Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - I'm really p'd at Truvativ/KHS

So , I bought a 2005 KHS flite 100 with the shatty truvativ cranks. The bottom bracket is dieing on me after about 500 miles. It turns out that the truvativ cranks require a 108mm spindle length square taper bottom bracket. After pulling my hair out for 3 hours sitting here looking for a 68x108mm square taper BB, I am convinced that they do not exist.

Normally I wouldn't have a problem using a 107mm shimano standard and dealing with the tiny bit of off chainline, but the chainline is already off from the factory because the drivetrain they equip these bikes with now are total crap to begin with. I don't really want to have my chainline get worse because I used a 107mm spindle. So I turn to you guys, helpful members of the SS/FG forum to help me find a quality square taper 68x108mm BB. Please? =)

which way is the chainline off? can you use a 109mm instead?

did you buy that yellow one with the no name parts?

You could go with a 109mm Shimano or Sugino 75 BB...

go with a 109 and hammer the poo on the drive side so it lines up

To be honest with you I'm not quite sure if the chainline is off towards the seattube or away from seattube. All I know is that it makes an ungodly amount of noise, sounds like a bike a bum would be riding around. One of those noises that makes a cyclist say to himself, "Holy crap that guy has no idea how to care for a bike if it makes that much noise." I've tried lubing it, messing with centering the rearwheel in the chainstays, etc. No luck, still makes a ton of noise.

Yeah it's the yellow one with truvativ touro cranks, made for a 108mm spindle length. the funny thing is that while this is truvativ's only square taper crankset left in production, they also make a square taper BB and wouldn't you know it, it doesn't come in 108mm! And, of course no one else makes a 108mm spindle square taper either...I'm seriously thinking about junking the drivetrain and getting it completely replaced with sugino75 gear.

To anyone who was thinking about buying this bike: stop and please kick yourself in the face. KHS took a great bike that used to come with a sugino75 drivetrain and made it a piece of crap. I have literally replaced everything on the bike before I even topped 500miles on it! The handlebars flexed soo much I thought they were going to snap, the stem was a piece of junk, the drivetrain is horrendous, the headset refused to stay tight and I replaced all those already except the drivetrain of course.

Stay away from the 2005 flite 100, it will cause you nothing but headaches. Buy the frame from Gene Spicer for 200 bucks and build the bike yourself.Or try to find a 2004 or older model of the flite 100 since those have the sugino drivetrain. Sorry for the rant =P

this one dude here bought the same bike and he's working on it, and i just had to chuckle at myself because he'll be parts shopping pretty soon as well, this shop was selling it for $5 hundred something and it's all shyte components. some guys i work with were saying they were thinking of buying it when the shop hung it in the window and asking about it, and i said to them all :NO don't waste your money! it's a decent frame, but it's all $5 parts. expect to go wheel shopping soon if you haven't already.
don't know what those guys were thinking when they made that bike up.
to address the chainline, look down at the top of the bike and eyeball the chainline, which should be relatively parallel to the top tube. that should determine if the axle it too short or too long.

Your noise sounds more like your chain is too tight. That would also explain the BB blowing after 500m.

well, before ranting about how crappy your chainline is, you should really measure it first. A noisy chain and a dead BB after 500 miles sounds like a chain tension issue.

Also, is your 108 mm BB symmetrical? If so, using a 107 or 110 mm shimano BB will only move your chainline ~0.5mm *towards* the seat tube.

Just measured it using businesscycles chart. 43.5 from seattube to chainring but couldn't get the rear measurment since I only have a hard ruler and I can't stick that between the wheel and get an accurate measurement.

Regarding chain tension - It's very likely that excessive noise/blown BB after 500m is from the chain being run too tight, The shop put the bike together and the chain was really really tight, rode it that way for about 3 months and then loosened it myself since the chain seemed to be way too tight. But after loosening it, the noise is still there.

the 108mm BB is symmetrical.

A new thought hit my mind as I was out and about just now. If I'm getting a 43.5mm chainline from center of bb shell to chainring, and we all know the only changes to the bike from 2004 to 2005 was the bb/crankset(not hub/cog), shouldn't it follow then that by getting a 107mm spindle bb should actually move my chainline back to a perfect 42.5 for a 120mm spaced frame?

Does anyone who owns a 2004 or older model know what size sugino75 spindle KHS sold with the bike?

Truvativ track crank?. You sure this isn't an ISIS BB?

Have you physically seen the spindle yet cuz I'm betting this is just like the truvativ track crank on Bianchi pista which also take 108mm ISIS.

P.S. ISIS BB are easy to find in 108mm....that's the industry standard for them when used with doubles.

a 107 or 110mm shimano will get your chainline to around 43mm.
(110 is assymetric, with the extra 3 mm being on the non-drive side) but this means nothing, really without a measurement of your rear chainline.

I pulled the BB out of my 2003 (? purple) KHS last week, when I sold the suginos. It was a FSA Ultimax, with, I think a 107mm spindle.

Truvativ track crank?. You sure this isn't an ISIS BB?

