Professional Cycling For the Fans - Jan Ulrich is finished . . .

Any career with a TDF, four second places in the TDF, 1 Vuelta, 1 world time trial championship, a Tour de Suisse overall victory and an Olympic medal is a successful career.

I'm not saying it isn't succesful. I'm just questioning if it's great...as in hall of fame great. I think perhaps not.

How is it not great? Look at the TdF alone! He got second FIVE TIMES, once was helping his teammate win (Bjarne Riis - and I think Ullrich could have beaten him if he wasn't working for him). The other 4 times were to Lance Armstrong. He won in 1997 and last year he had is worst finish ever.... FOURTH! 4th place is noteworthy and great for ANYONE in the Tour de France, yet people rag on Jan for it because it was his WORST finish. Get real man...

Nevermind. I just saw your join date.
. . .
99'er

How is it not great? Look at the TdF alone! He got second FIVE TIMES, once was helping his teammate win (Bjarne Riis - and I think Ullrich could have beaten him if he wasn't working for him). The other 4 times were to Lance Armstrong. He won in 1997 and last year he had is worst finish ever.... FOURTH! 4th place is noteworthy and great for ANYONE in the Tour de France, yet people rag on Jan for it because it was his WORST finish. Get real man...


we're clearly talking about two different things. never mind

I am going to have agree with Skydive69 on this one. Perhaps you would not consider those 2nd place finishes in the tour Hall of Fame worthy. But it is definitely his misfortune to exist in a time when one of the greatest atheletes to ever live happened to be in his prime.

Pantani was a GREAT cyclist and won much less than Jan has in his career. Lemond never had the success that Jan has. He won the tour 3 times vs Jan's once...But Podium finishes, Jan was much more consistent (5 Podiums, including the 1997 win and a 4th place) yet most consider Lemond a GOD to American cycling.

Jan is no Lance that is for sure...But he definitely deserves his place in the cycling history books.

It's true, jan had the misfortune to race in the lance era... like all those guys who had to cope with Indurain. Alex Zulle could have won the tour for sure, but first it was Indurain, then Lance... mind you he did win the vuelta twice. I think he's also a hall of famer- two grand tours, huge stage wins, TT world champ.

Anyway, lance won the tour six times but it doesn't take away from Jan's sccomplishments or anyone else's. Hey there are those who have beaten Lance at various races, like Erik Dekker! No doubt Jan could do better and has made mistakes, he seems to have bum luck sometimes.

I'm glad you've been following the Tour since I was on training wheels. Regardless, my point stands and you are incorrect: Klöden is already struggling severely. His season has been absolutely terrible so far. A few months ago, he couldn't even get through a race without abandoning. He will not be anywhere near the front when the road goes up. Ullrich and Vino will.

Also, Ullrich not great? I beg to differ. A TdF win, five second place finishes, a fourth place finish, an Olympic gold medal, an Olympic silver medal, a Vuelta a Espana win, a World Time Trial Championship, amateur World Road Race Championship, and many, many other notables. Want me to go on?

Please, not great? The only race your hero Lance can beat Jan in is the Tour de France.



Now thats a palmares to be proud of...And Ullrich has to defend himself????? The only person to challenge Ullrich is LA, perhaps one of the 2 best TDF riders ever...over 100 years. The only people Jan should be defensive to is LA,Jans team and management. Jan handles his defeats with class and heart even if not the most dedicated rider...for cryin out loud the guy has been racing since his early teens in the East German program...Ya think that might burn you out a little!!!! Accentuate the positive...eliminate the negative

Editors of Velonews seem to have the same opinion. Jan himself once said it is impossible to recover 45 seconds on Lance.

It is still too early to tell. But Vinokourov is the man to watch this year.
http://www.velonews.com/tour2005/news/articles/8372.0.html

Seems that T-mobile is already shifting its efforts to a new team captain. Other teams as well as the press have taken note as well.

Quote from CyclingNews:

" The Berliner Zeitung believes the time has already come. "And now he has already lost his status as No. 1 on the team. To Alexander Vinokourov!" The team may deny it, but the paper notes that yesterday Vinokourov "was protected by Guerini, Nardello and Kessler. They were planned as Jan's most important helpers," while "Ullrich himself chatted way back in the field with buddy Steinhauser. Is this the end of a great era?"

Seems that T-mobile is already shifting its efforts to a new team captain. Other teams as well as the press have taken note as well.

