Professional Cycling - Stage 12: Briancon - Digne les Bains

Stage 12: Briancon - Digne les Bains, 187km

Another "flat" stage... :lol:

Atleast there is not 60km of flats before the climbing... should make for an interesting stage.

With Climb and Sprint Points:


Looks like a picnic compared to today :)

right. a 35 mph picnic.

Actually from what I have read about Vino this stage should favor his style quite well. He is supposedly not so good on long climbs but most of these look shorter and flater. His explosive power should come to the forefront again. It will be interesting to see if the Disco boys let him launch out again like a Roman Candle or whether they will be content with the lead and let Vino possibly ride himself out before the Pyrenees.

As it's Bastille Day, I'll take a shot and call it a win for Laurent Brochard or David Moncoutie.

Vino just completed one of the hardest rides imaginable, riding without the support of the peloton or his team on one climb after another. So, you'd think he would take it easy on Stage 12. But, Vino always goes all out when he is feeling strong. So, if he is feeling good, he will go for another win on Stage 12.

Vino may never win the Tour. But, theTour is never when boring if Vino is riding well.

And, Basso has been lurking just behind the leaders, waiting to make a move. He seems to be looking for a day where he has a shot at taking two or three minutes from Lance. His best shot is in the mountains, so Basso needs to make his move soon, or be back in the "wait until next year" game.

Will Sastre Launch Basso off at the col du corobin.. or will it be Klodi and Jan ... time will tell ...
A Frenchman will break at the beginning.

Stuey O'Grady's stage this one. :)

Moreau

what's the deal with Riis not supporting Voigt? he just missed the cut off by less than a minute, Riis should have assigned someone to pace Voigt in! Now CSC is down another rider, this is only going to hurt them.

what's the deal with Riis not supporting Voigt? he just missed the cut off by less than a minute, Riis should have assigned someone to pace Voigt in! Now CSC is down another rider, this is only going to hurt them.

He was going to assign David Zabrinske.

He was going to assign David Zabrinske.
:lol:

He was going to assign David Zabrinske.

Everyone's assigned to making sure the invisibility cloak stays on Basso

I'm sure he would. Thanks for the information, I'm not sure what I would have done without it.

13:37 - Beltran Abandons

Manuel Beltran crashed on the first climb of the stage. The Spanish rider who is a key ’domestique’ for the Discovery Channel team has just abandoned because of the injuries he sustained in the fall. There are 164 riders still in the 92nd Tour.

This is a bit of a hitch in the Disco machine... I'm sure Lance won't be happy about this!

Also, Boonen is no longer in the race, so I think the green is wide open again!

That stinks that Boonen had to abandon. I guess that the green jersey has opened up again to a competition.

They didn't MAKE Hushovd wear the Green Jersey?

I don't really want to see him win either. Not sure he would really care enough about any of us here to gesture to us though. But I guess if you feel the need ...
f

Beltran Abandons...Not good. He was a key pace maker on the Disco train. He was suffering from a bit of tendenitous in his knee and was the first to pull offf the train yesterday. So not as big of a hit as if he was 100% healthy.

Boonen abandons as well?? What happened? Looks like Robbie Mcewan and his early stage DQ has come back to life.

ps. That DQ was bs.

Boonen abandons as well?? What happened?

Swollen knee after a crash yesterday.
details here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/4681965.stm)

As it's Bastille Day, I'll take a shot and call it a win for Laurent Brochard or David Moncoutie.

Good call. I had Moncoutie in the final top 10 which was perhaps a bad call. He's no three week racer but he's having a good year.

IMO one of the beautiful things of pro cycling and the Tour de France. A lone rider coming into town for a stage win, surrounded by screaming spectators. Particularily a French rider on Bastille Day.

Stage 12:

1. David Moncoutie (France) COF - 187km in 4h20’06" (43.137km/h)
2. Sandy Casar (France) FDJ at 57"
3. Angel Vicioso (Spain) LSW at 57"
4. Patrice Halgand (France) C.A at 57"
5. Jose Luis Arrieta (Spain) IBA at 57"
6. Franco Pellizotti (Italy) LIQ at 57"
7. Axel Merckx (Belgium) DVL at 57"
8. Juan Manuel Garate (Spain) SDV at 57"
9. Thor Hushovd (Norway) C.A at 3’15"
10. Stuart O’Grady (Australia) COF at 3’15"

As it's Bastille Day, I'll take a shot and call it a win for Laurent Brochard or David Moncoutie.

what a great educated guess!! i always remember how special it is in france for a frenchman to win on bastille day. it is the only day of the year i root for anything or anyone french.

