Professional Cycling For the Fans - Stage 6: Troyes - Nancy

By now, most folks have heard about the terrible loss of life today in London, England. Any kind of "sports" seems meaningless on a day of such tremendous human suffering.

Many of the riders in the Tour and their support staff have friends and family in London, and for them, today is no longer about a bike race.

One of the aspects of the Tour that has been a central part of its history, is that during times of tragedy, the riders have carried on, even when their hearts were breaking. And today, many hearts have been broken.

The thoughts and prayers of all Americans today should be with the courageous people of London.

Well said.

I would say that it was a bad idea for Vino to waste that energy...
I have to disagree- what energy? He attacked just 2km from the finish. And as you said, he got several seconds... how is that a bad idea?

Vino no matter what anyone is saying (officially) is working for himself.
He is the real threat on T-Mobile.
If he can hang on the mountain top finishes, and the big climbs
he will be a GC threat.

Marty

Of course he is....he's in a contract season! There is no way he farts around for Jan when he's got his own financial future to think about, and now is the time to make impressions on the money holders.

I have to disagree- what energy? He attacked just 2km from the finish. And as you said, he got several seconds... how is that a bad idea?
I agree, he made up almost 20 seconds with a 2k effort. thats quite a bit of time

Any response from Discovery to Vino's attack? Glad to see somebody is trying to win.

I have to disagree- what energy? He attacked just 2km from the finish. And as you said, he got several seconds... how is that a bad idea?

ditto... can't think of a more efficent way to make up 20 sec it's just too bad about him pulling his foot out to avoid the crash... he would have had more time on the road and more bonus seconds for the win... a perfect move though. i'm with 97 Teran on this one... what type of effort would it have taken to put 20 sec into Armstrong on a mountain stage?? alot more than 2km, 2.5 mins of effort on this stage.

Man, that sucks... I feel sorry for Mengin, 700 metres to go... and he's from a town 15 km away.

http://www.velonews.com/images/details/8412.11764.f.jpg

i hope hes okay and can finish the rest of the tour.sad picture.

Man, that sucks... I feel sorry for Mengin, 700 metres to go... and he's from a town 15 km away.
Before it was all over, Mengin, Madiot (the DS), and several others (including a couple of people in this house) were pretty teary.

He was born in 1968, and been a pro since 1995, so is closing in on his retirement. In his home area, and he really wanted to win it. I am not entirely sure he could have if he had not crashed out - Vino had a lot of legs left, as did Bernucci. He may not get many more chances as good as this one.

OTOH, for every sad story, there is a happy one. Bernucci looked very surprised when he found himself with the win. He kissed his wedding ring, and dedicated the win to his wife. Called a "nearly complete unknown" by the France 2 team, he said that he had dreamed of this since being a little kid. It is his first win as a pro. And at least Mengin has one TdF stage victory to his credit.

I have to disagree- what energy? He attacked just 2km from the finish. And as you said, he got several seconds... how is that a bad idea?

I was saying that that is what I first thought when he attacked. But it worked for him. Particularily if he knew about that corner, it was a very smart move. But I was thinking he would have been caught if the run in was straight.

I was saying that that is what I first thought when he attacked. But it worked for him. Particularily if he knew about that corner, it was a very smart move. But I was thinking he would have been caught if the run in was straight.

but even if it failed... what would he lose? nothing... a couple minutes of a hard effort, who cares... so any way about it, it was definitely worth a to try. the only thing i could see someone saying is that the run-in was dangerous and it could have been him into the barrier and not Mengin.. so it was a risky move, but cycling is a risky sport and who ever wants to beat Disco is definitely going to have to take some risks and be bold.

It looks like if Lance wins, at least Vino is going to make it as hard as he can for him. I am pulling for Lance, but I hope to see a close race, like the Giro was. Great move Vino!

It looks like if Lance wins, at least Vino is going to make it as hard as he can for him. I am pulling for Lance, but I hope to see a close race, like the Giro was. Great move Vino!

