Road Bike Racing - Ontario crit report and a speed question...

All right I generally would not report on this race but it left me with an interesting question...

First the race... 1.2 mile grand prix 7 turn course, very very fast and windy, 2 mild grades, but basically flat and very very technical. Category 4/5 race but you could probably call it straight 4, there was about 6 cat 5 of about 80 racers... in the past this has been a very very fast race, and this late in the season where people are peaking it is unbelievably fast...

I felt like crap all morning, my dad bought double cheeseburgers from McD's and I got sick from them (I never eat McD's). I got to the line after battling 7.8 mile ride in the wind I felt like throwing up. My legs were still adapting to a new saddle position and pedals and I was worried about clipping in. By moving the saddle up my quads are getting over used for now and it has been very tough. Plus I have not trained as much as I would like this week which is my fault... but we had a race to run.

Race was on and I clip in fine ( :) ) and we were off, going nearly 26 MPH in the first corner. By the third lap we were hitting 31 MPH in the back stretch, just a little fast for me right now, then slow to about 20 for the corner (stupidly, some teams idea of strategy) and back to 28 - 30 MPH... :eek: I hung in for almost 5 laps, going anaerobic from the speed I though I could recover for about 2 seconds and I went slightly off the back...

For 2 laps I chased at nearly 26 MPH but literally blew up, i.e. could not go more than about 13 MPH... and after 9 laps I abandoned, about 22 minutes or so in, it was just a matter of time. The way back home was fun though, with a tailwind and drafting a semi I was doing 35 MPH+ :D

The question is, in this crit I was seeing speeds of 31+ MPH in the straights, between high 26's and low 27's MPH in a "cat 5" crit. What is the fastest that you have seen in a 4 or 5 race? I am not asking for a "usual" average, but what is the fastest you have seen.

BTW I am almost there, soon I will be... another 6 weeks or so until I get another shot. Also the first time I did this crit I was blown off the back in the first lap when the pack hit 28 MPH... so I am doing quite good I think :D

The question is, in this crit I was seeing speeds of 31+ MPH in the straights, between high 26's and low 27's MPH in a "cat 5" crit. What is the fastest that you have seen in a 4 or 5 race? I am not asking for a "usual" average, but what is the fastest you have seen.


i got up to between 53-55mph on a downhill section in one road race. on flats I have been in a group where it was up to 40mph with a tail wind. with no wind probably around 35-36 is the fastest on the flat.
all in cat4/5 races

Quick question,

Why is it that all your race reports either start or end with an excuse?

Wrong gearing, ate McD's, boss kept me at work, too hot, etc. etc.

Just wondering....

What may sound like an excuse is more of an an analysis of what went wrong or right. Did you read penguins race report, he had an excuse there also, he did not listen to the officials. When you go and tear apart the race, you look for things that went wrong or right, but it is usually the things that went wrong that gets focused on.

It seems like the majority of the race reports that the person did not win have some sort of excuse, anything from I went to hard and blew up, I crashed, I did not eat enough, etc etc. That is how we all learn, expecially in racing.

I did not mention everything that went right at the race did I... well

1. I rode in my first "cat 4" race, and hung in the pack for rearly 1/3rd of the race.
2. I lasted 75% longer than I did last time in this race format, at higher speeds.
3. I got good experience racing in a fast moving peloton.
4. I experienced riding to my first "30+ MPH) race.
5. I did better than I would have expected to do in this fast of a race.

etc.

As I said, I do not report on every race that I do, and I do not tell everything that happens, all the emotion, etc. I could write the post limit in words and just begin to describe the feelings of the race. Maybe I should just post the first and last race journal section here and you can read what a difference 4 months has made. I can not believe I am at this point in racing...

And that is all that matters...

I actually enjoy reading about his race reports. It makes me feel like I'm not the only one who is new to racing and not absolutely amazing like most people make you feel. I can relate to them pretty easy. No matter how well I do in a race or even a prime in a group ride, I always contemplate how I could have done better.

As for speeds, I'm going to attempt my first crit tomorrow. Supposedly it's a good starter crit as there is no curves. If I can make it to it I'll let you know.

I'm going to attempt my first crit tomorrow. Supposedly it's a good starter crit as there is no curves.

hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean by a crit not having any curves? The very nature of a crit is a closed loop, under a mile in length. How do you get a loop without any curves?

hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean by a crit not having any curves? The very nature of a crit is a closed loop, under a mile in length. How do you get a loop without any curves?

