Professional Cycling For the Fans - Why no mirrors?

How come some riders don't have little mirrors on their glasses? It seems like it would help, especially for the sprinters or on a breakaway, or a guy like Hincapie who's always making sure Lance is on his wheel. Are they allowed? Or just not cool? When they look over their shoulders, they sway as much as I do, it seems.

Well it wouldnt help sell their sponsors products if they were the coolest looking :D But you will find that most of the time in the sprint they will have a fair idea of where most of the other major contendors are

How come some riders don't have little mirrors on their glasses?

Some things are just unnecessary.

It's not hard to figure out what's around you in the middle of a peleton.
For bigger obstacles there's always the radio with which to get info.

If wheels are touched it's not the rider in front who's going down

Ask any NASCAR driver, if he would race without a mirror. Sure he can drive, but he can't win the race.

WTF does Nascar have to do with TdF?

Okay, let's think of the practicality of having mirrors on your glasses or your bike for that matter.

If you're sprinting to the line at 30+ mph, do you know how steady you'd have to hold your head or your bike to be able to get a clear picture of anything behind you.? I don't know about you, but when I'm out of the saddle sprinting, or even giving max effort while seated, the last thing I'm going to want to do is try to hold my head perfectly still and at exactly the right angle to see what's behind me. There's just no way in the "heat of battle" having a small mirror mounted anywhere on you is going to make any sense. You're going to be rockin' and rollin' and so is that tiny mirror.

WTF does Nascar have to do with TdF?

Other than drafting, not much.

People can swivel their heads on their necks, sense of hearing tells you alot as well.Not like your in a car and have blind spots.You can also talk to all the guys around you, although you'd never know that from the TV coverage, the commentators never shut up long enough so the viewers can hear the chit chat going on in the peleton.You can catch very brief parts of it but never enough to get an idea of whats really going on.Sometimes I wish they would just shut up for a few minutes so we can hear what the riders are saying to each other, its kinda facinating sometimes and far more accurate than the BS liggett and sherwin spew all the time.

welll maybe because it's stupid and dangerous to look over your shoulder during a NASCAR race. And wouldn't they have their helmets tied in somehow so they can't break their neck in a crash anyway.

On a bike it's prefectly fine, it's a skill most 4 year olds develop when they learn to ride a bike, I think the pros can handle it.

Worst thread ever.....

Mods...please delete.

Forget mirrors. Have them put training wheels on the bikes. Then they can't fall.

Those riders are young, limber, and live on their bikes. They can look over/under their shoulder as easily and safely as they can look in a mirror - except maybe for Zabriskie.

Worst thread ever.....

Mods...please delete.
Agreed. Mirrors = extra useless weight

But it does remind me. How in hell do the GP motorcycle riders - going at speeds up to 200 miles per hour - do without them??? I understand that they may add a bit of wind resistance, but ...

Sports world is such a conservative place. They usually end up the way they started. Most of them never change the way they do things during their career.

Inventor of Fosburry flap says it took a whole generation of high jumpers to change the old technique, rolls on the frontside over the bar. The jumpers start their career rolling on the belly had never converted to flap method even though the result had shown quite obvious that the new technique was better.

Same thing you can say to the over sized racket tennis players use. Many expert were saying they were
for beginners until top pros start using it. The advantage was ovbious that they couldn't win against the players who used it.

Cycling world seems even more conservative. There is some kind of apprenticeship everybody has to obey the unwritten rules handed by the older generation to the next. One of the memorable is LeMond was criticized by the other riders for eating ice cream before the race. I never figured out what was the problem with the other guys but seems that was norm and known to every racers.
No mirror is just the way they started and they developed the techniques without it. They don't even think about if there is a better way. Just the same way, when a new driver learn how to drive without using mirror, he'll never get use to using it. He'll be in denial all his life, he's less aware what's going on around him than others. He thinks he can be just as safe as any driver who use the mirror. He always wonder why anybody put mirrors on his car in the first place.

Disadvantage of using mirrors on the bike:
None---Small bar end mirror made of Polycarbonate can be made at 20 grams. Aerodynamic resistance, not much.

Advantage of using mirrors:
* The rider can keep the head straight.
* The rider can keep watching on the other guys without taking eyes off the front. When everybody is sprinting, the fraction of a second becomes critical.

Disadvantage of no mirrors:
* You can't keep eyes on other guys. You have to take time to look around which means you take a look less often than using mirrors. You look back every two seconds, three seconds or maybe 5 seconds? either way, the guy behind you has an advantage of monitoring you continuously. 2 seconds is a long time. You can monitor the guy behind you continuously with the mirrors.
* Turning head create wind resistance. The best, aerodynamically is head forward face down, like you see the sprinters do at the finish line
* Turning head gives less leverage at the sprint. You don't see sprinters turn their head to GET leverage. If not for checking other guys, they wouldn't do it.