Quote from CyclingNews:

" The Berliner Zeitung believes the time has already come. "And now he has already lost his status as No. 1 on the team. To Alexander Vinokourov!" The team may deny it, but the paper notes that yesterday Vinokourov "was protected by Guerini, Nardello and Kessler. They were planned as Jan's most important helpers," while "Ullrich himself chatted way back in the field with buddy Steinhauser. Is this the end of a great era?"

Ya know, if Ullrich's ego can swallow it, and give the support to Vinokourov, Ullrich would be a killer weapon to have around, he gets out on a breakway after people have wrote him off as not being in GC contention anymore and he would have a decent shot at not getting caught by the peloton.The man can still crush people on a bike.

Please, not great? The only race your hero Lance can beat Jan in is the Tour de France.

Ahh, not anymore really. I guess in the past he was a much better all around rider. But this century, who is better in the spring classics? Or the June stage races? Also, who has had the better record of their careers, over all types of races? Definetly Armstrong.
Jan can put a few good finishes after July... but those seem few and far between now.

Ya know, if Ullrich's ego can swallow it, and give the support to Vinokourov, Ullrich would be a killer weapon to have around, he gets out on a breakway after people have wrote him off as not being in GC contention anymore and he would have a decent shot at not getting caught by the peloton.The man can still crush people on a bike.

That's a great observation. Discovery has always had the priviledge of Hincapie, Ekimov and now the rest of the team. Any one of these guys alone in a break must be chased down.(ie Dave Zabriskie in last year's Vuelta)
If T-Mobile can coordinate Ulrich to garner attention with strategically placed attacks during key moments, then Vino could be positioned to take advantage while Discovery is kept unaware. Kloden seems to be waking up too. T-mobile's biggest challenge will be containing the egos within their ranks and concentrate on one captain. Unfortunately, there are other distractions amongst TMO's management including TMO Sponsorship demands and Rudy Pevenage(?) All of whom have high stakes invested in Ulrich--not Vinokourov.

I am sure all scenarios are currently being examined by Bruyneel and his strategists. As well as the shrewed strategists working for Bjarn Riis at CSC.

I don't think strategic attacks will really even work at all. Discovery is just too strong. Armstrong most likely will have to be beaten man to man in the mountains, on the finishing climbs. One small hope TMobile could have is Armstrong having a bad day - where TMobile is the one pushing the pace. The problem with Armstrong having the Discovery team is that they make it near impossible to beat him without simply being stronger.



If T-Mobile can coordinate Ulrich to garner attention with strategically placed attacks during key moments, then Vino could be positioned to take advantage while Discovery is kept unaware.

How do you suppose they will 'catch them by suprise'? Particularily if Discovery is already chasing down one rider, their pace will make it nearly impossible for another rider to make a decent attack.

I don't think strategic attacks will really even work at all. ......How do you suppose they will 'catch them by suprise'? Particularily if Discovery is already chasing down one rider, their pace will make it nearly impossible for another rider to make a decent attack.

Impossible? Hardly--that's how this race has been won for decades.

Recent Example:
Two years ago, Ulrich(Team Bianchi) Vinokourov (T-Mobile) Beloki (Once) and the Euskatel boys all attacked Lance in the mountains. Waiting until the last remaining ascents of each mountain stage, the coordinated attacks required Lance to respond to each attack eventually wearing him down. He had already exhausted his teammates and was alone. At this point in the TDF, there was 18 seconds seperating the 1 & 2nd place leaders. It wasn't until Beloki crashed that Lance was able to contain Vino (Mano O Mano). Ulrich did not have the priviledge of a strong team and ultimately didn't figure into the final equation.

This years race looks to be formulating similar conditions for just such a scenario. Except this year, Kloden, Ulrich, and Vino are on the same team. That was the point of my previous post.

T-mobile, CSC, and Liberty Seguros have all fielded the stongest team in years. Barring misfortune, This should be a close race and tactics will play a very big role.

Impossible? Hardly--that's how this race has been won for decades.


When was the last time that the Tour was won by a rider that was weaker but used strategic attacks?
Must have been over 15 years ago. In 2003, Armstrong really didn't have his normal form. And he wasn't even really worried about Mayo and Vino, as he knew he would better them in the final TT. He didn't really try to hold with Mayo or Vino on l'Alpe d'Huez as much as he tried to hold with Beloki. It probably would have been Beloki to win that stage if Armstrong didn't mark him and rather marked the others.

