adamkell

Quick question. In a radial front wheel, do you want to lace all the spokes inward? Outward? Alternating? Does it matter?

The answer must be obvious because I can't seem to find it anywhere...sheldon brown, jobst brandt....

jinx_removing

Try here:

https://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/lacingrl.htm

You can do all three and there are advantages to each one.

adamkell

that was quick.
thanks very much.

jinx_removing

No problem. I just built a wheel with the spoke heads on the inside of the flange and I personally like it better than the much preferred outside the flange method.

ImOnCrank

What's the advantage to a radially laced wheel?

riderx

You can crack the hub flange faster...and then complain on the forums about what a piece of **** the hub is.

phidauex

Less weight, more aerodynamic, laterally stronger. Of course, those reasons are small, and many consider them to be insignificant, so lets get to the REAL reason... BLING!

I've got a radial front because I see no reason not to have a cool looking front wheel. Some people don't like the look, but I do, so thats what me bike gets. The rear is 3x, like normal.

Plus, I get to tell roadies that the few grams I save on the wheel has really affected the rotational inertia of my wheels, meaning I sprint and climb much faster than before. Plus, I get more 'feedback' from the wheel, which improves my handling and allows me near-superhuman swerving abilities. And the chicks dig it. Radial yeah!

To answer the original question, I laced mine heads out for narrowness, but either option is acceptable.

peace,
sam

phidauex

I think thats more of a problem with low flange hubs, that have less material between spoke holes. I've only seen one picture of a cracked flange on a radially laced hub, but people keep bandying it around like it is proof. Hubs crack for various reasons.

Anyway, I don't mean this to become another 'radial vs tangential' thread.. Just build your wheels like you want. We are serious 'overbuilders' in this forum with rather extreme ideas about bike durability. I think most of our fixies could be raced in extreme downhill races and come out just fine. Sometimes its OK to do other things though.

peace,
sam

dustinlikewhat

raise your hand if you've contemplated drilling your spoke eyelets larger so that you could use motorcycle wheel spokes?

phidauex

*shamefully raises his hand*

I also confess to having contemplated respacing my frame to accept a motorcycle hub I found.

peace,
sam

Ken Cox

I have spent hours at the site to which jinx provided a link.
I especially like Crow's Foot Lacing, which combines radial with tangential lacing and I have thought about having a set of wheels made in that pattern.
Crow's Foot looks like it has a lot of practical advantages but I never see it anywhere.
Does anyone have any experience with Crow's Foot Lacing?

https://www.geocities.com/spokeanwheel/lacingcf.htm

jinx_removing

Not yet but talk to me in a couple of months. I've been bitten by the wheelbuilding bug something fierce and that is my next build.

jinx_removing

Funny... I see people saying this all of the time but I've never actually seen this happen in real life. Seems like one photo of a trashed Campy hub on the internet gets everyone thinking this happens all of the time. Here's one to chew on, the all-hallowed Sheldon Brown thinks they are perfectly fine for a front wheel. Here's another, I asked Tony (IRO) if he thought his hubs would hold up to radial and he said he didn't see a problem with it. Although he did suggest I go for 1X. So far they haven't cracked but I'll keep you posted.

BostonFixed

Can you build me some wheels?

bostontrevor

Someone recently posted a fine picture of a Chris King also broken at the flanges. It does happen and many hub manufacturers will not honor the warranty if the wheel is radially laced.

jinx_removing

I'm intrigued. Can you post a link?

riderx

Someone asked what the advantages of radial lacing was. My reply was a smart ass way of saying "There are no real advantages to radial lacing". Lace your wheels anyway you want, it bothers me none. I give props to those who admit they lace radially for looks, because that's what it boils down to.

jinx_removing

True, my reply came off a whole lot more smarta$$ed than I intended. I chose radial because it was my first build, combined with the fact that I think it looks pretty cool. I do have to say, it was much less intimidating to lace my first wheel radial and it gave me confidence for lacing up the back wheel 3X. That being said, I don't think I'll go that route again but, like I said before, I don't think it is as dangerous as it is made out to be.

bostontrevor

I can't locate it off-hand, but it was a lovely orange ano job. Here's one though:

https://svana.org/sjh/images/alpine05/fw1_med.jpg

On the other hand, here's one that appears to have been tangentially laced and also failed:

https://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-009/ccf4.jpg

The point is not that radial lacing guarantees that your hub will break or that tangential guarantees that it won't. Radial simply puts greater stress on your hub and increases likelihood of failure for very little in the way of measureable improvement.

BostonFixed

Bingo!




Ok, so it's not King, but rather Tune, makers of REALLY light MTB and possibly road parts.

jinx_removing

Sheesh. Radial on an MTB rear wheel. Even I'm not that stupid.

bostontrevor

On a dished wheel, the non-drive-side can be radially laced because those spokes are substantially lower tension than the drive-side where power transfer actually occurs. In theory.

edit: and BostonFixed will site the fact that he's seen some do this on track wheels to which I say...Hmm... I see.

jinx_removing

I was joking when I said that but when you really think about it your wheel is going to get its ass kicked when you hit a stump going 20mph. Drive-side or not.

I see what you are saying about road wheels though.

bostontrevor

Actually, apparently the above photo is a road wheel, according to the person who originally posted it.

croth

i love radial lacing purely for the aesthetics, especially half-radial lacing on rear wheels. when there comes a question of durability, i relate these two personal experiences:

1. suntour high-flanged track hub radially laced with double-butted spokes to a mavic cxp14, head-on high-speed (at night) collision into a barrier, enough to bend the steel fork back about 3 inches and ripple the down tube and the top tube. wheel was fine, didn't even need truing. (not me on the bike)

2. phil wood high-flange track hub radially laced with phil wood straight gauge spokes to a velocity deep-v, head-on high-speed (at night) collision into a car during an alleycat, enough to shear the carbon fork off on both side 2 inches down from the crown. wheel was fine, didn't even need truing. (me on the bike)

i'll be back with part 2, and why i won't radially lace suntours any longer......