Advantage of no mirrors:
* Weight saving of 20 grams? Aerodynamics? You tell me.

Closest real world example would be, even though I wasn't there so I can only imagine, last year at the moutain stage of TDF. The stage ended with mild descent. The leader was in striking distance ahead of Armstrong and Landis. Armstrong gave Landis a go ahead sign to win the stage. Landis had run out of gas just before the finish line and Armstrong saw it. Armstrong step aside of Landis and sped past him and the leader. The leader(I forgot his name) kept look around made sure everybody in safe distance behind him. Between his turning heads, he missed Armstrong approaching him from other side. When the leader looked to Armstrong side, it was too late. Lance's wheel was already ahead of him. Probably everybody remember the picture of lance raising his arms, rolling the tongue in his mouth, wearing his yellow jersey. If the leader had kept monitoring where everybody was, he would have known Armstrong was sneaking up on him.

So, I explained to you what I think. Now it's your time to explain. If you feel like throw your emotion at me by some meaningless word, you'd better give the opportunity to someone else who can make a logical explanation.

Ask any NASCAR driver, if he would race without a mirror. Sure he can drive, but he can't win the race.


when are you gonna get it that the TDF is not nascar. name me one man who has one a single pro race by benefit of a mirror.

I've wondered the same thing about Tour riders. They're about 20 leagues above me, though, so whatever they do must work just fine for them. As for me, I'd rather ride naked than without my little glasses mirror. I'll ride without a helmet, but NEVER without my mirror. Too paranoid - gots to know when big bad cars are coming up behind me.

But it does remind me. How in hell do the GP motorcycle riders - going at speeds up to 200 miles per hour - do without them??? I understand that they may add a bit of wind resistance, but ...
Because any image you could see would be a shaking blurr. Plus if your in front you don't care what is behind you, you keep going as fast as you can if they want to pass that is their worry.

Moderators, please save us further misery and kill this thread..

omg

Moderators, please save us further misery and kill this thread..

I think this thread possibly makes a good debate but con-mirrors are not making good arguments. They are avoiding serious conversation but only making fun of others.

Not even one serious comment. I feel like already won the debate. :D

I think this thread possibly makes a good debate but con-mirrors are not making good arguments. They are avoiding serious conversation but only making fun of others.

Not even one serious comment. I feel like already won the debate. :D

The only con needed...one I stated before, but I'll do it again; they would be next to impossible to use. Try using a bar-end mirror to see one guy who could be anywhere behind you while A) climbing out of the saddle B) sprinting at full speed. If you can keep a little "20 gram" mirror still and in the proper location long enough to be able to see someone behind you, then you get a medal. The same thing goes for a mirror on your helmet. The energy and time required to look in your mirror while adjusting your head to just the right position while going all out would be ridiculous.

I don't mean to be rude, but I wonder if you've ever raced before? I can't imagine taking the time or energy to try to adjust a mirror to look behind me when it takes literally a second to turn my head to get a much better view of what is behind me than a little mirror could. When I am going all out, which is usually the only time I even care who is behind me, I don't want to take the time to try to look through a small aerodynamic mirror, when I can look behind me for an instant and be done with it.

I'm sorry but there is really no need for them, or any practical way to use them that would make them more efficient than a glance behind you.

Worst thread ever.....

Mods...please delete.
And no kickstands !!

The only con needed...one I stated before, but I'll do it again; they would be next to impossible to use. Try using a bar-end mirror to see one guy who could be anywhere behind you while A) climbing out of the saddle B) sprinting at full speed. If you can keep a little "20 gram" mirror still and in the proper location long enough to be able to see someone behind you, then you get a medal. The same thing goes for a mirror on your helmet. The energy and time required to look in your mirror while adjusting your head to just the right position while going all out would be ridiculous.

I don't mean to be rude, but I wonder if you've ever raced before? I can't imagine taking the time or energy to try to adjust a mirror to look behind me when it takes literally a second to turn my head to get a much better view of what is behind me than a little mirror could. When I am going all out, which is usually the only time I even care who is behind me, I don't want to take the time to try to look through a small aerodynamic mirror, when I can look behind me for an instant and be done with it.

I'm sorry but there is really no need for them, or any practical way to use them that would make them more efficient than a glance behind you.

The difference between the people use it and who don't is that the people who use mirrors have choice, either looking in the mirror or turning head back and look. So, they know what the other side is talking about. People who don't use a mirror, they have no choice but turn head. So, they don't know what other side is talking about.