I agree. That was a kick*ss move from the Kazakh champion. Guy's got brass ones and is in top form!

How about T-Mobile shifting to support Vino? Not saying they will announce it but given that Jan hasn't beaten lance in 5 or 6 attempts why should this year be different? A secret switch to Vino in the mountains with Jan leading him up could really shake Disco and perhaps get a win for them?

Seriously, I don't think Jan has it in him but obviously Vino does and has a great support team. . .thoughts?

Adam

How about T-Mobile shifting to support Vino? Not saying they will announce it but given that Jan hasn't beaten lance in 5 or 6 attempts why should this year be different? A secret switch to Vino in the mountains with Jan leading him up could really shake Disco and perhaps get a win for them?

Seriously, I don't think Jan has it in him but obviously Vino does and has a great support team. . .thoughts?

Adam
It's already looking that way. Vino has been protected by the workhorses of T-Mobile in the bunch these last few stages.. Ullrich really hasn't been. That should say something.

How about T-Mobile shifting to support Vino? Not saying they will announce it but given that Jan hasn't beaten lance in 5 or 6 attempts why should this year be different? A secret switch to Vino in the mountains with Jan leading him up could really shake Disco and perhaps get a win for them?

Seriously, I don't think Jan has it in him but obviously Vino does and has a great support team. . .thoughts?

Adam

IMHO, the time hasn't arrived yet... if Jan falters badly in first couple of mountain stages then it's probably time to jump ship... we'll see.. they have a lot of good help in the mountain... even without Jan or Vino working for each other... in think they need to let this play its self out more first though... the mountain stages this year should suit Ullrich pretty well..

For Vino to get the T-Mobile support, Jan will have to be spit out the back, Quite decisively. This is a German team with a German leader after all. The PR fallout at home would be severe, unless Jan is pretty far down.

Vino no matter what anyone is saying (officially) is working for himself.
He is the real threat on T-Mobile.
If he can hang on the mountain top finishes, and the big climbs
he will be a GC threat.

Marty


You are right. The discussion on the T-mobile team bus is how do we protect Vinokourov? According to a few German newspapers, Jan's three main leutenants have already switched obligations and can be seen working to protect Vino. Jan is elsewhere in the peloton usually taking advantage of Lance's coat-tails which is a strategy that worked for him when he was with team Bianchi.

T-mobile knows Jan is the press darling in Germany. But they also know the value of the Yellow Tunic in Paris and it looks more and more like Vinokourov may prove to be the one that puts T-mobile on the podium this year. Is it a wonder he attacked today? His objective is clearly becoming obvious and it doesn't include the Kaiser.

but even if it failed... what would he lose? nothing... a couple minutes of a hard effort, who cares... so any way about it, it was definitely worth a to try.

Well I guess so. But even 5KM of hard effort isn't necessarily a great idea. These flat stages really wear on the GC riders. (particularily the lighter riders - which is a big reason why they often faulter on GC at the Tour these days)

Anyway I don't see why both Ullrich and Vino can't be supported - at least for the Alps. It's not like that team will ever be leading the pace anyway (until they get the jersey).

T-Mobile has a lot to gain from having both Jan and Vino in the hunt. They can repeatedly attach Armstrong in the mountains and try to isolate him and put him into difficulty.

I will be interested to see if Vino can maintain his combativeness over multiple mountain stages. In '03 he was an animator early, but on the last couple of mountain stages he really yo-yo'd off the back. If he can hold form throughout the mountain stages coming up this should be an exciting Tour.

T-Mobile has a lot to gain from having both Jan and Vino in the hunt. They can repeatedly attach Armstrong in the mountains and try to isolate him and put him into difficulty.

I will be interested to see if Vino can maintain his combativeness over multiple mountain stages. In '03 he was an animator early, but on the last couple of mountain stages he really yo-yo'd off the back. If he can hold form throughout the mountain stages coming up this should be an exciting Tour.
He is much lighter this year for that very reason. I think he proved he can climb with/better than the best on the Ventoux.

Vino road great in the prologue too. His move today was absolute dynamite.