Have you physically seen the spindle yet cuz I'm betting this is just like the truvativ track crank on Bianchi pista which also take 108mm ISIS.

P.S. ISIS BB are easy to find in 108mm....that's the industry standard for them when used with doubles.

truvativ touros are square taper.
its not a "true" track crank, it's a double with a single ring mouted inboard on the spider.

truvativ touros are square taper.
its not a "true" track crank, it's a double with a single ring mouted inboard on the spider.

http://www.sram.com/en/truvativ/road/cranksets/touro/double.php

It's this one right here. It does say 108mm square taper, so they have to sell it.

I'll browse this some more.

yup, road double with 1 ring.

Thanks for the info baxtefer. I was under the impression that the crankset/BB from the older flite's were all on the sugino75 system. I was not aware that KHS used a FSA BB with the sugino75 cranks. If the rear of the bike didn't change from 200?-2005(mine still uses a dura ace 3/32" cog with what I'm guessing is the same hub/wheel they have always used on the flite 100), and they used a 107mm spindle with the sugino's then I guess I've found the right size =) oh, you wouldn't happen to have the ultimax bb on hand to measure up would ya? =P

Also, are all 110mm bb's asymetrical? or just shimano's?

edit: another question, would using a 107mm spindle cause damage to my cranks since they aren't going as far up onto the taper as they would with a 108mm?

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/2005_BB-sq&pwrspl-e-r2.pdf

the part # (BB##-PSPL-108/68) is in that PDF. So you should be able to order it. Yeah, they really do make it.

good luck.

KrazieF00,
As far as I know the rear end hasn't changed, but I sold the wheels too, so I couldn't check for you. ( i bought the complete bike and parted out the wheels and cranks to get the frameset price down to about $120)

are you switching to a sugino75 crank? the spindle length required for a correct chainline is based on the crank *you're* using. i.e. a 107mm spindle on a sugino 75 might not give you the same chainline on your truvativ touro. (in any case the sugino actually calls for a 109mm BB for "correct" chainline - that's how long the sugino spindle is.) i don't have the BB anymore, mikorp has it.

In any case *perfect* chainline isn't critical. being 1mm off isn't the end of the world.

I'm not planning on changing to sugino's. I am planning on just changing the BB. But I'm concerned that the crank I have needs a 108mm spindle. The way I see it now is I can go with a 110m asymetrical shimano BB to get me closer to 43mm chainline or I can go with a 107mm spindle. If my crank needs a 108mm spindle wouldnt using a 107mm spindle cause damage to the crank since the hole isn't fitted to the taper of the spindle properly? likewise with the 110mm as you have already pointed out the left side would be sticking out a few mm further than the right.

edit: I know that a bicycle's "proper" chainline is dependant on the bb/crank but it just seems to me that on a flite 100 from before 2004, the chainline was not "proper" for the cranks since you pulled a 107mm bb out of your frame. Whereas, it should have been 109mm to achieve the correct chainline for a sugino75 drivetrain. Also, on a 2005 then the "proper" chainline should already be there based on the 108mm crank and 108mm bb matching they have done. But, it's not because the rear of the bike hasn't changed at all. So they went from one "off" chainline" to another "off" chainline.

So in summary, KHS had a "proper" chaimnline with 2004 and older because the rear of the bike was matched to the sugino75 drivetrain and used a 107mm spindle to get good chainline. KHS messed up that proper chainline they had with the sugino drivetrain by leaving the rear of the bike as is and just changing the bb/crankset to a 108mm spindle. I don't know why, but this has been blowing my mind all day =)
At least that's how im interpreting all this, lol

no it wouldn't damage the crank, as long as:
1. your cranks take a JIS taper (i'd assume so) the shape of the hole is that same, the length of the spindle is just shorter.
2. you have at least 0.5 mm clearance between your crank arm and the BB shell (i.e. so you don't end up bottoming out the crank against the shell)

I don't know what you guys are doing to these bikes to destroy them so quickly, but I have the Mercier version and it hasn't given me any problems yet. Although I'm not working right now, I did messenger work on it for about three months during the winter including in rain and snow and it is still doing well. The headset was creaking so I just cleaned it up and greased it and it's fine now. My bottom bracket and cranks are good. The wheels have been good (surprisingly), but I recently rebuilt the hubs anyway just because I was cleaning up the whole bike.

Anyways, I won't disagree that the parts are bargain basement, but I think they work well enough if you need them to. I think you could save yourself some grief if you just accepted that and enjoyed the bike for what it is instead of stressing about every little thing. If your bottom bracket is bad just try a 107 or 109; I bet either one would probably work. There's no need to go replace everything just because you are frustrated. Now if you really want the stuff and you can afford it and everything than there is nothing wrong with that either I guess, just trying to give a different perspective..

-Jason

my 2003 (? purple) KHS

not that it really matters, but the purple/blueish one is 2004, the 2003 is taxi cab yellow with black fork. Unless they also used the purple for older models.

I have the 03 w/the Sugino 75 crank and the chain line seems to be a bit off for me but i don't have the tools to measure.