Classic & Vintage - pinarello questions

You guys probably think I've been up here in the backwoods working on my still or something, but I've been busy searching the woods for a new project, and I found one. A Pinarello, late 80's, supposed to be SL (no decals at all), but I think that it would be a Treviso, if properly represented to me.

Once, in a fit of complete foolishness, I sold my dura ace Montello and have pined for it ever since, so now I have an opportunity to make things better in my garage. A couple of questions: what is the appropriate group for a Treviso (the Montello was a dura ace bike, but I never felt right about that); and, is there a way that I can tell whether the bike is truly built with SL? I have an accurate scale if that'd help...

Thanks in advance for yer esteemed opinions - the mash is still cookin', btw...

Time for some images. I have a Montello with original Treviso decals, only the guy in the decal room knows for sure. Tubing guage is often dependent on frame size, a scale will only be of limited use as there are too many variables, BB shell weight, frame size. Some frames had mixed guages. It is what it is.

Purchased mine essentially as a NOS bike, the wear parts and anno rims looked as never used. It now sits as a frame set, I purchased it for use to pull a trailer due to the chrome stays, but the chainstays were too short, heel would catch. It had pantoed Campagnolo SR reduced & 3ttt.

What length stem do you require?

be seeing you

I have a Montello with original Treviso decals, only the guy in the decal room knows for sure.

I thought the Montello came with SLX tubing and the Treviso with SL, which should make it really to tell which model you have, by looking in the bottom braket and checking the tube ends for the SLX's spiral ridges.



what is the appropriate group for a Treviso (the Montello was a dura ace bike, but I never felt right about that); and, is there a way that I can tell whether the bike is truly built with SL? .

I have some Pinarello specs from the late 1980s. Even as late as 1989, it was listed with SL. Through 1987 it had a Campagnolo SR group. For 1988 & 1989 it is listed with Chorus.

some images. I don't have the frame yet, but this may provide enough info to work with. The blue paint is model paint, camoflaging the chrome, which the guy says is in excellent shape.

My father would have called that paint-itus, guy could not stop with the fork crown had to hit the top eyes as well. Sould remove with some careful work. Perhaps that handiwork made the frame more reasonable in price, a good thing. Typical fragile Pinarello decals, they do show up from time to time. It will be interesting to see what the top tube length is, mine is too short for my taste.

It should tell you, "use only Campagnolo", isn't it stamped into the BB? wink, wink, nudge nudge...

The paint is coming off. Goof-off and elbow grease. It is three part: chrome, white base coat, and transparent blue overcoat. The white is arranged to provide a little trim line where the paint ends and the chrome starts, and that little white line is suffering a little. The guy also painted the left rear chainstay. Completely. I haven't started on that yet, but the rest of the chrome is okay. I'll get frame measurements after work.

It looks like '91' is worked into the serial number, so that'd probably be Chorus, no?

I use 110-120 stem length - do you have one for sale? btw, I bought a 145 Cinelli recently, just because I haven't ever seen one that long. I won't have it until the end of the month, though. If it is in any kind of condition you could xtra size that pinarello of yours...

Looks like a 1985 Record frame after looking at the 1985 Pinarello catalog from this website: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/
The main difference I can see between the Record and Treviso is the bottom bracket. You definately have the Record bottom bracket shell and the frame also came in blue.

Looks like a 1985 Record frame after looking at the 1985 Pinarello catalog from this website: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/
The main difference I can see between the Record and Treviso is the bottom bracket. You definately have the Record bottom bracket shell and the frame also came in blue.

you know, I looked at that and didn't pay enough attention. I think you are right, though. The fixtures are a very near match. '85 would be super record, and I happen to have a group that'll go right on it. anyone have a source for the stickers?

Try Kool Bikes, $55 for seat and down tube decals
http://www.koolbikes.com/
Heres a recent pick of my '89 Montello project. Not 100% complete yet, realized I need a shorter stem. Bought the frame from a co-worker for fifty bucks in the condition you see in the frame only pic. Im undecided whether I want to replace decals or leave the well worn "patina" look.

I had forgotten about the top tube cable routing. Mine was an 87, although very nearly the same as yours. I still miss that sweet springy ride. A truly excellent ride. Does this have the little wings reinforcing the bottom bracket shell/chainstay junction?

Yep!

It looks like '91' is worked into the serial number, so that'd probably be Chorus, no?

No, unfortunately in 1991, the Treviso came equipped with Ultegra. However, the "91" in the serial may just be a co-incidence and so many of these were sold as bare frames that just about any mid to high level components would not be out of place.