Another sad crash, although I thought Vino was going to take it from Mengin.

I wouldn't read too much into Vino's attack. Vino is all about attacking...it's just what he does. I remember reading a quote from him saying something along the lines of if he felt good he was going to attack, and if he felt bad he was going to attack. He saw a chance to win and he went for it. What's wrong with that?

Did anyone catch McEwen's interview at the end? You could feel the frustration.

Apologies if this has been discussed before:

Last night up late watching this stage, I noticed that when the racers were in the towns I heard the same sequence of crowd cheering, car and bike horns sounding, regular as clockwork. This became annoying then I realized that the cretin sound engineers must be using like a 5 second background sound loop for those parts as fill-in, on top of actual background sounds. In many places there were no spectators but still the cheering. It got so annoying that I phoned the TV network (there was no answer). It even drowned out to some extent the commentators voices.

Anybody else notice this?

VINOVINOVINO

wow how exciting. Who would have expected Lance to lose time to a MAJOR, bigtime rival on such a flat, boring stage. Vino must be really thrilled to have captured some time back on Lance on a stage like this which was kind of billed as a "sprinters" race.

Does anybody know specifically how much time Vino picked up over Lance? LA wasn't too far back, but Vino gets a time bonus as well.

"I picked my moment to attack and would have won the stage if he hadn't crashed," Vinokourov said. "When he went down, I had to brake and take a foot out of the pedal to avoid him."

Who else, among the top contenders to win the Tour, would launch a risky attack on a slippery, wet road other than Vinokourov? Folks can debate whether Vino's eagerness to take risks is "brave" or "foolish", but he can not be accused of "playing it safe" or being "boring".

Do you remember who they were chasing when Beloki crashed two years ago?

VINOVINOVINO

wow how exciting. Who would have expected Lance to lose time to a MAJOR, bigtime rival on such a flat, boring stage. Vino must be really thrilled to have captured some time back on Lance on a stage like this which was kind of billed as a "sprinters" race.

Does anybody know specifically how much time Vino picked up over Lance? LA wasn't too far back, but Vino gets a time bonus as well.

Three seconds time, 12 seconds bonus.

Well I guess so. But even 5KM of hard effort isn't necessarily a great idea. These flat stages really wear on the GC riders. (particularily the lighter riders - which is a big reason why they often faulter on GC at the Tour these days)

Anyway I don't see why both Ullrich and Vino can't be supported - at least for the Alps. It's not like that team will ever be leading the pace anyway (until they get the jersey).

Sorry, you are wrong on this one. When you are the underdog you make these kind of attacks and see what happens. All in all, the bonus for first is worth it and the tactics keep other teams guessing about what will transpire in other stages. As for the support of the riders within the team, I do not think that there is any clear indication yet (it is my impression that Ullrich did more work than Vino yesterday, but so what). We will have to wait until stages 9 and 10 to have a clearer picture, but the worst interpretations of Stage 1 vis a vis Ullrich and TM are not being borne out by stages like yesterday and today.

If the crash had not happened Vino probably would have won it, not Mengin who was clearly the most fatigued of the leading three (although he did still have a small lead). It is not clear if the following group would have caught them (we will never know), but the sprinters and the top chasers were getting their speed up and it was not long before they reach the corner.

I noticed that when the racers were in the towns I heard the same sequence of crowd cheering, car and bike horns sounding, regular as clockwork.
That is because the commentators are at the finish, in the press rooms. When they are talking, it is their background noise you hear.

When you hear the commentary from the motos - Thierry Adam or Jean-Rene Godart on the French channels - you hear their local sound.

I am happy to say that in an interview this morning, Mengin seems pretty well recovered from his debacle yesterday. Except for the really nasty mouse under his left eye. He said that there are no injuries of any concern.

He apparently was born in Vosges somewhere, so wants to make a good impression there today when they race through on their way to Germany.

Sorry, you are wrong on this one.

On the fact that over %90 of the time when a rider tries to get away from the field on a flat run-in with 5KM to go they fail?