BMX - good flatland bicyce?

what do you guys think about this bike for a beginner person into flatlanding? http://www.khebikes.com/2005/bikes/05_flat1.htm

Reminds me of the singer Pink - cheap and ugly.

what do you guys think about this bike for a beginner person into flatlanding? http://www.khebikes.com/2005/bikes/05_flat1.htm


BMXTRIX would know.

It looks good to me, seeing that it has small gearing, a freecoaster, and has some 4130

If you buy a KHE I will beat you personally...

This is the first, last, and only bike that beginners should be looking at on a budget:
http://www.flatlandfuel.com/ -> store -> complete bikes -> DK Signal

If you buy a KHE I will beat you personally...

Not many places are willing to offer that kind of personalized service these days.

Would the geometry and/or parts of the Signal be acceptable for a little skate park/street riding?

Somewhat on topic even if it's a question for me :P

If you buy a KHE I will beat you personally...

This is the first, last, and only bike that beginners should be looking at on a budget:
http://www.flatlandfuel.com/ -> store -> complete bikes -> DK Signal



that bike doesn't look like a flatland bike. arent flatland bikes supposed to have larger gearing? whats wrong with KHE? can you tell me what i should look for in a flatland bike?

also, i dont think my bike shop can get DK.

arent flatland bikes supposed to have larger gearing?

The insanely ******** brake system, the proprietary headset/gyro, the fact that their frames are hideous...

The insanely ******** brake system, the proprietary headset/gyro, the fact that their frames are hideous...

yeh, i was kinda wondering on the headset thing, i've never seen anything like it before, although it does look nice.


i like the way the frame looks

That one actually isn't that bad, but that headtube would make any frame look gross.

Is there something especially janky about KHE I'm just missing here? From what little I've heard the weird internal detangler thing looks kinda odd but works fine. I'm kinda diggin' the colors, too...had it up to my neck in f*cking black, raw and brown. The KHE is also much more flatland-specific where the DK is still very much a 'missing link' somewhere between street and flat geometry (almost all 'entry-level' flatland bikes aren't flatland bikes). If you plan on riding any street at all I would avoid a purely flatland-suited frame for now, and stick with 2-pc over 8-pc bars with a little sweep since they can stand up to a little more abuse. Personally I rode a missing link for a long time, worked fine and then when I had the money and the opportunity my bike performed a sort of mitosis and two bikes grew out of it...one purely for flatland with a 19" Quamen frame and the other purely for street with the old Haro frame (now it's an S&M). After 3 years or so on a street frame, just dropping the inch or so and bringing the bike closer together made an ENORMOUS difference. I was pitching myself over the bars for weeks before I started to get my squeakers and shaky hang-5s back but it was *tight*. The bike was so much easier to move around on and to move around my body. The downside is, you can pretty much forget about riding street...flatland frames are squirrely (steeper head tube and shorter wheelbase) and just *tiny* overall.

The long and the short on the DK is it's a great bike that takes into account a little street riding now and again. If they're still shipping with the jankified Taska or whatever generic freecoaster is out there these days (the infamous Hoffman EP nightmare freecoaster), I would save my pennies and replace it with a Nankai or a Reloader at your earliest convenience. Even if it's not the one I'm thinking of, freecoasters are tempermental enough as it is without also being *cheap*.

I personally don't see anything wrong with the KHE (again, no personal experience but the specs look fine for what you're asking it to do), but it's purely a flatland bike...flatland geometry, 8-pc flatland bars (0 sweep), short reach stem and low-offset forks. It's also got a 36-hole wheelset, a luxury when you start grabbing your wheels in and repeatedly jam or rack your knuckles on closely-laced 48s. It's also over 100 bucks more than the DK, but for that I'm guessing maybe a nicer freecoaster (big plus, those things are expensive), and definitely upgraded brakes.

By itself, the color is not bad. But the frame is far from aesthetically pleasing. Even this would be excusable if the cause of the ugliness wasn't a proprietary headset/gyro combo. I would never buy it, as it's not my style, so I can only offer my biased opinion.

Um...it's a flatland frame. That's what flatland frames look like, huge gusseting or extra tubing to close up the front triangle and bring the down tube in closer (mine's actually up under the BB shell making the BB look like a big cylindrical unitesticle). The head tube angle is steeper and forks have low or in many cases zero offset, bringing the front tire WAY in close and requiring the need for even more frame clearance to allow you to scuff under it. The only thing I kinda prefer in a flat frame the KHE doesn't have is a more compact rear triangle with seat stays ending just under the top tube.