In NC, we have a race on an oval stock car track. No corners, but it does have turns. It's lots of fun!

Cole

hmmm, I'm not sure what you mean by a crit not having any curves? The very nature of a crit is a closed loop, under a mile in length. How do you get a loop without any curves?

That is what I was thinking... crit with no corners... even a football shaped course has 2 corners. :(

Why did you change your saddle position mid-season?

as far as speed... i rode an avg speed of 32.1 mph once in a cat4 crit for 40 minutes... barely cracked the top-30. on the other hand, i rode at a 23 mph average once and won. crits are a strange.

The seat was set back so much that I was having a few issues, i.e knee problems, and I was loosing significant power on the power tests, so we moved it up and my power increased so we left it there...

32.1 MPH average :eek: ! Crits are definitly strange for sure, one crit I was at 22 MPH average and got in the top 30 and ones like ontario I was at 27 MPH and I could not hang on...

32.1 MPH average :eek: ! Crits are definitly strange for sure, one crit I was at 22 MPH average and got in the top 30 and ones like ontario I was at 27 MPH and I could not hang on...

Wow, that's crazy! I never would have figured on that one!

Cole

The seat was set back so much that I was having a few issues, i.e knee problems, and I was loosing significant power on the power tests, so we moved it up and my power increased so we left it there...

cool. i was curious, as i had heard a while back that you shouldn't make any changes to the dimensions of your bike mid-season. not to say that you can't, though ;)

cool. i was curious, as i had heard a while back that you shouldn't make any changes to the dimensions of your bike mid-season. not to say that you can't, though ;)

I am just paying the price right now, but soon I will get stronger in the new posistion...

The seat was set back so much that I was having a few issues, i.e knee problems, and I was loosing significant power on the power tests, so we moved it up and my power increased so we left it there...

32.1 MPH average :eek: ! Crits are definitly strange for sure, one crit I was at 22 MPH average and got in the top 30 and ones like ontario I was at 27 MPH and I could not hang on...

How are you testing your power?

I ment curbs, not curves. Meaning I won't have to deal with that part. Sorry for the confusion!

How are you testing your power?

Bike shops computrainer

58, after reading a number of your posts and with due respect, I'd say you're a prime candidate for some non-virtual coaching. A website only helps so much. A good coach would have not cut you once quarter pound of slack for that burger. You're over 200lbs, wanting to lose weight to climb better, hang in a fast crit, etc... Sounds like you have the desire, but not the will power. A coach...a tough no B.S. coach will solve a number of your questions and get you the most bang for your hard earned money...much more so than the newest latest bike bling bits. Good luck and have fun! Set goals and get there.

(position: any changes at all should take place at about 2mm per week to avoid injury, and don't switch more than one position viariable at a time...you're going to really injure yourself if you keep it up.)

^^^ Agreed 100%... and after this season that is what I am going to do. I have already started looking around, talking with people. If you do not know I have a few specific challenges on the bike... I need to develop more power and that can only come from climbing more and most importantly a long off season in the gym. The weight is coming off, 200 is a good goal for me weight wise.

I want to start doing road races around here and the 5 -6 they have per year all involve climbing, that is why I am conserned with that in particular. I have increase my percieved power substantially in the last few weeks since I went of HRT, and I think that it will just continue to improve.

I have goals and the motivation to complete them. The only way to complete them though is for me to do the work... and I am not afraid of that. Only next season will tell though, right now I am just trying to get as much experience as possible.

^^^ Agreed 100%... and after this season that is what I am going to do. I have already started looking around, talking with people. If you do not know I have a few specific challenges on the bike... I need to develop more power and that can only come from climbing more and most importantly a long off season in the gym. The weight is coming off, 200 is a good goal for me weight wise.

I want to start doing road races around here and the 5 -6 they have per year all involve climbing, that is why I am conserned with that in particular. I have increase my percieved power substantially in the last few weeks since I went of HRT, and I think that it will just continue to improve.

I have goals and the motivation to complete them. The only way to complete them though is for me to do the work... and I am not afraid of that. Only next season will tell though, right now I am just trying to get as much experience as possible.

Thanks for the report, which I personally enjoy as it reflects enthusiasm for the sport. Keep writing them as some who are afraid to start their own threads could learn from yours.
Do you have a training plan for winter? I'm gonna get a trainer and probably do legwork on the Bowflex.