The GC contenders cruise in seven minutes after some French non-contenders. It looks as if Bastille Day was an unofficial "rest day" for the contenders. I guess after two days of brutal riding, the contenders deserved a day of relaxation.

And, the contenders are gonna relax again on Friday. Let the sprinters do their thing. Because on Saturday and Sunday, two stages of brutal climbing will test the top contenders to the limit.

The list of the "Top Five" contenders is going to look quite different on Sunday night than it does today. These two mountain stages are as challenging as Stage 15, in 1998, where Ullrich lost almost nine minutes to Pantani...one or more contenders will be non-contenders on Sunday night.

Shut up, Alan. I can't wait for the Tour to be over and you disappear for another year. You're pathetic and uneducated about cycling.

Carry on...

I don't think Alan is so off the mark.

"had 80 centiltres of blood drawn from his knee on Thursday morning.

"That's like two cans of coke," he added."
yikes :eek:

Shut up, Alan. I can't wait for the Tour to be over and you disappear for another year. You're pathetic and uneducated about cycling.

Carry on...

Actually, he does post during the whole year.

Steel is REAL!!!!!

Actually, he does post during the whole year.

About what? How classics riders are second rate riders? Or how Boonen sucks 'cause he'll never win the TDF?

ok, this is getting out of hand.
While I appreciate that we are all passionate about
racing, and we all have our personal favourites
lets keep it civil.

Marty

Sorry :(

I don't think Alan is so off the mark.
Keeping it civil, it's not so much that he's wrong about the way the GC riders treated the stage, it's moreso about his continued blatant disrespect for anyone who isn't a top GC guy.

As it's Bastille Day
They have not really called it that for quite a while. It is either 14 juillet or La fête nationale.

I might get flamed for this, but today was a pretty boring stage. I don't hate the French or anything like that, but a Frenchman winning on Bastille Day doesn't touch my cold American heart.

I was hoping the small hills would bring attacks from someone like Vino in a replay of that Cat 2 climb a few days ago. Maybe it's better in the end that Vino got a "rest" day to recover from yesterday's effort. Then again, I don't see Vino making up time when the big hills come in a few days, so maybe it's time to give up hope for Vino's chances barring a crash or some kind of incident.

It was sad to see that Boonen had to abandon. He's one of my favorites, and it looked like the race for the green jersey was starting to get closer. Crashing 5 times- bad luck or bad riding? I think I only saw one of those on TV.

Crashing 5 times- bad luck or bad riding? I think I only saw one of those on TV.

Bad luck. The first crash was a few days back when some riders went down on a railroad crossing. The second time was yesterday.

Hmm...He only crashed twice? Has someone else crashed 5 times, or am I just plain going crazy?

I'm not sure where the 5 came from.

3 crashes according to Thor.

About what? How classics riders are second rate riders? Or how Boonen sucks 'cause he'll never win the TDF?

I NEVER said either of those things. What I said was: there are differences in the goals and capabilites of the guys who came to the Tour to "cherry pick" a couple of the easy stages (before quitting when the Tour gets hard) and the guys came to the Tour with the goal of wearing yellow in Paris.

For a week, folks were posting to suggest Zabriskie could win the Tour. Then came the posts suggesting that Boonen could win the Tour. I simply pointed out that there is a VAST difference between a guy who excels only at time trials, or only at sprints, or only at one day races, and the guys who can do all of those things, PLUS win a three week race that features brutal mountain stages.

Fans ought to admire the gifts of the great sprinters, great time trials riders, and a great one day "classics" riders. But, having just one of those gifts is never enough to win the Tour. The riders who win the Tour de France generally are strong in the time trial, strong in the mountains, and have the astonishing ability to remain strong throughout three weeks of racing.

But, now the REAL Tour has started. Saturday and Sunday are gonna be a war between the riders who really DO have a chance to be in the yellow jersey in Paris.

For a week, folks were posting to suggest Zabriskie could win the Tour.

Could you refer me to a quote where someone suggested that Zabriskie could win the Tour? Thx.

I also said that Zabriskie nor Boonen were likely to quit before getting through the mountains.

Neither of them quit; they were both injured in crashes. If Lance is injured and is unable to continue, are you going to accuse him of quitting?

Neither of them quit; they were both injured in crashes. If Lance is injured and is unable to continue, are you going to accuse him of quitting?