I guess I'll never own a proper flatland frame then. It's the head tube that looks like a Starbuck's travel mug that I don't like though.

From what little I've heard the weird internal detangler thing looks kinda odd but works fine.

Yeah, but have you thought about what would happen if you snapped a cable? You have to take apart the whole front end of the bike just to replace one.

If KHE would offer their bikes without that headset it would be a different story, but those headsets completely kill the entire deal. I have spoken with more than a dozen riders who have owned KHE bikes and every single one (every one!) has had issues with the headset and for those who have run rear brakes the detangler is nothing but a nightmare to work on with brake cables breaking frequently and taking far to long to change.

Are you going to walk into a bike shop and say "I need a 2.5" headset please." and actually expect a response other than "Huh?".

The Signal gives people chrome plated rims which provide superior braking.
A basic DK freecoaster which I haven't heard major complaints about.
Straightforward decent frame geometry and design - no crazy non-standard stuff
Good aluminum pegs x 4
Nice tight small gearing

Really, it is an overall design winner for the entry level rider and since the frame is steel you can just go ride some light street with no problem - just avoid grinds with those aluminum pegs (get cheap steel ones if you want).

Heck, I ride some light street on my Ares Choise frame which is aluminum with no problems. Did on my Show too... before it cracked in 5 places in one day.

KHE just doesn't give you the same stuff that DK does, with chrome plated rims being the single biggest thing. Look at almost any pro rider out there who is running brakes... chrome rims are an absolute requirement. In flatland even moreso.

The better items (perhaps) on the KHE would be the stem and bars.

The better parts on the Signal: Frame and rims

Much easier to upgrade stem and bars than get a new frame and new wheelset.

Are you going to walk into a bike shop and say "I need a 2.5" headset please." and actually expect a response other than "Huh?".

Exactly. I have a Cannondale 1.5 Headshok frame. It was easier to buy a Cane Creek headset that converted it to 1 1/8" than try to get parts.

If KHE would offer their bikes without that headset it would be a different story, but those headsets completely kill the entire deal. I have spoken with more than a dozen riders who have owned KHE bikes and every single one (every one!) has had issues with the headset and for those who have run rear brakes the detangler is nothing but a nightmare to work on with brake cables breaking frequently and taking far to long to change.

Are you going to walk into a bike shop and say "I need a 2.5" headset please." and actually expect a response other than "Huh?".

The Signal gives people chrome plated rims which provide superior braking.
A basic DK freecoaster which I haven't heard major complaints about.
Straightforward decent frame geometry and design - no crazy non-standard stuff
Good aluminum pegs x 4
Nice tight small gearing

Really, it is an overall design winner for the entry level rider and since the frame is steel you can just go ride some light street with no problem - just avoid grinds with those aluminum pegs (get cheap steel ones if you want).

Heck, I ride some light street on my Ares Choise frame which is aluminum with no problems. Did on my Show too... before it cracked in 5 places in one day.

KHE just doesn't give you the same stuff that DK does, with chrome plated rims being the single biggest thing. Look at almost any pro rider out there who is running brakes... chrome rims are an absolute requirement. In flatland even moreso.

The better items (perhaps) on the KHE would be the stem and bars.

The better parts on the Signal: Frame and rims

Much easier to upgrade stem and bars than get a new frame and new wheelset.

So the integrated headset/detangler is garbage. That's much easier to respect than "this bike looks like ass and this one doesn't." We move on from there. To KHE's credit I *was* able to find plenty of documentation, technical reference and detailed exploded views when I first started hearing about these things like a year ago, and parts were easy to come by, they're just not stocked in-house. I didn't really *care* at the time 'cause we'd get all of maybe 2 vaguely flatland-related questions a year in that shop and we sure as hell didn't see any reason to dig too deep into it when we got a display case full of G3s and GTX-Rs in the store and not a KHE frame in sight. :)

For the beginning flatlander I'd lean towards the hybrid style street/flat geometry myself for the versatility (that's the way I did it myself), never really argued that point. And while you're not LOCKING yourself into riding strictly flat with 18.75" worth of top tube, 76 degree head angle and 13.2" rear, it's certainly tricky keeping the bike under control in the air or on a sketchy landing. When my bikes split in two I was without a street bike for a couple months and rode the Quamen exclusively, street, flat, park, vert. It can be done, but I was happy when I was back on a longer bike and not so afraid I was gonna dive over the bars every time I dropped back in.

