question re: "drafting" in the mountains

[rowbeartoe]

I'm new to cycling, so bear with me...
I realize on flat stages a cyclist gains an advantage by riding behind a different rider (the first rider breaks the wind, therefore the second rider has less work to do).
But does this principle still apply when the riders are slowly going up the steep mountains? It doesn't seem that they are going fast enough for there to be a significant advantage to the trailing rider, but the TdF announcers repeatedly speak of one rider "pulling" a different rider up a mountain, or how the leading rider is "doing more work". Aren't they both doing about the same work (assuming there is not a very strong head wind) since they aren't traveling fast enough to create a "slipstream"? Is it just a psychological thing, or is there really a "drafting" impact even at the relatively slow speeds when going up steep mountains?

[shaharidan]

no real slipstream effect, but it's easier to follow when someone else sets the pace.

[superdex]

well, they are going 12-15+ mph, and there's still some slipstream there, just not as much as at 29mph... enough to be worth it; that's why the Disco team has every man in front pulling his guts out so that guy from Texas can pounce the last few K of the climb.

[rowbeartoe]

thanks for your reply, and sorry if it sounds as if I'm harping on this, but I don't fully understand...

So if it's "easier to follow," then is it only a psychological advantage to ride behind another rider when going up the mountains?

I believe I heard Lance say something like, "well, it's easier to work together instead of having me do all the work pulling them along" in reference to his efforts in stage 10 when he and three other riders finished at the top of a mountain in the Alps.

Does this imply that a follower on a steep mountain has an advantage simply because the leader "feels" as if he is having to expend greater energy? There is no real advantage, in terms of physics/drafting, at these greatly reduced speeds?

If that's the case, it seems that a leader could simply try to ignore followers, knowing that they do not actually have any physical advantage over him. In fact, the leader could reason that the followers could be at a disadvantage because they have not had the strength or stamina to increase their pace to the front.

[superdex]

Does this imply that a follower on a steep mountain has an advantage simply because the leader "feels" as if he is having to expend greater energy? There is no real advantage, in terms of physics/drafting, at these greatly reduced speeds?


There is a real advantage, as there is some drafting involved. There's a thread around here somewhere (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=114134) that talks about what speed(s) drafting is effective. (Effectively, all the time)

[rowbeartoe]

ok, thanks superdex -- I was writing my last reply and asking these questions before I saw your reply.

If there is in fact a drafting effect, just a much reduced one, then I can understand why a rider would not want to be out in front all the time.

At times on some of these mountains, spectators were briskly walking and keeping up with some of the riders, so I didn't know if they were going fast enough to produce a "draft" that could be used to a follower's advantage.

[jfmckenna]

You can also block wind up front should there be a slight head wind. I'd guess anything under 10mph barring head wind then the draft is negligible. Also having a team mate 'pull' you up the climb sets a pace for all the other opponent riders around you as well. This can be used as a tactic.