I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be beaten that way... but like I said IF he is the strongest rider and has no issues like a bad crash, it is extremely unlikely that he will be outfoxed.

hey wise ass my join date is because I'm too busy riding, and I've been following the tour since you were on training wheels. The point was the Ullirch is simply not great. Very good: yes. But a serious contender not even a little.


Not even a little? Yeah, and Im sure you are....as the old addage says, those who can, do and those who cant, talk crap. Speaking of training wheels, you should get back on yours, maybe someday you might be able to ride in the TdF, that is if you eat all your veggies.....

I see a lot of post about Jan and his time trialing ability, and how he can pick up time on Lance. When was the last time Jan picked up time on Lance in a TDF time trial? In the tour Lance seems to be a time trial son of a gun. I was in awe of his time trial last year where he ran down Basso, and yesterday was amazing. I really thought the entire field would be starting 1 minute behind David Z.

Richard

some people make comment without really knowning what they are talking about eh?

2003
- prologue Jan beat Lance by 5 sec
- Gaillac - Cap' Découverte, Jan beat Lance by 1:36!, over 47km, the next closest was Vino at 2:06
- Pornic - Nantes, 49 km Jan was quicker at every time check but crashed.

I think 2003 might've been the last gasp of Jan, unfortunately.

anyone who wants to argue that Jan is not a "great" bike rider is just a lost cause... don't waste your time. 2nd at the TdF at the age of 22 (probably could have won it if he wasn't working for Riis), won it at 23... people are falling all over themselves because Cunego won the Giro at 23, Jan already had two podium finishes an the TdF by that age and one was a win... as i said in another post he has been the best or the second best stage racer in the world for over a decade, amature world champion, 2 time pro world champ, vuelta win, tour de suisse... the list goes on, and on... ignorance is the only explaination.. at least do some research before you make such an obviously ignorant comment [shaking my head]

The outcome of the 2004 Tour de France will determine how I will be remembered. Either as a gifted talent who made life difficult for himself, but always managed to succeed in he end, or as a sloppy genius who wasn't capable of using his exceptional talent.

--Jan Ullrich

The outcome of the 2004 Tour de France will determine how I will be remembered. Either as a gifted talent who made life difficult for himself, but always managed to succeed in he end, or as a sloppy genius who wasn't capable of using his exceptional talent.

--Jan Ullrich


TdF winner 1997, 7 stage wins, came in 2nd in years ’96, ’98, ’00, ’01, ’03 and fourth last year. Not to mention his other victories mentioned above. Yeah….what a hack.

hey you name call and spin what I said. I merely questioned if he was hall of fame caliber. By his own admission he underachieved.

hey you name call and spin what I said. I merely questioned if he was hall of fame caliber. By his own admission he underachieved.


Geez.....try reading my posts again. I never called you any names....get it right and stop whining. You blast Ullrich and then dig up one of his quotes to use as fodder? Of course he is going to be hard on himself. Im feel and say about the same thing when I come close but dont win. Hall of fame caliber? Who knows? We will have to see. But belittling a rider with those credentials only makes known your ignorance of the sport.

I never liked Babe Ruth and I thought he ran like a girl. But to belittle him as a baseball player would be REALLY STUPID on my part.

And just to let you know, Im not saying that Ullrich is the Babe Ruth of cycling…

whatever. nice 'ignorant' dig. as a nearly 40 year old guy whose done his time as a II and been following the pros since I was in high school I'm pretty comfortable with my knowledge of the sport. Ullrich is a guy who should have been an all time great but couldn't pull it together.

Well thanks for the info, but I think you missed the point of my post. I never said Jan was not a good time trialer. My point was I don't expect Jan to make up big time on Lance in a TDF TT. You may disagree, but that's life. Armstrong has won 8 out of the 12 long time trials in the TDF since 1999, and has looked unbeatable lately. I guess Jan had his moments two years ago when Lance was ill. Jan is a good rider, but he will need a little luck to help him along in this race. Most riders do.

Richard

the point of this thread I believe was that there's now way, short of an illness or crash, that Ullrich can make up the initital time loss and like last year he'll be forced to ride in support of stronger riders on his team. Frankly I admire his ability to table his ego that way.

whatever. nice 'ignorant' dig. as a nearly 40 year old guy whose done his time as a II and been following the pros since I was in high school I'm pretty comfortable with my knowledge of the sport. Ullrich is a guy who should have been an all time great but couldn't pull it together.

Like you said....whatever.
First of all, the word "ignorance" is not an insult. Everyone is ignorant of something otherwise we wouldnt have to learn anything. So either you didnt mean what you typed and therefore I apologize to you, or you did and therefore my statement stands.

