it either, just providing some feedback from the other viewpoint. I'm just worried about safety...nike's aren't exactly the best brakes you know :p
LiLCheZZBall
07-07-05, 09:52 PM
40 mph isn't hard to get on a bmx bike. I had a speedometer (its broke now) and I was going 37 on a hill thats like 58 degrees steep and I was pedaling hard though. If you can pedal hard then you can reach 40. Beside I think he said AROUND 40 mph.
My son was clocked at 42mph by the local police. It is a very steep downhill that I can do over 50 on my roadbike ( I got little nads ). So 40 is possible on a BMX bike for all you doubters or riders with smallers nads then me.
We can't believe those radar guns... :D
I know all about trick riding, it's just there's ways to have the brake and still be able to do tricks, that's all.
but why have the brakes if your not going to use them?
some kids don't need brakes to jump down stairs or what have you.
remember, this is the same crowd that doesn't wear helmets or pads most times. :)
if the argument (I know, we aren't arguing..) is they should have brakes for safety, I think it's the wrong crowd to be talking to...:D
The Vans triple crown riders were hitting 40mph a few years back on dirt, so don't tell me it's not possible on the road. And don't forget those gravity bikes :)
catatonic
07-08-05, 08:35 PM
but why have the brakes if your not going to use them?
some kids don't need brakes to jump down stairs or what have you.
remember, this is the same crowd that doesn't wear helmets or pads most times. :)
if the argument (I know, we aren't arguing..) is they should have brakes for safety, I think it's the wrong crowd to be talking to...:D
Exactly, they see it as they don't need it for tricks, I see it as "what if some guy pulls out of a driveway right in front of them as they barrel down a road".
There are a few kids here just like that, and I tried to talk some sense into them, even explaining that evices exists so the cable obstruction is a non-issue (Oryg detangler), but they still think they don't need it....I guess with the pedestrian fatality rate this city has, I thought more riders would give a heck...it's pretty depressing really, knowing that they pretty much have to rely on luck if something like that happens.
I used to be that kid that used nikes to stop....so I know how bad things can end up....I was lucky and slid past just in time....I had nice road rash, but went right home, got the wrenches, and put that caliper back on....
Dchiefransom
07-08-05, 08:40 PM
not everyone has a skatepark. more importantly, stunt riding on a bmx bike is about freedom of expression. doing stunts on various objects is part of the 'game'.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to give some insight on bmx freestyle in it's current state.
Do you own the objects you're riding on? Skateboarders and bicycle riders have destroyed the marble before on city buildings in Vallejo, Ca.
Dchiefransom
07-08-05, 08:43 PM
40 mph isn't hard to get on a bmx bike. I had a speedometer (its broke now) and I was going 37 on a hill thats like 58 degrees steep and I was pedaling hard though. If you can pedal hard then you can reach 40. Beside I think he said AROUND 40 mph.
On a 58 degree hill, you should be able to take your feet off the pedals and exceed 50 mph, easily.
I used to be that kid that used nikes to stop....so I know how bad things can end up....I was lucky and slid past just in time....I had nice road rash, but went right home, got the wrenches, and put that caliper back on....
Well duh! Eveyone knows Nike makes running shoes. You should only stick Vans in your front wheel. :D
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.