It is traditional for sprinters to quit the Tour "due to injuries" when they drop to about 150th place in the GC. Cipollini raised the "win and quit" to an art. A sprinter usually does not quit the Tour while heading to a hospital, or while being put in an ambulance. Sprinters typically quit while pedaling slowly up a mountain, trailing far behind even the slowest riders in the peloton. They quit when they can't make the daily time cut.

Without a doubt, their injuries are real and painful. But, the recent history of the Tour has shown that injured sprinters will stay on their bikes when they are winning, and they quit when the race becomes brutally hard in the mountains.

The greatest GC riders in Tour history have sustained terrible injuries, and have gotten back on their bikes. If they quit, they quit because they are headed to the hospital, or because medical personnel have dragged them off the bike.

Tyler Hamilton showed how the great GC riders respond to an injury. With a broken collarbone, he got back on the bike, and won a stage. Merckx finished the Tour one year with his jaw wired shut, drinking a liquid diet through a straw. And, this year, Ullrich has already suffered through two brutal crashes, and got back on his bike. Ullrich may not win the Tour, but he seems determined to finish it.

To compare the "five stages and quit" riders such as Cippollini to men such as Coppi, Bobet, Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, and Armstrong is an insult to the towering accomplishments of those riders who ride hurt, and ride sick, and don't know how or when to quit.

It was Tom Simpson who exemplified the courage of the great Tour riders who refuse to quit, ever, for any reason. As he lay dying on the slopes of Mount Ventoux, his last words were "put me back on my bike".

And, yes, Tom Simpson was taking "pills" on the mountain stages, as did the majority of riders in his era. Taking pills was not right, nor smart. Simpson did not die from the pills. He died from a combination of heat stroke and heart failure, caused by riding too hard and too fast for too long through intense heat on a brutal clilmb. Whatever Tom's faults may have been, a lack of courage was not among them.

Alan,

Both Zabriskie and Boonen were involved in heavy crashes. DZ at the time
trial and Boonen's first on the railroad crossing in Germany.
Beltran "crashed" and abandoned today he had a concussion and didn't quite
know where he was.
I personally applaud the classics riders and sprinters as well as the
GC guys. As for sprinters, it's usually a fight to paris for the green.
Cipo was the exception not the rule.
As for Tom Simpson, he may have been Britians greatest cyclist,
but laying on road on Mt Ventoux, dying due to Amphetamins induced
heart failure isn't brave, its just stupid (ok I've got the nomex on).

Marty

It is traditional for sprinters to quit the Tour "due to injuries" when they drop to about 150th place in the GC.

So you are insinuating that Zabriskie and Boonen faked their crashes to get out of completing the TDF "due to injuries"??? Wow. Those crashes were shown on international tv. How did they fake them?

And last year Robbie was in a well documented crash in which he injured his knee and was hobbled for much of the race but finished in Paris to win the Green Jersey. Do you think he faked that crash, and if he did, why didn't he drop out?

Since you are accusing them of quitting when they were injured, once again, if Lance gets injured and has to stop racing, are you going to accuse him of quitting?

Alan of course took it a little to far but yes, a rider that "Abandons" the race has quit.

DZ was injured and felt he was unable to continue so he abandoned the race.
Boonen did not start todays stage due to pain in his knee from his crash, thus he abandoned the race.

Jens Voigt on the other hand did not quit, he got pulled.
Triki Beltran was told by the doctor not to continue.

I am not saying one is tougher than the others, or any of them are weak, those are just the facts(as I have seen them reported)

This particular Bastille day was boring.
It was almost like a well orchestrated play on wheels. Mancotie's desperate dash for the line over the last 20K's didn't look like an especially hard effort relative to Vino's solo effort yesterday or the combo of Voigt/Moreau on stage 9. Furthermore, Merckx et al appeared to be soft pedalling the entire chase. Woe to the man that upstages a Frenchman on Bastille day.

Boring!!

Mark

It is traditional for sprinters to quit the Tour "due to injuries" when they drop to about 150th place in the GC. Cipollini raised the "win and quit" to an art.

BS. You have isolated one sprinter and used that example to generalise about all of them.

so has a Bastille Day course ever been a huge mountain route or do the TDF management create a special "French" specialty route each year that will encourage Frenchmen to win? Just curious. Missed most of today's broadcast. Bummer.

They have not really called it that for quite a while. It is either 14 juillet or La fête nationale.

I'll defer to your familiarity with the French culture on the nomenclature.
When & why was there a change?

We still refer to it this way on this side of the pond, even French organizaitons.


Astute call and rationale anyway by maalea. 15 times since WWII, frenchmen have won on the 14 juillet stage stage.