I am gonna pretend that the frame is an '85 record. Since I'm putting the decals on'er, I can probably call it whatever; but old yeller has me convinced that is what it is. EE 491 is the serial number, so the 91 is probably coincidental...I got all of the model paint off and did a first coat touch up. I'll post some progress pics manana...

Unfortunately my pinarello 3ttt stem is 9cm.

Luker, what are you using for the blue touch up paint? I need some for mine and haven't found a close enough match.

white for the undercoat. Testors 1639, Sapphire Blue Metalflake, for the top coat. I spray some into a cap, and use a fine brush to apply. The paint changes color depending on the level of mixing. If you let it set in the cap without stirring it gets too dark, pretty fast. But twirling it with the brush brings up the metalflake and a pretty good match. The paint is durable once dry (takes a couple of days to get all of the way dry. I also found that that medium blue that was all over the bike makes a good undercoat for larger areas. Serendipity - I wouldn't have tried it but it was already all over the chipped dropouts. I repainted over the old paint on the dropouts and I can't tell where the old stuff ends and the new stuff starts.

Thanks, I'll check into Testors 1639. Hope the local Walmart has that color. We dont have too many places that carry model supplies where I live.

Slightly off topic: Does anyone have a full chrome Pinarello fork with at least a 6 3/8" steerer they want to sell? The idiot kid at the bike shop clamped the fork blade in a vise when I asked them to add a quarter inch of threads and put a nice dent in it. The shop owner said he'd replace it if I found another at a reasonable price. Ebay has been been pretty dried up on Chrome Pinarello forks lately.

I got the Saphire Blue paint. It is a very good match! Thanks for the info.

haven't got a fork for you either. But I'm gonna post some pre-sticker pictures tomorrow, if I can get 'em taken in the sunshine. I think Testors did a pretty good job...

Like I said (but my schedule at home is about a mirror of work right now) I am posting some pre-sticker pictures of the Pinarello Record...OMAS from another thread - I used my ratholed OMAS stuff on this frame.

Looks great! Nice job on cleaning off the ugly blue paint and all the touch-up work. I didnt expect it to turn out that well. You must post more pics when you get the decals on it. Are you getting the one's from Kool Bikes or did you find another source?

I found some originals, but...they want $100 for 'em so I'm agonizing at this time. It'll be better after I pay my credit card bill.

I agonized. and I sprang. This is the result. A footnote in biking history, btw. These decals were NOS replacements from the correct era. They were sticky pigment (no media that I can tell) printed in reverse on slick plastic backing. They are pressure sensitive, and go on really thin - without a bonding cover. They were a real pain in the b**t - like decals, you really only get one shot, but you cannot see what you are doing because of the backing paper. I got the left side downtube twisted a little (just bothers anal people like me, I think). And without a lot of pressure applied, they tend to lift in some places (the "r" in Treviso on the downtube got squashed a little).

They look really fragile (and judging from the historical sampling that I've seen, are). I need opinions on clear coat. How can I clear the decals without clearing the whole frame? Is it possible or will the sheen be wildly different? Never tried this...

Back to Testors...

When I applied repop decals to a Basso build I did awhile ago I was in the same situation. I had painted the bike using a friends pro stuff and had no expectations of decalling it. A month or 2 later eBay and a some $ sent some decals my way. I felt I had inconvenienced my friend enough so I bought Testors semi-gloss (comes in aerosol cans, they also make a dull-coat for military finishes, don't buy that!). I sprayed over one of the less conspicuous decals and then the rest. I was happy then and 4 years later remain happy. The clear gives the decals added protection and merges into the glossy blue paint imperceptibly.

The caveat is that you've got thin NOS Italian decals whereas mine are modern adhesive backed repops so I offer no guarantees.


:beer:

I'll do a little testing before application on the real thing. btw, what are repops?

Slang term for "reproductions" is all. Every now and then on eBay people sell a card of classic decals including Campy, Reynolds 531 and Columbus as well as old logo Mavic, Detto Pietro, etc. I picked one up for the Campy and Columbus and had some Basso decals made.

As opposed to the old water-slide these ar adhesive backed "stickers" but are nicely done.


:beer:

So I'm putting it together. I have a pair of the proper vintage campy downtube shifters. They don't work! I finally gave up and put on a pair of simplex retrofrictions, which of course work much better and should be standard issue with any vintage campy grouppo, but anyway, what am I doing wrong?