I dont want to waste anymore time with this petty crap. My opinion is Ullrich is a great rider but not an all time great. Your opinion, from what you have previously posted, is that Ullrich isnt. Agree to disagree...enuff time wasted.

Well thanks for the info, but I think you missed the point of my post. I never said Jan was not a good time trialer. My point was I don't expect Jan to make up big time on Lance in a TDF TT. You may disagree, but that's life. Armstrong has won 8 out of the 12 long time trials in the TDF since 1999, and has looked unbeatable lately. I guess Jan had his moments two years ago when Lance was ill. Jan is a good rider, but he will need a little luck to help him along in this race. Most riders do.

Richard

Lance was ill 2 years ago?....he looked fine to me when he won it for the 4th time in a row!

Like you said....whatever.
First of all, the word "ignorance" is not an insult. Everyone is ignorant of something otherwise we wouldnt have to learn anything. So either you didnt mean what you typed and therefore I apologize to you, or you did and therefore my statement stands.

I dont want to waste anymore time with this petty crap. My opinion is Ullrich is a great rider but not an all time great. Your opinion, from what you have previously posted, is that Ullrich isnt. Agree to disagree...enuff time wasted.


I think our opinions are exactly the same...mincing words.

I am going to have agree with Skydive69 on this one. Perhaps you would not consider those 2nd place finishes in the tour Hall of Fame worthy. But it is definitely his misfortune to exist in a time when one of the greatest atheletes to ever live happened to be in his prime.

Pantani was a GREAT cyclist and won much less than Jan has in his career. Lemond never had the success that Jan has. He won the tour 3 times vs Jan's once...But Podium finishes, Jan was much more consistent (5 Podiums, including the 1997 win and a 4th place) yet most consider Lemond a GOD to American cycling.

Jan is no Lance that is for sure...But he definitely deserves his place in the cycling history books.

Jan deserves a place, but how high up is the question. For my money standing right next to Raymond Poulidor.

Perhaps also a place in Germany similar to that of LeMond in the U.S. Jan is clearly one of the greatest German cyclists ever. But the only other one I can think of is Rudi Altig.

LeMond does not trail Ulrich in Podiums. Inaddition to his 3 wins he had a 3rd in 84 and a second in 85. Both times he was not the lead rider of the team he was on and both times he helped support someone else to Yellow. Figneon and Hinault.

LeMond also has a pretty impressive record in the Worlds. With wins in 83 and 89, two seconds and a 4th he is tied for most podium finishes and just one short of the most wins. Done at a time when teams were much more nationalistic thsi is pretty good since he had to pay his dues to even get a shot at getting support from 'his' team.

When was the last time that the Tour was won by a rider that was weaker but used strategic attacks?
Must have been over 15 years ago. In 2003, Armstrong really didn't have his normal form. And he wasn't even really worried about Mayo and Vino, as he knew he would better them in the final TT. He didn't really try to hold with Mayo or Vino on l'Alpe d'Huez as much as he tried to hold with Beloki. It probably would have been Beloki to win that stage if Armstrong didn't mark him and rather marked the others.

I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be beaten that way... but like I said IF he is the strongest rider and has no issues like a bad crash, it is extremely unlikely that he will be outfoxed.

Strategic attacks sure played a part in 98. If Pantani was stronger than Ulrich is a question that will never be answered. But aside from stage 15 the gaps between Ulrich and Pantani were similar to those between Lance and several climbers in this years tour. Pantani put the preasue on at teh right time and Ulrich cracked. He lost 8'57" in one day. He lost the Tour by 3'21". No crack most likely no win for Pantani.

Now to be honest Lance has been a master of limiting losses in situations like this. But one never knows. If something like this starts on the next to last clmb and Lance gets put in trouble someone could put the same kind of time on him by the end of the stage.

One could that when Riis defeated Mig in 97 that it was the result of unceasing strategic attacks.

Well thanks for the info, but I think you missed the point of my post. I never said Jan was not a good time trialer. My point was I don't expect Jan to make up big time on Lance in a TDF TT. You may disagree, but that's life. Armstrong has won 8 out of the 12 long time trials in the TDF since 1999, and has looked unbeatable lately. I guess Jan had his moments two years ago when Lance was ill. Jan is a good rider, but he will need a little luck to help him along in this race. Most riders do.