I have had my mirror on my bike for quite a while. I hardly turn my head but only last time before change the lane to make left, I look back, just to make sure, which I eventually will skip as I get more used to the mirror.

So, my question is, how do you know if it's useful or not at least you try it in positive attitude for long enough to get used to it?

Most people I know have never used it then they say don't like it. While some others say they used it for a while just to make sure so they can tell others they didn't like it. They don't have an attitude of work things out in positive way. Sure, I had some problem with my mirror moves around(and another helmet mirror I tried and didn't like). I knew I wanted to used it, so I fixed it by putting a rubber washer between the plastic parts. Now I have to adjust it only once when I get on my bike first time of the day, or when something hit the mirror which doesn't happen very often while I'm riding.

Have you tried mirrors on your bike, Jaco? It's not a matter of if you race or not, I have seen some member here, who was saying he used in the race and wouldn't race without one. Don't you think ....


"Closest real world example would be, even though I wasn't there so I can only imagine, last year at the moutain stage of TDF. The stage ended with mild descent. The leader was in striking distance ahead of Armstrong and Landis. Armstrong gave Landis a go ahead sign to win the stage. Landis had run out of gas just before the finish line and Armstrong saw it. Armstrong step aside of Landis and sped past him and the leader. The leader(I forgot his name) kept look around made sure everybody in safe distance behind him. Between his turning heads, he missed Armstrong approaching him from other side. When the leader looked to Armstrong side, it was too late. Lance's wheel was already ahead of him. Probably everybody remember the picture of lance raising his arms, rolling the tongue in his mouth, wearing his yellow jersey. If the leader had kept monitoring where everybody was, he would have known Armstrong was sneaking up on him."


...this guy wished he had somebody to tell him that Lance was sneaking up on him? The leader was even slowed down when he was nearing the finish line "until" he saw Lance passing by. He tried to accelerate but it was too late. You remember this if you saw last years TDF and you are "true cyclist" I don't pretend that I'm a "true cyclist" but I still remember it.

I don't know if the guy who missed his opportunity to win the stage had learned something from that incident but I'm guessing using a mirror isn't one of them.

The reason people who have problem even trying mirrors are (often call themselves "true cyclist") often admirer of professional cyclist and don't think mirrors are "cool" because their heros don't use them. They wouldn't use anything that pros don't use no matter how functional and useful maybe.

All and all, the reason some people don't like it isn't because the mirror is not useful but they are afraid of being seen dorky. So, they keep creating one excuse after another. If you know it, and admit it that's fine. Most people are just in plain denial.

Jaco, mirrors are not that expensive, compare to bike components and some are made just for racing pretty stealthy. Try a couple of different kinds and get back to me in a couple of months and tell me what you think.

The chances are, you won't.

you do realize the MAIN reason cars have mirrors is because of blind spots. a bike has NO blind spots. if you cant look over your shoulder and keep your bike up, go ahead and use a mirror. if you need to write 500 words to make yourself feel better about it, go ahead, but you arent convincing anyone.

Sorry, but for me if it ain't broke don't fix it.

You can call that crass, but I really have never had the need for a mirror in a race. Sure, as you have said if you're "changing lanes," (e.g. commuting) then a mirror makes perfect sense. You're riding in a more controlled setting where you have a stable bike and a stable head.

However, as I've said before, it takes me an instant to turn and look behind me at which point I have a clear view of the entire field behind me. I don't see where it would be practical for me to learn to use a small mirror that even if I did learn how to use it well would never give me the same type of view that a quick head turn would.

Also, this antectdotal about last year's TdF and the possibility of using a mirror on a climb is first of all told from a spectators perspective and is also a lack of judgement on the part of the rider and the team. That rider had an earpiece as well as the ability to check behind him. If he were climbing his way to a hopeful win on a mountain finish, I'd hope that he'd have the sense to check behind him as well as recieve info from his director over his earpiece.

Finally, I do look at the pro's when it comes to my cycling gear. This is because they ride more and their overwhelming experience over mine tells me what is and is not needed. If the pro's felt there was an advantage, I'm sure we'd have mirrors on every bike. However, I tend to believe they think the same thing I do...a split second head turn is much more effective than a small mirror mounted on the bike.

I'm sorry, but when talking about the need for a mirror on the bike all you have is a "what if" story told not by the rider but from a casual observer. Here's my observation on the same story. The rider was beaten on an attack up the mountain. This is as much part of racing as not having a mirror. If the rider had the strength to follow he would have and a mirror would not have made a difference, considering his director sportif was probably screaming in his ear that someone was coming behind him.

Again, mirrors are impractical and not needed.