The configuration that I think I should be using:

Aluminum lever stop. Flat plastic washer. Lever. Thin keyed washer. Concave keyed top cover thingie - sez patent camp...yattayatta. Wingnut deal.

Am I missing anything? Do I have too much in there?

Some pictures of the "almost complete" bicycle. Rode it today and it worked great! I still would like to do a few cosmetic things (like the panto'ed stem and maybe a chainring...) but I am really impressed so far. The bike weighs 20.1 lb on the super-secret bicycle laboratory scale, with sewups and that cushy Rolls saddle.

So I'm putting it together. I have a pair of the proper vintage campy downtube shifters. They don't work! I finally gave up and put on a pair of simplex retrofrictions, which of course work much better and should be standard issue with any vintage campy grouppo, but anyway, what am I doing wrong?
The configuration that I think I should be using:
Aluminum lever stop. Flat plastic washer. Lever. Thin keyed washer. Concave keyed top cover thingie - sez patent camp...yattayatta. Wingnut deal.
Am I missing anything? Do I have too much in there?

Thatz it, Why don;t they work? More specifics about what happening.

Bike looks great, and even more important, it will be a sweet ride.

What are you doing for pedals?

Is this gonna be a garage queen or a daily/frequent rider?

um, it seems like the shifter boss is too short; they will not tighten to the point of friction.

I put speedplays on it. They are the only pedals that my knees will tolerate. This pair is one of the very first ones, from about the right vintage. I've had 'em for years, got them from a friend who won them in a race and couldn't stand them. They were my first pair.

All of my bikes are riders. The ones that turn into garage queens get sold. Although it has been so hot and dusty lately that the mountain bikes aren't getting any use.

The bike looks great. I've enjoyed watching this frame go from its auction on ebay to its final build. The decals turned out great so the goofs you mentioned must not be too obvious. Now I want to replace the decals on my Montello. Can't help you on the shifters, my Nuovo Record shifters fit just fine. Did you put the thin washer between the outer cone shaped/recessed top cover and the "wing nut" screw? Maybe the screw is bottoming out? Sounds like we're lusting for the same panto'ed parts on ebay as well. Lost an auction for a nice pantographed stem recently by $1.00 because I didnt watch the end of auction. My bike is complete but Im not satisfied with the Cinelli Champion Del Mondo bars. I just dont like the deep drop. Looking for some 44-46 wide Giro d'Italia bars without cable grooves. Unfortunately I am unable to test ride my bike since I suffered a tibial plateau fracture in March. Im still on crutches and can only rotate the pedals back and forth from the 11:00 to 4:00. Physical therapy is getting my motion back though.

Here's my latest pics...

um, it seems like the shifter boss is too short; they will not tighten to the point of friction.

I put speedplays on it. They are the only pedals that my knees will tolerate. This pair is one of the very first ones, from about the right vintage. I've had 'em for years, got them from a friend who won them in a race and couldn't stand them. They were my first pair.

All of my bikes are riders. The ones that turn into garage queens get sold. Although it has been so hot and dusty lately that the mountain bikes aren't getting any use.

I'll pull my shifters off (come to think of it, they are off my C-Super already...) and measure the bosses, so you have something to compare. Doesn't seem right that the boss would be too short. Is it possible that the plastic washer might be too thick (not the stock washer)?
need to find my calipers... grumble...

Oh, thought you might be puttin on a set of 'vintage' quill road with clips.
Speedplay - nice stuff

After being on this forum for a month+ or so, I'm feelin real guilty about letting all my bikes become such mongrels. Wore out stuff and just replaced that with any old good stuff, based on what I thought would work best for me at the time.
The bikes are so confusing now that I'm never sure if I should stop for Pizza, Sushi or Gorp!

:rolleyes:

My originals are just that way - hotrodded. Something happened to my brain recently, and I got the urge to put a few back together just the way they left the factory. dunno why. must be an age-related deal.

I have a set of superleggeris and some kangaroo-skin detto's from the late pleistocene when I was a real wool-wearing racerboy... tried to ride with 'em recently. Like clamping my legs in an iron maiden.

Very nice, makes me think about rebuilding the frame I have, but it is not high enough on the project list and when set up I really could use more set tube set back and the top tube is too short.

be seeing you

When's the mash ready? Bike party at Lurker's house once the Pin is done...
" I have a pair of the proper vintage campy downtube shifters. They don't work! I finally gave up and put on a pair of simplex retrofrictions,"
Willey E. Coyote, you are a genius! I am, not surprisingly, in full concurence with you on this sentiment.
"After being on this forum for a month+ or so, I'm feelin real guilty about letting all my bikes become such mongrels."
Nothing like a Frankenbike... I've got a Gitane up for a rebuild sure to offend all purists anywhere... I say enjoy them and ride them!