I'll be the first to say it looks a little weird, too...here's what 6'1" on a 19" flatland bike (steel half-knurled pegs, of course) looks like grinding backwards atop a 6' mini at Rhoades. You be the judge. :rolleyes:



EDIT: If my feet look close together it's 'cause they are. 165mm on the arms, yessir. =)

Nice fedora. Or whatever that hat you have on is.

Dr. Jones?

Nice fedora. Or whatever that hat you have on is.

It's actually a big burly outback style hat from REI. I highly recommend a hat like that for anyone whose hobbies include going on epic adventures. You need a hat for that kind of stuff and not just any hat will do. You need a proper adventure hat.

Outback style? Ha! Drive over with with a truck a few times, and it's a proper Aussie hat. Enough abuse though. I've got a proper Akubra - the Aussie Stetson. They're not just cowboy hats - they come in all styles. The Tilley is a better adventure hat though. Google them. They're the best, no question. Which leads me to my question. Why do you need an adventure hat when riding indoors?

Oh, this hat's seen its fair share of adventuring (and rough trips through the washing machine and dryer). I'm familiar with Akubra, I know what they are, I know my hat's not an Akubra but I know it's not a cheap nylon pretender, either.

Rhoades isn't indoors, it's under two adjacent overpasses. The one and only indoor park less than 6 hours away from Boise (Lucky 13 or something) shut down when all the free city parks opened up and the revenue dried up. Which was sorta lame 'cause before I moved to CA it meant I'd get two short seasons to ride before it's either raining / snowing or too damn hot to move, let alone ride.

I highly recommend a hat like that for anyone whose hobbies include going on epic adventures. You need a hat for that kind of stuff and not just any hat will do. You need a proper adventure hat.

So basically you need a fedora.

It's actually a big burly outback style hat from REI. I highly recommend a hat like that for anyone whose hobbies include going on epic adventures. You need a hat for that kind of stuff and not just any hat will do. You need a proper adventure hat.


this was a joke post correct???

my bike shop is an authorized dealer of this bike so its more convienant for me to get it, and i can get it for only $270 im not sure if my shop is a dealer of dk, so i might not be able to get a signal as cheap, or as easy. if i dont like it, or it doesnt fit me, i can just sell it to my shop and break even.

my bike shop is an authorized dealer of this bike so its more convienant for me to get it, and i can get it for only $270 im not sure if my shop is a dealer of dk, so i might not be able to get a signal as cheap, or as easy. if i dont like it, or it doesnt fit me, i can just sell it to my shop and break even.

Yeah, but will they do that if the bike's used, or something goes wrong with the detangler a month or two down the road and you decide, "Screw this, I don't want to deal with it"? Spend some time flipping through the SBS and BTI catalogs, you'd be surprised what all they carry. I know BTI has a dedicated BMX department and they carry a lot more stuff than they list in the catalog. I don't remember offhand whether they carry DK, but figure out what lines are available to you and go from there.

monday i was gonna go find ut if we can carry dk or not.

Tip Plus carries WeThePeople, which also produces a couple complete flatland bikes. Well out of 'beginner' price range if you're paying retail but EP might not be so bad. There's the Sinus and there was a cheaper one in our Tip Plus catalog but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called now and WTP isn't showing it on their site so it may be either new or discontinued.

SBS stocks mostly Redline and BTI doesn't sell completes, far as I could tell just flipping through the catalogs when I had a spare minute today, so those are out, but check who your dealers are and what all they sell. The way that KHE frame design sorta revolves around the detangler (get it? Pun!) it's probably worth it to pass and just throw down for a DK through FlatlandFuel if your shop can't get anything else.

i was seriously thinking about that dk signal. i've heard no bad things about it, or dk in general. i think i will get it if my shop can get them. i have no way of getting it from flatlandfuel.com if they don't. thats why that khe was looking nice to me.

What about the new WeThePeople Sinus. That looks good.

do flatland bikes even really need 3pc cranks?

i mean is there that much pressure and ussage of the cranks....?



i read good reviews on the DK Signal...

tomorrow i get the KHE. we don't carry DK. so i learned one trick in 2 days. i learned toe fork wheelie. but, all i really do is just ride on the bike backwards, no wheelies yet. any help?