Keep up the reports.
Remember, guys like me can only READ about what it's like out there.

FYI--after watching Superweek races in this area ll week long I continue to stare in disbelief at how FAST these guys are, and how dangerous it is out there.

FYI II--after riding today I actually got on a scale for the first time in a while. I love summer. I eat carbs, yet I lose weight. 188. First time that low in a long time. Started cycling at 228.

Well right now I am looking for a coach (as said above) to help in the development of my training plan. In Socal we can ride about 350 days a year, and with my new job I am planning to increase my training base miles significantly. I am shooting for a 4 week schedule of something like the following...

Week one - three - 200 miles, 225 miles and 250 miles or base milage, and 150 miles on week four (recovery week). I am hoping for 2k to 2.5k miles in the 3 month base period. As soon as my last race in september I am going to start working out 3 days per week upper and lower body. I am hoping to double or triple my raw strength over the base period which from where I am in realistic.

Assuming that happens I should be ready and strong to attack cat 4 in February. Where I am now I should be quite ready for the catagory (the above race is basically a cat 4 race). My goal for the season to to earn a cat 3 upgrade by the end of the season by points. I am planning on 3 stage races throughout the year also. Should be a good season.

Weight wise I would like to be 195 - 200 for my first stage race in late February, that is 4.5 months of base and build training. Personally I would like to see 70 mile training rides as a norm by the end of base 3, currently my average base ride is 45 - 50 miles. How to do this? A coach will hopefully help here.

Yep, you need a coach. Don't wait, get one to straighten out poor habits/tactics/techniques/diet/ point you in the right direction, etc...NOW! There's much more to it than raw mileage, and many different ways/goals for weight training. Triple your raw strength? At 220, are you particularly weak, or are you not concerned with adding muscle bulk? All your plans are fine for somebody's first season on a bike, or someone getting back into the sport, but for a second full season, they're much too general. You might want to pick up a fixed gear and ride track over the winter as well.

Yep, you need a coach. Don't wait, get one to straighten out poor habits/tactics/techniques/diet/ point you in the right direction, etc...NOW! There's much more to it than raw mileage, and many different ways/goals for weight training. Triple your raw strength? At 220, are you particularly weak, or are you not concerned with adding muscle bulk? All your plans are fine for somebody's first season on a bike, or someone getting back into the sport, but for a second full season, they're much too general. You might want to pick up a fixed gear and ride track over the winter as well.

These are just general plans like you said, not specific.

BTW I am very very weak due to factors that were formerly beyond my control. How weak? Well leg press in the 160 pound range, bench in the 50 - 60 pound range, etc. That is exactly why I need a coach for direction, like I said above. I know winter work is not all about raw mileage, expecially during the later part of the year. A single speed is a great idea if I can swing it, depending on how things go.

I have been in the gym before, but I was never able to build muscle mass. My goals are to be able by the end of next base, early build to be able to leg press, 300 and maybe 400 pounds, bench in the 130 - 140 range, etc. Since I have not been to the gym for over 3 months I have no idea where I am at now though...

These are just general plans like you said, not specific.

BTW I am very very weak due to factors that were formerly beyond my control. How weak? Well leg press in the 160 pound range, bench in the 50 - 60 pound range, etc. That is exactly why I need a coach for direction, like I said above. I know winter work is not all about raw mileage, expecially during the later part of the year. A single speed is a great idea if I can swing it, depending on how things go.

I have been in the gym before, but I was never able to build muscle mass. My goals are to be able by the end of next base, early build to be able to leg press, 300 and maybe 400 pounds, bench in the 130 - 140 range, etc. Since I have not been to the gym for over 3 months I have no idea where I am at now though...


Good idea.

Go build up your upper body in the gym. That will REALLY help your climbing. Yhat is why all the pro riders that you see are so buff. They know that without all that useless mass that they will never be a good rider.

Good idea.

Go build up your upper body in the gym. That will REALLY help your climbing. Yhat is why all the pro riders that you see are so buff. They know that without all that useless mass that they will never be a good rider.

I've never understood this reasoning. What, stay thin for all the Apine passes that a Cat 4 rides in the States? Most of Domestic Amateur racing is Criterium or Circuit (esp in lower categories). It's a totally different sport and Upper body strength will serve you well.

Do not train for the TDF then ride a local Crit.