Campagnolo retrofriction shifters were mounted on my Pinarello, was given the original Record pantoed shifters with it, there were a small number of retrofriction "old Look" Camapgnolo shifters around, kind of look clunky compared to the record C units... so one does not need to go to the French to have retrofriction.

. ...Lost an auction for a nice pantographed stem recently by $1.00 because I didnt watch the end of auction...Im still on crutches and can only rotate the pedals back and forth from the 11:00 to 4:00. Physical therapy is getting my motion back though...

Here's my latest pics...

The bike's looking great! What size stem are you looking for? I may have an extra in a week or so...I think that it'll be 110. If that'd work I'll let you have it for what I have into it.

How the heck did you do that to your leg?

I have a set of superleggeris and some kangaroo-skin detto's from the late pleistocene when I was a real wool-wearing racerboy... tried to ride with 'em recently. Like clamping my legs in an iron maiden.

with the wooden insoles? those things gave me bone spurs. was the best power transmission yo could find though.
Man...
just got a pair of Pearl Izumis with the carbon sole - light years different, and soooo comfortable. some things have gotten better.

hey shifter boss dims - measuring the entire boss, including the square base that holds the shifter stop, from the high point of the downtube (which would be center line with the center of the boss)
overall length is 12.5 mm, square boss base is 2.5 mm thick/long, the round shifter boss shaft is 10 mm, the length of the shaft that has the flat 'lands' that key into the washer and coverplate is 4.5 mm.
measurements are close, but not exact. They were done with a rule instead of my missing calipers. But good to within .5 mm, I think.
... hope this helps identifying any boss anomalies.

bosses aren't too short. the danged inside washer is too thick. I have 2 pair and they are both a couple of mm too thick.

"...Campagnolo retrofriction shifters were mounted on my Pinarello..."

Man, I'd love to have a pair. But they are too pricey for me. I watched a pair of Super LJ retrofrictions last night go over $100...I scrounged a pair out of my parts pile (never been on a bike!) last year to go on my wife's 770. I'm thinking maybe she needs more modern shifters...What was the year and model of your Pinarello?

The bike's looking great! What size stem are you looking for? I may have an extra in a week or so...I think that it'll be 110. If that'd work I'll let you have it for what I have into it.

How the heck did you do that to your leg?

Im looking for a 100mm GP panto'ed stem but dont want to pay much. The stem I was watching on ebay went for less than 20 bucks think. Dont really need another stem but the pantographed parts are pretty cool so Im always looking.

Broke my knee at work March 30th. I slipped off a 2" square railing about 6" off the floor and jambed my leg into the concrete floor. As I hit the floor, my ankle twisted to the outside locking my knee causing the fracture to my tibial plateau. Never felt pain like that before! It sounded like dry spagettii breaking. Thank goodness for workmans comp.

bosses aren't too short. the danged inside washer is too thick. I have 2 pair and they are both a couple of mm too thick.

you can always take them down to size - they should be just about flush thickness with the inside of the shifter.
could be one of those wax-on/wax-off things to do with/on a file, while watching tapes of the TDF mountain stages...
i need to find my calipers... grumble...

Im looking for a 100mm GP panto'ed stem but dont want to pay much. The stem I was watching on ebay went for less than 20 bucks think. Dont really need another stem but the pantographed parts are pretty cool so Im always looking.

Broke my knee at work March 30th. I slipped off a 2" square railing about 6" off the floor and jambed my leg into the concrete floor. As I hit the floor, my ankle twisted to the outside locking my knee causing the fracture to my tibial plateau. Never felt pain like that before! It sounded like dry spagettii breaking. Thank goodness for workmans comp.

I bought the black one with the rough finish - the guy pegged me $17.50 for shipping. The ano is gone - I was going to try to polish and fill the panto with black...let me see how it turns out.

good heck! I had the side of an excavation collapse four years ago and did a sideways slide into the hole, severing my acl. That sucked, but your injury makes mine look like a flesh wound. I suppose I was lucky, in a perverse sort of way...

you can always take them down to size - they should be just about flush thickness with the inside of the shifter.
could be one of those wax-on/wax-off things to do with/on a file, while watching tapes of the TDF mountain stages...
i need to find my calipers... grumble...

I, um, don't have a tv. Have to watch the TDF at the sportsbar. Suppose they'd let me file washers there?