Why can't you order from Flatland Fuel? Or did I miss that post?

Flatlanders do bend 1-piece cranks and eventually bottom brackets wear out and cause headaches. Once I switched to 3-piece cranks I basically never had to mess around with my cranks again. Much easier.

i dont have a credit card, so i have no way of ordering from flatlandfuel.com i'm going to get a bank account tomorrow, though.

That's not a really good reason not to order from them... Give Pat a call, ask about sending a cashiers check or money order to him. Or even a personal check which he will wait to clear. PayPal and other methods work directly from your bank account as well which is a good way of doing things.

Parents & friends who have credit cards work also. As long as you have the cash to give them.

I would call it a huge mistake to buy a KHE over the Signal. The KHE simply lacks the design quality and the focus on the most important parts of an entry level flatland bike that DK was sure to focus on.

Your money - but Pat will hook you up and let you know how to take care of paying for the bike. The extra week you wait makes WAY more sense then dealing with an inferior product that took you months to save up for.

well, i bought the khe. it only cost me 290, and retail is what, 500 or so dollars? and it only took me a week to save up for it. i love it. before i got it i was trying fork wheelies on my *** mongoose, i couldn't get them. now i have them within reach. i just need to learn to stop, because i always end up going too far when i spin and i end up falling. how do you stop yourself from spinning?

well, i bought the khe. it only cost me 290, and retail is what, 500 or so dollars? and it only took me a week to save up for it. i love it. before i got it i was trying fork wheelies on my *** mongoose, i couldn't get them. now i have them within reach. i just need to learn to stop, because i always end up going too far when i spin and i end up falling. how do you stop yourself from spinning?

Bike follows hips, hips follow shoulders, shoulders follow head.

SickChild or Quamen

Kyle, that was a classic example of making a suggestion after the product has been purchased. Maybe, next time, you should read the whole thread prior to posting to prevent this error from occuring again. Thanks.

Kyle, that was a classic example of making a suggestion after the product has been purchased. Maybe, next time, you should read the whole thread prior to posting to prevent this error from occuring again. Thanks.
Sorry, was just making a suggestion. I didn't figure a purchase was made, eh assumptions get me in trouble so much >_>

Always remember: "to assume makes an ass out of you and me."

Always remember: "to assume makes an ass out of you and me."

"When you make an assumption you're just making an ass outta you and umption."

sop far, the bike has been treating me pretty good. i learned barspins, and i can bunny hop better/easier. i figure by tomorrow i will be able to get the spinning and landing on the fork wihtuot overspinning part of the fork wheelie down pat. i guess the only good way to learn these things is practice.

Sorry, was just making a suggestion. I didn't figure a purchase was made, eh assumptions get me in trouble so much >_>

Was it this line that threw you off? :D



well, i bought the khe.

Was it this line that threw you off? :D
:D :D

No, I think it was the request for entry level flatland bikes, so he suggests a couple of $300.00 flatland frames.

Quamen doesn't make bikes as far as I know - nor does Sick Child... and current designs from other companies for frames are easily as good - or better.

Quamen makes bikes, well frames.. dunno bout completes, I just can't find thier website. Sick Child, is here though http://www.sickchildbikes.com/ and yeah I mentioned frames.. I was just posting a quick reply.. didn't pay no atention. bah

Quamen makes bikes, well frames.. dunno bout completes, I just can't find thier website. Sick Child, is here though http://www.sickchildbikes.com/ and yeah I mentioned frames.. I was just posting a quick reply.. didn't pay no atention. bah

Quamen/CamAcura/Nankai doesn't make completes. The three brands are what remains of Japanese company Dig It that used to make the ultra-popular Graveyard OG bars - now sadly discontinued, but Quamen makes some really bomber flatland bars of their own. Sick Child is one of the last remaining American frame and fork makers still very much devoted to flatland (instead of most American companies with one half-assed flatland or hybrid street/flat frame in addition to a full line of street and dirt frames), but they don't sell completes. Ares does sell completes, and some pretty nice ones...mostly equipped with parts by 88 Products (same company). Some companies produce complete flatland bikes that aren't available in the US, only in Japan where it's a lot more popular. Fly is sort of an exception, being a primarily street/park driven company but still putting time and effort into developing respectable flatland frames which are also available as completes.

If anyone can read Japanese, Dig It is still around but I'm not sure exactly what their function and relation to the splintered brands is anymore.