Richard

you were insinuating that Ullrich was incapable of beating Armstrong in a TT, but that is not the case... yes this year is a different story.. but who knows what can happen after putting a couple thousand kms in your legs... and remember Jan was able to drop Lance in a mountain stage in 2003 too.. and remember Jan has no jump.. he just increased the speed so much that Lance couldn't hold on any more... Lance dug deep and brought back a 20 sec deficit to 7sec but you shouldn't under estimate Jan's ability to climb either.

Lance wasn't ill in 2003, just ill prepared... some would say, over-prepared or over-trained... how come no one gets on Lances butt for coming to the TdF in 2003 in sub par form... he came really close to blowing it... if Beloki had finished that race I'm convinced Lance would have lost and either Beloki or Jan would have won... with Beloki in there Lance and team had a really hard time controlling things, with Beloki out things settled down. it's funny that when Lance gets beat when he arrives ill prepared it's not his fault but when Ullrich get beat everyone just jumps on him... if the ganging up happens again and Lance can be separated from his team as he was in 2003 they can push the kibosh on him again.

armstrong was clearly ill prepared, but based on prior success he was able to keep his head and find a way to win. the biggest issue with trying to beat him is separating him from his team...they have some of the best climbers in the race on the squad. and every time some team steals away a trusted lt. they find a way to lure another ace climber onto the squad.

you were insinuating that Ullrich was incapable of beating Armstrong in a TT, but that is not the case... yes this year is a different story.. but who knows what can happen after putting a couple thousand kms in your legs... and remember Jan was able to drop Lance in a mountain stage in 2003 too.. and remember Jan has no jump.. he just increased the speed so much that Lance couldn't hold on any more... Lance dug deep and brought back a 20 sec deficit to 7sec but you shouldn't under estimate Jan's ability to climb either.

Lance wasn't ill in 2003, just ill prepared... some would say, over-prepared or over-trained... how come no one gets on Lances butt for coming to the TdF in 2003 in sub par form... he came really close to blowing it... if Beloki had finished that race I'm convinced Lance would have lost and either Beloki or Jan would have won... with Beloki in there Lance and team had a really hard time controlling things, with Beloki out things settled down. it's funny that when Lance gets beat when he arrives ill prepared it's not his fault but when Ullrich get beat everyone just jumps on him... if the ganging up happens again and Lance can be separated from his team as he was in 2003 they can push the kibosh on him again.

I never insinuated Jan cannot beat Lance in a time trial. My post was made right after Lance was beaten in a time trial. I really don't think Jan will gain major time in a TT however. But it could happen. Anything can happen.

Lance is not bashed because he wins. He overcomes and wins. There are always "If's" when speaking of Lance. If this had happened, or that hadn't happened Lance would have lost, but those things did, or didn't happen, so he won. A couple of sayings come to mind; "Chance favors the prepared", and "The Harder I work the Luckier I Get".

If Jan won the tour he would not get all the flack he does. Jan's only problem is racing the TDF in Lance's era. It is like all of the NBA hopefuls in the Michael Jordan era.

Anything can happen that's why they race. If we knew there would be no point in doing it. I personally would like to see George Hincapie win, but that is not going to happen unless it really gets crazy.

Richard

Don't forget that the race is not over. Look what happened at the giro; wait for the fat lady.

Strategic attacks sure played a part in 98. If Pantani was stronger than Ulrich is a question that will never be answered. But aside from stage 15 the gaps between Ulrich and Pantani were similar to those between Lance and several climbers in this years tour. Pantani put the preasue on at teh right time and Ulrich cracked. He lost 8'57" in one day. He lost the Tour by 3'21". No crack most likely no win for Pantani.

That was an obvious showing of poor form. It's not like he outsmarted him - he simply crushed him in pure ability on that stage.



One could that when Riis defeated Mig in 97 that it was the result of unceasing strategic attacks.

That was 1996. I don't know why people always talk about that race like Riis was the only one to beat Indurain - which he wasn't. Indurain finished 11th, not second. And Riis showed himself to clearly be the strongest of that race - either dominating or being right up with the leader on every major stage (time trial and mountains). He simply rode away from all of his challengers on the final major climb of the three biggest stages.



Lance wasn't ill in 2003, just ill prepared... some would say, over-prepared or over-trained... how come no one gets on Lances butt for coming to the TdF in 2003 in sub par form... he came really close to blowing it...