First off it was Andreas Kloden I believe of T-Mobile, secondly and more importantly you are breaking down one of the most tatical complex moves of the last tour as a reason for mirrors. If you want to understand racing more search for a discussion of this stage here. It was a complex set of moves that were telling about racing as well as the true leadership of T-Mobile since Jan was there as well. Also does anyone know but are mirrors allowed by UCI. I feel like bar end mirrors would be a slight hazard and therefore not allowed. And finally always look over your shoulder before making a move. As soon as you look cars see you and make a conection and really do you trust you mirror to see everywhere, on which if you would need two mirrors to race and people would still be finding those blind spots from mirrors making that head turn more useful.

So, I explained to you what I think. Now it's your time to explain. If you feel like throw your emotion at me by some meaningless word, you'd better give the opportunity to someone else who can make a logical explanation.

Armstrong has thrown tons of technology at winning the TdF- look at all the wind tunnels testing, redesigning of components, adjusting clothing- you name it. He is not one who resists change. I would argue that if he felt it created ANY advantage, he'd be all over it.

When I race, I can't even look at my computer or HRM when I'm pegged.

With all the crashes- one of those glasses or helmet mounted mirrors could literally take an eye out... at least that's what mother always told me.

I don't even trust them for commuting. I tried them for a few weeks, and felt like they blocked more of my forward vision than I gained in being able to see behind me. My ears tell me exactly where the cars/bikes are behind me, and if I want a better idea, it's only a second to glance back. I can't see any way that they would help in a race, but I've never raced so I don't know for sure, but I think most of the racers here have made good points....

On bike trails, I have passed other bikes and almost taken someone down. that with mirrors, and I blamed them for not saying 'passing on left.' I always do.
No I don' know how one knows who is behind them. Mirrors are required on cars.
I do not advocate mirrors for pro tourers, but bet domestiques protecting the lead rider from attackers, have taken someone else down..
Maybe sponsors think mirrors uncool and hurt sales, but so do crashes. Just me. I always ride with a mirror. in particular the take a look mirror that is barely noticeable.

What Jaco said.

My guess is that if mirrors would have been a help to pro riders, they'd be using them now. They know what is needed better than any of us.

I genuinely listen to all ideas presented here but it's hard not to laugh at some of them. In the past two tours we've had these:

1. The entire route should be lined with fences so that fans can't interfere with riders.

2. There should be no flat stages and all stages should be time trials.

3. Riders finishing in a pack should be timed seperately so that fans can experience the fun of seeing 150 domestiques sprinting towards the finish.

Finally, I do look at the pro's when it comes to my cycling gear. This is because they ride more and their overwhelming experience over mine tells me what is and is not needed. If the pro's felt there was an advantage, I'm sure we'd have mirrors on every bike.

The pros do vastly different riding than is done in the 'real world'. TdF is not the real world, it is a very different place, and what works or doesn't work there may have no bearing on what works or doesn't work out here in the cities and towns we live and ride in. If you only ride in group rides with no cars and full support, then yeah, maybe you can emulate the 'pros' to your satisfaction. But if you actually get around with your bike, then you need to look beyond the team kit to see what may or may not be practical.

Our biking industry is too heavily driven on fashion and what the 'pros' do, not real world practicality.

peace,
sam

The pros do vastly different riding than is done in the 'real world'. TdF is not the real world, it is a very different place, and what works or doesn't work there may have no bearing on what works or doesn't work out here in the cities and towns we live and ride in. If you only ride in group rides with no cars and full support, then yeah, maybe you can emulate the 'pros' to your satisfaction. But if you actually get around with your bike, then you need to look beyond the team kit to see what may or may not be practical.

Our biking industry is too heavily driven on fashion and what the 'pros' do, not real world practicality.


This thread though is about why pros don't use them.

I don't use them because I've never found them necessary. If it helps you, great.

Also does anyone know but are mirrors allowed by UCI. I feel like bar end mirrors would be a slight hazard and therefore not allowed.

This probably the most logical reason, if it's true.

So far, this thread has become more meaningful and informative. I appreciate everybody's cooperation.

My guess is that if mirrors would have been a help to pro riders, they'd be using them now.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

Cycling world is very conservative. They don't take every new idea seriously unless it comes from big budget company and pays for it and a team that supports it.

There had been, many different clipless before Look pedal but nothing had caught on. Some are experimental and somehow inferior while others were just as good design as Look pedals(remember that ski binders had been on the market for many years by then). After Look pedal's success, there have been many others followed. If others had introduced them before Look pedals, they all would have had the same way as the old clipless in the past that didn't make it.

anyone had luck with those mirrors that clip on inside your glasses. can't be seen.maybe riders do use them? Doubt it. Safety a second issue or riders would have been wearing helmets years ago.