He WAS ill. He said this many times. He started the race ill. He has said himself that if there was a mountain stage in the first week, he would have lost it there. Not to mention being clearly dehydrated, possibly relating to his early illness, on that first long ITT. His gradually increasing form after that ITT clearly illustrated that he was gradually recovering from illness/dehydration.

Perhaps also a place in Germany similar to that of LeMond in the U.S. Jan is clearly one of the greatest German cyclists ever. But the only other one I can think of is Rudi Altig.


I would argue that Eric Zabel is one of Germany's greatest riders. Just because one doesn't
win the GC at the tour does not mean he isn't a great rider.

Marty

I would love to see a surprise winner at the end of this year's Tour.

I would argue that Eric Zabel is one of Germany's greatest riders. Just because one doesn't
win the GC at the tour does not mean he isn't a great rider.

Marty


i don't think anyone would argue with you coinsidering the number of green jerseys hanging in the guy's closest. a shame he got left off the team I think

Don't forget that the race is not over. Look what happened at the giro; wait for the fat lady.

What fat lady WHERE?!

I would argue that Eric Zabel is one of Germany's greatest riders. Just because one doesn't
win the GC at the tour does not mean he isn't a great rider.

Marty

Quite right. I was looking to the past and forgot Zabel. His Green Jersey numbers are even more impressive when you consider that at least a couple of them were gained with minimal support from his team, since most of the support went in hopes of Yellow.

What fat lady WHERE?!

The "suprise" podium girl in Paris.

You'll know what I'm talking about when you see her :eek:

This was on Cyclingnews today:

Altig on Ullrich, "I'm tired of his excuses"

Former World Champion and German cycling legend Rudi Altig, 68, says he is tired of Jan Ullrich's excuses for not doing better. "He earns €250,000 a month but doesn't give anything back to cycling." Altig noted that "Last year he won the Tour de Suisse, this year he lost it in the mountains and then they tell us, he is stronger than ever."

Furthermore, "Before the Time Trial, Jan said that he didn't have any more pain from his crash. Afterwards he said that it had affected him. I can't take that any more!"

Altig agreed with Eddy Merckx in doubting Ullrich's mental strength: "In his head he has to really want to beat Armstrong. Physically, he can do it. But I think Jan just doesn't enjoy his job enough anymore." He says that his criticism is meant to motivate Ullrich. "I like Jan. He can beat Armstrong. I want him to finally live up to his capabilities."

oddly, Kloden is on the attack. :wave

That was an obvious showing of poor form. It's not like he outsmarted him - he simply crushed him in pure ability on that stage.



That was 1996. I don't know why people always talk about that race like Riis was the only one to beat Indurain - which he wasn't. Indurain finished 11th, not second. And Riis showed himself to clearly be the strongest of that race - either dominating or being right up with the leader on every major stage (time trial and mountains). He simply rode away from all of his challengers on the final major climb of the three biggest stages.



He WAS ill. He said this many times. He started the race ill. He has said himself that if there was a mountain stage in the first week, he would have lost it there. Not to mention being clearly dehydrated, possibly relating to his early illness, on that first long ITT. His gradually increasing form after that ITT clearly illustrated that he was gradually recovering from illness/dehydration.

well you are going to have to show me some quote, film clip, something, because this is the first I'm hearing about this... i know he said he bonked, he dehydrated, his brakes were rubbing... actually, now that I'm looking at the list they start to look like excuses... even if they are true they are bone headed amateurish mistakes, but i never heard he was sick... do you have a news story about that?

well you are going to have to show me some quote, film clip, something, because this is the first I'm hearing about this... i know he said he bonked, he dehydrated, his brakes were rubbing... actually, now that I'm looking at the list they start to look like excuses... even if they are true they are bone headed amateurish mistakes, but i never heard he was sick... do you have a news story about that?
Lance had a stomach bug, thanks to his kids.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/tour03/?id=results/stage20

" "During this Tour, I started with some little physical problems. before the Tour, I had diarrhoea and stomach problems and then tendonitis in the hips from new shoes and cleats. I wasn't feeling normal on the bike."

Lance had a stomach bug, thanks to his kids.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2003/tour03/?id=results/stage20

" "During this Tour, I started with some little physical problems. before the Tour, I had diarrhoea and stomach problems and then tendonitis in the hips from new shoes and cleats. I wasn't feeling normal on the bike."

it says before the tour he had a stomach bug... it says nothing about during the tour... it does say that Ullrich was running a fever after his Lance beating timetrial... nothing about Armstrong during the tour though... show me something that says Armstrong was sick during the 2003 tour.